Week 14

tims4wins

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Any reason why tonight's games start at the same time?
I asked my brother about this last night (he works for ESPN). He said with the weeks they have had multiple MNF games, they are experimenting with different start times to see what draws the most combined ratings. I think he said the first week they had 2 games they started them an hour apart, then the second week they did the same but flipped the networks (so if the ABC game started an hour earlier the first week, the ESPN game started an hour earlier the second week).
 

Jungleland

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It's not going to seriously impact how I view Mahomes a week from now and I don't give a shit about him griping in the handshake line, but the 'impact Kelce's HOF career' line is hilariously pathetic.

And I hate to say it, but I still think they're going to be in the Super Bowl. The defense is legit and they're finally realizing the passing game needs to funnel through Rice. Get Pacheco healthy, finally unwrap McKinnon from bubble wrap as another plus receiving option, and they're as good a bet as anyone in the AFC imo.
 

Remagellan

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Mahomes getting killed nationally for the crybaby act, especially since he got caught on the hot mic complaining to Josh Allen after the game. I get that they're frustrated because they've had several games go against them with big drops, and last week they didn't get the DPI call when they should've, but come on there was no doubt he was offsides, this wasn't a bang bang play.

The fact that they lost an AFC title game and a game with what would have been an all time play with pre snap penalties is pretty ironic.
I like Mahomes and understand why he was upset, but it is graceless to complain about how the officiating cost your team the game in the ears of the other team's QB as you are congratulating them! Why bother congratulating your opponent if all you have to offer them is "we wuz robbed!"
 

tims4wins

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And I hate to say it, but I still think they're going to be in the Super Bowl. The defense is legit and they're finally realizing the passing game needs to funnel through Rice. Get Pacheco healthy, finally unwrap McKinnon from bubble wrap as another plus receiving option, and they're as good a bet as anyone in the AFC imo.
The AFC playoffs are going to be super interesting. I agree that it feels like KC will get there despite it being a "down" year. If 2 of KC, Miami, and Baltimore make the AFCCG it should be a great game.
 

trekfan55

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There's enough legitimate complaints about NFL officiating, this was a good call.
I have no idea why Mahomes would or should complain. He had a much better case las week (like it was pointed out).

That being said, they have lost several games on key plays, or misplays, when they have usually gone their way. Maybe it's the playmakers they miss or maybe it's just things evening out.

And yeah, I would not be so quick as to dismiss them from being back in the Super Bowl.
 

Remagellan

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It's not going to seriously impact how I view Mahomes a week from now and I don't give a shit about him griping in the handshake line, but the 'impact Kelce's HOF career' line is hilariously pathetic.

And I hate to say it, but I still think they're going to be in the Super Bowl. The defense is legit and they're finally realizing the passing game needs to funnel through Rice. Get Pacheco healthy, finally unwrap McKinnon from bubble wrap as another plus receiving option, and they're as good a bet as anyone in the AFC imo.
I agree with a lot of this, but they are going to have to go on the road this year, and that might make a difference.

That said, I won't trust Lamar in the playoffs until he actually shows he can win a couple of games in the playoffs.

The Dolphins are frauds until proven otherwise.

The Bengals don't have Burrow, so we'll have to see about Browning in the playoffs should they make it.

The Bills have their own playoff questions, but if they get in, they will have to be seen as dangerous.
 

Auger34

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Apparently Mahomes wanted the ref to tell Toney he's offside prior to the snap. That's not a ref's job, Pat.
I think the receiver has to "ask" the ref (that thing we see almost every play where they point at the line judge) and then they will let them know. If Toney didn't do that, that's 100% on him.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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I asked my brother about this last night (he works for ESPN). He said with the weeks they have had multiple MNF games, they are experimenting with different start times to see what draws the most combined ratings. I think he said the first week they had 2 games they started them an hour apart, then the second week they did the same but flipped the networks (so if the ABC game started an hour earlier the first week, the ESPN game started an hour earlier the second week).
Interesting. Thanks.
 

TFisNEXT

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That was Dallas' rep coming into this game.
Yep. Philly was the gritty “know how to win” team. But that’s typically code for “you’re getting pretty lucky winning a ton of close games and the chickens are gonna come home to roost at some point”…last two weeks have had the chickens coming home to roost for Philly.

That said, if they can fix their defense before the playoffs, they’ll still be a very dangerous team.
 

TFisNEXT

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I agree with a lot of this, but they are going to have to go on the road this year, and that might make a difference.

That said, I won't trust Lamar in the playoffs until he actually shows he can win a couple of games in the playoffs.

The Dolphins are frauds until proven otherwise.

The Bengals don't have Burrow, so we'll have to see about Browning in the playoffs should they make it.

The Bills have their own playoff questions, but if they get in, they will have to be seen as dangerous.
Agreed. The Bills could legitimately beat any team if Allen brings his A game…they’d be super dangerous if they can find a way in.
 

Auger34

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He may have Kelce but his receivers and RBs are probably the worst of his career.

Edit; mahomes has also been really careless with the ball imo.. throwing a lot of passes into too tight of a window or just trying to be too cute or just looping things too lazily. He’s been extremely turnover prone.
I don't think that's true. I mean they are definitely better than even last year because Pacheco has improved.
 

Jungleland

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I think all three NFC powerhouses are better teams than any of the AFC field, but not by so much that the AFC rep won't have a chance.

Would love to see Balt hold on for the bye and both KC and Miami get bounced early. I'm going to be good with any of the other 12 playoff teams winning it all.

I don't think that's true. I mean they are definitely better than even last year because Pacheco has improved.
Yep - Pacheco is great (though he kind of ascended there during the playoff run) and I think McKinnon is still the same player he was last year, just has been underutilized to this point. The sweet irony in discussing their offensive woes on this board is that they really miss Juju (though I think his struggles this year are health/being cooked as much as they are Patriot QBs, so I'm not sure the '23 version helps).
 

BaseballJones

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PIilly seems to be front runners and a soft team. Dallas is killing them.
Philly as front runners? They had a big comeback against Buffalo. They were down against Dallas and came back to win their first matchup. They were down 24-17 in the fourth quarter against Washington and came back to win that game. They were tied against Miami in the third quarter before putting them away. They were tooth and nail with Washington in their first game and it went to OT and Philly pulled that one out.

They have had multiple dogfight victories this year, including several significant comebacks. This is the NFL - sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
 

lars10

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I don't think that's true. I mean they are definitely better than even last year because Pacheco has improved.
You may be right.. i have Pacheco on two fantasy teams so I watch him every week and he’s been hit or miss.. and I thought he’s had better receiving RBs but I’ll have to look. Their RBs aren’t asked to do as much because Mahomes is such sn effective weapon running.
 

lars10

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I guess it is a free play for the defense, just like defensive offsides is a free play for the offense. That seems fair. The defense gets the choice to take the penalty or the result of the play.
I can see a scenario where that wouldn’t be the case.. how about if an offensive side needed to waste a few seconds and just lined up their entire receiving core majorly offsides.. would play be stopped for illegal formation? Or would the play still run? It would be a scenario that nobody has seen so im not sure what would happen.. I’m probably missing something…but it feels like it could be used somehow that would help the offense.
 

Auger34

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Of course, Toney tried to cover his ass and said he did ask, which is working on some Chiefs fans.
Yup. Toney deserves 0 benefit of the doubt. The guy has all of the talent in the world but has a 10 cent head (although that may be too generous honestly)
 

Sandwich Pick

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Yup. Toney deserves 0 benefit of the doubt. The guy has all of the talent in the world but has a 10 cent head (although that may be too generous honestly)
That point doesn't get discussed enough in this whole thing. How many mental mistakes/ unforced errors had he made this season alone?

He should be thankful MVS is on his team and taking away some of that spotlight.
 

SoxFanInPdx

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Never cared for Mahomes to begin with. This solidifies what I've always thought he is. A whiny, entitled player who has had a lot of things handed to him. Reminds me a lot of prime ARod in that you cannot debate the amazing talent, but that personality is just as fake as press-on nails.

That said, with all the talk of their issues at WR, that secondary is vastly overrated. They hold and grab more than any other secondary I've seen in some time. The AFC is wide open, but this Chiefs team has so many flaws that I think Baltimore may just beat this team come the playoffs. Also, its a shame that Burrow is out for the season because this would have set up pretty nicely for them.
 

Justthetippett

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Never cared for Mahomes to begin with. This solidifies what I've always thought he is. A whiny, entitled player who has had a lot of things handed to him. Reminds me a lot of prime ARod in that you cannot debate the amazing talent, but that personality is just as fake as press-on nails.

That said, with all the talk of their issues at WR, that secondary is vastly overrated. They hold and grab more than any other secondary I've seen in some time. The AFC is wide open, but this Chiefs team has so many flaws that I think Baltimore may just beat this team come the playoffs. Also, its a shame that Burrow is out for the season because this would have set up pretty nicely for them.
It's fun to root against Mahomes but aside from his sideline tiptoeing I've never had any real issue with how he carries or conducts himself. The guy is an awesome player. He let his emotions fly yesterday, and hopefully cools off now. He's going through adversity this year. The flaws make these guys interesting.
 

Silverdude2167

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Never cared for Mahomes to begin with. This solidifies what I've always thought he is. A whiny, entitled player who has had a lot of things handed to him. Reminds me a lot of prime ARod in that you cannot debate the amazing talent, but that personality is just as fake as press-on nails.

That said, with all the talk of their issues at WR, that secondary is vastly overrated. They hold and grab more than any other secondary I've seen in some time. The AFC is wide open, but this Chiefs team has so many flaws that I think Baltimore may just beat this team come the playoffs. Also, its a shame that Burrow is out for the season because this would have set up pretty nicely for them.
He is a young Farve, great arm talent, but also knows it so he tries to make throws he should not.

In the past, it worked because he was also throwing to great playmakers, but now throwing to subpar talent, those tight windows are even tighter.
 

johnmd20

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He is a young Farve, great arm talent, but also knows it so he tries to make throws he should not.

In the past, it worked because he was also throwing to great playmakers, but now throwing to subpar talent, those tight windows are even tighter.
Come on. Now people are losing their minds.

INTs are down a lot over the years, but Mahomes has the 4th lowest INT percentage of ALL TIME. 1.7% versus Favre's 3.3%. It's better than Brady's. Dak's. Burrow's. Josh Allen and Stafford at 2.4%.

Better than everyone in history but Rodgers, Brissett, and Tyrod. And you can throw Tyrod and Brissett out.
 

NortheasternPJ

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All 22 of the offsides:

View: https://twitter.com/Shauncore/status/1734071439869788421?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1734071439869788421%7Ctwgr%5E5948a8bda1798ee4e034db254dd60dc2f0726dd7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chiefsplanet.com%2FBB%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D351324page%3D8


He's really not even close. I'm not sure how a professional WR does that. I don't think I've ever seen someone line up that far offsides. Also he doesn't bother to check with the officials.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah... Mahomes is the best QB in the league, he had a little tantrum yesterday because he's frustrated by his WRs just imploding this season and he knows enough not to blame his teammates so he blamed the refs.

I dislike the sideline tiptoes, but until the league stops it... it's legal, and well it's a very Patriots dynasty style exploitation of a rule.

I really don't get the idea that he's somehow been "handed everything"... he was a 3 start recruit, he played for a crap Texas Tech team so well he got his terrible coach a job in the NFL (where Kliff was terrible), sat for his first year, then beat out the starter to get the job year 2, since which time he's been a great QB.
 

tims4wins

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Come on. Now people are losing their minds.

INTs are down a lot over the years, but Mahomes has the 4th lowest INT percentage of ALL TIME. 1.7% versus Favre's 3.3%. It's better than Brady's. Dak's. Burrow's. Josh Allen and Stafford at 2.4%.

Better than everyone in history but Rodgers, Brissett, and Tyrod. And you can throw Tyrod and Brissett out.
While true, era matters. Brady's was 1.5% from 2007-2022.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Yeah... Mahomes is the best QB in the league, he had a little tantrum yesterday because he's frustrated by his WRs just imploding this season and he knows enough not to blame his teammates so he blamed the refs.

I dislike the sideline tiptoes, but until the league stops it... it's legal, and well it's a very Patriots dynasty style exploitation of a rule.

I really don't get the idea that he's somehow been "handed everything"... he was a 3 start recruit, he played for a crap Texas Tech team so well he got his terrible coach a job in the NFL (where Kliff was terrible), sat for his first year, then beat out the starter to get the job year 2, since which time he's been a great QB.
Cap Hits Next Year;

Mahomes - $57m
Kelce - $15.5m
Thuney - $27m
Jawaan Taylor - $25m

I'm sure they can move money around but not a lot of money to fill out a roster of stud WR's with 4 guys making about 60% of the cap.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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He’s a competitive guy that has been pretty good with the media, and had a bad night.

I hate that team, so I've always hated Mahomes. Somehow, seeing him throw a hissy fit and being a bit of a baby last night was one of the first times that I've kind of liked him.

Bitching about it to Allen was maybe my favorite part. Allen was probably like, "whatever dude, we would have scored a TD anyway."

"Let the players on the field" decide it is so dumb that I'm sure he's sitting there this morning feeling like a jackass. The players on the field did decide it -- Toney decided it. Idiot. But I'm good with Pat. I think deep down they are are all narcistic assholes. It's fine when they remind us.
 

Cellar-Door

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Cap Hits Next Year;

Mahomes - $57m
Kelce - $15.5m
Thuney - $27m
Jawaan Taylor - $25m

I'm sure they can move money around but not a lot of money to fill out a roster of stud WR's with 4 guys making about 60% of the cap.
They don't need stud WRs, they need professionals instead of guys they added for physical traits who can't catch or run routes. They did just fine with the Juju's of the world. They swung for trying to find a new Tyreek Hill a couple times and got a bunch of Tyquan Thorntons.

As to Cap, they'll be at 45 ish just cutting MVS, and the Mahomes deal is built to be endlessly re-structured like Brady's was.
 

Silverdude2167

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Come on. Now people are losing their minds.

INTs are down a lot over the years, but Mahomes has the 4th lowest INT percentage of ALL TIME. 1.7% versus Favre's 3.3%. It's better than Brady's. Dak's. Burrow's. Josh Allen and Stafford at 2.4%.

Better than everyone in history but Rodgers, Brissett, and Tyrod. And you can throw Tyrod and Brissett out.
Farve is like a top 10 QB of all time. Getting compared to him is not a major insult.

My point is he has made a ton of ill advised throws in the past and he gets away with it most of the time, but it works less now that his WRs are meh.
 

jcd0805

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He’s a competitive guy that has been pretty good with the media, and had a bad night.

I hate that team, so I've always hated Mahomes. Somehow, seeing him throw a hissy fit and being a bit of a baby last night was one of the first times that I've kind of liked him.

Bitching about it to Allen was maybe my favorite part. Allen was probably like, "whatever dude, we would have scored a TD anyway."

"Let the players on the field" decide it is so dumb that I'm sure he's sitting there this morning feeling like a jackass. The players on the field did decide it -- Toney decided it. Idiot. But I'm good with Pat. I think deep down they are are all narcistic assholes. It's fine when they remind us.
Really? I’ve always liked him, but that bratty meltdown was pathetic. Who was he having to be held back from?? The refs?? So stupid. He didn’t react that badly when the play was called back, only when they lost. Honestly seems he’s having a hard time dealing with the adversity every other team has had to deal with so lol boo hoo, hope the refs call every ticky tack cs they can against them now.
 

BaseballJones

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Just goes to show how hard it is to win as much as Brady did. Mahomes is in the "Pats with Reche Caldwell" phase, though of course he also has Kelce, but Kelce doesn't seem to be quite the player he has been. So Mahomes, with a massive contract, is having to do more with less. Fortunately for him, their defense is really good so he doesn't need to score 30+ in order to win.

But yeah, for a QB used to just ripping up and down the field at will, this is quite a change. If I'm KC, I'm absolutely looking at WR in this coming year's draft.
 

johnmd20

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He’s a competitive guy that has been pretty good with the media, and had a bad night.

I hate that team, so I've always hated Mahomes. Somehow, seeing him throw a hissy fit and being a bit of a baby last night was one of the first times that I've kind of liked him.

Bitching about it to Allen was maybe my favorite part. Allen was probably like, "whatever dude, we would have scored a TD anyway."

"Let the players on the field" decide it is so dumb that I'm sure he's sitting there this morning feeling like a jackass. The players on the field did decide it -- Toney decided it. Idiot. But I'm good with Pat. I think deep down they are are all narcistic assholes. It's fine when they remind us.
This is quite a zag.

"Now that Mahomes has shown himself to be a petulant little baby and sore loser, gotta say, it was HOT."
 

TFisNEXT

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He’s a competitive guy that has been pretty good with the media, and had a bad night.

I hate that team, so I've always hated Mahomes. Somehow, seeing him throw a hissy fit and being a bit of a baby last night was one of the first times that I've kind of liked him.

Bitching about it to Allen was maybe my favorite part. Allen was probably like, "whatever dude, we would have scored a TD anyway."

"Let the players on the field" decide it is so dumb that I'm sure he's sitting there this morning feeling like a jackass. The players on the field did decide it -- Toney decided it. Idiot. But I'm good with Pat. I think deep down they are are all narcistic assholes. It's fine when they remind us.
Re: Bolded….it was mentioned once further up but it seems in a lot of the discussion nationally about this game, it has kind of been glossed over that Allen would’ve had like 1:15 and all 3 time outs left to try and either tie or win it in regulation. Not exactly a Mount Everest task when you have Allen’s talent and know you have 4 downs to play with it.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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This is quite a zag.

"Now that Mahomes has shown himself to be a petulant little baby and sore loser, gotta say, it was HOT."
I mean, kinda, yeah. I used to love it when Brady got all pissed off too, and not just because he was our guy.

I generally find Mahomes to be an annoying phony and that has always been my main beef with him. I know he's an asshole, just like all of them. Now that he's confirmed it, I'm kind of good with him. What can I say? Watching him be kind of pathetic, I was sort like, "you go you petulant little fucker." Dunno, I do zag a little with this shit.
 

Sandwich Pick

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Yeah... Mahomes is the best QB in the league, he had a little tantrum yesterday because he's frustrated by his WRs just imploding this season and he knows enough not to blame his teammates so he blamed the refs.

I dislike the sideline tiptoes, but until the league stops it... it's legal, and well it's a very Patriots dynasty style exploitation of a rule.

I really don't get the idea that he's somehow been "handed everything"... he was a 3 start recruit, he played for a crap Texas Tech team so well he got his terrible coach a job in the NFL (where Kliff was terrible), sat for his first year, then beat out the starter to get the job year 2, since which time he's been a great QB.
He's the anti-Rodgers and Roethlisberger in this regard. Although Rodgers tended to publicly shit on his WR as a group and not individually.
 

johnmd20

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I mean, kinda, yeah. I used to love it when Brady got all pissed off too, and not just because he was our guy.

I generally find Mahomes to be an annoying phony and that has always been my main beef with him. I know he's an asshole, just like all of them. Now that he's confirmed it, I'm kind of good with him. What can I say? Watching him be kind of pathetic, I was sort like, "you go you petulant little fucker." Dunno, I do zag a little with this shit.
You are the zag master, no doubt. A man's gotta have a code.
 

ShaneTrot

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I don't mind the Mahomes whining, these guys are competitive and let's face it besides Kelce, Mahomes knows these receivers are fuck ups. I was annoyed by Reid, he knows Toney is an idiot. This is the second game this season where he put the team behind the eightball with his lack of concentration.

As an aside, the fact that BB put up or puts up with the nitwits on this Pats team makes me think he has lost it a little. Schooler should be fired into the sun for all his stupid penalties. They finally cut bait with Jack Jones and Ty Montgomery way too late after it was clear for weeks they were not producing.
 

tims4wins

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Tom Brady is the best. He will always be the best. Watching him gave me more joy than any athlete in my life. It will never be better.
I know man. It's slightly depressing knowing that I'll never experience anything close to that again, but man did that era happen at a mostly perfect time in my life where I could dedicate a ton of energy and attention to the team. I will forever be grateful and remember those times.
 

BaseballJones

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I know man. It's slightly depressing knowing that I'll never experience anything close to that again, but man did that era happen at a mostly perfect time in my life where I could dedicate a ton of energy and attention to the team. I will forever be grateful and remember those times.
Yep. That was the Golden Era, right there. We could go through all the numbers again and they'd still be as staggering as ever, but the real point is that it was an absolute joy to be a Pats fan then.
 

DanoooME

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- (to Josh Allen) "Worst effing call I've ever seen"
I like Mahomes and understand why he was upset, but it is graceless to complain about how the officiating cost your team the game in the ears of the other team's QB as you are congratulating them! Why bother congratulating your opponent if all you have to offer them is "we wuz robbed!"
I would have loved to see Josh Allen's face when he said that. If Allen didn't visibly react, I would never want to play poker against that guy. If Mahomes had said it to me, I wouldn't have resisted laughing in his face.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I'm disappointed in Reid. I'd expect him to said something like "I have to put my players in the correct spots and in better position to succeed so that's on me".

As for Mahomes, cry me a fuckin river. His part about the call "in that moment" really grinds my gears considering how he benefitted from the extremally ticky-tack holding call on Bradberry to win them the SB. Bradberry who, btw, owned it unlike the Chiefs.
 

ilol@u

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Complaining about the offside is weak sauce by Mahomes, because they still had second, third and fourth down to make something happen.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I'm disappointed in Reid. I'd expect him to said something like "I have to put my players in the correct spots and in better position to succeed so that's on me".

As for Mahomes, cry me a fuckin river. His part about the call "in that moment" really grinds my gears considering how he benefitted from the extremally ticky-tack holding call on Bradberry to win them the SB. Bradberry who, btw, owned it unlike the Chiefs.
Reid kind of pulled back on his comments today, which doesn’t surprise me because he’s a great coach who knows he can’t be perceived as memorializing excuses for mistakes the team makes. But it’s the second time he’s lit up the officials for calling clear penalties under some philosophy that the officials should be proactively warning a player about the alignment penalty before throwing a flag. Utter nonsense.

And the 2-3 inches comment is clearly intended to signal that he thinks it is ticky tack bullshit and/or shouldn’t be called the first time the penalty occurs or without some other ‘warning’, even though they aren’t ‘making excuses.’ The whole game is about inches! See, eg, plays on the boundary.

Al Pacino’s speech from ‘Any Given Sunday’ doesn’t have quite the power of you replace the word ‘inches’ with ‘feet.’