2014 Denver Broncos: Popping Mollies and Adderrall

[MentalDisabldLst]

As in, "He's our asshole, so we love him... but we can see that he's kind of an asshole, and get why other teams would hate him with particular fervor."
 
There were times I felt that about Youk, for example.

 

[dcmissle]

Manning irritates me greatly.  Cannot stand the endless commercials loop.  Hate the sense of family entitlement, reinforced by Pops, extending to Eli and facilitated by Polian in the Rules Committee.  Will never forget Peyton throwing his o-line under the bus.
 
But he is one of the GOATS.  If he in fact is on a steep slippery slope -- if this isn't a blip -- then it will be unfortunate.  I will be fascinated by the back story of this season, because something quite obviously is wrong and the story will come out.  You can only hide stuff for so long.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I've watched this like a 100 times and still can't believe the terribleness that was this throw.  It still would have been awful even if DT was coming back to the ball.
 

 
The key to beating any quarterback is pressure and disrupting his footwork and timing, but that seems especially true for Manning these days.  He's arguably the best QB on the planet when given a perfectly clean pocket.  But he's awful with any pressure.  He has neither the agility to improvise and move around the pocket (note that he doesn't even try to climb the pocket here when he senses pressure off the edge) nor the arm strength to make throws when his feet aren't set and he can't step into it.

 
What it looks like to me is that Manning is terrified of contact because he doesn't want to end up in a wheelchair, so rather than eat the ball for a sack or throw it away and take a hit, he'd rather just chuck it up in a spazfit. He did it on the first play of the game, as well, and was lucky it wasn't picked off.
 
 
 

if this isn't a blip

 
I doubt it's a blip. He's been terrible for a while, which just happened to coincide with the time where they "diversified their offense." With a healthy Manning, Denver's best shot is for him to throw a large majority of the snaps, and I have a really hard time believing Manning would even allow it to be any other way.
 
I personally think this is it for him; I don't think he's coming back next season.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 
What it looks like to me is that Manning is terrified of contact because he doesn't want to end up in a wheelchair, so rather than eat the ball for a sack or throw it away and take a hit, he'd rather just chuck it up in a spazfit. He did it on the first play of the game, as well, and was lucky it wasn't picked off.

 
Yeah, I get this sense too.  His body may be simply beaten up at this point, not just the spine but the thigh or whatever he's been listed with on the injury report.  I can't remember the last time I saw him step up in the pocket to make a big throw knowing that he was going to get hammered.  That's something Brady does pretty frequently - not to mention guys like Luck, Roethlisberger, and Rivers who get hit all the time and keep coming back for more.

 

[Devizier]

I have no idea what's going on with Manning. Seems almost certain that he's hurt.
 
The Broncos cannot afford to choke away their bye, which seems like an outside possibility at this point.

 

[DJnVa]

How does he not see that guy though? Is there another angle where we can tell that maybe he was hidden or something? Maybe invisible?

 

[Silverdude2167]

As in, "He's our asshole, so we love him... but we can see that he's kind of an asshole, and get why other teams would hate him with particular fervor."
 
There were times I felt that about Youk, for example.

That makes sense, thanks.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Agree that Manning appears hurt, and has for several weeks.   No idea, obviously, if that's something chronic or just a 'regular' injury.
 
The answer to which, I think, speaks to whether he'll be back next year:  if what's going on is chronic and will only be marginally improved last year I could imagine him walking away.  However, if it's (say) a hernia or strained hip flexor or something else that will heal, I'd bet he's back for another year...there are records still be won (career passing yards, etc.)
 
Unless there's a miracle cure coming I do think they look a whole lot more vulnerable than they did a few weeks ago.  I could see this version of Broncos losing to Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincy, or the Pats.  Indy would surprise me, but it'd be a shootout.

 

[Phragle]

How does he not see that guy though? Is there another angle where we can tell that maybe he was hidden or something? Maybe invisible?

 
He saw the guy, he just didn't have the strength to get it there while falling over backwards.
 
The Adam Jones interception was the most puzzling one IMO.

 

[Tony C]

Right. I can look at that replay time after time both for the sheer pleasure of it, but also because it makes no sense: ball doesn't seem to slip; he's looking that way and has a clear vision; it couldn't have been a bad route because no route led to where the ball was thrown; it didn't seem to slip out of his hand; the pressure wasn't much, he faced much worse and got off great throws. The footwork was certainly terrible, but no idea why.
 
And this comes against the backdrop of a 3rd quarter in which he was vintage.
 
I can only vaguely speculate/guess that it's classic old man shit -- he just lost focus/was tired by the end of the game and kind of threw it up there the way you or I might. Fuck, I don't know...it's really one of the weirdest moments of the season.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 
He saw the guy, he just didn't have the strength to get it there while falling over backwards.
 
The Adam Jones interception was the most puzzling one IMO.

 
That one was really weird because it appeared to be a really simple coverage that Peyton has seen 9897825349872579 times in his life.  He also had a pretty clean pocket but didn't really step into the throw.  It was awful Quarterbacking 101.

 

[Morning Woodhead]

 
That one was really weird because it appeared to be a really simple coverage that Peyton has seen 9897825349872579 times in his life.  He also had a pretty clean pocket but didn't really step into the throw.  It was awful Quarterbacking 101.

 
It was like he didn't even look before throwing.  He called out Jones as the Mike, and then threw it to the spot he knew the WR was going to be.  Except Jones dropped into coverage and the ball came right to him. 

 

[ifmanis5]

But he is one of the GOATS. 

Regular season, sure. Still sub-500 in the playoffs.

 

[Van Everyman]

And this comes against the backdrop of a 3rd quarter in which he was vintage.

And a first half in which he wasn't very good either. I wondered in the Week 16 thread whether he got a shot at halftime that wore off by the 4Q. But regardless, I was pretty certain no one would ask him about it.

 

[Zososoxfan]

I've watched this like a 100 times and still can't believe the terribleness that was this throw.  It still would have been awful even if DT was coming back to the ball.
 

 
The key to beating any quarterback is pressure and disrupting his footwork and timing, but that seems especially true for Manning these days.  He's arguably the best QB on the planet when given a perfectly clean pocket.  But he's awful with any pressure.  He has neither the agility to improvise and move around the pocket (note that he doesn't even try to climb the pocket here when he senses pressure off the edge) nor the arm strength to make throws when his feet aren't set and he can't step into it.

 
Edit: I didn't see the pressure coming from the bottom of the screen the first few times I watches this. Carry on.

 

[ivanvamp]

Peyton Manning, last 8 weeks:
 
at NWE (L):  34-57, 438 yds, 2 td, 2 int, 80.9 rating
at Oak (W):  31-44, 350 yds, 5 td, 2 int, 111.9 rating
at Stl (L):  34-54, 389 yds, 1 td, 2 int, 75.3 rating
vs Mia (W):  28-35, 257 yds, 4 td, 0 int, 135.4 rating
at KC (W):  17-34, 179 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 85.3 rating
vs Buf (W): 14-20, 173 yds, 0 td, 2 int, 56.9 rating
at SD (W):  14-20, 233 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 125.6 rating
at Cin (L):  28-44, 311 yds, 2 td, 4 int, 61.8 rating
 
TOTAL:  200-308 (64.9%), 2330 yds, 17 td, 12 int, 89.9 rating
 
He's not dead yet, but this isn't the same Peyton Manning we all have come to know.  

 

[BoredViewer]

Manning now reminds me of the waning days of Marino. The arm strength was utterly gone, but he still had enough ability to read defenses and pick out receivers to be effective. But... when he looked bad, he looked REAL bad.

 

[j-man]

denver did deserve to lose last night    denver is 0-4 in games bill vinovich refs in    it was cinatntalt super bowl  they knew deep down they  most likely are going to lose aga pitt and if they did they miss the playoffs   
 
 
that said seattle looks better than last year   
 
denver will get the 2 seed anyway because pitt will steamroll ciny    
 
i think denver needs to worry about losing in the div round  because Ciny can do most of the same things again   and pitt can score 30+ and win a 31-28 type of game   
 
the good news for NE  - is they are about 13 pts better than the afc field      
6 Assume San diego   gets the last spot    they cant run the ball very well and have no corners  ne would win 27-14 aga them 
5 Ciny if they beat INDY will be just happy to be there 41-20 NE   
4 INDY way overrated Cant stop the run Cant defend gronk   48-17 NE   
3 Pitt  i watch this team a lot My dad is a huge fan    they cant cover on def  allow big chunks on pass plays they would get 28  but u get 49  49-28 NE
2 Denver foxboro is in manning head   i say 38-16 NE    
 
bad  News  
Seattle is the mid- 90's Cowboys  and Carolina matches up the best  aga them and they might not make it    
 
i think Seattle would beat u 24-17  

 

[LuckyBen]

http://notsportscenter.com/32-nfl-logos-with-manning-face-in-them/

 

[Ed Hillel]

Seattle is not better than last year. The defense is about the same strength, all things considered, but the offense is down a number of weapons. That doesn't mean they aren't scary, but they aren't better.

 

[pappymojo]

If Manning is hurt, is Denver better off benching him this week committing to CJ Anderson and their defense in the hopes that they still get a bye and in effect give Manning two weeks of rest prior to the playoffs starting?

 

[soxfan121]

If Manning is hurt, is Denver better off benching him this week committing to CJ Anderson and their defense in the hopes that they still get a bye and in effect give Manning two weeks of rest prior to the playoffs starting?

 
They have to win to avoid the three seed and a game wildcard weekend.

 

[minischwab]

Just jumping in here to add some context, the issues with Manning go beyond facing pressure.  Since Week 9, Manning is ranked 17th in the league in Total QBR when he it NOT under duress (per ESPN Stats and Info).  First 8 games his total QBR when not pressured was 96, last 7 that drops to 77.  Injuries to his top targets (esp. Julius Thomas) have been a factor, as has the leg injury and whatever other health issues he may be dealing with.  But this is a guy who used to carve up the league when there was no pressure on him and the 2nd half of this season he's been mediocre.  If teams don't have to blitz him and don't even need pressure to force mistakes, Denver is in big trouble.  The other good indicator of his arm strength being an issue is he's throwing picks at an alarming rate on passes outside the numbers, but short yardage and down the field.  When he needs to put more on the ball to get it past a DB, he's not able to now.  

 

[pappymojo]

 
They have to win to avoid the three seed and a game wildcard weekend.

Right. But 1 they are playing Oakland and 2 Manning looked awful.

 

[bakahump]

post 248 of this thread I mentioned the Run D.
 
Peyton is obviously messed up....maybe forever.
 
But the D is NOT what it was or what thier current reputation is.
 
They were gashed on the run game as I suspected they would be by a decent pair of RBs.  DL is still stout (but not all they need it to be) and the secondary can be ok (.....Wards injury could be another huge blow depending on he responds)
 
But Without LBers.....they really are hurting. 
 
That combined with the fact that they are built as a "Front running defense" and the offense currently cant supply that....
 
I will go out on another limb and say with a hobbled Ward and no LBers of note....That Mcfadden, Drew and Reece put up another 150 on them.

 

[DJnVa]

 
Edit: I didn't see the pressure coming from the bottom of the screen the first few times I watches this. Carry on.

 
 
Yeah, but it *seems* like he could easily step up in the pocket and that rusher could have been pushed behind him. He was locked in on that receiver, "saw" the pressure and threw a bad pass.
 
That's a Mark Sanchez/Geno Smith type INT.

 

[TheMoralBully]

They gave up the 85 yard run, but otherwise held up ok.  It wasn't a good performance but Cincy has been pretty good running the ball since they have established roles for Hill and Bernard.  I don't think the current state of the run D is problematic enough for a terrible running team like Oakland to exploit.
 
There were a lot of possessions, four TOs and two long special team returns for Cincy.  The loss was really on Manning and spotty o-line play.  I still think their defense has been good and will be ok going forward, though NE's at this point is healthier and playing better.

 

[H78]

If Manning's issues are not related to a new injury but are indeed a result of his neck surgery catching up with him again, you have to believe he may be playing the last games of his career over these next few weeks.

 

[koufax32]

I just can't see Peyton announcing retirement at the end of the season. There's just no way he doesn't Jeter his final season. If his neck demanded retirement it would be a degenerative thing, right? It wouldn't sneak up on him. DRS or someone else, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[tims4wins]

Oh man I hope he Jeters his final season. What would be the equivalent stats-wise? Maybe like 57% completions, 18 TD to 30 INT, a nice 6-10 campaign. That'd be so fucking awesome watching him throw pick after pick while the announcers all ball washed him.

 

[Leather]

Only if the Patriots go into Denver and destroy him.

 

[doc]

Maybe he can suit up in one of these:
 

 

[Royal Reader]

Seattle is not better than last year. The defense is about the same strength, all things considered, but the offense is down a number of weapons. That doesn't mean they aren't scary, but they aren't better.

 
Seems to me the starting defense is as good, but they're down some depth vs last year.   Agreed not better overall.

 

[amarshal2]

 
Seems to me the starting defense is as good, but they're down some depth vs last year.   Agreed not better overall.

 
They used to rotate their DL like crazy last year so that depth had a big impact.  I know sacks aren't the only stat that matters but to illustrate last year Seattle was tied for 8th in the NFL in sacks (44) vs. tied for 23rd this year (33).  There is a lot of noise in these stats based on competition and injuries as such and you can find counter points (their rushing Y/A against is better this year) but the consensus seems to be that their ability to pressure the QB is not as good in 2014 as it was last year.  Certainly that's an important aspect when facing the Pats.

 

[m0ckduck]

I've watched this like a 100 times and still can't believe the terribleness that was this throw.  It still would have been awful even if DT was coming back to the ball.
 

 
The key to beating any quarterback is pressure and disrupting his footwork and timing, but that seems especially true for Manning these days.  He's arguably the best QB on the planet when given a perfectly clean pocket.  But he's awful with any pressure.  He has neither the agility to improvise and move around the pocket (note that he doesn't even try to climb the pocket here when he senses pressure off the edge) nor the arm strength to make throws when his feet aren't set and he can't step into it.

 
FWIW, Manning had just gotten DRILLED by Dunlap on the play before (the one applying the pressure off the edge on the INT). I suspect he saw Dunlap coming again and instinctively chucked it away. Perhaps he was basically trying to throw it away in Sanders' direction out-of-bounds and just didn't get enough on it.