Not saying they should or would do it but the other avenue is keeping TL, which they probably need to do given KP's situation, and sending out both Brogdon and White, potentially to different teams with the return and some Celtics picks going to Portland. Lillard replaces White in the starting lineup and Brad would have to find some more offense to replace what you'd be losing with Brogdon off the bench.Putting aside whether either team wants to do it value/fit wise, cap-wise the only realistic configuration I can come up with would be Brogdon (headed presumably to a third team), Time Lord (who doesn't especially fit in Portland), Pritchard, Kornet, Hauser, and Quetta (or whoever at end of bench for contract ballast). Plus a bunch of picks presumably.
That would leave Celts super thin, among other things, like this not really making sense for Portland.
As always, I could be wrong but Jaylen resigning makes this really, really, really hard to see for me...not that it ever was likely or made sense.
Am I missing some viable way to get the salaries to work, or are we just dealing with baseless rumors that haven't even done the math?
So just to add to this. Tatum and Dame would be ABSURD together offensively, they are two of the most aggressively defended guys in the league. Jaylen/KP would feast playing off of them.Its almost certainly not happening but imo the only two parties that should have any questions about a Lillard trade to Boston are the Blazers and Dame. If you can put him alongside Tatum and Brown, you do it.
Alternatives would be Brogdon and White or Brogdon, Horford, and Timelord. The former would require an additional player for cap purposes, but not inclusion of all our min contracts).Putting aside whether either team wants to do it value/fit wise, cap-wise the only realistic configuration I can come up with would be Brogdon (headed presumably to a third team), Time Lord (who doesn't especially fit in Portland), Pritchard, Kornet, Hauser, and Quetta (or whoever at end of bench for contract ballast). Plus a bunch of picks presumably.
That would leave Celts super thin, among other things, like this not really making sense for Portland.
As always, I could be wrong but Jaylen resigning makes this really, really, really hard to see for me...not that it ever was likely or made sense.
Am I missing some viable way to get the salaries to work, or are we just dealing with baseless rumors that haven't even done the math?
Probably does…Yeah I think White going out makes more sense on multiple fronts if this deal were even a possibility.
It is for me if the guy coming back is Damian Lillard. Defense suffers. Offense greatly benefits and you probably net out better. It would definitely change the dynamic of the team though. But I always side with elite offensive talent over chemistry/defense.Probably does…
Though white is really good and can defend.
Losing Smart and White is not the most exciting proposition in the same offseason.
I can’t even imagine what Dame or Tatum would do when not consistently facing a loaded up defense. The defense will have to make a choice, and the other guy will just destroy.It is for me if the guy coming back is Damian Lillard. Defense suffers. Offense greatly benefits and you probably net out better. It would definitely change the dynamic of the team though. But I always side with elite offensive talent over chemistry/defense.
If you're bringing in Lillard then it would be White and Brogdon heading out to other teams to provide the ballast. I still don't see it.Putting aside whether either team wants to do it value/fit wise, cap-wise the only realistic configuration I can come up with would be Brogdon (headed presumably to a third team), Time Lord (who doesn't especially fit in Portland), Pritchard, Kornet, Hauser, and Quetta (or whoever at end of bench for contract ballast). Plus a bunch of picks presumably.
That would leave Celts super thin, among other things, like this not really making sense for Portland.
As always, I could be wrong but Jaylen resigning makes this really, really, really hard to see for me...not that it ever was likely or made sense.
Am I missing some viable way to get the salaries to work, or are we just dealing with baseless rumors that haven't even done the math?
The shot making of a Tatum, Brown, KP, Lillard lineup would simply be insane. And you'd have an ice cold closer as well. I get the concerns about age, defense, etc. but those factors are the only reason why he's even available. 27 year-old Dame is untouchable. I remember people being concerned about the Pats acquiring Moss and I was like, "umm...let me see Brady with a guy like Moss and find out". I feel the same about Dame. If you can get him for guys like White, Brogdon, TL, you do it.I can’t even imagine what Dame or Tatum would do when not consistently facing a loaded up defense. The defense will have to make a choice, and the other guy will just destroy.
When evaluating players, I think people significantly underrate just how much harder it is to put up numbers as the lead guy.
I'm sure I would talk my self into it quickly.... but I'm not entirely sure it's a homerun with White involved.If you're holding onto all three of Tatum, Brown, and Porzingis, absolutely give it a shot with Dame. Picks with light protection. Get it done, Theo.
If we call that 1.7 vs 4 DPM, that's a pretty big difference. The NBA happens at the margin, and that's a huge marginal upgrade, particularly on offense, where you get a cascading benefit adding someone like Lillard to Tatum/Brown/KP.I'm sure I would talk my self into it quickly.... but I'm not entirely sure it's a homerun with White involved.
White is very good and fits well (Dame fits in his own way I suppose). DW at 2/35M + X extension vs Dame at his age and contract. I dunno...
If it leads to a title in 2023-2024 then if course sign me up, but I guess I just like White a lot and the current team we've got.
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I love Derrick too. Would absolutely suck to lose more glue guys, and you need people who just make super smart decisions at all times. But we're talking about adding a guy who's so good offensively that he's a borderline top-10 player despite playing garbage defense and having no supporting cast whatsoever. He's a .645 TS% last year at 33.8% USG%. He's a unicorn.I'm sure I would talk my self into it quickly.... but I'm not entirely sure it's a homerun with White involved.
White is very good and fits well (Dame fits in his own way I suppose). DW at 2/35M + X extension vs Dame at his age and contract. I dunno...
If it leads to a title in 2023-2024 then if course sign me up, but I guess I just like White a lot and the current team we've got.
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I would HATE to lose White, but I think this nails it. Lillard is a stone cold shotmaker and closer, and I think JT has enough reverence/respect for Dame to recognize that he would be the guy to get the ball in those close and late situations.The shot making of a Tatum, Brown, KP, Lillard lineup would simply be insane. And you'd have an ice cold closer as well. I get the concerns about age, defense, etc. but those factors are the only reason why he's even available. 27 year-old Dame is untouchable. I remember people being concerned about the Pats acquiring Moss and I was like, "umm...let me see Brady with a guy like Moss and find out". I feel the same about Dame. If you can get him for guys like White, Brogdon, TL, you do it.
Obviously, this remains unlikely but I'll be interested in a potential deal for as long as he remains a Blazer.
Weren't there reports over the summer that Tatum was trying to selling Dame on Boston, with no luck?Tangentially….
If the Celtics are major players here, does Brad run this by Tatum (and Jaylen)? Ask their opinion?
Would be such a major move, but also tricky to let the players even know about it. They’re obviously friends with the guys potentially involved. Always kinda wondered how that stuff goes down.
I get the sense he at least superficially gets Tatum’s approval on something like this, even if he doesn’t let him know the details in advance.
Tatum has apparently been recruiting Dame all summer, so he’s probably in favor of it.Tangentially….
If the Celtics are major players here, does Brad run this by Tatum (and Jaylen)? Ask their opinion?
Would be such a major move, but also tricky to let the players even know about it. They’re obviously friends with the guys potentially involved. Always kinda wondered how that stuff goes down.
I get the sense he at least superficially gets Tatum’s approval on something like this, even if he doesn’t let him know the details in advance.
This has me wondering if he checked with Tatum before sending Smart out. I haven't heard anything on that.Tangentially….
If the Celtics are major players here, does Brad run this by Tatum (and Jaylen)? Ask their opinion?
Would be such a major move, but also tricky to let the players even know about it. They’re obviously friends with the guys potentially involved. Always kinda wondered how that stuff goes down.
I get the sense he at least superficially gets Tatum’s approval on something like this, even if he doesn’t let him know the details in advance.
I haven’t either.This has me wondering if he checked with Tatum before sending Smart out. I haven't heard anything on that.
I would think it’s highly unlikely he ran that by Tatum. Smart was pretty beloved by his teammates and I think Brad would recognize emotions would run raw with that tradeI haven’t either.
Seemed like the whole Brogdon/Smart trade stuff got shaken up last minute (even if the leg work was done before) so maybe didn’t have time to anyway.
Huh? Hayward suffered a catastrophic injury and Kemba had a degenerative knee injury. Brogdon tore a ligament in his elbow. Not sure what you can do about any of those situations.Why does this gambit scare me ? Simple. Can he stay healthy?
The trends of Celtics picking up stars who hold up to the rigours of the Garden is less than stellar.
Gordon Hayward,
Kemba Walker,
Kyrie Irving (a special case),
Brodgon (couldn't make it through the playoffs),
KP (do you really think his feet won't be an issue?)
Al H is the only notable exception!
Thus: swapping out a durable DW for an aging Lillard could have more downside that upside; since the Celts are
a championship quality machine as is IF THEY STAY HEALTHY.
FYI:
Lillard games played
22-23: 58,
21-22: 29,
20-21: 67
19-20 : 66
18-19 : 80
(before that he was always over 73)
Kemba walker
22-23: 9,
21-22: 37,
20-21: 43
19-20 : 56
18-19 : 82
Sounds like they are due for regression (in a good direction) when it comes to health luckHuh? Hayward suffered a catastrophic injury and Kemba had a degenerative knee injury. Brogdon tore a ligament in his elbow. Not sure what you can do about any of those situations.
FYI:
Lillard games played
22-23: 58,
21-22: 29,
20-21: 67
19-20 : 66
18-19 : 80
(before that he was always over 73)
Kemba walker
22-23: 9,
21-22: 37,
20-21: 43
19-20 : 56
18-19 : 82
Lillard's injury history isn't particularly daunting, he's just an aging small guard. He missed 90 games over the last 5 years, but his only serious injury was in 2022, a "lingering abdominal injury." He missed just 13 games from 2019-2021, and 14 games last year through late March, at which point the Blazers sat him because their season was over. His concerns are the same as Curry, whose missed 44 games over the last 2 years.I don't know much about Lillard's injury history, but doing this games played thing to evaluate injuries is likely too non-specific in this situation to be helpful.
Kemba had multiple knee surgeries, partial meniscectomies, and (at least in retrospect we know) bad arthritis in his knee. A guy like that is going to be toast sooner rather than later.
Lillard's games played don't mean much in a vacuum. It matters why he missed the games and which injuries he had. Some heal just fine, others (like arthritis) are just going to get worse over time.
That's sort of what I figured.Lillard's injury history isn't particularly daunting, he's just an aging small guard.
It should be a distant memory just with Porzingis on board. Add Lillard? Holy god that's unreal offensively. And if you have a defensive guy in the mix to those four, that's still plenty of D to go along with insane O.Just having Tatum and Dame on the floor at the same time would cause so much chaos. They would instantly have two of the top five-ish gravity creators in the entire league.
Remember all of those stretches where Tatum and Brown are struggling and the Cs are searching for another consistent source of points? Those are likely a faint memory with Dame in the fold.
So yeah, this is a no brainer for Boston from where I sit, even if it costs both Brogdon and White.
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Who's in the tub on the left?
I think it increases the urgency a bit of using Brogdon + picks to upgrade, yeah.Does the pressure to upgrade the team (mostly Brogdon) to compete with the Dame/Giannis Bucks kick in now? Not panic trade but a new urgency to make the roster as good as it can be?