2023-24 Yankees Offseason Discussion
- Thread starter jon abbey
- Start date
Yep, Gage and a 19 year old in DSL, Christian Zazueta.
Gage was cheaper and had an option and a lot of team control, but it's hard to complain about spinning a guy you just claimed last week for a year of control of a legit MLB lefty reliever.
Gage was cheaper and had an option and a lot of team control, but it's hard to complain about spinning a guy you just claimed last week for a year of control of a legit MLB lefty reliever.
You’ll note that three of these six are teammates now:
Here’s the 2022-23 barrel rate leaderboard (min. 50 IP):
1. Gregory Santos: 0.9%
2. Jonathan Loáisiga: 1.9%
3. Clay Holmes: 2.1%
4. Pete Fairbanks: 2.9%
5. Tyler Rogers: 3.0%
6. Caleb Ferguson: 3.1%
(MLB average: 8.1%)
Here’s the 2022-23 barrel rate leaderboard (min. 50 IP):
1. Gregory Santos: 0.9%
2. Jonathan Loáisiga: 1.9%
3. Clay Holmes: 2.1%
4. Pete Fairbanks: 2.9%
5. Tyler Rogers: 3.0%
6. Caleb Ferguson: 3.1%
(MLB average: 8.1%)
Also LAD used Ferguson as an opener a few times, which brought down his overall numbers. His 2023 reliever-only numbers are very strong:
Caleb Ferguson 2023:
as Starter (Opener): 6.2 IP, 11H, 5 ER, 3BB, 5K , 6.75 ERA
as Reliever: 53.2 IP, 53H, 25R, 18ER, 20BB, 65K, 3.02 ERA
Caleb Ferguson 2023:
as Starter (Opener): 6.2 IP, 11H, 5 ER, 3BB, 5K , 6.75 ERA
as Reliever: 53.2 IP, 53H, 25R, 18ER, 20BB, 65K, 3.02 ERA
How does this work? Are there invitations and RSVP cards? IIRC, in the Northeast you are expected to put a stamp on the SASE. Do they ask "chicken or fish" in the invite? Or is that later? I assume there is a vegetarian alternative.
And is there a "B list" in case a few folks send their regrets?
I've always loved the "invited to Spring Training" concept. I mean, these guys are in the system. Wouldn't it be more correct to say they've been told to report to the Major League training site instead of the minor league site? And bring their nice bats and balls and gloves?
I actually don't think the guys who have just signed minor league deals this winter are actually 'in the system', they are under contract with that team but nothing is guaranteed after spring training, not even a minor league invite.
Anyway, yes, that would be more precise wording, but every team announces them this way every season.
Interesting runthrough of NY’s NRIs, Yerry De Los Santos is the most intriguing to me of the players from other organizations.
https://tomkosensky.com/2024/02/06/yankees-a-look-at-the-non-roster-invitees/
https://tomkosensky.com/2024/02/06/yankees-a-look-at-the-non-roster-invitees/
Yankees are the only team in baseball that are will not have City Connect uniforms (I am not counting the A's for obvious reasons). Extremely lame.
Sincere question: have the Ys ever demonstrated humor or even playfulness as a group?
No. I wish they would. It's lame that they think they are too cool for this kind of stuff.
Strange question, obviously my post was a joke and obviously the organization is stuck in some imaginary 1950 world as far as facial hair rules. I think they get excited in the locker room after division titles or series wins as much as any team, not that we've seen many in recent years.
Come on fellow Yankee fans, you can do better than that. Of course they have - just because the organization does things a certain way, it doesn't mean the players themselves are all robots. I think people take this idea too far sometimes, especially here. Just Nestor himself and some of the stuff he does is one example. There was a game last year where half the dugout started playing a game where they were trying to hit a certain spot with gum. Gleyber and Rizzo have their little BFF routine when one of them homers.
No, they don't have a stupid hat or go for a ride in a cart every time someone homers, but I'm glad they don't do that stuff.
No, they don't have a stupid hat or go for a ride in a cart every time someone homers, but I'm glad they don't do that stuff.
I don't really care or think about things like that, I just want to see them trying their best to win. The facial hair thing does infuriate me but I've posted that a million times already.
Right, but that's an example of an organizational thing. I just think it's silly to pretend that because someone plays on the Yankees, they automatically have no personality.
I guess I interpreted the question differently then. I'm totally in agreement when it comes to the organization.
Whatever. Its not like anyone else wanted him or competent pitching twice through the order or having hope over the summer.
Enjoy rooting for expensive wins!
I have always liked Snell, just ask @VORP Speed. We all know his negatives, but I just keep thinking that he only gave up 18 total ERs in his final 23 starts last season, for a 1.20 ERA over 135 innings. That is incredible, no matter the underlying data.
I will still believe it once someone officially announces it, there are a lot of reasons it doesn't really make sense.
I will still believe it once someone officially announces it, there are a lot of reasons it doesn't really make sense.
Andy M dumps some water on those rumors:
View: https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1760487790754599187?s=46&t=0GHHaPVUX26Io0V2HIcS0g
View: https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1760487790754599187?s=46&t=0GHHaPVUX26Io0V2HIcS0g
But this "stay tuned..." is just dangling out there.
View: https://twitter.com/BryanHoch/status/1760491372287537371?s=20
I have a very important announcement to make about your paychecks. They will arrive on time and in the correct amount. Stay tuned though.
I bet they were going to sign Snell this morning, but both Cashman and Boras use AT&T so they are offline.
View: https://twitter.com/TalkinYanks/status/1761070141649924426?s=20
This has to be nice for Judge.
This has to be nice for Judge.
Fans were lukewarm on his potential acquisition before Soto, I can't imagine that will change next year.
Maybe. But let's see what Dominguez looks like when he gets back healthy and how Spencer Jones develops over the course of next season.
If Dominguez sticks and Jones looks close, I think it could be another short term solution like Verdugo for another year if Soto isn't around.
But who knows. Lots of things can happen in a year.
If Dominguez sticks and Jones looks close, I think it could be another short term solution like Verdugo for another year if Soto isn't around.
But who knows. Lots of things can happen in a year.
Moving this from the main forum...
First of all, there's no way to put a value on Judge trying to sell Soto on staying in pinstripes for a full season. For instance, if NY didn't trade for Rizzo at the deadline in 2022 and had just tried to sign him that winter as a FA, I think it would have been more difficult and might have cost them more even.
Next, the pitchers NY gave up. Those guys are going to really help SD this season but here is how they break down individually:
King: Looked incredible down the stretch but big questions how he will hold up to a full season workload, NY very likely selling high here. Also it's important to note that he is a FA after 2025, so NY essentially replaced him (at a higher cost) with Stroman (2 year deal and a possible player option for a 3rd if he pitches enough innings). Who would you rather have for the next two seasons in your rotation (ignoring cost)? I think it's close, but I might take Stroman.
Thorpe: Had an amazing initial pro season, but I think NY prefers Warren and Hampton and managed to keep both of them. Right now their entire rotation is under contract through at least 2025, so Thorpe was a bit of a luxury and NY is very confident in their ability to develop young pitchers.
Brito/Vazquez: Both interesting but very replaceable, kind of nice to clear the 40 man spots.
OK, on to Bellinger:
His big appeal to NY was always that he was a LHH with perfect positional flexibility for their needs, CF immediately, LF once Dominguez comes back midseason, and 1B starting in 2025 when Rizzo's deal is up. However, the overlooked part of the Soto trade is that NY also got two years of Trent Grisham, a spectacular defensive CF as good as any in the game, a Kiermaier/Bader type. This buys them transition time while Dominguez gets healthy and Spencer Jones continues to develop.
Bellinger's just-signed contract: It's really hard to build around a guy who can potentially opt out after every season, I'm sure NY would not have been thrilled about that. Also they tend to only go for hitters who have high exit velocities, that is not a Bellinger strength.
Also something we have almost no knowledge about, but NY knows the real situation: Japanese star 1B Munetaka Murakami will come to the US after 2025, and there has been buzz for years that he wants to play for the Yankees.
So, all in all, I prefer this way. I don't really trust Bellinger's offense to be stellar, and I love Grisham's defense and his power profiles perfectly with NY's short RF. Of course the pitchers NY dealt could have always been moved in a different deal but I don't think NY will really miss them, and what is a better use of excess assets than Juan Soto's freaking walk season???
This is pretty fascinating, let's dig in.
First of all, there's no way to put a value on Judge trying to sell Soto on staying in pinstripes for a full season. For instance, if NY didn't trade for Rizzo at the deadline in 2022 and had just tried to sign him that winter as a FA, I think it would have been more difficult and might have cost them more even.
Next, the pitchers NY gave up. Those guys are going to really help SD this season but here is how they break down individually:
King: Looked incredible down the stretch but big questions how he will hold up to a full season workload, NY very likely selling high here. Also it's important to note that he is a FA after 2025, so NY essentially replaced him (at a higher cost) with Stroman (2 year deal and a possible player option for a 3rd if he pitches enough innings). Who would you rather have for the next two seasons in your rotation (ignoring cost)? I think it's close, but I might take Stroman.
Thorpe: Had an amazing initial pro season, but I think NY prefers Warren and Hampton and managed to keep both of them. Right now their entire rotation is under contract through at least 2025, so Thorpe was a bit of a luxury and NY is very confident in their ability to develop young pitchers.
Brito/Vazquez: Both interesting but very replaceable, kind of nice to clear the 40 man spots.
OK, on to Bellinger:
His big appeal to NY was always that he was a LHH with perfect positional flexibility for their needs, CF immediately, LF once Dominguez comes back midseason, and 1B starting in 2025 when Rizzo's deal is up. However, the overlooked part of the Soto trade is that NY also got two years of Trent Grisham, a spectacular defensive CF as good as any in the game, a Kiermaier/Bader type. This buys them transition time while Dominguez gets healthy and Spencer Jones continues to develop.
Bellinger's just-signed contract: It's really hard to build around a guy who can potentially opt out after every season, I'm sure NY would not have been thrilled about that. Also they tend to only go for hitters who have high exit velocities, that is not a Bellinger strength.
Also something we have almost no knowledge about, but NY knows the real situation: Japanese star 1B Munetaka Murakami will come to the US after 2025, and there has been buzz for years that he wants to play for the Yankees.
So, all in all, I prefer this way. I don't really trust Bellinger's offense to be stellar, and I love Grisham's defense and his power profiles perfectly with NY's short RF. Of course the pitchers NY dealt could have always been moved in a different deal but I don't think NY will really miss them, and what is a better use of excess assets than Juan Soto's freaking walk season???
What I really like about the way this year's Yankee positon player side has been put together is that you have a bunch of guys who are on expiring deals and will be playing for big FA money: Soto, Gleyber, Verdugo, Rizzo (team option for 2025 at $17M, $6M buyout). NY wants to keep Soto badly assuming this year goes well, they will probably let the others go, but either way, they already have in-house replacements for all of them if they all leave (not that you can really replace Soto's bat).
1B: LeMahieu
2B: Vivas
3B: Peraza (taking over from DJ who would move to 1B)
OF: Judge, Dominguez, Grisham, Spencer Jones
So by comparison, if Judge had left in FA or if Cole hadn't signed with NY. NY would have been completely fucked. Even if all four of those hitters leave, I think NY would be OK.
But very importantly, NY will get another year of evaluation on all of those guys, FAs and minor leaguers both. So we'll see, but I love the way Cashman has put this together as of now.
1B: LeMahieu
2B: Vivas
3B: Peraza (taking over from DJ who would move to 1B)
OF: Judge, Dominguez, Grisham, Spencer Jones
So by comparison, if Judge had left in FA or if Cole hadn't signed with NY. NY would have been completely fucked. Even if all four of those hitters leave, I think NY would be OK.
But very importantly, NY will get another year of evaluation on all of those guys, FAs and minor leaguers both. So we'll see, but I love the way Cashman has put this together as of now.
There is no way Bellinger would have signed such a contract with the Yankees early on and waiting until spring training started for his market to (not) develop would have made navigating through this offseason much more challenging. I'm glad Cashman moved relatively quickly on Soto.
And while this really isn't a big deal, the early Soto deal also quieted down the fans. I don't think Verdugo and Stroman deals on their own would have helped too much there.
The fan angst would have rivaled the winter of discontent playing out in Boston. Happy to not see that.
And while this really isn't a big deal, the early Soto deal also quieted down the fans. I don't think Verdugo and Stroman deals on their own would have helped too much there.
The fan angst would have rivaled the winter of discontent playing out in Boston. Happy to not see that.
Bellinger's WAR the past 4 seasons has been 1.5, -1.7, 1.2, 4.4. It's very possible he has a pretty mediocre year and opts into his 2/$50M remaining deal.
I think it will all boil down to how those pitchers develop and if Rodon/Cortes/Stroman can stay healthy. If those three produce all season, the status quo is a great place to be. If not, and King or Thorpe take the jump the way that Montgomery did...
Plus, my impression is that Bellinger might not fit the Yankee vibe.
But he signed for much less than I expected and his profile would seem to match up with the NYY roster this year and into the future.
I'm actually glad to have Soto in the AL East. Stroman too. Those guys will create great theater this summer.
If not, NY still have their cake here (Will Warren and Chase Hampton, I think there's a good chance they value these two ahead of all four guys they sent to SD) and can eat it too (one year of Soto).
NY has been making moves for 2 1/2 seasons now based on their (hopeful) ability to continue to develop waves of pitching. At this time last year, King was a 1-2 inning reliever, Thorpe had not thrown a pro inning, and Brito and Vasquez were only on the 40 man because NY had traded a whole bunch of pitchers who were ahead of them.
I posted this once before in the wake of the Soto deal but NY has traded/lost 20 minor league pitchers in the 16 months between Aug 2022 and Dec 2023, and just continues to churn out more.
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It took Chandler Champlain (one), T.J. Sikkema (two) and Beck Way (three) to land Andrew Benintendi.
Ken Waldichuk (four), JP Sears (five) and Luis Medina (six) helped bring back Frankie Montas and Lou Trivino.
Hayden Wesneski (seven) was the price for Scott Effross.
Wilking Rodriguez (eight) was lost in the 2022 Rule 5 draft.
Diego Hernandez (nine) brought Greg Allen to The Bronx.
Juan Carela (10) returned Keynan Middleton.
Adding Alex Verdugo meant giving up Greg Weissert (11), Richard Fitts (12) and Nicholas Judice (13).
Michael King (14), Drew Thorpe (15), Randy Vásquez (16) and Jhony Brito (17) were the bulk of the package for Juan Soto.
In this week’s Rule 5 draft, plucked were Mitch Spence (18), Matt Sauer (19) and Carson Coleman (20)."
https://nypost.com/2023/12/09/sports/yankees-pitching-program-paid-dividends-again-in-juan-soto-deal
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NY could still get back some of that final set of 3, the Royals and A's both added a bunch of other pitchers after those rule 5 picks, and not all of those 20 guys are studs (obviously), but that is incredible, to move/lose 20 pitchers in 16 months from the upper minors, and just keep on churning them out.
I think we agree. If the Rodon/Cortes/Stroman combo can all significantly outperform their 2023 stats, the Yanks will be in good shape. And if they cannot, the question will be whether Cashman and crew kept the right guys. Trading for Soto was the aggressive move, and I wish the Sox front office would act with similar boldness. The AL East is going to be fascinating this year... proof is in the pudding.