What's more, Denver's red zone TD efficiency has been roughly cut by something like 25% with J. Thomas out. He is hugely important to Manning on a short field.
2014 Denver Broncos: Popping Mollies and Adderrall
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Sox and Rocks said:
EDIT: No idea how I missed the contract details in the article above...
The two Thomases needed to get done before Harris. They are essential to their offense whereas you have Bradley Roby to step in for Harris.Rook05 said:
Harris has been there best corner this year. They needed to sign him and cut Talib if necessary to sign other guys.
RedOctober3829 said:
Talib is totally expendable if Roby is ready next year.Just a bit outside said:
Welker will get cut too. Guy is doing almost nothing in the offense now.
86spike said:
Talib is a reasonably big dead money hit (4 million) if he gets cut. Welker's a free agent who I bet retires.
welker will retire if DT takes a discount from 14 mil a year to 10-11 mil we might only get away with losing just R Moore and J Thomas
i have done this depth chart at mile high several times it shows denver needs for next year very clear
QB - Manning Brock Q no need for 15
RB CJ Anderson Hillman thompson ball no need for 15
WR DT? C Laiter E Sanders J Norwood I Burse littie need unless DT leaves
TE V Green Tamme? manning loves him will most likely be back mid round draft pick
LT Clady Cornick
LG ? i dont think frankin will be back Mramirez
C ? Draft pick
RG Varquez garland
RT Schofield a 3rd round draft pick is being groomed at rt for 15
LE Ware q smith
RE Wolhe M Jackson
DT T Knighton? S Williams M Austin jr draft pick or cheap fa
LOLB Millier
MLB Burrow S Johnson
ROLB B Marshall Danny T
CB C Harris Talib roby webster
FS Draft pick D Burton jr
SS T Ward q carter
K ?
P Colqitt
needs
1 LG
2 FS
3 C
4 RT
5 P is we lose nighton DT Moves up to num 2
i have done this depth chart at mile high several times it shows denver needs for next year very clear
QB - Manning Brock Q no need for 15
RB CJ Anderson Hillman thompson ball no need for 15
WR DT? C Laiter E Sanders J Norwood I Burse littie need unless DT leaves
TE V Green Tamme? manning loves him will most likely be back mid round draft pick
LT Clady Cornick
LG ? i dont think frankin will be back Mramirez
C ? Draft pick
RG Varquez garland
RT Schofield a 3rd round draft pick is being groomed at rt for 15
LE Ware q smith
RE Wolhe M Jackson
DT T Knighton? S Williams M Austin jr draft pick or cheap fa
LOLB Millier
MLB Burrow S Johnson
ROLB B Marshall Danny T
CB C Harris Talib roby webster
FS Draft pick D Burton jr
SS T Ward q carter
K ?
P Colqitt
needs
1 LG
2 FS
3 C
4 RT
5 P is we lose nighton DT Moves up to num 2
Welker is a free agent next year, right?
Cutting Talib makes sense, and 4-3-2-1 (millions) in dead money spread out over four years is very manageable. It is tough to justify cutting the guy when the cap savings is only $3M in the outset. I think he's gone for sure in 2016, though ($10M savings).
Cutting Talib makes sense, and 4-3-2-1 (millions) in dead money spread out over four years is very manageable. It is tough to justify cutting the guy when the cap savings is only $3M in the outset. I think he's gone for sure in 2016, though ($10M savings).
You've gotta be a little concerned that with all the problems they've had at RT, Schofield hasn't gotten a crack at it. He's a third-round pick that's already 24 and has experience at RT at Michigan. You'd think he'd be higher on the depth chart than Cornick or shifting Vazquez off G. Has he been hurt or something?j-man said:
Harris just signed the 9th largest current contract for corners in the NFL, and it's the most guaranteed money for a cornerback not named Brandon Carr or Johnathan Joseph. I wouldn't call that a pay cut.j-man said:
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson are each getting significantly more guaranteed and those were just signed last offseason.
You don't think he could have gotten more on the open market, especially in a year where the cap may increase as much as 17 million? I think he could have gotten 30-35 million guaranteed over the same span. Revis is going to get like 55-60 million guaranteed and set the market at a huge rate.
Demaryius is going to get the franchise tag, I think that's probably fairly automatic. They'll cut whoever is necessary to make it happen. I think Julius is probably gone.
Ed Hillel said:
Yup, you're right. That's what I get for posting drunk and 11:20 PM and using one source.
I'm really not sure what he would have gotten on the market. Revis will most likely be on the market, as will Byron Maxwell, and both would take priority over Harris. There's a strong possibility that Harris could have landed a bigger pay day, but I won't pretend to have payed much attention to the free agent market.
That doesn't change my original point that Demarius Thomas isn't taking a 33% pay cut just for the glory of playing for the Broncos. Harris may have been able to get more on the market, but his new contract is still a giant step forward for an undrafted player making a few hundred K this year. Taking the guaranteed money during the season is an understandable choice for Harris, especially considering his history and the physical nature of the CB position. There's a large leap in logic to equate Chris Harris' situation to Demarius Thomas taking a giant paycut. They aren't even close to the same thing.
I think you're right. Thomas gets the tag and the team has to adjust their roster accordingly. The Broncos built their roster to go all in on the Peyton window - let me take this moment to point out that Manning has thrown more interceptions (9) than anyone in the NFL not named Bryan Hoyer or Any Dalton since week 9 - and they're going to have to start making some hard personnel choices.
Harris was an undrafted FA and this was his first chance to make millions. I agree with KFP that you can't really compare his situation to that of Demaryius Thomas who has already earned much more in his career and therefor has less impetus to jump at a deal.
That said, DT did go into depth in a recent interview about how he feels playing with Manning increases his own game enough to possibly justify taking less to stay on his team. His agent probably shit himself when he read that one.
I think Elway will be able to sign him, though, and JT may get the franchise tag.
That said, DT did go into depth in a recent interview about how he feels playing with Manning increases his own game enough to possibly justify taking less to stay on his team. His agent probably shit himself when he read that one.
I think Elway will be able to sign him, though, and JT may get the franchise tag.
I don't think Denver can afford both DT and JT unless they make other moves. After the Harris signing they have ~25 mil in cap space and they need ~5 just for their draft picks. Even if they can get both Thomases for about 20 mil they would have no other room.
They would have to cut and/or trade someone to make it work. They could cut Clady or trade Von Miller I suppose
They would have to cut and/or trade someone to make it work. They could cut Clady or trade Von Miller I suppose
Also, while DT may love catching passes from manning, he's smart enough to know that ship has just about sailed. No pointing signing a below market contract for 1-2 more years of paying with manning
Tough injury day: reports are that Danny Travathan reinjured his knee and is done for the season...and that Brandon Marshall has a mid-foot sprain, one of those injuries that tends to cause much longer absences than one would expect.
Next man up in LB core?
Next man up in LB core?
LB are thin but if the CB can cover as good as yesterday we have a shot
at worst we are the 3rd best team i think Seattle is number 1 ne 2 denver 3
NE needs to Seattle Proof their offense which means run more pressure wilson with a spy use screens and no-huddle yeah terrace k jump the gun but if we can beat @ne in ne which is very unlikely he could be the new joe namath i am far more worried about manning arm because aga Luck Brady can he throw 40-45 times if need be
looking ahead to indy in round 2 how many turnovers can we force luck into and denver is going to have to score 31+ pis to get by indy what the pats need is Ciny in round 2
at worst we are the 3rd best team i think Seattle is number 1 ne 2 denver 3
NE needs to Seattle Proof their offense which means run more pressure wilson with a spy use screens and no-huddle yeah terrace k jump the gun but if we can beat @ne in ne which is very unlikely he could be the new joe namath i am far more worried about manning arm because aga Luck Brady can he throw 40-45 times if need be
looking ahead to indy in round 2 how many turnovers can we force luck into and denver is going to have to score 31+ pis to get by indy what the pats need is Ciny in round 2
Yesterday morning I almost wrote a post here saying "Trevathan is back today" and bragging about how good he can be.
Derp
Derp
Tough break for the broncos, but they have been quite lucky with injuries thus far; all injuries have been to linebackers or running backs, and the running back injuries have been a blessing in disguise since it has allowed for ci Anderson to play
Sox and Rocks said:
Knock on wood, but the Patriots are in the same boat. One thing to watch for Denver in the coming weeks is that Talib has already started his standard late season act of missing a game here and there, and asking out a couple times a game for a few plays after any sort of physicality.
Harris is good, but LB out creates bad matchup problems against NE. Harris could probably keep Edelman under 100 with some LB support, and Talib could hold LaFell in check (if he doesn't tap out), but who is covering Gronk or Vereen out of the backfield? I just think the NE secondary matches up much better with Denver's WR/TE than vice versa, not to mention NE has much better LB at this point. I don't think either team is going to be running with much success. Both front 7s are pretty stout against the run. One caveat is that the Pats may find some success if they shift Talib on Gronk. I still think Talib on Gronk is Denver's best strategy, but Talib may want nothing to do with that.
Well, he did. And he seems to, somehow, every week. It is crazy how many deep duck completions he makes every week.
It's more looks being deceiving than stats, he's been excellent throwing downfield all year, may not look pretty, but they get there.DrewDawg said:
Defenses are usually so concerned with shutting down the short stuff that he gets a number of looks each game where there's no safety help over the top of a particular receiver and he can either chuck it up along the sideline and let DT or JT battle for it or he can float one down the hash and let Sanders run under it. While Manning is fairly accurate on these balls its nothing super impressive. The deep success depends more on Manning's ability to diagnose matchups and several of the receivers' ability to high point balls.
When I see Manning play, I notice that he does complete a fair amount of what would be considered "deep balls", but they are often not done in the traditional sense of the term. He isn't Andrew Luck or Joe Flacco, throwing 50 yard ropes to his speedy receivers down field, something that Brady tries to do a lot and fails at. Manning gets a lot of his 20+ yard completions on deep out routes or post routes towards the sideline. Often times, he gets a 10 yard cushion for his receiver to stake out in-between two defenders, and Manning is accurate enough to loft the ball over the first defender and have it settle into his receivers hands (Emmanuel Sanders is really good at this). He doesn't need to have incredible arm strength to pull this off, he just needs to be accurate and make timely reads, two things he is still as good as anybody at doing.
Manning throws these incredibly accurate ducks. But I think that his long throws also sometimes become hospital balls. It feels like once every couple of games Sanders has to catch a ball while someone slams into him.
DrewDawg said:
tims4wins said:
Remarkable isn't it? Every time I think his performance is declining, I see a game like last Sunday's where those 'wounded ducks" seem to have sonar for his receivers hands. Those were some of the best throws you'll ever see, I'm afraid.
You would take that shot considering your LB core consists of ....well no one? I guess if you think big mouth Pork Chop and the rest of the DL can stop the run .....and of course the "Any Given Sunday" thing....but I think thats Wish casting J-man.
If we saw denver again.....I could see a "Colts" game plan (assuming Fleming is healthy..or they have someone they feel is capable of the same production) with a 6th OL and lots of LGBT and Gray.
I think if you can get into the 2nd level.....Denver would be in big trouble.
Interested to see how Hill and Bernard do against them this weekend.
If we saw denver again.....I could see a "Colts" game plan (assuming Fleming is healthy..or they have someone they feel is capable of the same production) with a 6th OL and lots of LGBT and Gray.
I think if you can get into the 2nd level.....Denver would be in big trouble.
Interested to see how Hill and Bernard do against them this weekend.
Denver is second in the league in yards per carry on D, so I tend to agree with the J-Man. Ideal weather against Denver for New England would be cold with little to no wind/rain. I'd happily take that 65 degree day we had last year in the AFCCG, actually. Patriots are 13th in YPC, but I think this current roster with Siliga is better than that, probably top 10.
Ed Hillel said:
I don't think Siliga is the only reason this team has been better against the run. Over the last 6 weeks the team has been very, very good against the run. Removing QB scrambles from the equation:
vs Broncos: 15 carries, 40 yards, 2.6 YPC
@ Colts: 13 carries, 4 yards, 0.3 YPC
vs Lions: 22 carries, 73 yards, 3.3 YPC
@ Green Bay: 24 carries, 108 yards, 4.5 YPC
@ San Diego: 14 carries, 45 yards, 3.2 YPC
Vs Miami: 20 carries, 55 yards, 2.6 YPC
Total: 108 carries, 325 yards, 3.0 YPC
Even with the defensive breakdowns against Green Bay on the first drive (37 of the teams 108 rushing yards came on back to back plays), that YPC number would be #1 in the NFL.
Sure, they've played some weak running teams (DET and San Diego are 30 and 31st in YPC), but they've also played some good running attacks in that span as well (Miami and GB are 7th and 8th in YPC). At the end of the day, I don't think the Patriots are the best team in the NFL against the run, but their turnaround against the run is a pretty unappreciated event over the last 6 weeks. Hopefully the return of Chandler Jones doesn't affect the progress in that aspect of their defense.
PFF is saying today that since week 8 Peyton is ranked 20th at QB equal with MARK SANCHEZ!
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/23/refo-broncos-bengals-week-16/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/23/refo-broncos-bengals-week-16/
X Rays negative on T.J. Ward. More tests to come. May have lost feeling in his legs after hit (he won't say).
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/12/22/x-rays-negative-t-j-wards-neck-will-tests/31691/
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2014/12/22/x-rays-negative-t-j-wards-neck-will-tests/31691/
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
I've watched this like a 100 times and still can't believe the terribleness that was this throw. It still would have been awful even if DT was coming back to the ball.
The key to beating any quarterback is pressure and disrupting his footwork and timing, but that seems especially true for Manning these days. He's arguably the best QB on the planet when given a perfectly clean pocket. But he's awful with any pressure. He has neither the agility to improvise and move around the pocket (note that he doesn't even try to climb the pocket here when he senses pressure off the edge) nor the arm strength to make throws when his feet aren't set and he can't step into it.
The key to beating any quarterback is pressure and disrupting his footwork and timing, but that seems especially true for Manning these days. He's arguably the best QB on the planet when given a perfectly clean pocket. But he's awful with any pressure. He has neither the agility to improvise and move around the pocket (note that he doesn't even try to climb the pocket here when he senses pressure off the edge) nor the arm strength to make throws when his feet aren't set and he can't step into it.
I don't get this comparison. I love Marchand, but I don't think that is what you are going for.MentalDisabldLst said: