2013-2014 15-501 Hoops (aka Duke/UNC and general ACC hoops talk)

[Dan Murfman]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jWg0GR_QwBRq4WM2BoxglYYZyDUw?docId=369122315af04b22a6e92ef4fd13a70f

Lance Thomas has some explaining to do. Thankfully it's Duke so the NCAA has no jurisdiction.

 

[Greg29fan]

Roy is having surgery to remove a tumor from his kidney -

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc/story/11566075/

 

[tims4wins]

Both teams with seemingly fairly easy wins tonight...will catch the Duke game on DVR and report back

 

[Greg29fan]

Carolina was very sloppy but that's to be expected w/so many young guys and two guys in Strick and McDonald coming back from major knee injuries. McAdoo was fantastic, if he can make more of his free throws he'll have an amazing season.

 

[Drocca]

Well after two games here are my initial thoughts on the individual players:

Marcus Paige - We haven't had a PG like this that I can really remember. He is a score-first PG who relies heavily on his shooting touch (which, despite early results, looks fantastic). Frankly, he reminds me more of a poor man's Austin Rivers than any recent Carolina PG. Small frame, great shooter. I think he's going to be a very good point guard here but I do worry about his ability to run the Carolina offense and, as such, I hope Roy shifts a little bit away from fastbreak offense and secondary breaks every time. Paige is very quick but I don't see that he has great end to end speed. Now, Kendall didn't either but he made up for it with the pass.

Bullock, Dexter - We know what we get from these two and it is consistent and good. Bullock can play his way into a first round NBA type player.

James Michael - a top ten player in college basketball

Brice Johnson - Love this kid. He is very active, offensive moves look so advanced for his age. He's a freshmen but I think the recruiting sites missed on just how good he is but not as bad as they missed on:

Joel James - runs the court, huge body, soft touch. There is not much to dislike about him. He's only been playing basketball for three years but he is going to develop into an elite (college level) big man and it's going to be fun to watch him.

Tokoto is squeezed out by so many other wings. Hubert should not be playing more than 5-8 minutes but as long as Kennedy Meeks is in the building watching games I think Roy is going to make it clear there is a starting spot here. Hairston is so confusing, but he was also sick this weekend. I have no idea what to make of him just like last year. McDonald is trying too much coming off surgery but it won't be long before he's in the flow of the offense and I still think, despite Hairston, Paige and Bullock, he will be our best three point shooter again this year.

As for the team, they will be very fun to watch, they are not the 11th best team in the country but with a solid year they could be a good sweet 16 team and these teams that develop together with no obvious early entries (other than JMM, of course) are so much fun to follow.

 

[Drocca]

Looking at my write-up it's clear that our biggest problem is going to be finding the right line-ups and combinations and making sure everyone is getting their minutes.

My (early) favorite starting line-up is:

Paige
Dexter
Bullock
James Michael
Joel James

with Brice Johnson first off the bench and getting equal minutes to James. Hairston and McDonald getting equal minutes to each other. Tokoto getting 10 minutes a game in offensively challenged line-ups so he can be a go-to.

That's a nine man rotation that doesn't address Desmond Hubert, who has been our starting center, or Luke Davis. Both should be spelling the big men, PG respectively with probably 5 minutes a piece.

11 man rotation is just crazy and not ideal.

 

[tims4wins]

Duke looked so-so in its opener (Friday night), to be expected. They were a bit sloppy with the ball (15 turnovers, including 4 by Tyler Thornton and 2 by Quinn Cook). Cook was a bit of a disappointment as I expected him to show a lot of progress this year; obviously it's only one game, so no panic, I just wanted to see more. Thornton actually provided them with some offense, going 3-6 on wide open 3 pointers and scoring 13 for the game. Duke shot a very nice 11-24 from 3, and I think every single one of them aside from one Quinn Cook attempt was wide open. I don't love the 3 ball, but if they are wide open looks within the flow of the offense, I have no problem.

Seth Curry was Seth Curry, ditto Ryan Kelly. Mason Plumlee was decent, snagging 14 boards, but Duke still got outrebounded 31-10.

The guy I was most excited about last night was Rasheed Sulaimon (why do we always love the freshmen - probably because we haven't seen all their weaknesses exposed over 2-3 years and we can write off mistakes and dream of their potential). He knocked down his first attempt of the game (a 3 from the corner), and finished with 6 points, 4 boards, and 4 assists.

Not much else to report. Kentucky is up tonight in Atlanta. I suspect it will be a fairly sloppy game, with Kentucky's youth, and it being so early in the season. Honestly don't even care if Duke wins or loses, it's just good for them to play this type of game / opponent early in the season - the important thing is that they learn from the experience, win or lose. I think Duke's experience will help a bit against Kentucky's youth, so I could see Duke pulling it out tonight.

 

[oilers99999999]

Duke looked so-so in its opener (Friday night), to be expected. They were a bit sloppy with the ball (15 turnovers, including 4 by Tyler Thornton and 2 by Quinn Cook). Cook was a bit of a disappointment as I expected him to show a lot of progress this year; obviously it's only one game, so no panic, I just wanted to see more. Thornton actually provided them with some offense, going 3-6 on wide open 3 pointers and scoring 13 for the game. Duke shot a very nice 11-24 from 3, and I think every single one of them aside from one Quinn Cook attempt was wide open. I don't love the 3 ball, but if they are wide open looks within the flow of the offense, I have no problem.

Seth Curry was Seth Curry, ditto Ryan Kelly. Mason Plumlee was decent, snagging 14 boards, but Duke still got outrebounded 31-10.

The guy I was most excited about last night was Rasheed Sulaimon (why do we always love the freshmen - probably because we haven't seen all their weaknesses exposed over 2-3 years and we can write off mistakes and dream of their potential). He knocked down his first attempt of the game (a 3 from the corner), and finished with 6 points, 4 boards, and 4 assists.

Not much else to report. Kentucky is up tonight in Atlanta. I suspect it will be a fairly sloppy game, with Kentucky's youth, and it being so early in the season. Honestly don't even care if Duke wins or loses, it's just good for them to play this type of game / opponent early in the season - the important thing is that they learn from the experience, win or lose. I think Duke's experience will help a bit against Kentucky's youth, so I could see Duke pulling it out tonight.

I was also disappointed with Cook's play. Its a long season, but what I think is still missing is a someone who can create their own shot and shots for others. They don't really have that dribble/drive, slasher type player (ala Nolan Smith) right now. Not saying that Cook couldn't become that player but as of right now that seems to be missing. Curry, in my mind, has been a big disappointment. I expected much bigger things when he first transferred from Liberty. He still takes bad shots and commits TOs with bad decisions. Just one game so far, but we'll see if this team can improve significantly over the course of the season.

 

[minischwab]

Rasheed is headed for great things if he stays a couple years at Duke. So much of Nolan Smith in his game, but he will probably be ahead of Smith as a freshman and soph based on health and defensive ability. Cook looked MUCH better against Kentucky, but he still needs to be stronger with the ball. Mason is ready for a huge senior season.

What struck me most watching the first 2 games is the joy Seth is playing with. I'm not sure if it was Rivers taking the spotlight as a freshman last year, but Seth clearly had a tough time playing with him. Despite the injury that he'll have to play through all year, he was smiling and really enjoying the game against Kentucky tonight, something we rarely saw all last season. Chemistry was a big issue with last year's group, doesn't seem to be the case this year.

I said it when he left high school a year early and still believe it: Murphy is NOT an ACC caliber player. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I just don't see it. Poor shooter, bad decisions with the ball, K clearly doesn't trust him at all. Amile and Hood will take all his minutes next year. Marshall returning will help next week, if he can give them minutes in Atlantis the Final vs Louisville could be an epic game.

 

[tims4wins]

- Cook was definitely better than the previous game
- Sulaimon somehow went 0-7 from 2 point range but again filled up the stat sheet with 5 assists and 6 boards
- Duke played UK even on the glass, which was a positive from my perspective
- Curry looks like he could be headed toward one of those classic senior Duke seasons in the mold of a Chris Carrawell or someone like that
- Another night night from 3, taking disciplined looks (8 for 18)
- Cut down on turnovers - only 8 vs. 15 against Georgia State
- Hairston was a positive, if he can give them that type of play consistently it would be a big help
- All in all, very nice to win a game against a top 5 team in that type of atmosphere (even if UK is super young and overrated as of right now - they may be the #3 team when all is said and done, but they are borderline top 10 right now)

 

[DukeSox]

Calipari is such a clown.

At halftime interview he said that Duke was " “flopping all over the place” and that “in the NBA they’d be suspended.”

When asked about it after the game by a Duke student newspaper reporter, Calipari said "“it was a joke. Come on, you guys at Duke can take a joke, right? Geez.”"

Right. K's response:

“I mean, he has a right to say whatever he wants. I thought we took some amazing charges, and I thought we probably could have taken a couple more. There’s a difference between a charge and a flop. A flop means you don’t take any contact. I would hope that anyone who watches the game would say that our kids really played outstanding defense and were there to take charges.
“And we don’t make any money, so we can’t be fined.”

Calipari also said:

"When we got it to three I said, 'We're going to win this.' They just made their free throws.""

They just made their free throws? Yeah, like that's luck or something. Maybe if he knew how to coach his team to "just make some free throws" he could have won that championship at Memphis.

What an idiot. Eat it, kentucky.

 

[Drocca]

I LOVE Coach K's "and we don't make any money so we can't be fined."

Because you know the team they were playing is probably very well compensated. I was rooting hard for Duke and happy to see them win. It also looks like a fun team, should be a better ACC year than last year.

 

[minischwab]

should be a better ACC year than last year.

If only...Miami lost to Florida Gulf Coast. FSU lost to South Alabama. UVa has losses to George Mason and Delaware. Yeah, it's early, but there are going to be some very bad ACC teams. FSU will be fine. Miami and UVa, not so much. Wake and Va Tech also look pretty weak.

I think NC State, Duke, UNC, Maryland and FSU are the only shots for tournament bids from the ACC. The middle of the pack could be interesting, but it won't be pretty to watch most nights. BC, Ga Tech, Clemson, and Miami could still end up there if Reggie Johnson finally decides to wake up and play hard all the time.

 

[DukeSox]

Duke was down 29-30 vs FGCU.

It's now 59-30, Duke.

 

[Drocca]

That's on Lance.

You know who made some fantastic money at Carolina (by all accounts and secret rumors and whispers and bullshit)?

Jeff McGinnis (of course, he also f*cked Phil Ford's wife). How weird is it that in that recruiting class (Stackhouse, Sheed) McGinnis is the moneymaker?

Anyway, should be a good test for UNC tonight in the first round of Maui. I expect we will lose one, maybe even two games down there.

 

[Greg29fan]

Carolina is shooting the lights out from 3 the last 2 games.

 

[Hendu's Gait]

That's on Lance.

You know who made some fantastic money at Carolina (by all accounts and secret rumors and whispers and bullshit)?

Jeff McGinnis (of course, he also f*cked Phil Ford's wife). How weird is it that in that recruiting class (Stackhouse, Sheed) McGinnis is the moneymaker?

Anyway, should be a good test for UNC tonight in the first round of Maui. I expect we will lose one, maybe even two games down there.

McInnis was always the one with the balls. Even fought Oakley once over some chick.

 

[DukeSox]

Duke's streak of consecutive top 10 rankings in the AP is now up to 96 ... that's the second longest such streak in history.

(UCLA's record was 150 or so straight during Wooden)

 

[Greg29fan]

It's gonna be a long, long season. A lot of teams are gonna whip UNC by as many as they want.

 

[mabrowndog]

It's gonna be a long, long season. A lot of teams are gonna whip UNC by as many as they want.

Yeah, they're getting absolutely destroyed by Butler right now. 47-26 early in the 2nd half. Heels can't do anything right -- lots of turnovers, crappy shots, sloppy play, and tentative passing whether it's zone or man they're facing. And they're just as clueless on D.

 

[tims4wins]

hehe. hehehehe. hehehehehehehehe.

 

[Greg29fan]

Carolina needed John Henson and Kendall Marshall to come back really bad. Not just b/c they were excellent players, but there is zero leadership on this team. The sad thing is Henson and Marshall are both DNP-coach's decision nearly every night instead of playing basketball.

 

[Greg29fan]

I don't believe in moral victories but at least they just didn't throw in the towel and allow themselves to get humiliated like in Tallahassee last year. That was just an awful first half of basketball they played, though, and they can't do that again.

 

[Brickowski]

Just finished watching Butler upset UNC in the semifinals of the Maui classic. UNC mounted a nice second-half comeback, but Jimmy Chitwood lives.

 

[DukeSox]

hehe. hehehehe. hehehehehehehehe.

Don't laugh. Eventually they will hire an actual coach, then they will be scary.

 

[Greg29fan]

maybe if your coach worried more about Duke than Team USA you could make the second week of the tournament.

 

[DukeSox]

maybe if your coach worried more about Duke than Team USA you could make the second week of the tournament.

going on 100 weeks in a row in the top 10 says 'I'm doing quite fine thank you'

 

[DukeSox]

but you know it's true

 

[Greg29fan]

not really. I don't think Roy is the greatest coach that ever lived and at Kansas you could make the argument that he was overrated because he had the most talented team several times and couldn't get the job done, but I don't think you can say that anymore since he's won it twice. It doesn't matter if he had the most talented team both times, that'd be like saying, oh sorry Coach K, you've had a great career but since you lost in 1999 you're overrated.

 

[DukeSox]

once with his own guys tho

 

[DukeSox]

Well that was just dominance.

We got 5 scorers. Finally.

 

[tims4wins]

Wins over #2 and #3 already. Get past OSU and this team may not lose for a while. Have positioned themselves quite nicely for a one seed with a solid ACC season.

 

[DukeSox]

it appears the former Duke players now in the NBA aren't as close as in the past. lots of trash talking now, even. unfortunate for the program.

http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/11/22/12/Battiers-claim-prompts-different-trash-t/landing_heat.html?blockID=824297&feedID=3720

 

[The Napkin]

I don't care if this is the Duke/UNC thread or an overall ACC thread.

That was the most fun I've had watching a VT basketball game in years. They have .. an offense? That's competent? That they can run and create shots and score? They push the ball and attack? And aren't constantly looking over their shoulders to see if they're going to be taken out and yelled at? And the coach isn't banging the floor and scowling? And they could have scored 100 if they wanted to? And then Coach Johnson ran around the student section high fiving kids after the game.

*swoon* I think I'm in love.

 

[Hendu's Gait]

Zeller is undoubtedly THAT good, but da**, that Indiana team is playing so much better than the sum of its parts, embarrassing UNC now.

 

[Greg29fan]

That's because Carolina is god fucking awful. Coaching, players, they both stink.

 

[Greg29fan]

better start making your reservations for the CBI or the CIT or whatever those bad NITs are called. The 2010 team would beat the shit out of these guys.

 

[Wings]

It's early...but it appears Butler isn't the only team from the state of Indiana that can whoop UNC.

 

[Greg29fan]

It's early...but it appears Butler isn't the only team from the state of Indiana that can whoop UNC.

Indiana, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, there's gonna be a lot of states with teams whooping them.

 

[Hendu's Gait]

now they're just embarrassing themselves. I can't recall any other time they've played the #1 team and I'm turning it off in the 2nd half.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Carolina has absolutely no post presence. When they go against a good team that can play team D, their athletes won't be able to get into the lane and score like tonight. They are one-dimensional and it shows.

 

[Greg29fan]

They don't really have any athletic slashers though besides Strickland, who thinks he's a jump shooter now, and Tokoto eventually. They've got a lot of the parts Duke has when they are down, no inside game and perimeter shooters that run hot and cold. If Carolina can make shots with guys like Bullock, McDonald, Hairston they can win games but those guys are all streaky.

 

[DukeSox]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2012/11/27/watch-the-maryland-basketball-team-play-northwestern-in-1958/

MD/NW game...from 1958. Pretty cool.

 

[DukeSox]

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS

The "Blocking Out 101" course at North Carolina must've been one of those no-show classes, too.

 

[DukeSox]

Checking in on dear old Kyle Singler, he's getting 10 pts and 3 rbs in about 25 min a game for the Pistons, while shooting 53%. Started the past 7 games.

On Monday he had 16 pts, 10 rbs, 5 assists, a block and 2 steals in 36 minutes. Not too shabby.

And he's still getting buckets (last "shot" is pretty sick):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFtOQpYUTzI

 

[Greg29fan]

hats off to Duke, that looks like a championship caliber team

 

[DukeSox]

any other top 5 teams want to play a game of basketball?

duke just beat 3 teams from last years final four

 

[DukeSox]

Check out Cook jump with Mason, ha!

 

[tims4wins]

Sulaimon and Cook are the key to this team. Can't believe how much Mason has improved. This team has a legit shot in a down year.

 

[DukeSox]

Mason Plumlee back to Duke for senior season. Better than having him gone, but not a huge deal in my book. Next year is going to be a charle foxtrot anyway, unless duke lucks out and gets some new players (Parker?) to announce for Duke tomorrow night.

lol boo hoo