Incognito's audience isn't fans. It's other players and personnel people around the league. I think they will find the tweets far less offensive than the denizens of SoSH.
smastroyin said:Incognito's audience isn't fans. It's other players and personnel people around the league. I think they will find the tweets far less offensive than the denizens of SoSH.
smastroyin said:Incognito's audience isn't fans. It's other players and personnel people around the league. I think they will find the tweets far less offensive than the denizens of SoSH.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:does anyone else sometimes wonder if the part of guy's like Incognito's brain that makes him a meathead/dumbass is the same part of his brain that turns him from a large, resonably atheltic guy into a professional athlete?
I mean clearly there are are guys in the NFL that have just superior athleticism and god given talent, size, speed, etc... But I often wonder if there is a second group that does not have terribly large gap in their size and athletic ability vs their peers in college that never made it in the NFL. I imagine if the difference in this second group can't be measured physcially then it must be some mental difference.
It's an intersting question to think about. Is Richie Incognito a psycho because he is an overpaid pro athlete or is he an overpaid pro athlete because he is a pyscho?
veritas said:
No you're absolutely right. I've said this before (in trying to argue against the "ex football players have lots of personal problems must be from concussions" argument). But being a psychopath is a huge advantage on the field. These guys need to mentally get in a dark place every week to be at their best and 99% of normal people just can't relate. Professional football is a brutal game, it takes a lot more than skill to succeed.
And some people with "mean streaks" on the field are better at compartmentalizing. I remember listening to Tom Jackson - not a beloved figure here, but someone thoughtful and intelligent enough to have a 25-year career on air - talking about how he imagined his oppnents doing terrible things to his family to get himself psyched up, how he never helped an opponent up after a play, etc. That blew me away because it's so different than his post-playing career persona. But Incognito doesn't appear to have that off switch - he's a crazy meathead all the time.Marciano490 said:
I don't know that this is more true than stereotype. Different athletes succeed for different reasons across different sports. In sports like football, boxing and hockey some guys are great because of their mean streak, whereas others are amazing while remaining silent assassins. Obviously, football allows for more of the former than golf or even baseball, but saying that "being a psycopath is a huge advantage on the field" doesn't really ring true. For every Mankins and Incognito (and Mankins is much more mean than crazy), there's a Reggie White or Bruce Smith, and that's obviously ignoring all the cerebral QBs and LBs who obviously have a different temperament than linemen.
EvilEmpire said:Almost sounds like he knows the results of the investigation and feels like he doesn't have to hold back anymore.
Player A was a Dolphins offensive lineman. Like Martin, he is quiet and
unassuming. During his time with the team, Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey frequently
taunted Player A with homophobic insults. He often was called a “(SPAM filter)” or a “faggot” in a
demeaning tone. Incognito reportedly accused him of “sucking dick” and “pissing while
sitting down” and asked him “where’s your boyfriend?” Incognito acknowledged that
Player A, although not actually believed to be gay, was spoken to in this manner
repeatedly and persistently—he got it “every day from everybody, high frequency.”
In addition, Incognito and others acknowledged that Player A was
routinely touched by Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey in a mockingly suggestive manner,
including on his rear end, while being taunted about his supposed homosexuality.
Incognito specifically admitted that he would grab Player A and ask for a hug as part of
this “joke.”
~~~~
Dolphins’ Offensive Line Coach Jim Turner was aware of the running
“joke” that Player A was gay, and on at least one occasion, he participated in the
taunting. Around Christmas 2012, Coach Turner gave the offensive linemen gift bags
that included a variety of stocking stuffers. The gifts included inflatable female dolls for
all of the offensive linemen except Player A, who received a male “blow-up” doll.
Martin and another player reported that they were surprised Coach Turner did this;
Martin further said that he was offended that Turner had endorsed the humiliating
treatment of Player A by participating in it. Incognito and others agreed that this incident
with Coach Turner occurred. When interviewed, Turner was asked if he gave Player A a
male blow-up doll. He replied, “I can’t remember.” We do not believe that Turner
forgot this incident, which many others recalled.
Ed Hillel said:I've only read the first 5 pages, and it's clear that the Dolphins are fucked. Sheriff Roger is about to come a knockin', that's for sure.
RedOctober3829 said:Incognito and Pouncey are screwed.
Ralphwiggum said:Yeah, so, Incognito's victory lap on Twitter may have been a bit premature?
Ed Hillel said:
It's ok, he had Pouncey delete them so you can forget that ever happened. Seriously, that aspect of destroying evidence, or at least attempting to, is probably going to piss Goddell off as much as anything.
Also , "Hear your sister has a wolf-puss. A fat, hairy pussy."
EDIT:We believe Incognito’s concerns were well founded—not because the fine book would be “misunderstood,” but because, viewed in context, it would prove that Incognito was fully aware that the verbal taunting
had caused Martin to break emotionally. Incognito’s attempt to destroy the fine book is a classic example of evidence demonstrating “consciousness of wrongdoing.”
Shelterdog said:
No, everything makes a ton of sense. RI was a total asshole to Martin , Martin didn't handle it like a tough guy is supposed to, Martin aired the dirty laundry and the teammates are rallying around RI because (a) fuck Martin, he quit the team, and (b) we're all macho NFL men who don't spill dirt on each other. Case closed.
mascho said:
Here's a press release that summarizes the report, basically the tl;dr version.
http://63bba9dfdf9675bf3f10-68be460ce43dd2a60dd64ca5eca4ae1d.r37.cf1.rackcdn.com/PressRelease_February2014.pdf
EDIT: An excerpt from the report regarding the abuse directed towards an Assistant Trainer.
“Jap” and “Chinaman.” At times, according to Martin, they referred to the Assistant Trainer as a “dirty communist” or a “North Korean,” made demands such as “give me some water you fucking chink,” spoke to him in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for “rubby rubby sucky sucky,”
For example, he claimed that on the practice field, Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey would call his sister a “squirter” and then squirt water onto the field from their water bottles, and that while engaged in certain
warm up stretching exercises, they would simulate having sex with his sister. The evidence confirmed these allegations.
Incognito also insulted Martin in person and in text messages with other racially charged language, including referring to Martin as a “liberal mulatto bitch,” “stinky Pakistani,” “shine box” and “darkness.”
I'm still waiting for someone to make the "pro-Incognito" case....
Average Reds said:I'm still waiting for someone to make the "pro-Incognito" case....
Average Reds said:I'm still waiting for someone to make the "pro-Incognito" case....
If the FO and Philbin didn't know, I don't suspect much puntive action will be directed against the team.
mascho said:Ouch. Just got the to "Fine Book" stuff. Incognito is fucked.
At first Incognito claimed that he did not know why he had been fined for “breaking Jmart,” but upon being told that the notations appeared to be in his handwriting, Incognito did not dispute that “breaking Jmart” meant causing Martin to have an emotional reaction in response to taunting.
Ed Hillel said:Man, it's really hard reading these emails to and from Martin with his parents. You can tell there's a part of him that wanted to punch those guys in their faces, but deep down he just wasn't a violent and confrontational guy, and it caused him a lot of mental anguish. You'd have to think Martin is a bit of an outlier in the alpha-male football locker room, but I hope and think this will be a big eye-opener and facilitate some change. This is painful and unacceptable, and a huge organizational failure as a whole. The report says a lot of this shit happened in front of teammates, and nobody did a thing to stop it. I have to believe that someone knew Martin wasn't taking it well, and it seems they knew he had issues, and continued to press. It's despicable. It may be an NFL locker room, but it's not Kindergarten.
Reverend said:
it also sounds like Incognito was so far outside his element once a real life investigation occurred where he's not in charge anymore. I loved this:
"How would I know?"
"You wrote it."
"Oh."
The twitter rant the other day gets weirder and weirder in the context of the fact that they had evidence that falls about a hair short of a full confession.
mascho said:Ouch. Just got the to "Fine Book" stuff.Incognito isThe Dolphins are fucked.
11. Turner’s Pressuring of Martin to Defend Incognito
On November 2, after media stories appeared alleging that Martin had been bullied by Incognito, Coach Turner began sending Martin text messages that urged him to defend Incognito in a public statement. Martin responded to one, but then stopped communicating with Turner, who continued to pressure him to “DO THE RIGHT THING” for several days afterward, as shown below:
November 2, 2013:
Turner: Richie incognito is getting hammered on national TV. This is not right. You could put an end to all the rumors with a simple statement. DO THE RIGHT THING. NOW.
Martin: Coach. I want to put out a statement. Believe me I do. This thing has become such a huge story somehow. But I’ve been advised not to... And I’m not supposed to text anyone either cuz last time I responded to a teammate (Richie) I was intentionally manipulated and the conversation was immediately forwarded to a reporter.
Turner: He is protecting himself. He has been beat up for 4 days. Put an end to this. You are a grown man. Do the right thing
Turner: John I want the best for you and your health but make a statement and take the heat off Richie and the lockerroom. This isn’t right.
November 3, 2013:
Turner: I know you are a man of character. Where is it?
November 6, 2013:
Turner: It is never to late to do the right thing!
Turner sent these text messages to Martin knowing that Martin had hospitalized himself in connection with a mental health condition, and in the face of public reports indicating that Martin’s emotional condition may have been a reaction to his teammates’ bullying and abusive behavior.
Ed Hillel said:Man, it's really hard reading these emails to and from Martin with his parents. You can tell there's a part of him that wanted to punch those guys in their faces, but deep down he just wasn't a violent and confrontational guy, and it caused him a lot of mental anguish. You'd have to think Martin is a bit of an outlier in the alpha-male football locker room, but I hope and think this will be a big eye-opener and facilitate some change. This is painful and unacceptable, and a huge organizational failure as a whole. The report says a lot of this shit happened in front of teammates, and nobody did a thing to stop it. I have to believe that someone knew Martin wasn't taking it well, and it seems they knew he had issues, and continued to press. It's despicable. It may be an NFL locker room, but it's not Kindergarten.
I haven't gotten through the whole thing, but I'm already having a difficult time figuring out exactly how they couldn't have known. And if they didn't, it's certainly a failure on their part to have any sort of pulse on their organization. I'd have to think it's the former.
Player B: Especially if u plan living in Arizona in the future, that’s exactly what you want
Incognito: Yea. For picking off zombies 32
Player B: Lol isn’t that why we own any weapons!?
Incognito: That and black people
Player B: Mmm def all black ppl Four days later, Incognito and
Player B: discussed rifle scopes in text messages.
Player B: Yes. That’s a solid optic made specifically for a .308 battle rifle
Incognito: Perfect for shooting black people
Player B: Lol exactly
Player B: Or Jeff Ireland
Jettisoned said:Incognito comes off as a for real psychopath in this report. They're asking him about all this stuff, and he's confirming all of it and he clearly just doesn't get what a horrible asshole he was being.
mascho said:Jesus. Maybe this also belongs in the Future of Football thread, but...Jesus.
Ralphwiggum said:Yeah, so, Incognito's victory lap on Twitter may have been a bit premature?
Well in their defense wouldn't it be hard to be jumping to a conclusion if the facts were already out there?Average Reds said:
As were several posters here who assumed in recent days that Incognito would be vindicated.
Why people don't wait for actual facts to come out before they jump to conclusions is mystifying to me.
Average Reds said:
As were several posters here who assumed in recent days that Incognito would be vindicated.
Why people don't wait for actual facts to come out before they jump to conclusions is mystifying to me.
nocode51 said:Following his first meeting with the team-affiliated psychiatrist, Martin
began taking Lexapro and meeting with the doctor once a week. Although the first
meeting occurred in the doctor’s office, we were told by Martin that subsequent visits
occurred at the psychiatrist’s home, sometimes with the doctor’s wife present. Martin
reported that he typically brought his dog to play in the doctor’s yard, and sometimes
they grilled steaks. These meetings were informal, and Martin did not regard them as
therapeutic. According to Martin, he viewed the doctor as a friend, but felt that the
doctor could not relate well to him because the doctor was 84 years old. Martin said he
did not tell the doctor that he felt harassed by other players because he was afraid that the
doctor might relay that to the team, in which case he would be marked as a “snitch.”
"In addition, also on November 1, hours after Incognito wrote, “I’m here for you my dude” to Martin, Incognito exchanged the following text messages with Pouncey:
Incognito: Fuck Jmart That faggot is never [allowed] back
Pouncey: Bro I said the same thing I can’t even look at him the same he’s a pussy
Incognito: My agent just asked if we held mandatory strip club meetings Jmart is fucking ratting on everyone
Pouncey: Lol wow are you serious he is a fuck boy
Pouncey: He’s not welcome back bro I can’t be around that fucking guy
Incognito: Fuck that guy if Ur not with s Ur against us
Pouncey: No question bro he’s a coward for snitching
Incognito: Snitches get stitches Blood in blood out Fucking guy
Pouncey: He’s dead to me
soxfan121 said:
I'm re-reading the thread now and I have to note how horribly, stupidly wrong I was about Joe Philbin. I was unfair, jumped to inappropriate conclusions, ripped him for being bad or clueless at his job...basically, I treated Joe Philbin like Red Sox fans treated Roger Clemens.
In retrospect, I probably should have heeded the post by kenneycb that said being an NFL head coach is a fucking busy job. Philbin comes out of the Wells report largely clean and I was wrong.
uncannymanny said:Surprised this hasn't come up yet...an hour after the "hey buddy" texts between Incognito and Martin there's this exchange between Incognito and Pouncey:
Jettisoned said:So this is rather suspicious:
I do not know how doctor-patient confidentiality works in this case. Is it possible that this psychiatrist was skirting around the law using informal meetings so that he could relay information to Dolphins management?