If they go to an in-season tournament as is being discussed now, then that will all be renegotiated anyway.
Celtics vs. Heat, Round 3 Discussion
- Thread starter tims4wins
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Miami's 3 worst shooting nights of the season are all against the Celtics. One in November, and then the last 2 games.
The Bam screens last night were pretty egregious but this whole series has been plagued by Miami's incessant hand checking, reach-ins and body fouls, especially on the perimeter. It's a good gameplan by Spolestra because it disrupts the Celtics' half court offense - there is always a guy right in their airspace when they are swinging it around and trying to get to the basket. And what also happens is that the refs are basically forced to put the whistles away because there'd be three fouls on every Celtics offensive possession. And then the slope is slipperier and they just stop calling these fouls altogether. It normalizes it. I hate when this happens in the NBA. Same thing as Giannis' barrelling to the basket.
Credit to the Celtics for playing through it and getting it done. They moved the ball more quickly in the second half and negated this strategy.
Credit to the Celtics for playing through it and getting it done. They moved the ball more quickly in the second half and negated this strategy.
I don't know man; it feels like the Celtics have been in the bonus for pretty much the entire series. The Miami strategy has forced a lot of turnovers, but also has led to a lot of free throws, especially on fouls that would be on the floor that end up being free points for the Celtics because they are in the bonus.
I don’t know how anyone, even Celtics fans, to watch this series and feel that we haven’t gotten the better whistle. At the very worst and equal whistle…..and that’s a stretch from my seat. Nothing egregious but def the best of it imo.
It is shocking to see how TL has completely shattered Bam's confidence over the last two games.
This is reminiscent of what Kenyon Martin did to Antoine back in 2003. What is crazier about this to me is that Employee #8 was never what you would call a super athletic specimen for an NBA player, while Martin was much more of a raw athlete. Bam basketball sensibilities have been upended by the Chronomancer.
This is reminiscent of what Kenyon Martin did to Antoine back in 2003. What is crazier about this to me is that Employee #8 was never what you would call a super athletic specimen for an NBA player, while Martin was much more of a raw athlete. Bam basketball sensibilities have been upended by the Chronomancer.
The stars of the November win were the second unit of Schroder, Nesmith and Langford. This seems like 3 seasons ago.
The first TL block on that corner 3 was probably my favorite play of the game. Higher even than JB’s most violent dunk (he was so horizontal he ended up on the floor!). I’ve watched the TL block a bunch now. He’s almost in the paint when the ball is passed, closes, and blocks the ball from a good distance away. Just incredible athleticism.
Extend Malik Fitts. His reactions on the bench are always incredible. All-NBA cheerleading talent, unlike that poser Thanasis.
Lots of talk about whether Smart or TL are really the team's 2nd best player, but if you ask me Al has been that guy in these playoffs. Impactful, consistent and playing big minutes.
It’s almost an embarrassment of riches. Al, Smart or TL would likely be the 2nd best player on several current NBA rosters. Who is the 3rd best on the Celtics roster is a fun topic and there can be multiple correct answers.
It's a bit philosophical----as you no doubt have seen, the Heat strategy is to be very physical and reach and claw and bang to slow down younger, faster, more athletic Celtics and try to generate turnovers. So from one perspective I fully agree---Celts have a ton more free throws, fouls favor them, and it's nothing like the Giannis travesty. Celts D has also (since game 1, at least) been able to be equally physical in the paint, which hurts Miami a lot absent Butler as they have no other great finishers. That's all pretty level in my mind.
Worth noting, though, that Miami should have been called for well more than they have been too---their strategy is to be ultra physical and while many have been called, many have not. I'll take the whistles continuing as they have been but before saying it's a favorable Celtics whistle worth considering degree Miami chose an approach that will always generate a lot more fouls (called and uncalled) too.
Plus, Miami has gotten an extremely loose whistle on screens. How would they break even eighty points without that?
The foul difference between the two teams in the series essentially comes down to one guy: Max Strus. He can't guard anyone and is forced to foul on nearly any possession that he's matched up against someone with even a hint of offensive talent.
It's favorable to the Celtics because they are the better team and have found a way to play through it. If they were calling any of those fouls they would be at the line even more, Miami player would be sitting with too many fouls by the 2nd quarter, and the Celtics would be winning by 30 every night.
I'm not saying there's some conspiracy or whatever. It's like when you play in regular pickup games and there's the guy who equates good defense with pushing and reaching in, and everybody just stops calling anything but the worst fouls because you have to get on with the games.
I'm not saying there's some conspiracy or whatever. It's like when you play in regular pickup games and there's the guy who equates good defense with pushing and reaching in, and everybody just stops calling anything but the worst fouls because you have to get on with the games.
You can see he has gotten in their head somewhat....I've noticed MIA rushing some of their 3s when he is on the floor and trying to close. This has to be contributing to their awful 3 point %
I was really enjoying how the crowd noticeably cheered every time he had the ball on offense like they were expecting something amazing and he would just pass or brick one.
Bam reminds me of a poor man’s KG as I guy who has the physical skills to take over a game offensively but not the demeanor as they are both geared toward stopping their opponent opposed to getting theirs.
Most importantly, it's TV every single night during Sweeps Month. The conference championships are often the most exciting basketball of the season, and it's a relentless ratings grabber throughout.
Everything is contested these past two games without Herro’s dribble penetration opening up passing lanes for clean looks. Their offense is consisting of running Duncan and Strus around screens up top where everyone in the building recognizes what is occuring these past two games which isn’t what we saw in the first 3 games when Herro was breaking down the defense or in G1 when Butler abused us without Smart/TL to keep him out of the paint.
The Heat really, really need game 3 Bam in this series and that just hasn't happened. No question TL and the Celtics matchups are a part of that---they have three guys who make it hard for him and present different challenges (with Grant he can shoot over him; that doesn't work at all against TL, and largely not against Al. Against TL he can try bullyball, but he isn't strong enough to do that with Grant or Al).
What Miami tried to do with Bam in 4th quarter, having him start the offense and drive/play into the paint, probably is a place to focus more in game 6. But this is where the lack of 3pt success matters, Bam isn't a top-tier finisher and the Celtics are sagging to clog the lanes when he tries that. Bam is a good enough passer to turn that into looks, but they aren't hitting enough of them. And Bam hsan't shown, energy-wise, he can be the offensive focal point for 50% of the offensive possession that a Butler can.
If I were guessing, Heat's big adjustments will be:
1. Sit Lowry, benching for Vincent and possibly all the way out of the game (or trying to get him down to 15ish targeted minutes). He just can't compete at the level they need him.
2. Try more Bam as point guard to create earlier looks for him and also to force Celts to open up the paint a bit as they match up wtih Bam above the foul line (as they don't want him to get a head of steam---they aren't worried about his jumper up there)
3. Play Herro in whatever shape he is in early, to see what you have. Him being even somewhat a threat offensively would help a lot. And if you learn he just can't contribute, move on to below
4. Try some targeted pressing/traps to generate turnovers, especially when Smart or Al is off the court. Miami will need to go deeper into the bench to do a lot of this---they are lacking in healthy bodies. But they need to try; Vincent, Oladipo, Martin, Butler, Bam is a decent press unit, sneaking in a shooter at times (with more half-court trapping if Robinson or Strus are in there)
5. Keep trying to get Strus and Robinson free and hot. It may well continue not to happen, but they cannot win if they don't get more offense. I know I was the outlier a couple games ago arguing their offensive need was bigger than their defensive one but I still believe that to be true and those two are among the only ways they might improve. Robinson/Strus haven't answered the bell often (and Strus may be hurt).
6. Experiment with Butler posting up. There's tons of reasons this may fail---it's not his core game, if TL is lurking it's a problem, and he may not have the power with broken wheel. But he's a great finisher and they have not been able to get him to be effective on-ball since the injury and they need to generate points. Bam up top as high-post center and Butler down low might generate some offense and will invert Celts preferred back line defense. Though bam's lack of a jumper limits how well you can leverage this
What Miami tried to do with Bam in 4th quarter, having him start the offense and drive/play into the paint, probably is a place to focus more in game 6. But this is where the lack of 3pt success matters, Bam isn't a top-tier finisher and the Celtics are sagging to clog the lanes when he tries that. Bam is a good enough passer to turn that into looks, but they aren't hitting enough of them. And Bam hsan't shown, energy-wise, he can be the offensive focal point for 50% of the offensive possession that a Butler can.
If I were guessing, Heat's big adjustments will be:
1. Sit Lowry, benching for Vincent and possibly all the way out of the game (or trying to get him down to 15ish targeted minutes). He just can't compete at the level they need him.
2. Try more Bam as point guard to create earlier looks for him and also to force Celts to open up the paint a bit as they match up wtih Bam above the foul line (as they don't want him to get a head of steam---they aren't worried about his jumper up there)
3. Play Herro in whatever shape he is in early, to see what you have. Him being even somewhat a threat offensively would help a lot. And if you learn he just can't contribute, move on to below
4. Try some targeted pressing/traps to generate turnovers, especially when Smart or Al is off the court. Miami will need to go deeper into the bench to do a lot of this---they are lacking in healthy bodies. But they need to try; Vincent, Oladipo, Martin, Butler, Bam is a decent press unit, sneaking in a shooter at times (with more half-court trapping if Robinson or Strus are in there)
5. Keep trying to get Strus and Robinson free and hot. It may well continue not to happen, but they cannot win if they don't get more offense. I know I was the outlier a couple games ago arguing their offensive need was bigger than their defensive one but I still believe that to be true and those two are among the only ways they might improve. Robinson/Strus haven't answered the bell often (and Strus may be hurt).
6. Experiment with Butler posting up. There's tons of reasons this may fail---it's not his core game, if TL is lurking it's a problem, and he may not have the power with broken wheel. But he's a great finisher and they have not been able to get him to be effective on-ball since the injury and they need to generate points. Bam up top as high-post center and Butler down low might generate some offense and will invert Celts preferred back line defense. Though bam's lack of a jumper limits how well you can leverage this
Preach
I haven't seen anyone mention this (I don't generally do game threads, so it may have been mentioned there), but Lowry grabbed Tatum's forearm and yanked the arm. Low-key dirty move, unsurprising from Lowry, but it's a side-effect of the refs letting everything go IMO. I don't remember for sure that a foul was called (I think that it was), but I'm really looking forward to the good guys dispatching the bad guys as soon as humanly possible. Miami's only plan for staying alive in this series is to turn it into an MMA ground game. We need to stay on our feet and finish it off.
Seems like I've seen people asking if Smart or TL aren't more important than Jaylen. My memory is definitely bad, so I could be wrong.
Personally I think Jaylen is a clear #2.
Grant is not above grabbing the occasional arm. If there's one thing I'd like the refs to do, it is to be more serious about calling the cheap fouls. Head contact, pushing a guy in the air from behind, grabbing an arm, etc.
Agreed. I'd love to see the arm grab in particular called, much more than the moving screen kvetching (albeit justified). I think that Grant generally holds with it rather than pulling like Lowry did, but the former can be just as dangerous if a guy instinctively jumps while being held like that.
The Bam as a poor man’s KG is a great comparison. With how bad the rest of the Heat look Spo needs to send him video of Giannis and tell him he need to look to score anytime he is in the restricted area.
Interesting; KG at least had the horrifying years in Minnesota where he was forced to be the primary option on offense. For Bam, the Miami offense has always been good up until the playoffs not needing him to score a ton of points, and he seems hesitant to do it. It's weird; there was a time in the second half last night when Bam got the ball 12 feet from the basket, and had Grant on him, and the crowd cheered like they really wanted to see Bam go at him, and he passively dumped it back out and Miami had to settle for a bad shot.
One of the real joys of this series has been Lowry grabbing something in an egregious soccer style "flop". I think it was game 4 where JT drove in on a break and Lowry grabbed his neck/trap like he had been beheaded by Tatums "dangerous shot attempt". 10 seconds later as the refs called the foul on Lowry he was healed faster then by the water of Lourdes.
Last night I believe he was trying to guard a posting up Grant Williams....Grant turned and suddenly Lowrys head was nearly decapitated and he grabbed his jaw/face proving this contact.....except replay showed that Grant missed this vicious maneuver by a few inches.
To the Refs credit.....neither was called.
Last night I believe he was trying to guard a posting up Grant Williams....Grant turned and suddenly Lowrys head was nearly decapitated and he grabbed his jaw/face proving this contact.....except replay showed that Grant missed this vicious maneuver by a few inches.
To the Refs credit.....neither was called.
I am unsure how saying he is not as tough as the toughest guy ever, (Bird) and a guy who was an overachieving tough guy (Pierce competing with LBJ like he did was overachieving) discounts his age.
Are you saying we shouldn't expect the current Tatum to beat this version of the Heat? He has the team, and the ability to get this team to the finals. If he plays as poorly as he has at times this series, and they lose, he will deserve blame. At age 24 he is good enough to win this, and he should. If he, as has happened, gets overly concerned with foul calls, and brings his frowny bad body language worst version of himself, that is not acceptable at this point of his career. This team is better than Miami and Tatum doesn't need to be Bird, or even Iso Pierce to win this series.
Also not true about Shaq. Shaq was in the finals at age 22. Only (probably the best team ever) Jordan's first dynasty stopped him from at least the finals the next few years. But Shaq is in the GOAT discussion, it isn't fair to Tatum. Not sure if you are only counting playoff success as a title, then just about nobody has massive success.
Heat last 5 halves in reverse order: 38, 42, 49, 33, 47. Average: 41.8. That’s defensive dominance.
If the Celtics win another banner this year, does Horford get his number retired?
Were Bam to try this plan, he would quickly learn that he is not, in fact, Giannis.
Without getting ahead of ourselves, I'd say a banner essentially guarantees we won't see another 36, 0 or 7. Assuming Al sticks around and is productive a few more years, he probably gets there too.
If the C's go on to win, this will be the iconic sequence for the series imo. Jaylen literally and figuratively dunking on the Heat and all their culture.
Yes, and I'll go a step further. If the Celtics win the championship, does Horford make the Hall of Fame? Especially if he somehow wins Finals' MVP.
Looking at his Basketball Reference he's at a 12% probability (Player #170 on the list) surrounded by a bunch of very good, but not Hall of Fame, players & a number of Hall of Famers.
I realize this post is completely devoid of any basketball content, but how fat is that dude gonna get once he’s out of the league? Big Baby better watch out.
Basically the inverse of the Bam block. How poetic that would be.
He's probably already a Hall of Famer considering he's the best Dominican basketball player of all time and his success at Florida.
He's only got a couple more than Tatum because he's missed a bunch of playoff games (like all four of the Indiana sweep in '19).
FAT. Last night there was a angle of him walking back to the bench. He was WIIIIIII--------->DE
I say this as a fat guy myself. So I know its probably not cool to body Shame. But it is Lowry.....so hopefully the Mods overlook this one.
JVG started on "This has to stop" about Lowry's fake hit to the head when Brown posted him up. I assume he meant the faking and flopping. I expect somebody in his earphones reminded him not to disparage the product that pays the bills.
If you are a long-time C's fan - and I know you as are many of us - its about as poetic as you can get. Beating anyone to get to the Finals is great. Beating the Riley-led Heat is sublime. They need to close this out tomorrow.