2013-2014 15-501 Hoops (aka Duke/UNC and general ACC hoops talk)
- Thread starter tims4wins
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Just realized/remembered that Austin Rivers is coming to Boston Wednesday. Saw that he only played 3+ minutes last game v. NYK, 4+ the one before. In January he's shotting 13% from the floor. Is there a reason all these Duke All-Americans aren't developing for the next level?
Well, define "all these Duke All-Americans."
Kyrie Irving is a 20+ PER player in the NBA. Duke had a reputation, in the past, of not preparing players for the NBA but that was unfounded and just a product of bad luck.
Carolina has not fared well with the NBA recently. Sean May and Rashad McCants are out of the league from Roy's first championship team. Then you have Felton (good), Marvin Williams (disappointing), Tyler Hansbrough (fine), Danny Green (good), Brandan Wright (not good), Ty Lawson (great), Wayne Ellington (pretty good), Ed Davis (disappointment), Tyler Zeller (serviceable), John Henson (ok), Harrison Barnes (good, I guess), Kendall Marshall (not good to even play yet)
Edit - Just looked at this years stats and it seems Ed Davis is actually playing really well and Wayne Ellington is not as good as I thought. So I guess Carolina has an OK presence in the NBA, but to the original point, I don't think Duke deserves the flack it gets to the extent it still does. Austin Rivers, for anyone who watched him last year, was not ready and was an asshole.
Kyrie Irving is a 20+ PER player in the NBA. Duke had a reputation, in the past, of not preparing players for the NBA but that was unfounded and just a product of bad luck.
Carolina has not fared well with the NBA recently. Sean May and Rashad McCants are out of the league from Roy's first championship team. Then you have Felton (good), Marvin Williams (disappointing), Tyler Hansbrough (fine), Danny Green (good), Brandan Wright (not good), Ty Lawson (great), Wayne Ellington (pretty good), Ed Davis (disappointment), Tyler Zeller (serviceable), John Henson (ok), Harrison Barnes (good, I guess), Kendall Marshall (not good to even play yet)
Edit - Just looked at this years stats and it seems Ed Davis is actually playing really well and Wayne Ellington is not as good as I thought. So I guess Carolina has an OK presence in the NBA, but to the original point, I don't think Duke deserves the flack it gets to the extent it still does. Austin Rivers, for anyone who watched him last year, was not ready and was an asshole.
Duke has the most players in the NBA and the highest paid players of any college.
You are an unobservant clown.
I think Kentucky has more than Duke.
edit - Looks like Kentucky and Duke are tied with 19, Carolina with 17
edit - Looks like Kentucky and Duke are tied with 19, Carolina with 17
last I knew Duke had the most, but that number (along with KY, UNC, etc.) fluctuates depending on which marginal players bounce from D league to rosters, etc.
the point is clear, though. as is DtTtB's lame attempt at stirring the pot.
the point is clear, though. as is DtTtB's lame attempt at stirring the pot.
UNC picked up a big 2014 recruit yesterday when PG Joel Berry committed The point guard position is getting kind of backed up with Marcus Paige, Nate Britt (2013) and Berry but point guard play is vital to Roy's offense so I'd rather have too many than not enough.
Can any of your ACC guys explain what happened to Wake, they were a really good program in the 90's and early 2000's and just seemed to have fallen off the map the last few years.
They were strong under Odom before Prosser, though. They even had some success under Gaudio (albeit with Prosser's recruits); in 2008-9 they were ranked #1 at one point and beat UNC and Duke. In 2009-10 they were still respectable and beat UNC en route to the NCAA tournament. Not championship-competitive stuff, but enough that you wouldn't ask what happened to the program. It was the next year, when Bzdelik came in, that they fell completely off a cliff, losing 15 ACC games.
At this point I think it's unclear whether it's mainly Bzdelik who's the problem or whether there's something more systemic.
At this point I think it's unclear whether it's mainly Bzdelik who's the problem or whether there's something more systemic.
Duke always entered the season incredibly prepared -- near their peak as a team.
Most other teams look like it's the first time they've played together, for the first few weeks of the season, then they get better throughout the season.
So for Miami, you can either credit great coaching improving a team that lose those first few games....or, more likely, you can blame a crappy coach who didn't do the work to get his team ready for the season over the summer.
Most other teams look like it's the first time they've played together, for the first few weeks of the season, then they get better throughout the season.
So for Miami, you can either credit great coaching improving a team that lose those first few games....or, more likely, you can blame a crappy coach who didn't do the work to get his team ready for the season over the summer.
Not to derail the enjoyment of this Duke loss, but the answer to this is Coach Buzz. Dino Gaudio was a hell of a recruiter even if he couldn't really coach much. The offseason in which he was fired, he had a great recruiting class. They canned Dino and brought in Buzz supposedly because they wanted an X's and O's guy, but in truth it was because he was bff with the AD going back for some time. So the AD gets his man and all Gaudio's recruits stay, and now they have their X's and O's coach to coach them up. Except a funny thing happened. The freshman core couldn't put it together, Buzz didn't help them progress at all, a few of them got in big trouble and transferred out, and Buzz couldn't recruit his way out of a paper bag. Thus, the current team consists of the remnants of the program. It's pretty clear to a lot on campus that before this team is going to lift itself out of the ACC basement, Buzz has to go. Basketball should be the sport that raises Wake's profile, as football is mired in mediocrity, but that simply hasn't been the case. And that's why kids at an ACC school suddenly rush the court over a win over a #18 non-rival team.SumnerH said:
When's the last time the #1 ranked team lost by 27 points or more? Was this a historic Duke loss tonight?
third worst loss ever for an AP #1 ranked team, tied for the sixth biggest loss in the Coach K era and tied for their largest loss since UNLV beat them by 30 in the national title game in 1990
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/24/3808557/observations-duke-loss-among-worst.html
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/73718/hurricanes-hand-duke-historic-loss
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/24/3808557/observations-duke-loss-among-worst.html
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/73718/hurricanes-hand-duke-historic-loss
That's funny you say that because Joel James was, to me, one of the bright spots of the early season. I know his play wasn't great in the sense that he was constantly out of position, making dumb fouls and huffing and puffing down the court BUT I just think he has a ton of potential. Like, I think he may be an NBA player after 4 years. He's been playing hoops for three years, he's lost 60 pounds already and his frame and size is tremendous. As the announcers mentioned last night he already has a beautiful shot. So really, to me, all of his flaws are easily coachable. He needs to learn the game, continue to get in better shape and get fucking tough. But I really like what he could be in the years to come.Greg29fan said:
Paige is the one I still just don't know about. Yes, he's gotten better and more assertive but it's the coming years that have me shaking my head. Nate Britt is, right now, better than Marcus Paige. So what do we do next year? And then we went and signed the top PG in the class after that as well? None of those three guys are players you can hide at shooting guard (maybe Paige but it would be a waste on the defensive end and we will pretty much always have a better offensive option).
I'm curious what Roy's long term plan is with these guys. I understand that you grab the best players but his system is dependant on an elite PG and that PG usually plays the most minutes and runs everything. How is he going to keep them all happy?
Of the Freshmen I swear to Christ I think Tokoto is the best player. They all make freshmen mistakes but this guy is Danny Green all over again, the length, the defense. His passing is fantastic, possibly already the best on the team.
Maryland at Duke coming up at 1 PM EST, in what is always a fun game. Maryland has performed pretty well against subpar competition, and struggled against good teams (losses to UNC, Miami, Fla St, and Kentucky).
The big key should be seeing which Alex Len shows up today, the 23 point, 4 block performance against Kentucky, or the 10 point, 1 block game against UNC.
If his head is in the game today, I could see Maryland pulling off the upset.
The big key should be seeing which Alex Len shows up today, the 23 point, 4 block performance against Kentucky, or the 10 point, 1 block game against UNC.
If his head is in the game today, I could see Maryland pulling off the upset.
Duke usually plays well coming off losses, and they got embarrassed on Wednesday night, but they're simply not the same team without R Kelly. I think this one goes to the wire.
And after State built it back to 17, it's now down to 7 with under a minute to play. Heels out of time outs.
They did the same thing in Maui in November against Butler. Nothing has really changed.Greg29fan said:
true, I mean they are what they are, when Hairston and Bullock make shots like they did in the second half they can compete and maybe beat most teams out there but when they're ice cold like they were the last ten or 12 minutes of the first half it looks like they couldn't beat anybody.