The Celtics Offseason

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radsoxfan

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Cellar-Door said:
people keep saying this.... he won't make 60M until the end of the extension (2027-28). And the cap is going up. 50M next year for Jaylen is not going to be an albatross unless he goes full Klay. He'll be making 7M more than Zach LaVine (you think the Bulls wouldn't jump to make that switch even with picks?).

It'll be a big contract, but given skill, age, etc... easily tradeable, likely for real assets.
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There are definitely other bad contracts in the NBA, SuperMax Jaylen certainly wouldn't be the worst.

I do think the most likely scenario is being able to trade him for some decent assets or at least being able to do it without having to sweeten the pot/take back toxic assets. But I think there is a reasonable downside risk it ends up worse than that.

He has had wrist surgery, some knee issues, he shot 33% from 3 last season, his D is not very good, and some of the advanced stats aren't high on him. He also has looked pretty bad when Tatum is out/injured and he's asked to be a #1 guy. He might be our 4th best player next year if White and KP build on their 22-23 seasons.

That's obviously all the most negative way you can view the situation and I'm not saying they shouldn't give him that contract if they feel they need to.... but I wouldn't automatically assume people will be lining up to take if off our hands in a year either.
 
JM3

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Beal is older, worse, had a no-trade, & wasn't much cheaper, & the Wiz still recouped some actual asset value from him.

The question is would the Celtics be able to recoup enough to be similarly competitive without him.

What the Wiz ended up with after giving up Beal, Goodwin, Todd & #8...

Jordan Poole
Landry Shamet
Ryan Rollins
Bilal Coulibaly (No. 7 pick, via Pacers)
2024 first-round pick swap
2024 second-round pick
2025 second-round pick
2026 first-round pick swap
2026 second-round pick
2027 second-round pick x2
2028 first-round pick swap
2028 second-round pick
2030 first-round pick swap
2030 first-round pick from Warriors (top 20 protected)
2030 second-round pick
 
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the moops

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I think some are way way undervaluing Jaylen here. I am not the biggest fan at all, but he is viewed by many around the league as an actual all-NBA player and not a borderline one like most here think. Him locked up for 5 years on a supermax would result in a great haul in terms of picks and/or players
 
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radsoxfan

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JM3 said:
Beal is older, worse, had a no-trade, & wasn't much cheaper, & the Wiz still recouped some actual asset value from him.
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I think that was a desperate and bad trade for the Suns, but agree with your overall point.

Most likely if they want to trade Jaylen in a year I think they will be able to (and hopefully get at least some value). Usually a couple teams are desperate for a "star". I just think the contract is so big there might be more downside than we think if he regresses. With the new CBA hard to have these Supermax guys as a 2nd/3rd option, teams might start to realize that.

But there is risk with a lot of these huge deals, though if they think he will only accept the SuperMax I understand why they would give it. Let's hope he works on his handle and he shoots better from 3 next season.
 
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lexrageorge

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radsoxfan said:
I think that was a desperate and bad trade for the Suns, but agree with your overall point.

Most likely if they want to trade Jaylen in a year I think they will be able to (and hopefully get at least some value). Usually a couple teams are desperate for a "star". I just think the contract is so big there might be more downside than we think if he regresses. With the new CBA hard to have these Supermax guys as a 2nd/3rd option, teams might start to realize that.

But there is risk with a lot of these huge deals, if they think he will only accept the SuperMax I understand why they would give it. Let's hope he works on his handle and he shoots better from 3 next season.
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Brown also shot a career high from 2 point range, and attempted a career high 5.1 free throws per game.

And his 3 point shooting was much better than 33% in February/March/April and the playoffs; really was just an artifact of him having a cold start in that area.
 
Cellar-Door

Cellar-Door

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That's great money, about 17.5-18M below the max he could get.

Also, shorter years and lower AAV than Jerami Grant just got, less years and only about 4.5M a year more than Kuzma, and Porzingis is...... A LOT better than either of those guys, even when you factor in injury concerns
 
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radsoxfan

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It's always going to be about health for KP, but thats a very very good deal for the Celtics considering what he did last season.
 
nighthob

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the moops said:
I think some are way way undervaluing Jaylen here. I am not the biggest fan at all, but he is viewed by many around the league as an actual all-NBA player and not a borderline one like most here think. Him locked up for 5 years on a supermax would result in a great haul in terms of picks and/or players
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Yeah, I’ve said it before, JB on a five year extension is the most insanely valuable contract this side of Tatum on a five year extension. They can easily load up for the 2024 title and then have teams lining up to trade for Brown. Because with five guaranteed years teams with large accumulations of young talent are going to be in the market for an actual star.
 
HomeRunBaker

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PedroKsBambino said:
Rumor Celts are in on Pat Bev, which would make sense as a backfill for Smart's toughness and defense, in reduced minutes.
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This would surely signal the end of Pritchard's tenure here as those would be the backend rotation minutes he'd be signing on for.
 
BigMike

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nighthob said:
Yeah, I’ve said it before, JB on a five year extension is the most insanely valuable contract this side of Tatum on a five year extension. They can easily load up for the 2024 title and then have teams lining up to trade for Brown. Because with five guaranteed years teams with large accumulations of young talent are going to be in the market for an actual star.
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Would likely make sense in Houston. I think no way with OKC. Not sure on Orlando, maybe but I don't see it. I gues we will see how this years picks do. I guess maybe Utah, but can't see Brown in Utah
 
Cellar-Door

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BigMike said:
Would likely make sense in Houston. I think no way with OKC. Not sure on Orlando, maybe but I don't see it. I gues we will see how this years picks do. I guess maybe Utah, but can't see Brown in Utah
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I don't think it's AS valuable as nighthob, but I think the Hornets, Pacers and Pistons would all be on the list too, bunch more
 
nighthob

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BigMike said:
Would likely make sense in Houston. I think no way with OKC. Not sure on Orlando, maybe but I don't see it. I gues we will see how this years picks do. I guess maybe Utah, but can't see Brown in Utah
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I could absolutely see the Thunder looking to pair Brown with SGA. That’s a team that automatically goes to the top four of the weaker conference. Utah has a need for wings, and Danny drafted Jaylen, so I think that they’d also be all in, especially with their 278 future firsts.
 
BigMike

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Cellar-Door said:
I don't think it's AS valuable as nighthob, but I think the Hornets, Pacers and Pistons would all be on the list too, bunch more
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Sure, I was responding to his comment of teams with a large accumulation of young talent. i wouldn't say the Hornets have that. the Pistons maybe. The Pacers, I like some of their players, but I don't see a huge group of young guys who would be big trade assets.

nighthob said:
I could absolutely see the Thunder looking to pair Brown with SGA. That’s a team that automatically goes to the top four of the weaker conference. Utah has a need for wings, and Danny drafted Jaylen, so I think that they’d also be all in, especially with their 278 future firsts.
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But the Thunder are loaded with Really good guards. I guess they could do something bizarre like Trade Giddy or Jdub , some other good role players and a ton of picks. i just don't see it. Nor do I see him as a perfect fit for their scheme. I also don't see Brown being a small market guy. My guess is when thunder cash in, they are likely looking for a 4/5 type of player, not another 2/3
 
RorschachsMask

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On the court, I’d like Davis a lot. He was 86th percentile as a spot up guy last season, which obviously has value to the Celtics. He’s athletic, and knows how to get open. Inconsistency is his biggest issue, but for a regular season back of rotation guy? That’s pretty good.

Off the court, less to like.
 
Cellar-Door

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bsj said:
sign beverley already
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if they sign Beverly it will be late in the offseason. He's going to want more than the minimum by all accounts and Celtics won't use the MLE until they know what they are doing with Grant.
 
HomeRunBaker

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Instead of us all nitpicking on who our 10th man will be let's sit back for a moment and appreciate how far this organization and Brad have come. I mean just look at everyone's excitement!!
51A87FC7-9954-4FCC-A300-C151B0D5A115.jpeg
 
Cellar-Door

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slamminsammya said:
one of my absolute favorite sports photographs
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Bogans so pissed they made him fly to Boston to hold up the shirt when everyone involved had agreed he would pick up his option then go home to his boat

edit- sign a contract rather, wasn;t an option but a S&T
 
RorschachsMask

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View: https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1674974702870179846?s=20


At 12:01 a.m. on Saturday, Brown will become eligible to receive a five-year, $295 million super-max extension. A league source said Friday that Brown is not expected to instantly agree to a deal, but both sides remain confident that one can be struck soon
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But he has begun to restock the cupboard the last two weeks, acquiring the Warriors’ 2024 first-round pick in the Porzingis trade, then making a series of deals on draft night to add four future second-round picks. The Celtics own all of their future first-round picks, too, and a league source stressed that these assets are not being amassed for any future youth movement. The Celtics are positioning themselves to strike when the chance for another massive trade materializes. On Friday, though, they were content to simply tinker.
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Cellar-Door

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Starting to think it's more and more likely Grant is back.

I tentatively thought anything full MLE and under (so basically 12.4M and under) they would bring him back, because it's reasonable and easy to flip later.

Only 2 teams remain who could offer more.... HOU and SA
 
lovegtm

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nighthob said:
Yeah, I’ve said it before, JB on a five year extension is the most insanely valuable contract this side of Tatum on a five year extension. They can easily load up for the 2024 title and then have teams lining up to trade for Brown. Because with five guaranteed years teams with large accumulations of young talent are going to be in the market for an actual star.
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Yeah, I've come around to the idea that the supermax is worth offering, because it opens his trade market to all those no-hoper franchises that could never re-sign him.

I bet that the 5th year player option will be a sticking point in the negotiations for that exact reason.

In a world where FVV gets 43 per from the Rockets, Jaylen at 60 will remain a good asset barring catastrophe.
 
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pjheff

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RorschachsMask said:
At 12:01 a.m. on Saturday, Brown will become eligible to receive a five-year, $295 million super-max extension. A league source said Friday that Brown is not expected to instantly agree to a deal, but both sides remain confident that one can be struck soon
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Is there an order of operations where it benefits the C’s to wait and extend Brown after they’ve made their other offseason moves?
 
lexrageorge

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pjheff said:
Is there an order of operations where it benefits the C’s to wait and extend Brown after they’ve made their other offseason moves?
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It doesn't really matter as any extension does not affect this season's cap or luxury tax levels.

Technically, Brown cannot sign the extension until July 6th anyway, so there's really no urgency to get it done today. My guess is that the negotiation is around the 5th year.
 
bankshot1

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lovegtm said:
Yeah, I've come around to the idea that the supermax is worth offering, because it opens his trade market to all those no-hoper franchises that could never re-sign him.

I bet that the 5th year player option will be a sticking point in the negotiations for that exact reason.

In a world where FVV gets 43 per from the Rockets, Jaylen at 60 will remain a good asset barring catastrophe.
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In a world where KI re-ups in Dallas and will burn Cuban's dough and piss away another season because it amuses him, I can imagine (more like fantasize) Luka may eventually say fuck this shit, I'd rather play with a Unicorn again than a fucking asshole, and Jaylen may be amenable for a warmer clime and hook-up with a kindred spirit.

I mostly being facetious but I sense that JB may be open to other venues in the not too distant future..
 
Mystic Merlin

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Tomase slinked back into the conversation with an embedded retraction to his Van Vleet article, presumably after being told he’s a dipshit by enough people (https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/boston-celtics/fred-vanvleet-great-celtics-fit-free-agency-salary-cap-concerns/540158/?amp=1). Naturally, it’s buried on their site; pretty slippery move to not post a new article walking back the original article.

‘AUTHOR'S NOTE (Wednesday, June 28): So, I am a moron. This column was originally headlined: "Forget cap concerns: Fred VanVleet would be a great fit for Celtics." My heart was in the right place -- I want the Celtics to load up for another run and I've always loved VanVleet, even if your mileage may vary -- but wanting something and operating within the confines of reality are two different things, and the Celtics can't sign a $30 million free agent without cap space. Did I mention I'm a moron?

So, as much as I hate the CBA and how its stupid complexities are punishing teams like the C's that built the right way, there's no point in pining for someone they can't afford. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to set up a meeting with Time Lord to see if he can help me out of this one.

-- Original story below --‘
 
HomeRunBaker

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Mystic Merlin said:
Tomase slinked back into the conversation with an embedded retraction to his Van Vleet article, presumably after being told he’s a dipshit by enough people (https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/boston-celtics/fred-vanvleet-great-celtics-fit-free-agency-salary-cap-concerns/540158/?amp=1). Naturally, it’s buried on their site; pretty slippery move to not post a new article walking back the original article.

‘AUTHOR'S NOTE (Wednesday, June 28): So, I am a moron. This column was originally headlined: "Forget cap concerns: Fred VanVleet would be a great fit for Celtics." My heart was in the right place -- I want the Celtics to load up for another run and I've always loved VanVleet, even if your mileage may vary -- but wanting something and operating within the confines of reality are two different things, and the Celtics can't sign a $30 million free agent without cap space. Did I mention I'm a moron?

So, as much as I hate the CBA and how its stupid complexities are punishing teams like the C's that built the right way, there's no point in pining for someone they can't afford. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to set up a meeting with Time Lord to see if he can help me out of this one.

-- Original story below --‘
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OMG. I hadn't followed this at all until just now. So basically, Tomase would have gotten laughed off this board with that take....yet he is a paid employee of NBCSportsBoston? Good lord, this is your job and you don't bother to put in the effort to understand the landscape? People here do it religiously without being paid a dime. Incredible.
 
RedOctober3829

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Mystic Merlin said:
Tomase slinked back into the conversation with an embedded retraction to his Van Vleet article, presumably after being told he’s a dipshit by enough people (https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/boston-celtics/fred-vanvleet-great-celtics-fit-free-agency-salary-cap-concerns/540158/?amp=1). Naturally, it’s buried on their site; pretty slippery move to not post a new article walking back the original article.

‘AUTHOR'S NOTE (Wednesday, June 28): So, I am a moron. This column was originally headlined: "Forget cap concerns: Fred VanVleet would be a great fit for Celtics." My heart was in the right place -- I want the Celtics to load up for another run and I've always loved VanVleet, even if your mileage may vary -- but wanting something and operating within the confines of reality are two different things, and the Celtics can't sign a $30 million free agent without cap space. Did I mention I'm a moron?

So, as much as I hate the CBA and how its stupid complexities are punishing teams like the C's that built the right way, there's no point in pining for someone they can't afford. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to set up a meeting with Time Lord to see if he can help me out of this one.

-- Original story below --‘
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He’s right about one thing: he’s a moron.
 
JM3

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Crazy media time to be alive when a guy who knows nothing can write something that makes no sense & no one bothers to fact check it before publishing it.
 
JakeRae

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One thing to note is with a lower than expected price on the Porzingis extension, there is a still a narrow pathway to being positioned, without any major moves, to stay below the second apron next year. That pathway is either (1) Jaylen signs for like 32% instead of 35%, which frees up an extra $5 million and gives us a buffer to keep Grant, and otherwise limits us to vet min additions to fill out the roster; (2) Jaylen gets a full 35% deal and we have one taxpayer MLE level slot the next 2 years (meaning we could add someone on a 1 year deal this year and use it again or a multiyear deal and not have it next year).

I’m still of the opinion that if it comes down to breaking through the apron to field the best team, we will do it. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if Stevens is trying to use the second apron to negotiate a package with Grant and Jaylen that keeps them both at a level that makes staying under $200 million next year possible. I think that negotiating posture is also advantageous because it won’t alienate Jaylen. The pitch would be that we’ll pay him what we need to pay him (maybe playing hardball on a player option), but if he wants to win a modest discount gets us the room to keep Grant and will strengthen the team and Brad isn’t sure if he will be able to make keeping Grant work if Jaylen wants the full super max.

Also, as we’ve discussed elsewhere, Brad Stevens is always shopping for ways to improve so the assumption of holding the roster static aside from the Jaylen and Grant variables is not a great assumption, just the only one to reasonably spin hypotheticals off of right now.
 
lovegtm

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JakeRae said:
One thing to note is with a lower than expected price on the Porzingis extension, there is a still a narrow pathway to being positioned, without any major moves, to stay below the second apron next year. That pathway is either (1) Jaylen signs for like 32% instead of 35%, which frees up an extra $5 million and gives us a buffer to keep Grant, and otherwise limits us to vet min additions to fill out the roster; (2) Jaylen gets a full 35% deal and we have one taxpayer MLE level slot the next 2 years (meaning we could add someone on a 1 year deal this year and use it again or a multiyear deal and not have it next year).

I’m still of the opinion that if it comes down to breaking through the apron to field the best team, we will do it. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if Stevens is trying to use the second apron to negotiate a package with Grant and Jaylen that keeps them both at a level that makes staying under $200 million next year possible. I think that negotiating posture is also advantageous because it won’t alienate Jaylen. The pitch would be that we’ll pay him what we need to pay him (maybe playing hardball on a player option), but if he wants to win a modest discount gets us the room to keep Grant and will strengthen the team and Brad isn’t sure if he will be able to make keeping Grant work if Jaylen wants the full super max.

Also, as we’ve discussed elsewhere, Brad Stevens is always shopping for ways to improve so the assumption of holding the roster static aside from the Jaylen and Grant variables is not a great assumption, just the only one to reasonably spin hypotheticals off of right now.
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I don't think Jaylen gives that big a discount without a no-trade clause (to stop the discount from being used to shop him later), and I doubt the Cs are interested at all in giving that.
 
Euclis20

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lovegtm said:
I don't think Jaylen gives that big a discount without a no-trade clause (to stop the discount from being used to shop him later), and I doubt the Cs are interested at all in giving that.
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I don't believe he can get a no trade clause even if the team allowed it. To be eligible, you have to have been in the league for at least 8 years (and 4 years with the team), and he just finished year 7. The timing of players getting super max deals (usually after year 7) is partially responsible for why no trade clauses are so rare.
 
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