In fairness to Marcus, he has reined in his hero ball tendencies since taking over for Shane Larkin as backup point guard. His judgment has been surprisingly good since returning from his thumb injury.Stephen Curry is not as good a shooter as Marcus thinks Marcus is.
Celtics vs. the Lebronaires
- Thread starter DJnVa
- Start date
I don't think it wasa rediculous feat of memory. It was an inventive dodge, though.
This, and the fact that they man not have a 5-man unit that doesn't have a matchup or 2 the Celtics can exploit.
Good piece by Kevin O’Connor on how the Celtics played defense on the Cavs and how Cleveland can counter:
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/14/17351226/boston-celtics-defense-lebron-james-game-1
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/14/17351226/boston-celtics-defense-lebron-james-game-1
It's funny because I think we'd all agree with you but Marcus Smart is still averaging 10.1 shots oer game with an EFG% of .390. By comparison, he only averaged 7.4 shots per game in last year's playoffs. And he's playing about the same minutes: 30.4 this year vs.29.9 last year.
Would anyone be shocked to see Ty Lue change his starting lineup?
I could see Tristen Thompson (played well) added to the starters and use Korver (defensive liability vs Tatum/Brown) off the bench.
That may lead the Celtics to counter with Baynes (playedlike garbage OK) which would lead to MaMo (Played excellent) not starting.
I could see Tristen Thompson (played well) added to the starters and use Korver (defensive liability vs Tatum/Brown) off the bench.
That may lead the Celtics to counter with Baynes (played
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There was one matchup in particular that had Smart attacking the basket every time he touched the ball. Think it was Hill, but icbw.
Overall Lebron teams are 34-9 (.791) in playoff series. But they’ve been 25-2 (.926) when winning G1 (including 22-0 in series they’ve led 2-0) and 9-7 (.563) when losing it.
Following a game 1 defeat, Lebron’s teams have gone 11-5 (.688) in G2, winning 7 of the 11 series they started LW and still managing to take 2 of the 5 series they started 0-2.
The takeaway? The Cs have a lot of work left to do and G2 is huge, but they’re a LOT better off than they were this time last year!
Following a game 1 defeat, Lebron’s teams have gone 11-5 (.688) in G2, winning 7 of the 11 series they started LW and still managing to take 2 of the 5 series they started 0-2.
The takeaway? The Cs have a lot of work left to do and G2 is huge, but they’re a LOT better off than they were this time last year!
I went back and watched highlights from last year's ECF game 1 and was astonished by the pace the Cavs played at. Lightning compared to yesterday's game.
It doesn't favor them at all to play slow. Korver and Love thrive off transition opportunities (don't we all?) And Boston's defense when it's set is a terror. Of course, we made so many shots they couldn't get out and run most of the time.
O'Connor is right about those switches in the post. I expect the Cavs to be better about exploiting them but I also expect the Celtics to know that ball isn't going to the post, it's going to the corner 3. The wing defender will have to switch over, and by then we're in rotation. The Cavs will be better in general about getting into their sets.
I expect them to start Tristan too. He got them sorely needed extra possessions and even if he was getting burned off the dribble, so was everyone else.
It doesn't favor them at all to play slow. Korver and Love thrive off transition opportunities (don't we all?) And Boston's defense when it's set is a terror. Of course, we made so many shots they couldn't get out and run most of the time.
O'Connor is right about those switches in the post. I expect the Cavs to be better about exploiting them but I also expect the Celtics to know that ball isn't going to the post, it's going to the corner 3. The wing defender will have to switch over, and by then we're in rotation. The Cavs will be better in general about getting into their sets.
I expect them to start Tristan too. He got them sorely needed extra possessions and even if he was getting burned off the dribble, so was everyone else.
I think I realized why the media was impressed with Lebron's recall. It's because they really don't pay attention.
On NBA Radio this morning, Frank Isola and Scalabrine (who you would think would be paying some attention) were talking about the game and they talked about what Cleveland might do in game 2 and they said that if Lebron can get Morris with 2 early fouls the whole game changes. Completely ignoring the fact that in game 1 Morris picked up 2 early fouls, which would seem to be an important point in the discussion about how 2 early fouls would change things...
On NBA Radio this morning, Frank Isola and Scalabrine (who you would think would be paying some attention) were talking about the game and they talked about what Cleveland might do in game 2 and they said that if Lebron can get Morris with 2 early fouls the whole game changes. Completely ignoring the fact that in game 1 Morris picked up 2 early fouls, which would seem to be an important point in the discussion about how 2 early fouls would change things...
I brought this up earlier. Does anyone else think Lue will stick Tristen in the starting lineup for G2?
And use Korver off the bench, where his defense could hide against Smart or Ojeleye.
How would the Celtics react to Tristen starting? Would they change the starting lineup or change the coverage?
Is there another option than start Baynes? He did a pretty good job of containing Thompson on the boards. Felt like all of Thompson's ORB were in that first quarter off Horford and co.
I don't think it's a salve for Cleveland, but it might help. But their problems last night were pace, shooting, and defense, and the last one ain't gonna be fixed. Maybe the former two can be.
Someone posted a preECFG1 analysis here recently that said the opposite. The Celtics were 12tg in the NBA in half court and #1 in the league in transition defense. C's also have a problem with rim protection. Just think back to how much of a problem Giannis was in the paint. Bucks FG% was very high almost that whole series.
Not sure who is right.
If this does happen, the fascinating thing will be to see whether Brad counters with starting a line-up of (or quickly subbing in) both Baynes AND Morris and putting Brown on the bench to start. That puts a lot of pressure on Morris to be a scoring option, but on the other hand having Brown available to come in and go up against some of the Cavs' bench players is intriguing. And, of course, if Morris starts out shitty Brad could always get Brown in the game ASAP anyway.
Looked to me like Thompson's ORBs all came when the big (Horford or Baynes) rotated to help on penetration and no one else blocked him out. That should be a point of emphasis for game 2.
You can handle it one of two ways.
1) Start Baynes and sit Morris. This would get somebody inside to bang with Thompson, but would severely weaken the team defense against LeBron.
2) Stay with the same starting lineup as Game 1. This would force Thompson to guard somebody that is quicker than him but he'd have the size advantage inside and could control the boards.
I'd go with #2. TT can easily be taken out of the middle with pick and rolls and could be switched onto somebody that he can't guard off the dribble. A wrinkle from Lue would be to use Thompson as a spy and keep him roaming in the paint to take away the driving lanes that were wide open yesterday. Morris can't be taken out of the starting lineup as well given what happened yesterday.
Who would TT start for? If it's Hill, then LeBron will be the point guard which is really is anyways. If it's JR Smith, it takes a 3-pt threat off the court which I'd be in favor of. This would also force Love to guard somebody like Tatum which would be comical to see.
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To me; it seems like the Celtics can get off a good shot against Cleveland’s defense any time they want. The issue is Cleveland doesn’t have a lineup right now that can prevent Boston from penetrating into the paint. So much of the Celtics’ success right now is based on their ability to have a lineup filled with talent that can reliably shoot from outside and beat players off the dribble. The reason Boston got an absurd number of points in the paint and also got a bunch of open three point looks is because Cleveland lacks enough perimeter defenders that can stop Boston from getting into the teeth of the defense and either finishing at the rim, or kicking out when the help defense rotates over.
I think Smart's just easier to watch now that Terry Rozier is actually making shots.
I don't see that Baynes played like garbage. His stats are good,
25 min., 2-5, 8 rebounds 2 Assists, 2 steals, 1 block,+17, 4 pts. He used his bulk great as a rim protector/rebounder. I thought all the Celtics except the extreme end of the bench played very well.
I think if anyone goes to the bench to keep the Baynes/Thompson match intact, it would be Tatum. Brad would keep the guard rotation intact and rotate Tatum with Morris/Al/Baynes.
I agree on Baynes. Just seeing someone get a body on Thompson as he crashed the offensive glass was enough got me. Baynes did have two ticky tack fouls on easy lay ins that resulted in and ones, which I hate, but I forgave him because of the boxing out.
Hope you enjoyed it. 9pm ET start tonight for GS-HOU. I might only watch the first half before crashing; good luck to you and Jose.
Good point - given that Brown is our de facto starting 2-guard you're right it would make more sense to put Tatum on the bench. But given Tatum's scoring ability I can't see him not starting, so I guess it probably does come down to a Baynes/Morris decision if TT starts.
True enough. I didn't revisit the highlights so you'll have to forgive me (or me myself). Unfortunately, it's pretty fucking hard to block out a body like Thompson when people are scrambling to contain penetration.
I guess I actually like the idea of 2. With two you'd also have Love forced to guard Tatum or Morris. Both of those are highly favorable match-ups on O. That's if the team can gang rebound well enough to keep TT of the boards. Then we're in business. If they can't it's going to get mighty frustrating.
But my guess is Baynes is out there for Morris so Horford can stay on Love. Baynes isn't such a liability now that he can drag Thompson out to the corner, too.
You're right. Maybe my post is just a reflection of how much last night confused me then. Lebron is at his best when he backs three or four feet off the three point line and goes to the rim. He took six mid-rangers last night, five shots at the rim, and five three-pointers. I don't imagine he'll repeat that ratio.
When Greg Kite is hitting left hand hook shots, it's definitely not your night.
I'm guessing if TT starts, Brad will start Baynes for Morris. Horford can stay on Love. Jaylen would cover Lebron, with a quick hook (bring in MaMo) if Bron is too much.
I like the idea of Baynes playing in the corner 3 on offense and drawing TT out to the 3pt line thus leaving the paint open for dribble drive.
The chess match between Ty Lue and Brad has begun, and I like our chances
I guess Baynes wasn't garbage in G1, that was too harsh on my part.
I like the idea of Baynes playing in the corner 3 on offense and drawing TT out to the 3pt line thus leaving the paint open for dribble drive.
The chess match between Ty Lue and Brad has begun, and I like our chances
I guess Baynes wasn't garbage in G1, that was too harsh on my part.
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Expect TT to start Game 2:
Dave McMenaminVerified account @mcten
Tyronn Lue all but revealed that the Cavs will start Tristan Thompson in Game 2. He says they are “weighing it” but also cited advanced analytics that show just how well Thompson has guarded Al Horford over the years.
12:08 PM - 14 May 2018
Dave McMenaminVerified account @mcten
Tyronn Lue all but revealed that the Cavs will start Tristan Thompson in Game 2. He says they are “weighing it” but also cited advanced analytics that show just how well Thompson has guarded Al Horford over the years.
12:08 PM - 14 May 2018
Yeah.. that confused me too. Bron kept settling for jumpers when he didn’t seem to be having any trouble getting to the rim.
Couple guys on nbatv we’re saying that Bron has a habit of taking game one off.. he definitely seemed pretty checked out yesterday.
I don't think Baynes has much use in this series other than matching up with Tristan Thompson. If Thompson starts for Cleveland, the Celtics should start Baynes. I'm not sure who should sit, but probably Morris or Tatum.
It's probably not a popular take, but lineup wise I think starting Morris and Baynes and bringing Tatum off the bench makes the most sense, if Thompson is starting and one of Hill/Korver/Smith sits. Either way Morris and Tatum will get starters minutes.
I had the same question here as soon as I read that. The obvious answer is that Lue can't say the real reason is because LeBron wants Morris off the court.
Simmons is on with Zach Lowe's podcast today. Just start it with your pants already off. They gush over Tatum, Horford, the future, etc. and it's wonderful
I would probably sit Brown if TT starts. Not because I’m scared of TT but because i’d want to maximize the time he plays vs the Cavs 2nd unit. In Game 1 Brown/Baynes/Smart all played roughly the same amount of minutes, so I don’t think it’s a huge deal who starts. Between Brown/Tatum, i’d start Tatum given he has a bit more length which would help with the bigger Cavs lineup and he is likely to see more minutes of the last few games are our guide.
If we can continue to get into the paint like in Game 1 it won’t matter who is out there. It would be great to grind away the first few minutes before unleashing Brown with fresh legs.
If we can continue to get into the paint like in Game 1 it won’t matter who is out there. It would be great to grind away the first few minutes before unleashing Brown with fresh legs.
But transition offense is generally better than half court offense, which is probably more relevant than the ranking.
Brown played limited minutes because it was a blowout. He didn't play a single minute of the 4th quarter. In a normal game, he would've subbed back in around the 8 or 9 minutes mark and and played 36 or 37 minutes.
Probably. But Morris/Tatum/Rozier all played mid 30s minutes. The point remains he can get a lot of minutes without starting so it shouldn’t be ruled out.
I'd play the same lineup as in Game 1, and use Tatum or Brown to cover the offensively challenged TT. Tatum could get overpowered when trying to box him out, but at the other end, the Cavs are going to have a problem covering this lineup,
If Thompson starts cleaning up on the offensive glass, then brad can bring Baynes in quick. Priority one is keeping LeBron from a quick start, and Morris has the best chance of doing that.
If Thompson starts cleaning up on the offensive glass, then brad can bring Baynes in quick. Priority one is keeping LeBron from a quick start, and Morris has the best chance of doing that.
Was going to post the same thought. The longer, more athletic Celtics are better equipped to handle TT than past Celtics teams were. He's a pain, but slowing LeBron down and keeping the scoring out there is more important.
Nobody cares what any of you would do.
Whatever the Celtics do is the right thing to do. Because Brad Stevens. Hes in Belichick territory now.
In Brad I trust.
Whatever the Celtics do is the right thing to do. Because Brad Stevens. Hes in Belichick territory now.
In Brad I trust.
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It's 8, isn't it? Did I miss something or are you not counting Baynes? Horford, Morris, Baynes, Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Semi, and Smart.
edit: Maybe you didn't count Semi but I'd consider him part of the rotation.
LTP, Brad is playing Baynes when TT is on the floor. It's as simple as that. You didn't believe it yesterday and your back on that bandwagon today
He was also a -12 even when he was on the floor. It's not like they are adding the Brow all of a sudden.
Also worth adding TT's minutes in the postseason:
Indy series: 2, 0, 0, 7, 0, 14, 35
Tor Series: 26, 14, 14, 15
C's: 21
So also debatable how much he could even play even if he is effective.
I agree that he might do that, but I'm just saying I'm not sure I would. But that's why Brad is on the sideline and I'm on the couch.