Unless Dad has a plan for him, I would think he does.If it’s Mayo, I’d be fascinated to see if he keeps Steve as DC.
Has to be Mayo: Kraft can't burn down Brady then Bill then crush the heir apparent?
Unless Dad has a plan for him, I would think he does.If it’s Mayo, I’d be fascinated to see if he keeps Steve as DC.
You really didn’t know what he meant? New people from outside the organization, preferably with offensive side of the ball backgrounds.How much more "ground up" does it get than hiring a guy that has never done it before?
Yeah if Mayo doesn't get the HC job he's 100% gone, plenty of teams would make him offers as DC maybe even HC.And the biggest problem in that mess was easily identifiable. As were the surrounding ones. And they have the #3 pick in the draft. If the offense doesn't improve in a big way, the villagers will riot.
And I wonder if Bill's taking a big part of the core on the other side of the ball with him, which could lead to a mess of its own.
Thanks! Part of what I see as a problem is that Mayo has been a good soldier, and a token interview with Kraft resulting in Vrabel getting the job is not going to appease Mayo. Does Kraft want the optics of letting go of the GOAT and then shivving a member of the family who has been so loyal? With all the Flores stuff going on in the background (his case against the NFL, not talk of coming to NE)?
Make no mistake, the media, and rightfully so, will grab onto that like a starving pit bull.
Your logic checks out for sure, but man is it fraught with land mines.
John Schneider is EVP & GM, but Pete was also EVP of Football Operations as well as head coach and had final say in everything football.I think a bigger question than who is the next coach is whether the next coach is also the top decision-maker in the football operation or not, as BB was throughout his time here and as Pete Carroll for example was not. It's easier to go with Mayo as coach if someone else is the ultimate decider - hard to see that going to someone who has not even had a coordinator title.
I do. I was being facetious.You really didn’t know what he meant? New people from outside the organization, preferably with offensive side of the ball backgrounds.
That and Carroll as GM are the long odds propositions but this was a fan-grief driven exercise in composing a Patriot Way tribute band. It's a highly unworkable framework but it momentarily eased the sting of this chapter's thudding close.Zero chance Vrabel takes a DC job IMO.
And you make good points which I did not consider when I immediately said “Vrabel”. Passing over Mayo would definitely have poor optics. I can see them going either way. I think at the end of the day Kraft will want the most proven guy that can bring the team back to relevancy as quickly as possible. Will Kraft be willing to be patient as Mayo gets his feet wet?And the biggest problem in that mess was easily identifiable. As were the surrounding ones. And they have the #3 pick in the draft. If the offense doesn't improve in a big way, the villagers will riot.
And I wonder if Bill's taking a big part of the core on the other side of the ball with him, which could lead to a mess of its own.
Thanks! Part of what I see as a problem is that Mayo has been a good soldier, and a token interview with Kraft resulting in Vrabel getting the job is not going to appease Mayo. Does Kraft want the optics of letting go of the GOAT and then shivving a member of the family who has been so loyal? With all the Flores stuff going on in the background (his case against the NFL, not talk of coming to NE)?
Make no mistake, the media, and rightfully so, will grab onto that like a starving pit bull.
Your logic checks out for sure, but man is it fraught with land mines.
Sorry. Tough day. Sarcasm meter not operating at max level.I do. I was being facetious.
Why? It's not obvious to me that a GM helping to choose a coach is a better plan than a coach helping to choose a GM. The important thing to me is they see the game with the same eyes.Retro-fitting a GM to the coach you’ve already hired, or know you are going to hire, feels like bad business for this organization, at this time. They really need to hire the GM, and let that person hire the HC. I think anything else sets up all kinds of potential conflicts and trouble.
No worries whatsoever.Sorry. Tough day. Sarcasm meter not operating at max level.
Good point. Intuitively, maybe even logically, we all assume that the hiring should be based on a top-down hierarchy. But its likely that the GM-NFL coach dynamic is a bit different.Why? It's not obvious to me that a GM helping to choose a coach is a better plan than a coach helping to choose a GM. The important thing to me is they see the game with the same eyes.
This is nice writingSeriously... shit-canning the Godfather so a bunch of bruised fruit from his coaching tree takes over seems like the fast track to spinning their wheels in the mud of mediocrity.
You definitely see this during NFL drafts, where the coach is front and center in many draft rooms, whereas sometimes they seem to be at the kiddie table or not even really visible in the other sports — with some notable exceptions.Good point. Intuitively, maybe even logically, we all assume that the hiring should be based on a top-down hierarchy. But its likely that the GM-NFL coach dynamic is a bit different.
In baseball & hockey, the GM oversees an organization that goes beyond the major league team. As such, maybe those GMs are more tone-setters (recall "the Oriole way'; or Billy Beane's then-novel approaches). But in the NFL, it seems that the Head Coach is more of the tone-setter (or at least as much) as the GM, especially in terms of style of play and personal personnel attributes. I'm not sure where that balance ends up, but I dont think the "better get a GM first" ideal is quite as hard-and-fast in the NFL.
I mean, he certainly can. If Vrabel was not available this is a much easier decision. But Vrabel is also part of the family (albeit not the coaching tree). I have no idea if Mayo and Vrabel (and Steve Belichick) could coexist, but that's a great start to a staff.Unless Dad has a plan for him, I would think he does.
Has to be Mayo: Kraft can't burn down Brady then Bill then crush the heir apparent?
I agree that it being a collaborative/shared vision of the teams the ultimate goal. I just think it's probably easier and more likely to achieve that by hiring the GM/head of football operations first, and then letting that person find their kindred spirit to be HC. Not so much about hierarchy, as about a clear separation of responsibilities, and a clear shared vision.Why? It's not obvious to me that a GM helping to choose a coach is a better plan than a coach helping to choose a GM. The important thing to me is they see the game with the same eyes.
Which, IMO, makes Mayo the superior candidate. Bill the coach was ten times better than Bill the GM. If he couldn't pull off both, I have no reason to assume Vrabel would be better at it.If it's Mayo, it's going to be with the caveat that a GM will be taking over. If it's Vrabel, I can see a GM-type coming in but with Vrabel in full control of the operation.
Why would Steve stick around? Wouldn’t he go wherever Bill goes?I mean, he certainly can. If Vrabel was not available this is a much easier decision. But Vrabel is also part of the family (albeit not the coaching tree). I have no idea if Mayo and Vrabel (and Steve Belichick) could coexist, but that's a great start to a staff.
I couldn't agree more. If there's one thing I'd really like to see it's a more reasonable distribution of power.Which, IMO, makes Mayo the superior candidate. Bill the coach was ten times better than Bill the GM. If he couldn't pull off both, I have no reason to assume Vrabel would be better at it.
Totally agree actually that on paper it makes most sense for Vrabel as HC over Mayo and BoB or Josh as DC and OC.I mean, he certainly can. If Vrabel was not available this is a much easier decision. But Vrabel is also part of the family (albeit not the coaching tree). I have no idea if Mayo and Vrabel (and Steve Belichick) could coexist, but that's a great start to a staff.
Hypothetically he might want to show that he can thrive without his dad, most of the top legacy kids had to get jobs on other staffs at some point (Shanahan, Ryan, etc.)Why would Steve stick around? Wouldn’t he go wherever Bill goes?
There should be a healthy tension between personnel and coaches (this guy can play! vs this doesn’t fit!). It’s similar to sales and marketing, where you work hand in glove but there is a clear handoff and pushback from both sides (this was a shit lead! vs. you didn’t manage the account correctly!)Sorry for the mini-side track, but I just remembered how I first became familiar with Vrabel. It was a 7-6 playoff loss to the Steelers, and Vrabel was a rookie. His strip sack of Bledsoe sealed the deal, and obviously opened BB's eyes.
What a long, strange trip its been....
I couldn't agree more. If there's one thing I'd really like to see it's a more reasonable distribution of power.
He's also got a Defence here which did pretty well most of this season despite the Ws/Ls and could/should be even better next year, injuries permitting. No guarantees the next place Bill goes will be that set up on his side of the ball.Hypothetically he might want to show that he can thrive without his dad, most of the top legacy kids had to get jobs on other staffs at some point (Shanahan, Ryan, etc.)
IIRC, didnt the Seahawks hire Carroll first, then create a list of GM candidates and Carroll signed off on Schneider?John Schneider is EVP & GM, but Pete was also EVP of Football Operations as well as head coach and had final say in everything football.
He said it on Boston Sports tonight last night (Felger/Holley NBCSB show), I don't think I added that to what I saw in the locked BB thread, but it was part of his doubling down that BB was gone, so he seems to be pretty dialed in here. I knew with Curran's delivery that it was over. Then I went into denial and to sleep.Apparently Tom Curran just said that Jerod Mayo will be the successor. I can't find Curran's own words (just seeing it in various Twitter aggregators) so maybe he said this on TV or something.
I think you’ve said it, no one thinks that they’re going to be upgrade over Bill the coach.That being said, how is either of those guys a clear upgrade for Bill as coach? It just does not compute. This leads me back to the point of well if you are doing this who is going to run football ops and who will be picking the coach? Right now it seems like the owner wants to hire his own preferred coach and his own preferred GM. Will that even come close to working? I cannot believe after all this time Kraft (or his son) appears to be back to controlling the groceries.
Kind of--I mean, you can't argue with the results, but if I had the time and interest, I'd do some comparisons of the BB/Pioli era and the just BB era (acknowledging the difference in sample size) to see how much of it was his personnel management and how much of it was having a generational talent under center combined with BB's in-game skills.EDIT: I will say that BB kinda did pull [Coach/GM] off for quite a while, though.... But I think that's not replicable.
The only thing that Curran has said recently in which I hope he is right. I don't believe that Mayo brings in any "Belichick baggage", especially as it's highly unlikely Mayo is the one running the draft and signing free agents. I also don't get the "defensive minded coach" argument; a good head coach can delegate that aspect to the offensive coordinator.Apparently Tom Curran just said that Jerod Mayo will be the successor. I can't find Curran's own words (just seeing it in various Twitter aggregators) so maybe he said this on TV or something.
The last time Kraft picked a GM it was freaking Bobby Grier.I think you’ve said it, no one thinks that they’re going to be upgrade over Bill the coach.
In my case, I do think either of them will produce a better outcome overall because they are both very strong coaches (imho, this is debated vigorously elsewhere) but unlike Bill they’ll be willing to work collectively and collaboratively with other pros.
The math for me: Coach and Staff developer Mayo/Vrabel + GM X (trust the process) > Coach and Staff developer Bill + GM Bill.
I’m glad I’m not alone. This team needs a new direction, not less successful versions of the coach that is leaving.Vrabel, Mayo, Flores...all BB-lite. If the offense is the reason BB is gone, I don't understand the interest in any of them.
For those that hate some of Belichick's recent drafts (understandable, to be fair), take a look at 1997-98.The last time Kraft picked a GM it was freaking Bobby Grier.
I think it is likely Josh ends up whereever Bill goes. He will be paid handsomely and I think Bill knows it will be extremely helpful for his revenge tour.I think my ideal coach situation is either:
1. Go outside for one of the young offense names.
2. Mayo with an outside OC (Kubiak, Robinson)
3. Mayo with a retread Pats OC (O'Brien, Josh)
That would be a great reason not to hire MayoUnless Dad has a plan for him, I would think he does.
Has to be Mayo: Kraft can't burn down Brady then Bill then crush the heir apparent?
Mayo is less successful? By all accounts he is extremely thought of and just because he played for and coached for BB doesn't mean he is BB. As others have said, it will be key to find a strong OC and it is likely Mayo would likely give that individual the keys to the offense. I believe (as I have said) it will be important to give Football ops power to a strong, competent president (not just GM) who will be able to resist the inevidable meddling from ownership.I’m glad I’m not alone. This team needs a new direction, not less successful versions of the coach that is leaving.
Yep because on the flip side, Reid is an offensive minded coach and KC’s defense is terrific. He just basically leaves it to his defensive coaches.The only thing that Curran has said recently in which I hope he is right. I don't believe that Mayo brings in any "Belichick baggage", especially as it's highly unlikely Mayo is the one running the draft and signing free agents. I also don't get the "defensive minded coach" argument; a good head coach can delegate that aspect to the offensive coordinator.
Yeah, I really just added that caveat to make it unnecessary for someone else to. He certainly didn't have the Godfather role during the first leg of the dynasty.Kind of--I mean, you can't argue with the results, but if I had the time and interest, I'd do some comparisons of the BB/Pioli era and the just BB era (acknowledging the difference in sample size) to see how much of it was his personnel management and how much of it was having a generational talent under center combined with BB's in-game skills.
I remember reading way back that he was addicted to watching film when he was a player and had a reputation for living and breathing football.Mayo feels like more of a swing for the fences pick than Vrabel to me. I didn't like the idea of firing Bill and staying in house, but I can at least see an argument that Mayo is a blank slate and deserves a shot. So count me as team Mayo over Mike.