All things considered, Horford is easily the 5th best player on the team. In a vacuum, it still might be Horford but I think it's much more debatable, with possibly DS taking Horford over.
16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity
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If Danny Ainge was still here I'd bet on standing pat or doing something very minor.
With Brad here, who has shown himself a lot more willing to deal, I still think they are doing to nothing or something very minor but I have less confidence in that assessment.
With Brad here, who has shown himself a lot more willing to deal, I still think they are doing to nothing or something very minor but I have less confidence in that assessment.
Horford might be the 5th best player, overall, but I believe in most situations - it seems like Ime doesn't think having him as the 5th player on the floor is the best lineup. The other challenge is that I certainly hope we don't see Horford trying to play 40+ minutes in the playoffs.
In my opinion, upgrading from Horford to a better PF who can play 40 minutes+ and space the floor, or upgrading with a PG who is switchable and can also space the floor with some outside shooting (with Tatum taking the 4) would be a much better playoff team.
I would have really liked to see what that 2020 team could have done in the playoffs with a healthy Hayward. Would have been very fun to watch.
+1 good post. There are 2, maybe even 3 seasons.
Ultimately you'd like to use the first half of the regular season to develop younger players to combine/deal at the trade deadline.
#2 Then use post-All Star break to fine-tune rotations.
#3 shorten rotations for the playoffs.
Also, roster spots 10-15 should have some matchup depth (ie Kanter can add value in very short, specific situations)
I don't agree - I think Ime has the guts to go with whatever lineup he thinks is best to start a game
I can agree with this, but consideration needs to be given to the fact that Horford buys into his role and the Celtics organization as a whole
Same here.
Yes, this.
I love Grant, but he's in the "if you can upgrade, do it" category with pretty much everyone else.
I like Al as much as the next guy. BUT as soon as more money was flashed in front of him, he took it (& that's perfectly fine) from the Celtics nemesis
Just like it will be perfectly fine for Brad to move off Horford so they don't pay him $26.5MM next season.
I would agree, except that you still have the same ball-handling concerns if you trade for someone like Collins, which will lead to the same crunch-time offense issues.
Ok-defense/good-offense ball-handlers can be found in the $15-25MM range, and getting one would unlock everything for the Celtics imo. You can move Tatum to the 4, Smart to the 2, stagger things to let Smart be the PG on bench units, upgrade shooting, etc.
Getting a talent upgrade at the 4 is fine, but it means you probably have to trade Smart to make everything else work, and he's playing out of his mind right now in a way that looks sustainable (based on defense/connecting the offense, rather than hot 3PT shooting). Just feels harder to make all the pieces work, but if Collins is available, maybe it's worth making that effort.
By picks I assume you are talking about the maximum number of possible #1s and pick swaps? Plus a young player or two. While Horford has played well, those 2 are the definition of flotsam/cap filler in a deal, especially with a team who is not Championship driven in 2022. Washington has a bunch of centers already,, and Schroder would be a buyout candidate (If Wash were to trade Beal, might as well go full tank)
I realize I'm late to the party but I just looked up all the guards with cap numbers between 15-25 mill and basically you're suggesting we look at the following list to unlock the C's. Brogdon, Conley, Van Vleet, Dragic, Lonzo, Bledsoe, Scary Terry (who I'd love to see back in Green), Rubio, Dinwiddie, Fultz (interesting from a story standpoint), Dejounte Murray and Derrick White. I don't know which of them meet the OK-defense/good-offense ball handler metric because I don't watch a ton of NBA other than the C's but I'd love to know who from that list would be "worth" making a deal for understanding that some teams (the Bulls and Lonzo and sadly Charlotte and Terry probably say no because they're in the fight.)
Weiss, in Athletic, today reported Celts offered Schroder for Divencenzo. Bucks responded by asking for Granite. Teams still talking.
That makes sense in all directions---Schroder would help Bucks a bit, but Divencenzo is pretty much their only chip. Grant is better than Divencenzo, so little reason to do that.
That makes sense in all directions---Schroder would help Bucks a bit, but Divencenzo is pretty much their only chip. Grant is better than Divencenzo, so little reason to do that.
Don't think PBS will be able to get it done by Thursday. BUT that's a good list for Brad to start with. Pacers may move Brogdon in the offseason, have to look into his medicals, can't imagine he would get a ransom now.
There will be plenty of clubs looking to trade players this summer since a flat-ish Cap makes FA tricky.
There are several teams with two high-priced ballhandlers (Utah, Charlotte, Mavs, SA, Nets).
Chicago/Sacramento have a plethora of young PGs.
UFA: Tre Jones/Brunson/Schroder/Rubio. RFA: Sexton. Simmons is on the block.
The demand for a BALLHANDLER won't be great, most teams are pretty set there and the supply seems decent.
Wouldn't mind the Celtics playing out this season with Smart as the PG. The solution may be adding a better shooting sWing/wing to the JayLords, which makes MS defer more to the other 4 on offense.
Guess they are done with the Semi experience?
if you had even hinted of a Grant Williams for DiVencenzo swap this summer, you'd have been laughed off this board. Now DD plays 16 games this season and he can't get Granite
I really like DD as a buy LOW candidate
Why should we like Divencenzo? (I'm 100% asking out of ignorance, not to cast aspersions). He's a career 34% shooting SG from three who seems to have been terrible this year.
Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
7m
I'm told that reports Boston and Milwaukee have talked a Dennis Schroder-Donte DiVincenzo swap are accurate. What has killed a deal thus far is the Bucks want the Celtics to include Grant Williams in the deal and Boston is unwilling to part with their backup big man.
@KeithSmithNBA
7m
I'm told that reports Boston and Milwaukee have talked a Dennis Schroder-Donte DiVincenzo swap are accurate. What has killed a deal thus far is the Bucks want the Celtics to include Grant Williams in the deal and Boston is unwilling to part with their backup big man.
Upside before he was injured seemed to be a very very good 3 and D guy. Wracked up a lot of steals, was hitting more and more 3's on increasing volume. He's been really bad in limited time since coming back, but still only 25.
Last season DiVincenzo posted career bests in points, rebounds, assists, minutes, and 3-point percentage as he played the most prominent role in his career.
He had a season-ending ankle injury in the playoffs and was healing all summer.
He has played 16 games this season, "terrible" is an overreaction to a player that was ascending for 3 straight seasons.
BUT I'm not moving Grant since he is also getting better and I don't buy into all the low ceiling projections on him
The way i read it is they want Grant as a sweetener in the deal. Not that they are willing to trade DD for grant.
Just to amplify @benhogan's point above, his career 3 point percentage is hurt by his poor performance in his rookie season. Take that out, which is perfectly legit, he was a career 36% shooter from 3 entering this season and on an upward arc. He's having a bad season but only has all of 70 attempts.
Seems like a perfect low risk flier to take if the cost is Dennis Schroeder. Agree that adding Grant to the mix is less appealing.
Seems like a perfect low risk flier to take if the cost is Dennis Schroeder. Agree that adding Grant to the mix is less appealing.
agreed. PLUS he's not the greatest fit since DD looks a lot like JRich, Smart and even Langford.
ballhandler/sWing, what Milwaukee wants, are Celtic needs also
Al Horford has started every single game he has played in this season. It could be that Ime thought the matchups favored Al Horford in every single one of those 46 games - but we have no evidence that Ime would start someone else over Horford if the matchups favored it.
maybe get a 3rd team involved (rebuilder) that can give Nesmith minutes and let him burn off his nervous energy
Weiss reported it differently, no idea who is right. But there's little chance Celtics would deal both for Divencenzo, I imagine. I doubt they'd do Grant straight-up though that at least one could see differently. I'm not the biggest Grant guy (upside very limited) but he's become a very useful and cost-controlled role player so swapping him for a RFA who is playing worse this year is not all that clear a win. Milwaukee may have asked for that but I doubt it was really discussed seriously.
Also on Divencenzo, he's a plus passer and that is something we need. So I like the player OK, just limited in asset value.
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But then you need to find a team that is willing to give up value for Nemith, and maybe there is someone willing to give up a future #2 in a deal for nesmith, but I don't imagine that is what Mil would be looking for as a sweetener
I like the move (without Grant), but taking out his worst season and leaving his arguable outlier 38% year isn't really telling you anything. There isn't enough evidence that he can shoot given 3 of his 4 seasons show a bad 3pt shooter. Last year may well be his "Marcus shot 36 percent that one year" season.
He's an athletic defensive guard who may or may not end up a league average shooter. He has some Derrick White vibes. Nice return for Schroder to get a look and his RFA rights, not great if Grant is involved.
I was thinking 3rd team/rebuilder had a vet they'd like to move (ie Nwaba from Houston, but haven't given it much thought)
2nds = owners' cash... so they hold next to no trade value in my book
rumor of Laker interest in JRich
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265716/Lakers-Interested-In-Trade-For-Josh-Richardson
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265716/Lakers-Interested-In-Trade-For-Josh-Richardson
According to the NBA trade machine, Richardson/Horford for Larry Fitzgerald works.
If all it takes is a Josh making 12 million dollars signed through next season and some draft compensation, I hope Brad at least kicked the tires on Richardson for CJ here.
What I'm saying is the Portland fire sale is real and people are getting good players and not giving up much.
The Lakers have offered Talen Horton-Tucker, Kendrick Nunn and a draft pick in trades for several sub-All-Star players. Thus far, they've had no traction in finding a deal with that package.
With good reason. "Hey Boston, interested in this pile of worthless/injured players and a pick for a useful bench piece?"
The Lakers offer is interesting in that you could talk yourself into the 1st being useful if unprotected (assuming it's the 1st), THT is basically if Romeo made 3/30 and was a lot worse on D.
Edit- oh and THT is a worse shooter than Romeo.
Edit- oh and THT is a worse shooter than Romeo.
My take is that McCollum was never going to be a target for Boston for a variety of reasons. His defense is terrible, he is older, has had some durability issues the past few seasons and gets paid a lot of money for a very narrow skillset.
A lot of these deals look like fire sale trades but they are actually fair when you consider the entire package including the financial relief. The Celtics can big game hunt because while their young players are relatively limited, they still have draft picks to deal. There is still a chance though nobody should hold their breath. Except maybe Schroder.
If they could do this deal without including Grant, DiVincenzo is exactly the kind of shooter the Celtics need to add
But all the Lakers fans and NBA media told me he was going to be a superstar?? Remember how good he was in preseason that one time??
I'd describe it this way: if you get McCollum he's your 'third star' and you're counting on him as a ballhandler. Even if you get him for (say) just dumping Horford's salary and nothign else do you think Tatum/Brown/McCollum/TL/Smart with Richardson/Grant/Romeo/fungible big is a contender? If not, you shouldn't take McCollum because his value is only going down. And while that's a good and fun lineup, it's not there imo
Huh? He has 1 season of not being a bad shooter, he's definitely NOT the kind of shooter the Celtics need, they need a reliable shooter.
Donte is more of a poor man's Smart, with the potential to shoot better, but he's definitely not a reliable shooter.
If DD is free then sure sign me up to return to pre-injury form. I’ve never been a fan of his game up until last year. He makes a ton of mistakes breaking out of the offensive set prematurely for a non-elite scorer. Having said that, the game was finally slowing down for him last year pre-injury so he was able to finish shots but he’s now back to taking bad shots and playing from a step behind as he had done his first few years in the league. So for free as a flier? Sure. I wouldn’t give up anything of value for him though. Nesmith/Pritchard and a 2nd?
That's my read as well---last year's Divencenzo is indeed a good shooter and secondary creator and would help. But that guy hasn't been seen before or sense and thus it's a gamble.
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1491088854031478787?s=20&t=k6C7pCPi-7kBT3MDalMG0w
Seems about right; they've already moved in this direction to some degree anyway.
Seems about right; they've already moved in this direction to some degree anyway.
You assume correctly. The C's only chance of acquiring a third star is lobbing a host of picks and swaps with expiring (Schroder) and buyout (Horford) contracts. I am wondering if Washington's backsliding and Beal's disappointing season combined with fears of him leaving for nothing or staying for a supermax might lead them to entertain a move now.
Some of these proposed Celtic deals make no sense. The Bucks want more for Donte than the Blazers got for Powell. Beasley for more than JRich? I wouldn't even make that trade one for one.
Grant Williams has played well.... he's not more than the Blazers got for Powell, he's not even close. Also... Powell makes a ton of money, DvD makes basically none.
Agreed. Given what we know of Udoka's focus on defense, its hard to see him wanting a player like McCollum. In the Celtics scheme, he may create more problems than he solves.