The answer is some combination of:
No one - quite literally no one - is looking to move on from BB solely based on 2023.
There’s “slowly” and there’s “glacial”.
Seems fair to me. They will have cap space, know what they have in mac, hopefully some health, and a bunch of younger players who got a lot of experience this year.
Sorry my dude, if you think BB "deserves a chance" to rebuild the roster after he's been the one building the roster for two decades while ending up with the current roster that is complete garbage then I can't help you.
Bizarre to cite the two decades in a post decrying someone for considering more than just the last 20% of that stretch of time
McVay and Vrabel are not the GMs of their teams. Vrabel also wasn't the coach in 2017. There was also the departure of a certain GOAT which complicates this.
Agree with this, well said. He had his 4 year cycle to rebuild. It failed. Now he should get another 4 year cycle? I can see why some people would be ok with that given the history. I'm just not one of those people.
That might be for some/many people, but those aren't the reasons for me. I just think it's time to move on, particularly from BB as the GM. If I believed he'd allow a personnel director to come in and be the decision-maker, then I'd be fine with him continuing as coach to see if the arrangement could work.
I wasn't trolling if that's what you are implying. I just think that after looking at what he's done over the last four years and how absolutely terrible the current construction of the roster is with just two wins halfway through the season that it's time to let someone (GM+HC) else have a shot.
Teams often yo yo by year when they are at the top. The pats did this under Parcells before the super bowl year. With positive development from Mac and some injury luck, I could have seen this team winning 10 games this year. I do not think the roster is that bad. The Oline (now healthy) seems ok or moreso, running back has been ok but they need a real 3rd down back (why is Montgomery on the team?), TE seems ok. Next year they will have money to spend and decent draft picks. The key in all of this has been Mac.
But it's more then the roster. The team used to be legendary for it's situational awareness yet now they're committing stupid penalties and the special teams is a mess. It's thinking it's ok to put defensive coaches in charge of the offense. It's letting good offensive players walk and then signing crap like JuJu.
But even going back to the roster, rewind to 2021. His defensive signings were fine (Judon, Godchaux). His offensive signings were Henry, Agholor, Bourne, and Jonnu.
he’s a 2-7 coach with a below average roster after 4 years of rebuilding. I guess I don’t understand when you say youre not finding a better coach or GM. Unless he’s got a generational quarterback, he’s always been what’s he’s shown the last few years
One entire side of the ball is awful and the most important position on the team is awful. That tends to cancel out some of the above average players on defense
Is there a more overused SOSH word than elite? The defense was good against junk offenses in the last few years, but hardly elite in the playoff game against the Bills…and the best player on the defense isn’t terribly young, either. You aren’t going to win with a good defense and a garbage offense.
it takes more than 4 years to build an elite roster when you’re turning over almost all your premium talent including QB and don’t have top 5 picks
the entire offense is not “awful”. The RB, TE are adequate if not a little above average. No stars or Kittle/McCaffery types but certainly not bad. The OL with a healthy lineup of Brown/Strange/Andrews/Sow/Onwnenu is adequate. Not arguing these are elite units but hardly awful compared to most teams in the league.
the entire offense as a unit is awful, their offensive line is ok when they’re healthy, the guy who touches the ball every snap and the players he distributes it to, are mostly below average to bad. That adds up to one of the worst offenses in the league and the stats show it.
Its the word you use for top tier in the NFL. If you'd like to choose another, have at it. The defense overall is pretty young and mostly built from guys Bill drafted. 100% in agreement about not winning with a good defense and a crap offense. It just so happens we drafted a dud at the most important position in the sport. And here we are.
I’m not going to get into the weeds of responding because it’s not worth it, but how many of those guys you mentioned were first rounders, let alone top 5-10 picks?
Some posters feel that 6 Lombardis mean something when it comes to assessing the track record of the current GM. The fact that you chose not to take that into account (your perogative) does not mean that other posters here can chose to count titles.
But if you want to look at track record, why not just look at his record with and without Brady? If you want to base current and future performance off the past, at least look at the track record when he doesn’t have Brady, because that’s the circumstance that they’re in, right?
You are obviously free to vote how you want. My problem with the "with and without Brady" argument is that it assumes that the team was Brady and a bunch of Eugene Chungs and Leonard Russells when Brady was here. The players that were actually here during that unprecedented and likely unrepeatable era of success included Wilfork, Seymour, Light, Edelman, Gronk, and so on and so on.
Yeah, the "without Brady" stuff tends to suffer from a lot of analysis problems in particular the person using it rarely uses the baseline of "team without an elite QB", hence why people act like 2021 wasn't a good season... they made the playoffs with a mid-1st rookie QB... that's not something teams do very much, same with the 2020 team going 7-9 with the only QB they could get for backup money. There are plenty of things to be concerned about with personnel moves etc. over the last few years, but other than this year the results are not below expectation if people didn't have wildly unrealistic expectations. Most teams without QBs float around .500, there are rare exceptions, but if you looked at what most franchises would consider success, last year was the first one you could even make the case not being successful.
There were great players on every team he has assembled, just like on basically every team in the league. I think it’s clear as day that the operation ran smoothly with Brady regardless who was on the roster, that’s a huge difference. Every excuse to use as to why BB teams prior and post Brady not working, has happened in the 20 years of dominance as well, we just didn’t notice because having a dominant quarterback covers a lot of issues.
I don’t agree, as me using it in this context shows that the coach might not be as truly great and worth holding because of that resume alone. You saying making the playoffs is hard, is somewhat factual…I thought we were talking about the GOAT coach and GOAT system he’s implemented though. Is your standard now that he is like every other coach? When did that change, is really my point. He has HUGE samples of life with/without Brady, and they are not similar in the slightest. It’s pretty glaring
The rest of the roster was inarguably much better during most of not all of the Brady era.
they went to super bowls with Julian Edelman playing cornerback, they went to championship games yearly with anybody on the roster.
No. This season’s roster is barren of talent relative to just about any roster Brady had to work with.
I mean... not really. Coaches should be gauged by what they do versus expectation. 7-9 with broken Cam Newton and Hoyer is pretty impressive, 10-7 with a mediocre rookie QB is impressive, top rated defenses every year is impressive.
And you’d have no idea if that’s true unless 2010 Brady was quarterbacking this team. Maybe the roster is bad, so you have a mediocre coach and GM running your team, why keep him?
Because every singe NFL team goes through a rough season. And I’ve seen enough of receivers being unable to get open to be comfortable in my assessment of the roster.
I just highly disagree and think that is lowering the standards because of emotional ties. If he can’t do something that Mike Tomlin can do, which is constantly he over .500 with a horrible qb, or what Rex Ryan did, which was go to back to back Afccgs with Mark Sanchez, then what is special about him? You still call him an elite coach, yet the team is constantly committing backbreaking penalties in all 3 phases for years Now. What has shown you he’s still a great coach? Truly I’m wondering
Again, 2020 was rough, 2021 was solid, 2022 was rough, 2023 was rough. At what point will you realize the rebuild is going backwards? The rebuild has accomplished nothing. Why have your standards dropped? If I asked you 4 years ago where this team would be now, you’d expect them to be constant playoff contenders, hopefully making a run here and there…right?
Steelers last playoff win was 2016. Ryan missed the playoffs more times than he made it.
What coaches, if any, are special, then, and/or is your thesis that BB has been a fraud for like forty years?
and without Brady, the resume looks very similar right? When was the last time Pitt finished under .500? They’ve had qb issues since Ben left, they played with 2 horrible ones last year and finished above .500 and are solid this year. What’s the difference?
I don’t think he’s a fraud, I just don’t think falling back on somebody resume is a reason he should not be fired for the dumpster fire he created. Especially when we’ve seen what his team building accomplishes without a legendary qb.
I’ve tried making this point elsewhere. If the talent and coaching are both similar to the Steelers, then why is there any hesitation to letting Bill go?
