This isn’t true
edit it might be? I had it in my head he wasn’t there for Seattle, but Wikipedia lists it?
Goats vs Raiders
- Thread starter Eddie Jurak
- Start date
edit it might be? I had it in my head he wasn’t there for Seattle, but Wikipedia lists it?
Was going to say the same, although they definitely couldn't block 72 that night
DeGuglielmo was the OL coach the year they beat the Seahawks. Got fired a year later after the OL melted down against Denver.
I asked in a thread somewhere what the Patriots actually did differently:
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1714050163013046317
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1714050163013046317
Once upon a time, our skill players made fingertip catches
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyehfhQONMa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyehfhQONMa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
For whatever reason, Wikipedia credits him with that Super Bowl and that threw me off. Also, that vereen catch is amazing. He did the Steven Ridley td celebration because Ridley had just torn his acl
Sorry about that. I saw @BaseballJones comment first.
Obviously I was wrong but earlier today I would have sworn in a court of law that Dave d was here for 1 year and was terrible.
Haha sorry about that. As soon as I saw his post I replied, not reading through the rest of the thread to see if anyone else already had.
Yeah, Scar was an amazing coach. Also, Brady, while not super fast or a threat to really run, always seemed to have pretty awesome pocket awareness and movement.
The point in playing someone other than Mac is to show you can still run a competent team. Mac gives you zero ability to run a consistent offense. One of those other QBs might. Zappe, not likely.
I don't think they win with Malik or Grier or Zappe either but what I would like to see is what the other skill players look like with a different QB just to see what changing part of the equation does. Perhaps the offense is worse but perhaps we see something/anything different from the offense because the backup QB isn't seeing ghosts since they haven't been pummeled like Mac has. Maybe just maybe they are willing to stand in the pocket more and we find out some of our receivers can make plays down field. I don't think any QB on the roster should be starting but it doesn't mean mixing things up won't generate a different outcome. When you are basically hoping to lose the next best outcome is figuring out if you have anyone on the offense worth a damn.
This makes sense and is an argument I’ve never heard before. We’ve seen Zappe and he’s awful so I never want to see him again, but I can buy that Grier and Cunningham could allow certain other players to showcase themselves in a different way.
My issue is with people who want to change QBs because “there’s no way they can be worse.” Because that line of thinking is both wrong about thinking winning matters anymore this year, and wrong about thinking none anyone else on the roster gives us a better chance than Mac
Almost all of those plays were run to the left. Brown and Mafi are good at moving people.
And the OL was really good that year once they abandoned the Jordan Devey experiment and put Stork in at center with Wendell and Connolly at guard.
My sense of Gugliemo was that he was an ultra hard ass yelling/screaming type that could get guys playing to their talent level but he couldn’t teach guys to correct their mistakes (Stork tipping in 2015) and couldn’t make players better in the way Scarnecchia could. He was a motivator not a teacher and those types get tuned out quickly so it’s not surprising his lack of ability to correct mistakes and elevate players’ skill levels led to him departing.
A bunch of the beat writers have mentioned it in podcasts. I haven't seen it in print since likely no one wants to go on the record about it.
One of the ironic things is that BB is getting hammered for not spending draft capital to improve the offensive line when last year he spent the first round pick on Cole Strange, which was pretty much roasted by all the fans.
Now, inside line is not outside line - so one could quibble with guard vs tackle. It could be just bad injury luck, but so far the issue isn’t that BB is completely unwilling to spend on the offensive line he just picked the wrong player.
Now, inside line is not outside line - so one could quibble with guard vs tackle. It could be just bad injury luck, but so far the issue isn’t that BB is completely unwilling to spend on the offensive line he just picked the wrong player.
I don't see the point in benching Jones but I also think Belichick should bench WRs or RBs much less often. It's always been super annoying when someone gets benched for GAMES simply because he fumbled the ball once. Does it really give the team the best chance to win to play the worse player in games that count? Often it's not even logical as anything other than punishment, like benching Pop Douglas but continuing to have him catch punts.
If you're benching these guys because he thinks it will motivate them or the rest of the team (to hold onto the ball harder, I guess), I don't think that tactic is really worth putting a worse player out there (unless the guy is actually dogging it or something) but it is reasonable to wonder why it doesn't apply to Mac Jones when he seems to make no progress on everything he's doing wrong (I don't really think taking him out down by 4 touchdowns in the 4th really counts and Bill more or less said as much).
I suspect the answer is indeed that there is no other option who isn't way worse, which I agree with, but again that just makes benching other players more silly.
If you're benching these guys because he thinks it will motivate them or the rest of the team (to hold onto the ball harder, I guess), I don't think that tactic is really worth putting a worse player out there (unless the guy is actually dogging it or something) but it is reasonable to wonder why it doesn't apply to Mac Jones when he seems to make no progress on everything he's doing wrong (I don't really think taking him out down by 4 touchdowns in the 4th really counts and Bill more or less said as much).
I suspect the answer is indeed that there is no other option who isn't way worse, which I agree with, but again that just makes benching other players more silly.
The bolded cannot be stressed enough. With everything else that we've come to expect from a BB coached team, discipline seems to have been the hall mark of his Patriots teams. IMO the lack of discipline only magnifies the other faults of any team, even more so in the case of a team like New England that has so little going in it's favor.
Check out the Patriots drafts of the last 3-4 years and stop when you see an offensive tackle. I think that we drafted one 7th rounder a couple of years ago, that's it.
Teams will miss on guys of course, but they're not even trying.
Agreed and the constant turnover in the coaching staff compounds things on the offensive end of the equation.
Before Brady I used to say to my kids while watching a game the Patriots ought to hire a dance coach or somebody to work with Bledsoe on his foot movement. Remember that he was called a statue later in his career. Then Brady came along with no more foot speed than Drew but he had just what you said and was not a liability at all in that, or any regard. With Mac, we're back to Bledsoe but without the arm (and a lot else).
4th round this year since they announced Sow as a tackle.
They took a tackle every year since 2017.
2023- Sow in the 4th
2022- Steuber in the 7th
2021- Sherman in the 6th
2020- Herron in the 6th
2019- Cajuste in the 3rd
2018- Wynn in the 1st
2017- Garcia in the 3rd and McDermott in the 6th.
What they haven't done is taken a tackle in the 1st 2 rounds, but looking at the drafts... not a lot of tackles on the board at their picks that you'd say were bad misses, not even that many that wouldn't have been considered reaches. Tackles tend to fall into 2 categories in the draft... potential studs who go early 1st, and questionmarks who get scattered throughout the rest of the draft.
The Patriots take tackles just fine, in fact as many have pointed out, it is one of the positions Bill traditionally is very willing to take in the 1st, we just haven't been situated right for a few years.
They may have announced Sow as a tackle, but he's playing guard right next to Wendell Kim. Steuber/Sherman/Herron 7th/6th/6th. That's not investment, it's a shotgun approach with one pellet.
I was only looking back a few years. Agreed that there was a time when Bill spent higher picks on tackles.
It' is weird, because press are only there for warmups during the season (e.g. get an attendance report) . So to have beat writers seeing this seems... illogical.
Seems pretty logical to me that some player on defense would throw this out to friendly guys on the beat as their offensive woes continue.
I mean... you only have so many picks, especially in the premium rounds, which is what it seems like you want.
People complain that they don't invest in tackle, or WR, or.... etc. etc. You can only fill so many holes in the draft, and it's not like you have your choice of equal caliber talent at every position every pick.
The last 4 years they only have 8 early round picks (1st or 2nd), of those they only had 2 in the top 15. They went QB/CB with those 2, they went OL and traded out with the other 2 1sts (neither had a clear tackle option), for the 2nds... 3 defensive players and a WR. I don't really see any of those spots where there was a clear OT option that would have made that much sense.
I think there isn't much of a case for much complaint about the OT approach in the draft. They kept signing Trent Brown (who is good).. they had Wynn who was a 1st round pick, and until last year was pretty good (when not injured).
Up through 2021, the OT position looked good. You had Brown and Wynn as starters, you had a midround pick you liked in Cajuste, Herron who you developed and some deep depth development guys.
Things went sideways on them, but even going into this year... they signed a bunch of vets who were fringe starters... you don't usually draft fringe starters as rookies outside of very early picks.
If there is a better criticism of Bill at tackle it's that he didn't spend on one of the top guys this offseason (though even then, most of the top guys are struggling).
Even then, I don't think investment at tackle is a major problem, what has been has been injuries and evaluation. They like McDermott, he played pretty well last year... lost for the year. They brought in Reiff and Anderson to compete, both guys were servicable swing starters last year.... both tanked. They traded for a guy... he stinks.
They've invested in T fine... but just like many other places they've spent.... they've missed.
But we have no evidence of this.. just I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard that Mac was messing around
No, we have reports from beat writers that this is what happened. Breer is one guy who flat out stated defensive players were calling out Mac's mistakes in practice in frustration. I wouldn't take that as "a friend heard it from a friend who heard X". If you tell me X happened, I'm going to assume it came from someone who witnessed X.
Multiple things:
1) Yes OT is a lot of first rounders but there is a difference between a day 2 guy and Steuber. Cajuste was a tools guy who need reps to develop and he was injured. Garcia had that freak ailment.
2) Minor nitpick with Sherman who was drafted as an IOL. Sow also had the athleticism to play OT and did his freshman year but that’s still developmental and aspirational at best.
3) I have no problem with trying to find OT depth later. But when you are scraping the bottom of the barrel you get what you pay for usually. Depth is one thing. Starting caliber guys are another entirely.
4) There are plenty of OTs they could have hit on.
This is my own board for OT. Silver is a good fit. Could have taken Tyler Smith to play OG or OT at 21. Could have taken Raimann at 54. Could have taken Abe Lucas. These were good prospects. Raimann btw is killing it this year. And I was HIGH on Coke Strange! I might have taken Raimann at 29. I know he went in the third but in a redraft he isn’t getting out of the first now. You shouldn’t fill out OG when you have no future at OT. Just piss poor management.
Im fine with their approach to T this past off-season and if Gonzalez didn’t fall into their laps, perhaps things play out totally differently at the position. But going back to 2021, Cajuste was never healthy and when he did get opportunities he stunk, Herron was traded and Wynn couldn’t stay healthy.
I think they probably hoped Wynn could prove himself worthy of the 5th year option and that would buy them more time for a succession plan.
The league has changed a lot, OL talent is harder to find, rarely hits the open market and they don’t have Scar to “coach up” developmental projects. They need to invest premium draft capital in the until they have a quality OL. Wynn is the only premium pick they’ve spent on a tackle in a decade.
I like Gonzalez a lot and White is intriguing but going defense twice when the offense is almost (completely?) totally void of young or premium talent is frustrating. Then going with Mapu (again, another prospect I liked coming out of school), a kicker, punter and some developmental linemen. Each pick in a vacuum makes sense. Overall, the class was a win in terms of talent as far as I’m concerned. But the overall strategy feels outdated and out of touch with what the team needs to do to get back to the level of Miami, Buffalo, Cincy, KC etc.
I’m still on the “in BB we trust” wagon but wavering mightily and it really does feel that he believes he can consistently beat good teams with an offense that lacks premium talent by having a talented, well coached defense. I’m not sure that’s a winning and sustainable strategy in 2023. It’s a strategy that can keep you competitive in games and occasionally beat high octane offenses (see Cleveland and the Jets), I just don’t know that it works over a 20-21 game sample size (to win a Super Bowl) having to play 8+ games against elite offenses.
I feel like the Pats often draft these hybrid OL types (Wynn is the perfect example) for flexibility - ability to kick out to Tackle potentially, but floor is a guard. But history shows, IMO, that if you're a guy who comes into the draft and your calling card is that you can play OG and OT, you are a guard. You are not good enough to be a no-shit tackle in the league. You might be able to do so in a pinch, but your NFL position is guard. Is this your read on it too? I'm just trying to check my expectations whenever they pick these guys going forward b/c I can't remember the last successful tackle to enter the league with that label.
Rashawn Slater is probably the most high profile of the recent guys. Some saw Darnell Wright as an OG ideally but he is doing well so far at RT. I thought both guys were OTs coming out but for Slater a lot of folks were split.
FTFY. Mac isn't one-tenth the leader and football player that Drew Bledsoe was.
I agree it feels like position flexibility along the line has been a driver. It’s been true especially of mid rounders, but even the Strange conversation was how it was ok he maybe wasn’t properly strong enough for guard b/c he was probably going to be an athletic center.
It sure feels like there are guys that can play tackle and guys that can’t play tackle. If you’re set at tackle, having depth that can cover more than one position is great. When you don’t, just drafting a bunch of big dudes and thinking your coach will ‘get the best 5 guys’ out there seems risky. It kinda makes sense in a Scar/Brady world (where they still invested at LT!) but hasn’t worked here for a while.
One glaring similarity is that both Mac and Drew developed happy feet/fear of getting hit in the pocket which negatively affected their play.
Difference is, of course, that Drew only did so after years and years of accomplishments and pounding and actually having success. While Mac, uh, hasn't.
Drew's 3rd year in the NFL looks a lot like Mac's 3rd year, if not worse. That was coming off a 2nd season in which he led the NFL with 27 picks and 30 total turnovers.
It really wasn't until year 4 that he became what we would consider good during that time period. Which also coincided with Terry Glenn showing up and catching 90 balls as a rookie, Shawn Jefferson coming over from the Chargers and catching 50 balls, Martin/Meggett were into their 2nd years, Ben Coates being Ben Coates, and a young guy named Troy Brown who didn't do much, but started seeing more action.
In 1995, the Pats top 2 receivers were Vincent Brisby and Will Moore. They combined for 113 catches. In 1996, when Bledsoe turned the corner, they combined for 3 catches.
Bledsoe has more talent than Mac in his pinky, but even Drew couldn't do it alone.
I remember very clearly in the middle of Parcells' 3rd year Bob Ryan writing an article implying Parcells could be fired if he couldn't build on their improvements from Year 2.
Drew was what we would see as a turnover machine in his first few years but given the time period, throwing 25 TDs in his second year was incredibly impressive.
Given the way the rules favor the offense today, Mac's utter lack of production stands out even more. It's not just his supporting cast. Mac is incapable of playing. I honestly believe we could give Mac Justin Jefferson and he'd still be terrible because he has been found out by the league, doesn't haven't the physical tools to overcome tight coverage, and is mentally broken.
It would be best for all parties to divorce as soon as possible. There is no salvaging him.
Drew was what we would see as a turnover machine in his first few years but given the time period, throwing 25 TDs in his second year was incredibly impressive.
Given the way the rules favor the offense today, Mac's utter lack of production stands out even more. It's not just his supporting cast. Mac is incapable of playing. I honestly believe we could give Mac Justin Jefferson and he'd still be terrible because he has been found out by the league, doesn't haven't the physical tools to overcome tight coverage, and is mentally broken.
It would be best for all parties to divorce as soon as possible. There is no salvaging him.