2014 Denver Broncos: Popping Mollies and Adderrall

[Just a bit outside]

One point on next year - there is a decent chance the Broncos lose one of the Thomases and Welker. That is going to hurt them, no doubt. I would bet on the Pats having better personnel next year to be honest.

Chris Harris is also a free agent and has been having a good year.

 

[lambeau]

Elway absolutely rolled BB last winter. I don't understand it. Partly I do--Ware was a riverboat gambler move that you make if you're embarrassed, and feel you have to go all in. But won't BB feel that way after next Sunday?
Sanders, Welker, and TJ Ward were just not that expensive; I can only think BB gets too cute with his value analysis while Elway steps up in the pocket and pulls the trigger. You have to admire him.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Elway 
 

Career GM comparisons are premature. It would be unfairly skewed in Elway's favor. He has not been at it long enough, and time usually exposes everyone.

I simply said that Elway is doing better than BB when both guys have a short fuse. I think the Broncos' personnel were superior last year, are this year, and almost certainly will be next year barring something unforeseen. And unlike the situations with Seattle and SF, Elway does not have the cap benefit of a QB on a rookie deal -- a point frequently made by us when distinguishing Seattle and SF.

BB has been hurt by luck -- AH -- but also by draft classes that may have regressed, but in any case have not produced dominant players. His recent FA classes have not been strong.

There is no joy in this. Denver is a longstanding rival, and although Peyton is a brilliant workaholic worthy of everyone's respect, he also has more than a few earmarks of a first class asshole. Then again, I despise self anointed and entitled royalty, so maybe it's just me.

Elway I can't hate, even though there are still wounds from his torching us on the field. So far, he is one of the few HOFs in any sport who has managed to do a really nice job as an executive.

 
Elway benefits from Von Miller's vastly undermarket deal instead of the QBs, which we can't really give him much credit for since Miller was such a high pick. 
 
A major different is philosophical, too---short term vs long term.   I think Elway did a great job last offseason.  I also think Elway has been more pure about building a team to compete with Peyton, future years be damned, than BB has.   I'm not sure it's wrong; much as I love BB, I do think there's a case to be made that being conservative about longer-term commitments/playing for short term actually doesn't optimize chances overall.  But the Pats dozen year track record of success and clean cap sheet makes a strong case the other way

 

[Silverdude2167]

I am not ready to crown Elway as a great GM yet. He came in to a team stacked with talent added Manning then went out and spent money.
It is not like they have had great drafts since he took over and all the offensive talent was there before him with the exception of Welker and Maybe Julian Thomas (if he was involved in the 2011 draft).
 
His teams have been as successful as the Pats for 2 years, not sure how people can be saying that he has done a better job,
 
We have seen many teams and GM's come and go, while the Pats have always stayed. Lets see how Elway manages the next few years, where he cant go out and fix every problem in free agency.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Elway absolutely rolled BB last winter. I don't understand it. Partly I do--Ware was a riverboat gambler move that you make if you're embarrassed, and feel you have to go all in. But won't BB feel that way after next Sunday?
Sanders, Welker, and TJ Ward were just not that expensive; I can only think BB gets too cute with his value analysis while Elway steps up in the pocket and pulls the trigger. You have to admire him.

I don't understand why more interest wasn't put into Ward and Sanders over LaFell, but it's not like Belichick did nothing. He added Revis and was 6 million under the cap when camp started. The Patriots could not have afforded Ware.

 

[tims4wins]

Elway, with Peyton, has a 2-2 playoff record as GM. BB over the last two years has a 2-2 playoff record as GM. BB owns a 2-1 head to head advantage during this time period. Maybe Elway has rolled him but the results haven't exactly shown up on the field.

 

[JerBear]

 

[lambeau]

Elway has not had great drafts? From 2011 to 2013 he drafted 11 starters on now the #1 team: 2011 Von Miller, Rahim Moore, Orlando Franklin, Nate Irving,, Julius Thomas ; 2012 Derek Wolfe, Ronnie Hillman, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan; 2013 Sylvester Williams and Monte Ball. Plus for depth there's Kayvon Webster, Quinton Carter, Corey Nelson ...total of at least 21 on the roster drafted by Elway. Who's drafted better?

 

[Silverdude2167]

Elway has not had great drafts? From 2011 to 2013 he drafted 11 starters on now the #1 team: 2011 Von Miller, Rahim Moore, Orlando Franklin, Nate Irving,, Julius Thomas ; 2012 Derek Wolfe, Ronnie Hillman, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan; 2013 Sylvester Williams and Monte Ball. Plus for depth there's Kayvon Webster, Quinton Carter, Corey Nelson ...total of at least 21 on the roster drafted by Elway. Who's drafted better?

Sorry I was talking about the offensive side of the ball. Denver is all about that offense, and we can't give much credit to Elway for that. He was given a stacked deck when he walked in, why should we treat him as if he has "rolled" BB.

 

[j-man]

Denver will have about 45 mil in cap room  next year  yes 45 mil   but  as i tried to explain on Mile high report  we are going to lose a big name player or two  WR D Thomas will command  12-13 mil a year  TE J thomas 9 mil  a year  CB C Harris 11 mil    a year   and Khington around 8 mil    a year  what i wouild do if i was elway   cut tailb  that wouild save 7 mil  and be 4 mil in dead money  
 
also if denver wins the super bowl  say see ya to DE D Ware   i think it would save 5 mil   that would give elway 12 more mil  to sign role players  like LB N Iring   FS Q Carter  TE V Green    
 
Welker is gone  we have a guy named WR Cody latimer  that u will hear about in 2015        

 

[j-man]

Sorry I was talking about the offensive side of the ball. Denver is all about that offense, and we can't give much credit to Elway for that. He was given a stacked deck when he walked in, why should we treat him as if he has "rolled" BB.

Stacked deck   in 2010  denver only  had QB Tebow Orton RB K Moreno  WR A Raw D Thomas  A raw E Decker  WR B Lioyd a me first guy   NO TE'S only LTRc lady on the OL  Very little D outside of Champ Elvis D    Dawkins   
 
when elway got the job we might of had the worst roster in the NFL    

 

[j-man]

I don't understand why more interest wasn't put into Ward and Sanders over LaFell, but it's not like Belichick did nothing. He added Revis and was 6 million under the cap when camp started. The Patriots could not have afforded Ware.

U Should have signed Ward   he can bitlz  great in run support bring a nasty edge to the Def   

 

[dcmissle]

Stacked deck   in 2010  denver only  had QB Tebow Orton RB K Moreno  WR A Raw D Thomas  A raw E Decker  WR B Lioyd a me first guy   NO TE'S only LTRc lady on the OL  Very little D outside of Champ Elvis D    Dawkins   
 
when elway got the job we might of had the worst roster in the NFL    

Forget the Pats for a minute. That is pretty darn good on both sides of the ball and a damn sight better than what Shanahan put up the last 5 years or so. You're fortunate the owner had the wherewithal to cut the cord with a close friend.

 

[j-man]

Elway has not had great drafts? From 2011 to 2013 he drafted 11 starters on now the #1 team: 2011 Von Miller, Rahim Moore, Orlando Franklin, Nate Irving,, Julius Thomas ; 2012 Derek Wolfe, Ronnie Hillman, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan; 2013 Sylvester Williams and Monte Ball. Plus for depth there's Kayvon Webster, Quinton Carter, Corey Nelson ...total of at least 21 on the roster drafted by Elway. Who's drafted better?

i did some reserch   and Denver since 2011 has had 29 Draft picks  and Elway has hit on 14  included 7 in 2011   

 

[j-man]

Forget the Pats for a minute. That is pretty darn good on both sides of the ball and a damn sight better than what Shanahan put up the last 5 years or so. You're fortunate the owner had the wherewithal to cut the cord with a close friend.

bowlen was embarrassed because of what happened in london AGA SF in 2010  or McD would had got a 3rd year   and Manning would be a titian  right now   and denver wouild be in 8-8 9-7 land      

 

[dcmissle]

bowlen was embarrassed because of what happened in london AGA SF in 2010  or McD would had got a 3rd year   and Manning would be a titian  right now   and denver wouild be in 8-8 9-7 land      

Is it correct that McDaniels had final say on personnel including the draft? That's my impression even though he lacked the title.

 

[j-man]

the rise of denver manning not with standing comes down to 4 things     
 
Mcd Nailed the 2010 Draft   with Thomas Decker    
 
Elway  had a all time great draft in 2011      
 
Elway got lucky in FA in 13  when Elvis D left for the ravens   which allowed  elway to get  S Phillips and D Wolfe and M Jackson to grow        
 
Elway got Very Lucky when Jerry Jones had to cut D Ware   Denver was all set to offer the same deal to J Allen   which would  had not worked due to allen losing a step  

 

[j-man]

Is it correct that McDaniels had final say on personnel including the draft? That's my impression even though he lacked the title.

it is he had full power    

 

[j-man]

Career GM comparisons are premature. It would be unfairly skewed in Elway's favor. He has not been at it long enough, and time usually exposes everyone.

I simply said that Elway is doing better than BB when both guys have a short fuse. I think the Broncos' personnel were superior last year, are this year, and almost certainly will be next year barring something unforeseen. And unlike the situations with Seattle and SF, Elway does not have the cap benefit of a QB on a rookie deal -- a point frequently made by us when distinguishing Seattle and SF.

BB has been hurt by luck -- AH -- but also by draft classes that may have regressed, but in any case have not produced dominant players. His recent FA classes have not been strong.

There is no joy in this. Denver is a longstanding rival, and although Peyton is a brilliant workaholic worthy of everyone's respect, he also has more than a few earmarks of a first class asshole. Then again, I despise self anointed and entitled royalty, so maybe it's just me.

Elway I can't hate, even though there are still wounds from his torching us on the field. So far, he is one of the few HOFs in any sport who has managed to do a really nice job as an executive.

if it helps i  hated manning prior to 2012   and brady is the better QB anyway    

 

[soxfan121]

I don't understand why more interest wasn't put into Ward and Sanders over LaFell, but it's not like Belichick did nothing. 

 
Denver wanted LaFell and went to Sanders when Brandon decided on New England. 
 

it is he had full power    

 
No, McDaniels did not have full power over personnel. Brian Xanders did and the Smith debacle was Xanders decision. McDaniels was undoubtedly heavily consulted on offense but the idea that he was making all the calls or had "full power" is mistaken.

 

[shawnrbu]

 
Denver wanted LaFell and went to Sanders when Brandon decided on New England. 

 
The article says the Broncos rated Sanders higher than LaFell on their free agency board.  LaFell's demands increased to a point that Denver was not comfortable spending on a player of his caliber.  Instead, Denver made the decision to look away from LaFell and target Sanders in free agency. 

 

[Silverdude2167]

 
The article says the Broncos rated Sanders higher than LaFell on their free agency board.  LaFell's demands increased to a point that Denver was not comfortable spending on a player of his caliber.  Instead, Denver made the decision to look away from LaFell and target Sanders in free agency. 

Unless I am mistaken on Sanders game, LaFell and Sanders are completely different players. They could have rated Sanders higher, but felt the skill set LaFell brought to the table was a better fit for their needs.

 

[Phragle]

Elway absolutely rolled BB last winter. I don't understand it. Partly I do--Ware was a riverboat gambler move that you make if you're embarrassed, and feel you have to go all in. But won't BB feel that way after next Sunday?
Sanders, Welker, and TJ Ward were just not that expensive; I can only think BB gets too cute with his value analysis while Elway steps up in the pocket and pulls the trigger. You have to admire him.

 
Talib wasn't that expensive either. That early 6 year and 57 million report turned out to really be 2 years and 17.9.

 

[Dogman]

He is most likely cuttable without any cap hit after year one too. 

 

[mabrowndog]

Not that it really needs saying, but the SoSH Football Central Q&A with Troy Renck of the Denver Post is not just for Pats fans.
 
Pop on in and ask away

 

[Phragle]

Unless I am mistaken on Sanders game, LaFell and Sanders are completely different players. They could have rated Sanders higher, but felt the skill set LaFell brought to the table was a better fit for their needs.

 
It's true that they are different players, but as far as I understand it board rankings factor in fit.
 

He is most likely cuttable without any cap hit after year one too. 

 
Yeah if they wanted to cut him after the first year it would cost them 4 million in dead money and the cap hit for this year. So 1 year and 11.9 if that's what they want.
 
http://overthecap.com/player/aqib-talib/1624

 

[Devizier]

 
Talib wasn't that expensive either. That early 6 year and 57 million report turned out to really be 2 years and 17.9.

 
Given that Talib was looking awesome for the Patriots before he got hurt, the book isn't written on the Talib signing yet.

 

[soxfan121]

 
The article says the Broncos rated Sanders higher than LaFell on their free agency board.  LaFell's demands increased to a point that Denver was not comfortable spending on a player of his caliber.  Instead, Denver made the decision to look away from LaFell and target Sanders in free agency. 

 
Sure it does. It doesn't scan (IMO) to think that Denver went after the lower-rated player and only went after the higher rated player when the first guy proved to be expensive (~$11M) - less expensive than the higher-rated guy (~$18M). 
 
Underlying lots of things written about the Broncos is the hero-worship of Elway. Things gets re-phrased to emphasize how smart Elway is and how his decisions work out. 
 
But your mileage may vary on that. I'll stand by "Denver went after LaFell first" as a fact you can get out of that article and leave interpretation of why to others. 

 

[amarshal2]

 
It doesn't scan (IMO) to think that Denver went after the lower-rated player and only went after the higher rated player when the first guy proved to be expensive (~$11M) - less expensive than the higher-rated guy (~$18M). 

Of course it makes perfect sense and it's bizarre to suggest otherwise. Teams frequently think their top target is going to be too expensive and pursue a different option first to ensure they fill the hole at an affordable price.
 

 

[RedOctober3829]

Preliminary tests show that Broncos middle linebacker Nate Irving suffered an injury to the medial collateral ligament in his right knee, according to three NFL sources. More tests will be taken as there was considerable swelling in the knee area.
The Broncos hope Irving can avoid season-ending injured reserve.
 

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26855470/nate-irving-knee-injury

 

[Super Nomario]

Pats aren't the only team with OL issues:
 
Troy Renck @TroyRenck  ·  5m 5 minutes ago
No surprise that #broncos shaking up line. Just surprise at the number of players involved. Montgomery to C, Ramirez to RG, Vasquez to RT
 
Vasquez becomes the third RT on the year, after Chris Clark and Paul Cornick. Cornick apparently injured himself in practice Friday. Surprised they didn't just re-insert Clark, or move Orlando Franklin (who played RT last year) from LG.

 

[DanoooME]

 
Pats aren't the only team with OL issues:
 
Troy Renck @TroyRenck  ·  5m 5 minutes ago
No surprise that #broncos shaking up line. Just surprise at the number of players involved. Montgomery to C, Ramirez to RG, Vasquez to RT
 
Vasquez becomes the third RT on the year, after Chris Clark and Paul Cornick. Cornick apparently injured himself in practice Friday. Surprised they didn't just re-insert Clark, or move Orlando Franklin (who played RT last year) from LG.
 

 
They don't want to make the line worse.  He can't handle guard, let alone go back to tackle.  I don't know how he still has a job.  He's that bad.

 

[amarshal2]

 
They don't want to make the line worse.  He can't handle guard, let alone go back to tackle.  I don't know how he still has a job.  He's that bad.

I think it's his striking good looks highlighted by the perfect amount of space between his eyes.

 

[riboflav]

I have a love/hate relationship with the Internet. Today I love it.
 
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos_h264high/F60FCE10C41143375769897156608_SW_WEBM_14155762308512638623ebe.mp4?versionId=1VNqZTQ2k84tZxpgpVtulFwtvb6zuHL7

 

[Leather]

Tony Dungy complained that Denver was running up the score.
 
Oh, wait, no he didn't. 

 

[RedOctober3829]

C.J. Anderson emerged just in time. Montee Ball is returning from injury just in time.
The Broncos will be without Ronnie Hillman for at least two weeks after the starting running back suffered a midfoot sprain in his right foot Sunday, according to an NFL source.
 

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/11/10/ronnie-hillman-midfoot-sprain/30811/

 

[j-man]

Denver laid a egg @ NE   but unless u can get homefield over us  it will tough beating us in denver  but if the game is in NE u guys win   

 

[LuckyBen]

Denver laid a egg @ NE   but unless u can get homefield over us  it will tough beating us in denver  but if the game is in NE u guys win   

That's assuming mannings arm makes it the whole season.

 

[Marciano490]

That's assuming mannings arm makes it the whole season.

Why wouldn't it?

 

[soxfan121]

Why wouldn't it?

 
We are all just day-to-day, my friend. 
 
Maybe tomorrow Peyton loses control of his Buick and crashes it into a Papa John's and a case of Oreo cookies falls off a shelf and amputates his arm. 
 
It could happen.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
We are all just day-to-day, my friend. 
 
Maybe tomorrow Peyton loses control of his Buick and crashes it into a Papa John's and a case of Oreo cookies falls off a shelf and amputates his arm. 
 
It could happen.

Wouldn't matter. Nationwide is on his side.

 

[johnmd20]

Wouldn't matter. Nationwide is on his side.

 
DO THE JINGLE, DO THE JINGLE.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Pats aren't the only team with OL issues:
 
Troy Renck @TroyRenck  ·  5m 5 minutes ago
No surprise that #broncos shaking up line. Just surprise at the number of players involved. Montgomery to C, Ramirez to RG, Vasquez to RT
 
Vasquez becomes the third RT on the year, after Chris Clark and Paul Cornick. Cornick apparently injured himself in practice Friday. Surprised they didn't just re-insert Clark, or move Orlando Franklin (who played RT last year) from LG.

Apparently, they brought Incognito in for a workout yesterday. Maybe he and Peyton can swap notes on proper technique for rubbing their balls on unconsenting women.

 

[dcmissle]

The Broncos have admitted their concerns with their running game, and they may be taking a dramatic step in an effort to improve it.
 
According to Jay Glazer of FOX Sports, the Broncos are bringing free agent guard Richie Incognito for a workout and a visit.
The Broncos have some degree of familiarity with him from coaching him in the Pro Bowl, and this trip is likely about due diligence and seeing what kind of physical shape he’s in.
 
He’s had a few sniffs from other teams, but hasn’t latched on anywhere after the Dolphins bullying scandal which he was at the center of.
No one has been sufficiently desperate to call him yet, but if there’s a locker room that can withstand it, it’s the one led by quarterback Peyton Manning.
 

 
Per PFT.com.
 
The reaction here will be adorable if he is signed.  I won't be piling on because I half seriously suggested the Pats sign him.
 
Bottom line as things stand now  is that if Denver has to travel to Fox for a playoff game, it will be in a world of hurt -- and vice versa. 
 
So we have a no-holds-barred run to the finish, in which you may have to run the table to win.

 

[Stitch01]

Denver or NE will probably win on the road against each other about 35-40% of the time, not sure Id call that a world of hurt.

 

[dcmissle]

Is 10 a sufficient sample size for you?  Peyton 2 and 9 in his career at Foxboro.
 
EDIT -- And I believe Brady 2 and 5 at Denver. 

 

[Stitch01]

No, I don't have a ton of weight on 7 or 11 games being played in past seasons with basically none of the same players. 
 
Pats are more likely to win in Foxboro, Denver is more likely to win in Denver, but the road team is going to be 1 in 3 or (likely) a bit better to pull out a win.  I have a hard time calling it a world of hurt for either team if they reach a point where they're better than 1 in 3 to go to the Super Bowl.
 
Not to say getting homefield doesn't matter, going from like 1/3 to 2/3 in terms of win equity is pretty huge, but the road team winning that game based on where the teams are today wouldn't be very shocking

 

[RedOctober3829]

MRIs on Julius Thomas and Montee Ball will come tomorrow. Mike Klis speculates Ball will be out long-term and Thomas will miss at least the game against Miami. X-rays were negative on Thomas.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/11/16/x-rays-negative-julius-thomas-ankle-will-mri-monday-montee-ball-also-mri-groin-injury-monday/30911/

 

[bowiac]

Denver, in the future, you may want to avoid this list.

 

[snowmanny]

The Broncos Country game thread got a little grumpy - and slightly insane - towards the end of the game:
 
 
you can drink the kool-aid all you want. This team is not going anywhere this year. We are a disaster and it starts with Manning and the coaching staff
 
It was more fun watching Tebow, at least my expectations were low and enjoyed the games more. We'll now most likely have to play on the road in the playoffs...if we make it to the dance.
 
Manning is awful, I'm so done with him. Call this an over reaction, call it what you will. He gets stats, but has never been clutch, at all. Tim Tebow was more clutch than Manning ever was. I'm ready for Osweiler, Manning is a complete choke-artist!
 
Manning always had a pouty demeanor when a game doesn't go his way early. He is not a leader like Brady or Rodgers or Luck he doesn't fire his team up. Biggest fraud in professional sports