I didn’t see. Just responding in general that he used to be fiery but now he’s whiny.
Goats vs Raiders
- Thread starter Eddie Jurak
- Start date
At some level, yes. But DBs jumping routes is a thing that happens in the NFL, sometimes even to good QBs. I don;t think that was an easy ball for the defender to catch, and I don;t think the throw was as "bad" as putting it between the numbers of a stationary defender.
Parker should have zero role on the team if he cannot make that catch. He serves literally no other value to the offense. Cut him and play Boutte and Thornton.
Mac gets docked big time for missing a wide open Thornton on that deep ball that was ridiculously out of bounds. And, of course, an interception (sorry, I could care less about near misses, so the Montgomery completion was a completion in my book).
The OL is by far the worst unit in the league; I honestly will ignore rankings that attempt to claim otherwise. Mac had literally zero time to even glance at a single receiver when he got sacked in the end zone. That whiff by Trent Brown on the play that got Henry hurt was inexcusable. Mafi's attempt of a block in the end zone was just as bad, but at least he's a late draft pick playing the wrong scheme. They literally need 5 new players next year on that unit; literally every single one of them is below average. Doesn't matter how the unit performed last year - totally irrelevant to this season.
Stevenson has clearly lost a step and the chances of any RB getting it back as they age is nil. But the fact remains that 3 defenders were on him the instant he had the ball because the line is worse than useless.
I still don't get why some posters seem to think that the above is an either-or situation. All 3 of WR, QB and OL can suck. And do.
Mac gets docked big time for missing a wide open Thornton on that deep ball that was ridiculously out of bounds. And, of course, an interception (sorry, I could care less about near misses, so the Montgomery completion was a completion in my book).
The OL is by far the worst unit in the league; I honestly will ignore rankings that attempt to claim otherwise. Mac had literally zero time to even glance at a single receiver when he got sacked in the end zone. That whiff by Trent Brown on the play that got Henry hurt was inexcusable. Mafi's attempt of a block in the end zone was just as bad, but at least he's a late draft pick playing the wrong scheme. They literally need 5 new players next year on that unit; literally every single one of them is below average. Doesn't matter how the unit performed last year - totally irrelevant to this season.
Stevenson has clearly lost a step and the chances of any RB getting it back as they age is nil. But the fact remains that 3 defenders were on him the instant he had the ball because the line is worse than useless.
I still don't get why some posters seem to think that the above is an either-or situation. All 3 of WR, QB and OL can suck. And do.
Your last sentence is spot on. There's plenty to hate about Mac's play. But criticizing what Mac said above (or Bill's mic drop, lol, insert guffaws here) is just going out of one's way to look for something meaningless to complain about.
Bingo. They could bring in 11 new guys for next week and it would only be marginally worse than this collection of puke.
I think BB the head of football ops used to have Ernie and Scar and Ivan and other trusted advisors/coaches to game plan strategize and to think big thoughts with. IMO the brain drain and old age has more than caught up with BB. Kraft has a difficult and unpleasant decision to make and the only ones really happy will be the Shula family.
Unfortunately like every other fucking throw he's made this year it fell incomplete.
It really is unbelievable how bad everyone is on offense. No one blocks well, no one gets yards after contact, the drops, and the QB has negative charisma. It’s the perfect storm of suck.
Yes. 1 1/2 bad games in his career and he sucks. Great insight.
I can show you a game Andrew Luck played vs Oregon where he looked just as bad, and he was still the consensus number 1 pick a few months later.
This. They’re going nowhere this year, may as well get their best shot for the future.
That said, I couldn’t really actively root for failure during the game. Like how the Terminator couldn’t lower himself into the steel. Something in my core won’t let me do it. But I wasn’t really rooting for success, either. More of a morbid curiosity, I guess. Idk, it’s weird.
Extremes like this bring clarity and force business decisions. The worst outcome for this season to me was a mediocre Mac and a 7-8 win season. I thought this offensive personnel meant 5-6 wins at best but I never anticipated the bottoming out like this. This is still the worst team in football and this will not end well for those currently in place.
You mean the defense that was out there for the entire first half because the offense couldn't do anything? The only reason this was a game was because of the defense.
No charisma and no talent to even delude us into thinking he click and pull it together.
My sister’s the hand surgeon, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what fingertips means.
How was it the offense's fault that the Raider's first drive was 8 minutes long? They then let up a 5 play drive and got an interception deep in their own territory after an admittedly short series by the offense... but most of the first quarter was the Raiders driving on the Pats D. Pats offense actually possessed the ball for about 10 minutes of the first 24.
edit: the first two drives were awful.. but the 3rd was a 9 play drive that ended with a field goal.
The defense isn't terrible, and it has lost key players, but it also doesn't make plays. The Raiders offense scored 19 points - their season high. The defense is mediocre.
Given all the injuries on defense and the offense’s inability to stay on the field, I don’t have any issues with how the defense played yesterday. It wasn’t great, but their best players on defense are hurt and not on the field. They probably win this game on defense alone if they had Judon, Gonzalez, and Jack Jones, especially Judon.
I want to see the team get Thornton involved more. He had some jet sweeps last year with some good results. They ran one with Bourne yesterday so it’s clearly something that’s still in the playbook. He has game changing speed and it’s frustrating when the team has these types of players they don’t use them as well as other teams do.
I want to see the team get Thornton involved more. He had some jet sweeps last year with some good results. They ran one with Bourne yesterday so it’s clearly something that’s still in the playbook. He has game changing speed and it’s frustrating when the team has these types of players they don’t use them as well as other teams do.
Elliott had an incredible RAC performance on that 74-yard TD that was all for naught.
I'm actually curious how the Raiders offense is so bad. JG is a competent NFL QB. Jacobs is an elite RB. Adams is an elite WR1. Jakobi is obviously a good NFL WR. How the heck can a team with that group be so bad on offense?
Depending on their relative dead cap hits for being traded, basically everyone on the Pats' offense should be on the trading block, if anyone will take them.
Bourne, Zeke, Hunter Henry would be the most attractive. No one will take that stiff Parker after that pathetic drop yesterday.
I'm sure there's lots of guys on the Pats that other teams wouldn't take. But the Pats should at least be interested in/willing to move any of them.
Lots of Parker hate and agreed that was a bad drop. But receivers drop that ball sometimes. It sticks in our mind because of the situation.
Mac's INT was a far, far worse single play mistake to make. That's not a play you can make as an NFL QB. Just a truly terrible decision, and truly terrible execution on top of it.
Mac's INT was a far, far worse single play mistake to make. That's not a play you can make as an NFL QB. Just a truly terrible decision, and truly terrible execution on top of it.
Except Parker has not made any plays this season. Recall also the terrible route he ran that led to an INT against Miami.
If the question is who was the goat for the game, Mac's INT took the three points off the board that we are hoping maybe Parker's catch could have maybe lead to.
Is Parker a worse WR than Mac is a QB? I don't know, and don't really care. They both suck. But a QB's mistakes have a much bigger impact on winning.
The defense is mediocre now with all the injuries, but healthy is/was likely a top 10 defense, especially if it had an average offense not setting it up constantly in shitty situations.
Mac's INT was terrible because Henry was open and Mac overthrew him badly. Awful throw. But it was the right DECISION. Just a bad throw. But you know what? Every QB makes bad throws. Sometimes they force balls into coverage. Sometimes they under throw a ball badly or overthrow it badly. Sometimes they get fooled by the defense and don't see it (Brady's pick six in SB 51, for example). But Brady had some TERRIBLE interceptions over the course of his career - even in games that they won.
Look at this pick by Brady (we are all familiar with it). Go to the 8:55 mark. Pats up 21-16, driving for a TD to extend the lead. Brady throws off his back foot right to a Panther defender. Just a terrible, awful, horrendous decision and throw.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK_2j0CDNFo
This could easily have cost them the Super Bowl, but Brady overcame it. Because he's great. Mac cannot overcome these kinds of mistakes. Every QB makes them, but the great ones overcome them.
Or this one early in the SB vs. Seattle. (go to the 0:13 mark). Another back foot throw into the end zone right to a Seahawk. And even if it wasn't picked, where the F was that pass going? The only receiver in the area (Edelman) was completely blanketed.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz8ENFKYXe0
We could do this with Peyton, Marino, Montana, Elway....every great QB has had these kinds of godawful, nightmarish interceptions. But the great ones overcome them.
Mac had the terrible interception, but still had a chance at the end to win the game, but didn't.
Look at this pick by Brady (we are all familiar with it). Go to the 8:55 mark. Pats up 21-16, driving for a TD to extend the lead. Brady throws off his back foot right to a Panther defender. Just a terrible, awful, horrendous decision and throw.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK_2j0CDNFo
This could easily have cost them the Super Bowl, but Brady overcame it. Because he's great. Mac cannot overcome these kinds of mistakes. Every QB makes them, but the great ones overcome them.
Or this one early in the SB vs. Seattle. (go to the 0:13 mark). Another back foot throw into the end zone right to a Seahawk. And even if it wasn't picked, where the F was that pass going? The only receiver in the area (Edelman) was completely blanketed.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz8ENFKYXe0
We could do this with Peyton, Marino, Montana, Elway....every great QB has had these kinds of godawful, nightmarish interceptions. But the great ones overcome them.
Mac had the terrible interception, but still had a chance at the end to win the game, but didn't.
When a QB has limited physical tools, he has to get by by making better decisions and fewer mistakes. He has to maximize what tools he does have through technique. None of that is Mac.
The issue is that Mac makes *more* terrible throws (and decisions) than good QBs do. And he makes *fewer* great throws than good QBs do.
This is because Mac isn’t a good QB.
This is because Mac isn’t a good QB.
True. True. And true.
I was just kind of objecting to the claim that "That's not a play you can make as an NFL QB. Just a truly terrible decision, and truly terrible execution on top of it." It was a good decision - Henry was wide open for a big gain and that's a play good QBs normally make. But it was terrible execution for sure. But my objection was that it is a play that you CAN make as an NFL QB - I just showed two absolutely HORRIFIC throws by beloved Tom Brady in huge moments in Super Bowls, and in both games the Pats won, because Brady overcame them.
Mac, however, cannot overcome those kinds of mistakes. He can often come close to overcoming them, but in the end, he can't. He's not good enough to.
I don’t know, felt like a terrible throw AND decision. Mac embracing his inner Mahomes is a train wreck because he doesn’t have the tools to execute off platform.
This may ultimately disqualify him from succeeding in the NFL in any real level given how many teams have tragically bad o lines. Mostly just sad at this point.
The premise of this thread is to list 3 goats. Parker clearly earned the designation. Most would agree that Mac’s play was worse but I have zero issue with people focusing on Parker as well. This team practically goes out of its way to NOT make plays and Parker was another good example.
But, yeah, if you want to designate the ultimate goat, it’s Mac.
And after that talk of a reset or starting over, there was really nothing new. Yes, I know Cunningham got some plays, but still--the offense looked pretty similar to the last few weeks. I get that you can't re-invent the wheel in 1 week, but still.
And, since I'm now on Team Burn It Down, I was so torn when Mac threw that long pass to Parker. It was better for the organization that it wasn't caught, but man...
6th after NYG's loss, based on SOS. With two sure losses in the next two weeks, NE could be 3rd but should be 4th or 5th?
CAR Bye, vs. TEX
CHI vs. LV, @LAC
DEN vs. GB, vs. KC
ARI @ SEA, vs. BAL
NYG vs. WAS, vs. NYJ
NE vs. BUF, @ MIA
DEN is playing hard. ARI should get better towards the end of the year. NYG is competitive and well-coached (a better version of NE at this point, notwithstanding their record).
Yeah--here's my POV on that stuff. Are the folks criticizing Mac of the opinion that a player should go along with a sinking ship because that's simply the player's role? That even though EVERYONE can see the program is broken (and Mac has blame there too) that the player's should toe the company line? Mac isn't it, but guess what, I'm not it either, and I can tell this shit is broken.
They absolutely should, but this isn't MLB where there are a ton of options if we deal 4 or 5 guys--we can't bring up kids from the minors. And that said, a firesale will result in us having like 5 6th rounders next draft. I mean, its assets, so fine, but it really doesn't do much.
Agreed. Plus, since we only have so many guys in the front office, and so many hours in the day, I'd prefer they spend every waking moment preparing for the 2024 Draft and assessing the offseason free agent market. Burning the midnight oil to find a taker who will give up a 6th for Bourne ain't worth the time.