2014 Denver Broncos: Popping Mollies and Adderrall

[RedOctober3829]

Did not see a thread for Broncos news and notes.
 

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 6m
Ronnie Hillman Wes Welker practicing
 

Welker is practicing today.  Very surprising to me that he could be ready to go this early.
 
Rapsheet clears it up a bit more by saying he is not cleared for contact yet.
 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 12s
#Broncos WR Wes Welker (concussion) takes the next step today, on the field for practice. Hasn't yet been cleared to play or for contact
 

 

[Leather]

He's really playing with fire.

 

[bankshot1]

Welker should have his head examined.
 
In another Bronco related item, saw this in today's Globe
 
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/09/01/best-worst-scenarios-for-all-nfl-teams/z8IDOKaMSjsMNeoVER8RIJ/story.html

 

The reloaded Broncos look on paper like the type of team that can try to capture what the 2007 Patriots couldn’t....
 
Projection: 13-3. Beats Baltimore in divisional playoffs and New England in AFC title game, then beats Green Bay in Super Bowl XLIX.
 

 

[bradmahn]

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/82525-2014-broncos-their-last-ride/#entry5328047

 

[j-man]

i posted a broncos thread on here but could not find it   

 

[j-man]

this can be the new broncos thead  

 

[j-man]

QB - Denver is Deep here Manning cannot top what he did last year  but Brock Q looks much better this year then the last 2 years   After Manning Denver might not drop off the face of the earth    like i feared   
 
RB  M Ball  couild be a 1'100 yard rusher  but R Hillman looked stronger faster in preseason just can he hold on to the ball    and Jumun Thompson  flashed very well and is a power back    FB is V Green but we only use a FB 25 % of the time 
 
WR/TE  D Thomas is a top 5 wr and can do it all   E Sanders adds a speed epment to Den pass attick   and when wekler goes down we have 2 plans  A use Jacob Tamme as a hybrid   or B Move Sanders in the Slot and put C Latiter on the outside    he is raw but in 2015 could be a star   
 
OL with Clady back our Pass Pro should be a lot better Run Blocking could be a worry but Denver is showing to be more physical this preseason 
 
DL  Denver goes 8 deep here  D Ware has been outstanding so far but a guy to watch out for is DE M Jackson  who got 6 Sacks in limited playing time DT T Khington is top 10 DT and Sly williams and Marvin austin forms a deep DT core   
 
LB we are thin here but when we get Danny T back  he is our QB Spy a LB with a lot of speed   and can cover RB  as well   our starting 3 LB can match with anyone   
 
CB Tabilb u know what he can do  but our secret weapon is Chris Harris JR  can cover a slot or a outside WR   Roby is a guy who flashed this preseason but should start in 15  
 
S Ward will hit and is kind of a LB playing S R Moore is good not great  
 
K/P  we are shaky here  and if we get into a  close game we could lose it because mcmanus is raw big leg but no acc   and our P Sucks  
 
 
If denver starts 3-1 4-0 we will be hard to beat in the afc   because SF when they play us  with be without A Smith  N Bowman and maybe R Macdonald  After Week 9 Denver will most likely win 7 of their last 8 games  this looks like a 13 win team maybe 14 if we can beat @ Ciny in week 16   

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Welker should have his head examined.
 
In another Bronco related item, saw this in today's Globe
 
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/09/01/best-worst-scenarios-for-all-nfl-teams/z8IDOKaMSjsMNeoVER8RIJ/story.html
 

This quote would make so little sense if there were no such thing as click-bait.

 

[bakahump]

I am more pessimistic.
 
IMHO The Trevathan injury hurts them more then many are suggesting.
Those first 5-8 weeks will be tough games without him.
 
Peyton and Welker ....ok mostly Welker are "one hit away"(even more so then most other players in the league...).
Peyton is another year older.  It will be interesting to see if he is good for only 3-4 ducks a game...or if that number increases.
The Thomas's are REALLY good.
Von Miller is Crazy...and I would be worried sick week to week about him.  When he plays he is VERY VERY good.....but if he does something stupid....
The week 4 bye doesnt do them any favors (other then shortening the Trevathan window) in regards to Talib and Manning.
Their D was average last year.....and appear to be so again this year.  Granted with the kind of offense they are capable of....thats usually enough.
 
I think J-Man is right in that the first 4-6 weeks sets the stage.  If they get 2 losses I think the Pats and perhaps Colts beat them for HFA.....which for Denver is bad.
 
Of course HFA is a double edged sword as Peyton isnt in a Dome come Playoffs anymore. (Even considering last year.  Look at the 41 degree Game against the Chargers.  They won....but they didnt exactly light it up. And do we think the AFC Championship game will be 60+ degrees if its in Denver on Jan 19th again?)

 

[Toe Nash]

Welker suspended 4 games for amphetamines.
 
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/506937895249522688

 

[j-man]

I am more pessimistic.
 
IMHO The Trevathan injury hurts them more then many are suggesting.
Those first 5-8 weeks will be tough games without him.
 
Peyton and Welker ....ok mostly Welker are "one hit away"(even more so then most other players in the league...).
Peyton is another year older.  It will be interesting to see if he is good for only 3-4 ducks a game...or if that number increases.
The Thomas's are REALLY good.
Von Miller is Crazy...and I would be worried sick week to week about him.  When he plays he is VERY VERY good.....but if he does something stupid....
The week 4 bye doesnt do them any favors (other then shortening the Trevathan window) in regards to Talib and Manning.
Their D was average last year.....and appear to be so again this year.  Granted with the kind of offense they are capable of....thats usually enough.
 
I think J-Man is right in that the first 4-6 weeks sets the stage.  If they get 2 losses I think the Pats and perhaps Colts beat them for HFA.....which for Denver is bad.
 
Of course HFA is a double edged sword as Peyton isnt in a Dome come Playoffs anymore. (Even considering last year.  Look at the 41 degree Game against the Chargers.  They won....but they didnt exactly light it up. And do we think the AFC Championship game will be 60+ degrees if its in Denver on Jan 19th again?)

Trevathan should be back for the  Zona  game  Manning seems to have a little bit stronger arm This year  yes miller could do something stupid but D Ware is trying to be a big bro off the field     
 
D is Average i disagree   unless inj happened rem they were a top 3 D in 2012    Prater 4 game ban could really hurt us      

 

[86spike]

The Welker fiasco is being covered in its own thread. I actually think Sanders will be great in the slot and Cody Latimer will surprise on the outside which will lessen the blow of losing WW.

I also disagree that Denver's Defense is average. The only subpar unit is the LB corps, which will get a boost when Trevathan is healthy. The D-Line may be one of the best units in the league and the secondary looks nothing like it did in the SB embarrassment. They won't be great at stuffing the run, but if the offense does it's thing, opponents will need to throw anyway which plays into Denver's defensive strengths.

Can it just be Sunday already?

 

[soxfan121]

What kind of depth is there at CB? You know, cause that's the guy playing in important games at the end of the season. 

 

[Rook05]

Totally agree on Latimer. He's had a strong camp thus far and has been pegged by some as a miniDT. Sanders in the slot makes sense on paper, but he's got enough speed to blow the top off a defense, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Tamme in that role.

Edit: All that said, DEN doesn't have a ton of defensive depth. In fact, WR aside, this is a very top heavy team.

 

[86spike]

What kind of depth is there at CB? You know, cause that's the guy playing in important games at the end of the season. 

Starters: Talib and Harris (super underrated player, BTW)

Second-string/nickel/dime guys: Bradley Roby (rookie first round pick who has looked good in PS), Kayvon Webster

Third string: Omar Bolden, Tony Carter

I'm not sweating CB depth.

 

[j-man]

Totally agree on Latimer. He's had a strong camp thus far and has been pegged by some as a miniDT. Sanders in the slot makes sense on paper, but he's got enough speed to blow the top off a defense, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Tamme in that role.

Edit: All that said, DEN doesn't have a ton of defensive depth. In fact, WR aside, this is a very top heavy team.

i disagree very much we are deep everywhere but O-Line   and QB 

 

[86spike]

Denver's pass rush can be referred to as Von Ware Wolfe.

Hell yeah.

 

[bradmahn]

Considering the depth at CB and WR referenced here is fully reliant on two rookies being able to come in and contribute at a high level from day one, color me skeptical. Those are two of the positions with the steepest learning curves in the NFL.

 

[86spike]

Considering the depth at CB and WR referenced here is fully reliant on two rookies being able to come in and contribute at a high level from day one, color me skeptical. Those are two of the positions with the steepest learning curves in the NFL.

From day one?

They will need those guys for more than part time duty only if there are injuries/suspensions (which has come true in the case of the WR).

 

[j-man]

Considering the depth at CB and WR referenced here is fully reliant on two rookies being able to come in and contribute at a high level from day one, color me skeptical. Those are two of the positions with the steepest learning curves in the NFL.

cody Latimer might be the off rook of the year now   Roby will be hit or miss  but we made it to the super bowl with weak cb play in the last haif of the season 

 

[bradmahn]

Second-string/nickel/dime guys: Bradley Roby (rookie first round pick who has looked good in PS), Kayvon Webster

  

From day one?
They will need those guys for more than part time duty only if there are injuries/suspensions (which has come true in the case of the WR).

Do they plan on only running two CBs out there in game one? If you don't think they're counting on Roby from day one, drop him down the depth chart. I'm only commenting on what has been posted in this thread by Broncos fans (namely you).

 

[j-man]

From day one?

They will need those guys for more than part time duty only if there are injuries/suspensions (which has come true in the case of the WR).

they are just trying to get a rise out of us  spike  i love our roster 1-45   if bill b could he would switch teams with us only taking Brady julian e  solder wilfork c jones rob n mayo j collins revis and devin m   with him 

 

[j-man]

  
Do they plan on only running two CBs out there in game one? If you don't think they're counting on Roby from day one, drop him down the depth chart. I'm only commenting on what has been posted in this thread by Broncos fans (namely you).

roby will be our nickel but plob dime early  as tony carter and bolden might get more snaps early K  webster  has food poison   

 

[riboflav]

they are just trying to get a rise out of us  spike  i love our roster 1-45   if bill b could he would switch teams with us only taking Brady julian e  solder wilfork c jones rob n mayo j collins revis and devin m   with him 

 
Heck if you add Gronk that's exactly half the starters in Denver BB would replace with his own guys. This doesn't even touch upon the kicking and return game.

 

[bradmahn]

they are just trying to get a rise out of us  spike  i love our roster 1-45   if bill b could he would switch teams with us only taking Brady julian e  solder wilfork c jones rob n mayo j collins revis and devin m   with him

Talk about risible....

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Starters: Talib and Harris (super underrated player, BTW)

Second-string/nickel/dime guys: Bradley Roby (rookie first round pick who has looked good in PS), Kayvon Webster

Third string: Omar Bolden, Tony Carter

I'm not sweating CB depth.

Agreed on Harris, who is terrific and very underrated league wide (at least among fans, anyway.
 
I disagree with Bradley Roby looking good, although I have an inherent distrust of young corners.  Webster and Bolden are just depth guys, nothing more, nothing less.  I actually think Carter is better than the Denver coaching staff and/or FO thinks, but he made some crucial mistakes as a youngster and seemed to lose the trust of Del Rio, in particular.  
 
I don't think depth at CB is a huge problem, but I don't see it being a strength, either.  Any major improvements in the Broncos secondary this year, if they happen, will occur at the safety positions, not at CB, imo.
 
And on this note, while Talib is quite solid, obviously, he is replacing DRC, who played at a vary high level last year.  As such, I don't think he will offer an upgrade, but rather a more sure bet in 2014 (in other words, I think it is reasonable to expect Talib to outplay DRC this year, but given the high level DRC played at for Denver last year, expecting Talib's 2014 to exceed DRC's 2013 and thus, make Denver's D much better, is wishful thinking)

 

[Reverend]

Talk about risible....

You didn't take the bait on this when a Bronco fan led with Brady, did you?

Their guy is pretty ok too.

 

[Reverend]

Starters: Talib and Harris (super underrated player, BTW)

Second-string/nickel/dime guys: Bradley Roby (rookie first round pick who has looked good in PS), Kayvon Webster

Third string: Omar Bolden, Tony Carter

I'm not sweating CB depth.

I believe he was taking a bitterly mocking shot at Talib's ability to finish the season healthy.

I guess it's preseason all over.

 

[bakahump]

Welker, Trevathan Prater (yea forgot about him J-Man....hes a Kicker   )  all out for (at least) 25% of the season.
 
And they havent played a game yet.
 
Good news is they still have Talib waiting in the wings to join them.
 
Not trying to be snarky (much).  But this team could be the juggernaut they were last year.....or they could be a 10 win team just fighting to win the division.  A few more injuries and goodbye season.  Of course that would have to be something truly devastating like losing Manning....and to be fair any team in the league would be screwed  if the starting qb goes down.
 
if you believe in luck though....it doesnt seem like the Broncos have it this year.

 

[soxfan121]

I believe he was taking a bitterly mocking shot at Talib's ability to finish the season healthy.

 
Well that and Harris (who is terrific) is coming off an ACL tear suffered really late in the season. Later than Gronk, FWIW, although it doesn't sound like the damage was as extensive. (If only we had someone who knew about such thing and could explain them...)
 
But yes, Denver fans have every right to be pumped up about what Talib will bring when he is healthy. But they should also be prepared for him to let them down when it matters most. It is what he does. He's gonna get an ouchie and then he's going to re-injure that ouchie in playoffs. 
 
So Bradley Roby better be ready by January. Because I've seen Tony Carter play CB and it reminds me of Duane Starks' Last Stand with NE many years ago. B-A-D.

 

[Stitch01]

 
Well that and Harris (who is terrific) is coming off an ACL tear suffered really late in the season. Later than Gronk, FWIW, although it doesn't sound like the damage was as extensive. (If only we had someone who knew about such thing and could explain them...)
 
But yes, Denver fans have every right to be pumped up about what Talib will bring when he is healthy. But they should also be prepared for him to let them down when it matters most. It is what he does. He's gonna get an ouchie and then he's going to re-injure that ouchie in playoffs. 
 
So Bradley Roby better be ready by January. Because I've seen Tony Carter play CB and it reminds me of Duane Starks' Last Stand with NE many years ago. B-A-D.

A little overstated based on a small sample size,  Im still excited about Gronk this year and that's a very similar situation.
 
Ward is the big upgrade for the Denver defense IMO.  Talib just replaces DRC.

 

[soxfan121]

A little overstated based on a small sample size,  Im still excited about Gronk this year and that's a very similar situation.

 
No. Talib hasn't finished a season healthy in this decade. That's a significant sample size. 
 
Gronk is similar - but less extensive and thus, a smaller sample size - and I'd have no argument if someone made that point in the TE thread. I worry about it constantly.

 

[johnmd20]

This is a fantastic thread title now.

 

[Toe Nash]

I don't expect Talib to play 16+ games but I don't see why he'd be more likely to get injured in the playoffs as opposed to any other time. He missed games in the middle of 2012 and 2013, and was relatively healty for the first playoff game both years.

 

[soxfan121]

I don't expect Talib to play 16+ games but I don't see why he'd be more likely to get injured in the playoffs as opposed to any other time. He missed games in the middle of 2012 and 2013, and was relatively healty for the first playoff game both years.

 
In this post from February, I detailed Talib's injury history. 
 
 

Aqib Talib will be 28 years old during the 2014 season. He has not played a full regular season (16 games) in any season of NFL career. His games played by year:
2008 - 15 (hamstring)
2009 - 15 (suspension)
2010 - 11  (hip)
2011 - 13 (hamstring/knee)
2012 - 10 (suspension/hip)
2013 - 13 (hip)
 
Suffice to say, the hip is a problem. Unlike some other players who are considered injury prone, Talib really IS prone to hip injuries. If that 2011 injury is at all connected to the hip bone, he's hurt that body part four times in four seasons. 

 
Talib said:
 

So what happened with Talib's hip? It was never injured during Talib's one and a half seasons in New England, even though the Patriots said it was. Talib was listed on several weekly injury reports in 2013 with a hip injury that was non-existent.
 
"The Patriots have their way of reporting stuff, but I haven't had a hip problem since Tampa," Talib said. "The injury I had was actually a quad injury. It was reported as a hip injury, but that's how they do things."
 

 
Now, you can choose to believe Talib that his hip is fine; it's the quad that's the problem. OK, Aqib. But you don't have to spend $10 to find out that the quad is an upper leg muscle that connects to ... the hip bone (sing it!). 
 
He has leg problems. He has had leg problems his whole career and he has never played 16 healthy games. His injuries have been of the repetitive/wear-and-tear variety, as the have all happened some way into a season and haven't involved broken bones from an awkward fall or something else "fluky". 
 
Make of it what you will. Personally, it was why I was ecstatic Talib left for Denver. He's a good player. But he's always getting older and he was never healthy when he was young.

 

[Toe Nash]

 

 
Make of it what you will. Personally, it was why I was ecstatic Talib left for Denver. He's a good player. But he's always getting older and he was never healthy when he was young.

 

You totally missed my point. I am aware of all this. But he has managed to play many games at a high level. 
 
Please read again. I don't expect him to be healthy for all the games, but I also don't see a reason why he will be hurt specifically in the playoffs.
 
Maybe the wear and tear of a full season is too much and he always breaks down by the end? Except, he made it on the field and played fine for the first playoff game each time. It seems to me like his injuries are always an issue, but they have been more or less managed, except in what happened to be the final game both years he re-injured it (once when Welker ran into him). 

 

[soxfan121]

You totally missed my point. I am aware of all this. But he has managed to play many games at a high level. 
 
Please read again. I don't expect him to be healthy for all the games, but I also don't see a reason why he will be hurt specifically in the playoffs.
 
Maybe the wear and tear of a full season is too much and he always breaks down by the end? Except, he made it on the field and played fine for the first playoff game each time. It seems to me like his injuries are always an issue, but they have been more or less managed, except in what happened to be the final game both years he re-injured it (once when Welker ran into him). 

 
We are talking past each other. I specifically mentioned wear and tear as the reason he will more likely than not be hurt "specifically" at the end of the season. The nature of his injuries and their frequency are the type to more likely be chronic and repetitive.
 
His injuries have not been "more or less managed" or he would finish the last game. He has not finished a season healthy for four consecutive seasons and the only one of six in his career he has was when he was suspended. 
 
Do you want to put money down in Vegas on "Aqib Talib will play 60 minutes of his final game of the season"? I don't.

 

[86spike]

Welker, Trevathan Prater (yea forgot about him J-Man....hes a Kicker   )  all out for (at least) 25% of the season.
 
And they havent played a game yet.
 
Good news is they still have Talib waiting in the wings to join them.
 
Not trying to be snarky (much).  But this team could be the juggernaut they were last year.....or they could be a 10 win team just fighting to win the division.  A few more injuries and goodbye season.  Of course that would have to be something truly devastating like losing Manning....and to be fair any team in the league would be screwed  if the starting qb goes down.
 
if you believe in luck though....it doesnt seem like the Broncos have it this year.

 
Great teams overcome losing players.  Last year's Broncos team lost key players along the way and overcame it all the way to an assraping in the Super Bowl. 
 
We will soon see how they fare without Welker, Prater and Trevathan (although, as j-man pointed out, Trevathan will likely be back after only missing a couple of regular season games).  Three of the four suspension games for Welker and Prater are home games.  The road game is Seattle, which was already going to be hardest game to win on their schedule all season.

 

[Stitch01]

 
We are talking past each other. I specifically mentioned wear and tear as the reason he will more likely than not be hurt "specifically" at the end of the season. The nature of his injuries and their frequency are the type to more likely be chronic and repetitive.
 
His injuries have not been "more or less managed" or he would finish the last game. He has not finished a season healthy for four consecutive seasons and the only one of six in his career he has was when he was suspended. 
 
Do you want to put money down in Vegas on "Aqib Talib will play 60 minutes of his final game of the season"? I don't.

Yeah, Id pretty happily bet that at even money actually.

 

[Toe Nash]

 
We are talking past each other. I specifically mentioned wear and tear as the reason he will more likely than not be hurt "specifically" at the end of the season. The nature of his injuries and their frequency are the type to more likely be chronic and repetitive.
 
His injuries have not been "more or less managed" or he would finish the last game. He has not finished a season healthy for four consecutive seasons and the only one of six in his career he has was when he was suspended. 
 
Do you want to put money down in Vegas on "Aqib Talib will play 60 minutes of his final game of the season"? I don't.

If the Pats had lost in the first round, or not made the playoffs at all, he would have finished the season healthy (if that criteria is playing 60 minutes). Is there something special about the AFC Championship?
 
He actually played 73.4% of the Patriots' defensive snaps last year, which was more than any other DB except McCourty. Seems like they managed it OK until he got picked by Welker.
 
He's more apt to get banged up and have to leave a game than (some? most?) other players, sure. But there's not really anything that is telling me that is bound to happen in the most important game of the year.

 

[soxfan121]

He's more apt to get banged up and have to leave a game than (some? most?) other players, sure. But there's not really anything that is telling me that is bound to happen in the most important game of the year.

 
Other than the fact that it happens every single year, sure. 
 
I mean, I'm aware that correlation does not equal causation but I also subscribe to the wisdom that things that happen more than three times in a row constitute a trend. 
 
It sure is possible he's healthy and his leg problems are behind him and he plays in the playoffs (ALL the playoffs). But unlike Stitch01, I think there's enough evidence to suggest it will happen again.

 

[Stitch01]

I think the evidence suggests its more likely he gets hurt than the average player, but far from a near certainty he's hurt come playoff time.

 

[soxfan121]

I think the evidence suggests its more likely he gets hurt than the average player, but far from a near certainty he's hurt come playoff time.

 
So ye olde "random distribution" objection? I can buy that. He's just as likely to hurt himself in week 2 as week 15. 
 
Still, were I betting man (and I am not) we'd have a Jimmy Fund wager. Instead, I just gave my $10 to the Jimmy Fund and if I end up being right at the end of the season, I'll stiff DRS on a co-pay.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 19s20 seconds ago
Danny Trevathan fracture above the left knee. He missed 7 weeks last time.
 

 

[86spike]

 

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 19s20 seconds ago
Danny Trevathan fracture above the left knee. He missed 7 weeks last time.
 

 

 
dislocated his kneecap which caused a small fracture in the leg.  3-6 weeks.  Totally separate injury from last time.
 
Dude needs to drink more milk.

 

[Stitch01]

Now with more Vitamin R.

 

[j-man]

mayo and ridley are worse losses   for u  Ball is just Ok while denver is deep at lb  with Brandon marshall and coney nelon   

 

[tims4wins]

It's more of an offseason issue, but the Broncos tabled talks with the Thomases
 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11748796/denver-broncos-end-season-contract-talk-demaryius-thomas-julius-thomas
 
Welker is also a free agent after this year, will be very interesting to see what that offense looks like next year. Maybe if Peyton drops another playoff turd he will just retire.

 

[Toe Nash]

Chris Harris' contract will also be up, and Peyton's cap hit goes from $17.5m to $21.5m. 

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Denarius Thomas is also a free agent.

Welker is all but gone, but even so, I don't think Denver can afford to keep both Thomases and Harris