helps both teams... hoping for Morey/Klutch/Marks/Harden/Simmons egofest blows it up
a Harden/Kyrie simmering feud & Simmons working on his California tan is what all of Celtic nation should be rooting for
16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity
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a Harden/Kyrie simmering feud & Simmons working on his California tan is what all of Celtic nation should be rooting for
I love Joel Embiid, so I'd love to see it from that perspective. Harden's a flawed player, but as a scorer, passer and shooter, he complements Embiid extremely well. I think Doc could make that team into a title contender.
Brooklyn may have to do it at this point, but it's gotta be incredibly disappointing. Kevin Durant is so good that he and Harden alone make that team a contender. If they could have just gotten all three guys on the floor at the same time, they could have been dominant for a long time. But, between Durant's health and Kyrie's vaccination status it never happened, and now it looks like it never will. I'm not high on Brooklyn going forward if they make this deal, even though on paper it's a good fit for Simmons' game. It just places too much on Durant's shoulders, and I don't think you can ask that much of him at this stage of his career.
Brooklyn may have to do it at this point, but it's gotta be incredibly disappointing. Kevin Durant is so good that he and Harden alone make that team a contender. If they could have just gotten all three guys on the floor at the same time, they could have been dominant for a long time. But, between Durant's health and Kyrie's vaccination status it never happened, and now it looks like it never will. I'm not high on Brooklyn going forward if they make this deal, even though on paper it's a good fit for Simmons' game. It just places too much on Durant's shoulders, and I don't think you can ask that much of him at this stage of his career.
Agreed. I think you tell your owner "this is about the next year or two and titles. The back-end will be awful" And they sign they check or they don't
Morey is smart---he's already had that discussion as an input to whether to make this deal
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1491440939541630976?s=20&t=cJDU_Q9nOxmiZm6nqIzbXw
Keith Smith: Not really newsy per se, but rival teams seem to enjoy talking trades with Brad Stevens. One exec said "He's not trying to get blood from a stone and squeeze for "one more thing" like Danny (Ainge) did." Another told me "It's less like you're giving up rights to your first-born."
Keith Smith: Not really newsy per se, but rival teams seem to enjoy talking trades with Brad Stevens. One exec said "He's not trying to get blood from a stone and squeeze for "one more thing" like Danny (Ainge) did." Another told me "It's less like you're giving up rights to your first-born."
I think there's a chance that Kyrie is allowed to play games in Brooklyn in April. I think there's a sentiment that everyone that wants a vaccine has gotten one, and we've pushed as many of the fence sitters as we could to getting their shots. Some of the media headlines downplay the fact that about 80% of those eligible have gotten at least one jab.
Kyrie, KD, and Simmons would make BKN a tough playoff opponent, as Simmons adds size and defense, and he will not need to shoot. Assumes everyone stays healthy, clearly a risk given Kyrie's history, KD's aches and pains this year, and Simmons not having played in months. And Klutch/Simmons will not be able to throw KD under the bus as easily as Embiid or Doc.
And Philly gets Harden for a guy that's not playing for them; what's not to like.
Kyrie, KD, and Simmons would make BKN a tough playoff opponent, as Simmons adds size and defense, and he will not need to shoot. Assumes everyone stays healthy, clearly a risk given Kyrie's history, KD's aches and pains this year, and Simmons not having played in months. And Klutch/Simmons will not be able to throw KD under the bus as easily as Embiid or Doc.
And Philly gets Harden for a guy that's not playing for them; what's not to like.
Simmons defense with KD, Kyrie, Joe Harris, Paddy Mills, Aldridge/Claxton launching works really well for the Nets
this deal is a no-brainer for the Nets (and Philly)
Harris' health is a big unknown---and the need for him goes up with Simmons. Not that it changes the right choice for Brooklyn, mostly just impacts their playoff scariness this year
Isn't the word that Curry would be coming along with Simmons? If so, that greatly reduces the need for Harris. And word is, they are looking to move Harris anyway
Agree Curry gets at that need; have seen both of he and Thybulle mentioned and I personally don't know how much else will end up in the deal. Have not seen they are trying to move Harris, and would surprise me if real.
Several different NBA media members have mentioned Harris as a guy who is available. The assumption being that the Nets are looking to move him because he is unlikely to play this year, so better to flip his salary slot for a guy who can contribute on the court. This has been separate and apart from the Harden discussion.
Fair enough---have not seen that in the guys I read (not that I see it all, of course). Ultimately that I believe still makes the point that his health is a question and they have a big gap without him---though possibly one they trade him to fill. Tough to see the match for that, but could be
View: https://twitter.com/SIChrisMannix/status/1491442680106479618
THis would imply that the Kings had offers involving a 1st for Harrison Barnes.... and instead chose to trade for another win now PF and slide him to the 3 (not a great position for him) in an attempt to make the play-in.
THis would imply that the Kings had offers involving a 1st for Harrison Barnes.... and instead chose to trade for another win now PF and slide him to the 3 (not a great position for him) in an attempt to make the play-in.
I don’t love the idea of any trade with a team in the Eastern Conference right now. Off-season, I don’t care so much, but it feels to potentially help someone you could face in the playoffs, even if you are hopefully helping yourself
isn't it? Most GMs have cordial relationships, Ainge was notedly difficult and also noted for not getting deals done, now we can't say for sure that's related, but in the NBA there are often deals that are good for both sides, and having some of those deals not happen because you're pushing for extra pieces may well offset the time you get an extra end of bench guy or 2nd.
There was a lot of talk late in the Danny era that one of the reasons he ended up with so many wasted assets was because he was so dedicated to "winning" trades that he let assets decline and/or become toxic instead of making a lesser deal early. Think about all the picks we refused to move, then ended up using to salary dump players, or used on stashes because we had no roster spots.
Ainge was nearly unique in how much he was disliked, plenty of GMs did just as well as him overall on trades, and have good relationships.
This place has a long track record of anticipatory anxiety but maybe we should wait to grade Brad Stevens actual trades before deciding that a Keith Smith puff Tweet means the Celtics are offering Tatum for a few protected seconds or something. Brad may well be one of those smiling, innocent looking sharks who are showing someone their beating heart before they knew it had been extracted.
yeah, it was obviously just a "wow, Brad isn't an asshole like Ainge, I enjoy working with him" nothing comment. If he was giving away the store, it would already have happened.
good take.
GMs/Agents should feel you're reasonable to work with
Increases the chance for the Celtics to be considered more for 3 and 4-way deals where the C's can make on-the-edge moves.
Yeah. I would literally pay $100 to hear about what deals Ainge turned down for Smart, Kings pick, Memphis, etc. over the years. I bet some of them would be intriguing in hindsight.
Ha, that would be some fun content to read.
Danny & Co's last 2-3yrs here were sub-optimal on the stuff we do know about. It only would go downhill from there.
While I'm not sure I see Harden as a huge net positive, I would absolutely eat crow on this one. I still think he should have done something sooner
I have to say, PHI makes that trade they better win a title soon, because Harden is gonna want a max extension and wow does 5/270M look scary for Harden's 33-37 y/o seasons
It won’t be pretty but they have to play a hand. The current team won’t be enough to win a title and Embiid‘s clock is ticking. Dame (if healthy) would have been the best win now option but Harden is probably the 2nd best choice. If I’m a Sixers fan, I’m fine taking that risk.
If any team is in a position to take that chance, it's Philly. Considering Embiid's health their window could close sooner than expected, with or without Harden.
oh yeah they need to do it, just saying you have a rough injury year or two and it's gonna be rough.
Seems like it makes too much sense for Brooklyn not to think in similar terms about getting Simmons paired up with KD. KD is 33. If Simmons' game isn't completely broken, I think the tools he brings to the court could help maximize what KD has left.
Even more so if Kyrie pulls his head out his ass.
Even more so if Kyrie pulls his head out his ass.
I think overall Philly has more to gain because Simmons is obviously not playing for them at all. But, even Simmons for Harden - without some additional stuff from Philly probably makes Brooklyn better in the long-term.
Definitely agreed, if only because Brooklyn (pending Durant's health) is a top tier title contender this year with or without this trade. Simmons is a slightly better fit than Harden and more likely to be on the team next year, plus whatever other assets they can pry from Philly (Curry would be very nice add). Without this move, Philly is DOA this year with no shot at a title, another wasted MVP caliber year from Embiid, and no guarantee that they'll be able to move Simmons for a player as good as Harden in the future.
Although, if I'm Brooklyn, one has to think that Harden for Simmons would be on the table this Summer. So, the question is - do you potentially prop up another contender for the EC finals now, or give yourself more of a clear lane to the Finals this year, and make that additional move in the Summer?
If Philly gives up too much right now, they're probably DOA even with Harden. Assuming health for all involved on both teams, I don't think Philly is getting past KD/Simmons/Kyrie if there are quality 'extras' in addition to Simmons anyway.
As I noted above, this plus the risk Harden leaves for nothing is why Philly may just take best offer on the table in the end….
Possibly, but how much of Harden's future is "I gotta get to Philly" and how much is "I gotta get away from Brooklyn"? If it's more the latter, he may be able to leave Brooklyn with nothing, or maybe just a trade exception. If they think Harden is definitely gone after this year, they'll have to decide if it's worth elevating Philly now to avoid being empty handed later.
He plays so slow I don’t see why his next contract would be an issue as he has never relied on athleticism, speed or quickness. The guy is an offensive genius in creating angles, running PNR and scoring/passing…..I don’t see that changing anytime soon. I see nothing wrong with his ages 33-35 years.
It is much harder to stay in shape as you age. Harden has been out of shape the last 2 years and missed multiple games with hamstring injuries. If, and that is a big if, he decides to take care of his body he will stay elite. If not, 60 million per year doesn't look great for those years.
He doesn't rely on speed per se but he absolutely relies on changing speeds, where he has been elite. I wouldn't expect it to derail his career or anything (CP3 is still chugging along at 36) but it can put a dent in his game if defenders don't have to worry quite as much about penetration.
Harden has been one of the leagues most durable players his entire career. He missed games earlier with year with a hand injury but you believe that he is missing games leading up to the trade deadline bc of his hamstring……well I dunno.
The alternative is he is just out of shape and quitting on his second team in two years. Still seems like a pretty big risk.
I agree with HRB---there is a chance it doesn't happen and Harden ages well. It's a not a case where his game is primary about his athelticism like Blake Griffin. But I do not think it's a great bet he ages all that well between his hard-living lifestyle; being intermittently out of shape; and some degree of question about his drive. That is amplified by my sense that he is pretty finicky about his role and the team around him too - nothing we have seen from him since he became a star suggests his approach will be like Vince Carter's to seamlessly transition into a role-player and stay enthusiastic in a declining role on a middling team.
He missed a ton of games down the stretch last year too, including half the playoff series against MIL which eliminated them.
Yeah, there are lots of risks all around in a potential Simmons/Harden deal. For both teams. If it happens, I think we are all guaranteed some extra entertainment value.
Especially if those two teams meet in the playoffs.
Especially if those two teams meet in the playoffs.
James Harden, of all people, isn't the best bet to defeat or even defy father time. I don't know CP3s workout routine or that of any other players who are producing into their mid-30s but I also can't think of any others who are routinely coming into the last few seasons with significant added weight. He may be able to do this until he is in his 40s but unlike Bartolo Colon, even if he doesn't rely on quickness, he needs all the agility he can get. Extra weight and age tend to sap you of that, especially as you get into your 30s.
Yeah I wouldn’t stake my life on it but aside from that the hamstring injury last year and otherwise been super durable his entire career. As others have said, those injuries crop up with age if the work ethic isn’t there. There are a bunch of similar players in the same boat…..Beal and Lillard off the top of my head. I think I’d prefer Harden’s next 3-4 year over theirs especially Lillard.
This came up the Durant year, the problem wasn't the picks, the problem was holding on to James Young. The rumors at the time were that teams were offering future seconds for firsts, in which case you may as well make a draft & stash move because you're as likely to get a rotation player then as you are using a second rounder (i.e. not terribly likely). But had they paid someone to eat Young's contract they could have made at least one of those other selections in the '16 draft. Aside from that there just aren't a lot of good deals to be had for mid firsts in mediocre drafts (I'm thinking of '19 there, the Langford draft, it was estimated to be around ten deep, and they ended up with #14).
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