I disagree, I think the OL, running game, and defense are all passable or good enough to help protect a rookie QB. The WR room sucks but with a couple marginal upgrades there I think you could put a rookie QB into a similar situation as Mac in 2021.
Who do YOU want Pats to end up with in draft?
- Thread starter DJnVa
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I saw a lot more than you [edited to insert this sounds snarkier than I intended]. He nearly gave the game away with that last fumble, complete unforced error on the same level as recent terrible decisions by Mac that have led folks to declare him unplayable.
I’ve seen more than enough from him to say with some confidence he is not a top 15 QB of the future on any team
Has the collapse of the 2021 QBs caused pre-draft quarterback evaluations to evolve in a significant way? Ahead of 21's draft it seemed like the consensus was that class would produce 4-5 quality starters if not stars, maybe I'm skittish but it has me wondering what lessons were (or weren't) learned.
The OTs are not nearly enough. I'm honestly pretty down on Sow and Mafi as well.
Sure, Onmenu is fine if he's your second best tackle. But is "fine" what you want with a young QB? And is fine ok, when the guy to his immediate left is not performing? And sure, Trent is fine when he's fine, but he often isn't.
I'd say that they need a legit LT at least and that this OL would kill most young QBs.
I agree they need T help. I just don’t think that plugging Caleb into the 2024 Pats would be anywhere close to the level of disaster of the 2023 Panthers.
It's possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. We have a few reliable pieces on the OL. Rounding out the line and adding decent depth (not the stiffs that Bill added this past offseason) is possible with the money we have available.
Who do you consider to be today's top QBs? Mahomes, Allen, Stroud, Lawrence, Herbert, Burrow, Tua were all top 10 picks and the vast majority were top 5. Hurts and Dak are probably the only non 1st-rounders I would consider among today's top QBs. I suppose Lamar counts as a non "top-end" pick because he was end of the 1st round. But still, that's definitely not "most."
You are far more likely to find the next Desmond Ridder in the 2nd round than the next Jalen Hurts. The risk of passing on the next Herbert or Stroud is too great to not pick a QB. This is the worst Patriots roster that many of us have ever seen and potentially their worst offense ever assembled. They have been starting a QB who plays like he has more psychological damage then a Guantanamo detainee and their two most important defensive players have been out for the season since week 4. Despite all of this, if Mac doesn't throw the worst interception of all time on a would've been wide-open TD and Ryland doesn't miss a chip-shot 35 yarder in back-to-back weeks, they are 4-7 and picking at number 10 or 11 overall.
Not picking a QB in this draft would be an absolute disaster. They may not have a chance to pick this high again for another decade even if they suck for the entire decade.
Yeah improvement at QB alone would be great. But whenever someone writes that a legit QB would have us challenging for a playoff spot right now, I die a little inside. Is Brock Purdy worth 3-4 wins over 11 games? This team is bereft of talent on the offensive side of the ball, starting with, but not limited to QB.
Agreed on the processing...it seems like it's tough for him to do anything other than throw to his first read, and his intermediate accuracy isn't very good.
However, that offensive coaching staff is so bad it's incredible. Fields's two best assets are his deep ball and his legs...yet two years in a row they've spent the offseason and beginning of the season trying to make him stay in the pocket and not calling for deep balls. It's mind boggling.
I would guess that Fields is gone but I wouldn't be shocked if he was back. I would be SHOCKED if they ran it back with Luke Getsy as OC again
The OL is one of the worst pass protecting units in football, they'll get a rookie QB killed next year without major upgrades.
They have a ton of money and other draft picks, too. I want the QB - IF - the Pats think the QB can play. Not just for the sake of taking one.
I'm with you, though I do think they need to draft a QB with their first pick (no way Daniels makes it out of the top ten), I just hope they can upgrade both tackles through some combination of the draft and FA.
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I am not sure about this. Fields has been set up to fail his entire career.
The Patriots this year with Fields would be a significantly better team. Fields has an elite skill set at running. And he's got a great arm. You can work around that. There is talent there.
Mac has an elite skill set at punching people in the nuts. And that is it.
At least on what we were sold, they were sold as opposites.
Fields, great legs and arms, unclear on decision making / processing.
Mac, not a real threat with legs and arms, advanced processing / decision making.
today they both seem incapable of good / quick decision making, neither is throwing the ball downfield much at all, though Fields still impressed with his legs.
I do question why you conclude that Fields has failed due to coaching and Mac has failed because he sucks. There were a number of people who felt Mac was being failed by his coaching that have now changed their mind and believe he is just plain bad, I personally think we will find the same out from Fields if (when) his coaching changes.
He just led a team for a full game and failed to score a touchdown while he was given four turnovers / additional possessions by his defense. That is really, really hard to do.
Because Mac sucks and Fields has traits that are elite.
I'm not saying Fields is a lock. I'm saying he has skills that can translate to success. It is in the range of outcomes. Mac's good at nut jabs and crying.
This exactly. Get the QB, but also draft/sign a starting OT and a developmental one. I still cannot fathom how we drafted zero OTs last year with all of those picks.
This could not be more true. We don't know what would have happened for that poor kid had he been drafted almost anywhere else. Even here, with three different OCs in three years and a bad OL, at least he wouldn't have been in that offensive suckhole in Chicago.
edit: to be clear, I love Chicago the city. But it's where offensive talent goes to die. The whole organization is built around linebackers and special teams.
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You wouldn't trade Mac to them? Say, Mac and a 6th for Fields and a 7th? Both teams take cap hits on the 4th year salary ($5M for the Pats, $6M for Fields), and presumably neither guarantees the 5th year, and then they try out the other guy.
Honestly, I'd never do this were I the Bears, for the tools Fields brings to the table, but if offered?
The team has Bailey Zappe and Mac Jones at QB.
You have a chance at Fields, you get him, if the cost isn't crazy.
I wouldn't and I kinda like Fields. This team should be drafting a QB at the top of the draft and pairing him with a solid vet who knows he's a placeholder at best, pure backup at worst. Jacoby, Tyrod, Minshew, someone like that. Fields should be going to a team without a real shot at a top draftee who needs an upgrade (ATL, PIT?, Vegas?, CLE?) I mean sure if the cost was like a 6th, but it won't be, at that cost CHI is better off just keeping him for a year while they work in the new QB.
I agree.
I'm just saying if the draft doesn't work out for the Pats, going for Fields wouldn't be something I would object to.
Fields has a very good arm and is very good at throwing the deep ball (especially sideline shots).
Fields has a lot more arm talent and athleticism than Mac. The coaching negligence is more obvious with Fields because they are trying to force him into something he's not (a pocket, "West Coast" QB).
It's the equivalent of the Patriots trying to force Mac to play in a system designed for Lamar Jackson.
As of now, Fields is still capable of great plays or greatness within a game. I don't think Mac is capable enough to do anything great right now
Top 5 seems an absolute lock and I have a feeling Penix and Daniels will be fast risers in the offseason. If you have them as top 10-ish guys and you're at #5 you still gotta take one I think., even with maybe a slight tradeback if someone wants one of the OL.
It might be just me wanting the shiny object but if we don't come out of this draft with MHJ or one of the 4 QBs I'll be chapped.
like I said, if he is cut, and it is a free agent, sure. But I would not trade anything for him.
be prepared for an offensive tackle, some linebackers, and lots of defensive backs.
You wouldn't trade a 6th for Fields and a 7th after watching Mac and Bailey these last two seasons?
Ok.
I mean, I want them to draft a quarterback. Absolutely must move on from their current quarterback room. But I have not really seen much in Fields that tells me he’s going to be a worthwhile NFL quarterback. That he might be better than Mac, yeah, great. But not good enough to get this team anywhere. So I don’t mind taking a chance on him, if you’re just spending a little money. Maybe I would swap draft picks like you suggest, but I really would not give up anything remotely of substance for him.
You know what? I’m gonna reconsider my stance on Fields. He’s obviously a crazy good athlete with a good arm. And in the cesspool that is Chicago, he’s improved his passing every year. It would be an interesting move actually.
Fields has some potential. And he is a truly elite runner.
He's got issues, too, but at least one of his skill sets is elite. And he does have a good arm. Protecting the ball and decision making is where he needs to improve.
Lots of guys with an elite skill have sucked as NFL QBs. But what I like with Fields is that he’s shown improvement as a passer. At least that’s what the stats show. Of course I don’t watch him like I watch Mac, so maybe watching his every move would drive us just as crazy.
But I’m seeing potential with him for sure.
And I wanted Fields over Mac in 2021, but I thought the Pats would have to spend a lot of draft capital to move up to get Fields and I didn’t want to do that. It would be crazy to do what you suggest (6/7 round swaps) and essentially trade out Mac for Fields.
Mac has declined all three years while Fields has improved. But Fields still hasn’t shown he can be a good QB in the NFL yet, and Chicago has a big time decision to make. Because they’re gonna get a chance at Williams or Maye.
Did you miss a word there? Because it would NOT be crazy, in my opinion. But the Bears wouldn't take that deal, obviously.
You are quite mistaken, my good sir. Mac is only good at getting his own balls picked.
I've seen some prognosticators suggest this draft will rival the famed 83 class and have 6+ QBs drafted in the 1st rd. Mostly because there are many QB needy teams as opposed to there being 6 QBs with a first round grade. Teams that will strongly consider QB in 1st include: CHI/NE/NYG/LAS/TB/MN/ATL/LAR with AZ/TN/SEA also potential players though probably not in 1st.
If NE passes on QB with their 1st pick the pickings may be slim by their next.
If NE passes on QB with their 1st pick the pickings may be slim by their next.
Interestingly Brugler and Tice did their first mock pod, and they both have only 3 QBs, instead they have this as the year of the OT... 8-9 each (and not the same 9) in the 1st.
Receivers matter. The Bears brought in DJ Moore this offseason.
These are his stats in the 8 games with Fields this season: 50 catches on 62 targets for 792 yards and 6tds. Cole Kmet has been pretty darn good this season too.
Their offense when Fields has played hasn't been terrible. Their biggest issue is the defense has given up an average of 29.6 points in those games, and it's pretty linearly bad (38, 27, 41, 31, 20, 19, 31, 10 points given up).
I think it's fair to say Fields would be better than Mac in this current Pats offense, but that bar is really, really low. But I also think in this Pats offense, without a downfield threat like Moore, his passing wouldn't be improving numbers-wise like it did this season (which is still pretty middle/bottom of the pack in terms of starting QB's). Fields has also averaged more than 1 fumble per start over the course of his 3 years now.
That's a different, and valid poll. This poll was my wondering who SoSH liked among the rumored top 3.
I was about to question the improvement line thinking it was largely Completion % based because know he's throwing a lot of screens and checkdowns. But most of his stats have improved over his time in the league. Still not great, but I can see how someone could squint and think with the right coaching he could become a much better passer.
What’s so crazy about that first round ‘83 class is as much as we hear about it those QB’s won a total of two Super Bowls, both by Elway, both in the last two seasons of his career.
Despite the hype, between all of them there was almost 70 years’ worth of NFL careers. Two championships. Both by the same guy, right at the end. Wild. It’s so hard to win in the NFL.
While Fields' passing stats have improved, they're still not good, and he's maybe the worst quarterback in the league at avoiding sacks. He takes sacks on more than 10% of his dropbacks, which is awful. He probably / likely gives away all the value he creates in rushing by taking all those sacks. So while I understand taking a flyer on Fields, I would not be interested in a) picking up his fifth year option or b) giving away anything that would lock me into starting him / dissuade me from finding a better option. He stinks, he is just differently-shaped stink.
Fields is 21st in the league in ANY/A this year, which counts only passing and penalizes QBs for sacks taken. By QBR and EPA/Play which account for rushing he's, funnily enough, lower ranked, at 23rd.