2020 NBA Draft discussion

ColonelMustard

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Isn't Hampton a lot like Romeo Langford? Both former high school stars who slipped a bit, inconsistent jumper, about the same size. Just seems hard to develop two of the same type of player.
I personally think Hampton is just on another level athletically (vertical and speed - you blink and he's already across the court) and he looks like it against pros as well. He simply outleaps or outruns his competition in the ABL.

I think the criticism is fair and RJ Hampton loses his handle at times driving. What O'Conner and others have said is that he's an inconsistent shooter but his upper half form looks good. If he is able to improve his lower half form (legs), he has the potential to be a lot more consistent here. His free-throw percentage last year though was abysmal at .679 and may point to him not being a consistent shooter despite good form.

To my eyes, RJ Hampton looks like the superior player of the two and has a higher ceiling, I would be very happy with this selection.
 

BigSoxFan

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That was my first thought after reading KOC's description of Hampton's strengths/weaknesses. Can we please add someone who's already a good shooter?
*cough* Nesmith *cough*

(I am biased - he’s my guy in this draft)
 

nighthob

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Isn't Hampton a lot like Romeo Langford? Both former high school stars who slipped a bit, inconsistent jumper, about the same size. Just seems hard to develop two of the same type of player.
His shooting motion was nowhere near as bad as Langford's. And he appears to have fixed it working with Mike Miller during the layoff. And he has the handle/athleticism to be a lead guard. I'm not sure that's true of Langford.
 

BigSoxFan

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His shooting motion was nowhere near as bad as Langford's. And he appears to have fixed it working with Mike Miller during the layoff. And he has the handle/athleticism to be a lead guard. I'm not sure that's true of Langford.
What do you see as Langford’s reasonable “best case” ceiling?
 

nighthob

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Ceilingwise? If you squint really hard you can see a top 50 player that might make an all star game or two before all is said and done. But he's a wing/secondary ballhandler at best. I don't think there's any chance he busts, though (I like Langford's floor as a two way wing). I'm just not seeing him as anything but complementary player.

Hampton just has a higher ceiling as a potential top 25 player. Especially as a lead guard defending 1s. Because his physical profile makes him switchable. And that would seal a hole in Boston's defense that stretches back years (let's face it, every 1 post-Rondo has been hunted on D).
 

PedroKsBambino

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Langford’s ceiling is roughly Jaylen Brown with better driving ability and somewhat less athleticism to me
 

nighthob

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Langford has a lot less athleticism than Jaylen. It's not his fault, his body's just not meant to propel 230 lbs with that lethal combination of speed/power/hops. He is similar in terms of quickness and length, which gives him his value. Hampton is blindingly fast/quick, but even he doesn't compare because, again, there's no way he could be that guy if he was as jacked as Jaylen.
 

nighthob

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I like Smith as a guy with a high floor and no chance of busting. But he doesn’t have much upside.
 

ColonelMustard

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Langford has a lot less athleticism than Jaylen. It's not his fault, his body's just not meant to propel 230 lbs with that lethal combination of speed/power/hops. He is similar in terms of quickness and length, which gives him his value. Hampton is blindingly fast/quick, but even he doesn't compare because, again, there's no way he could be that guy if he was as jacked as Jaylen.
Blindingly fast are definitely the right words. Lots of ingenuity in the paint - he's a got a beautiful spin move and a high off the glass reverse lay-up.

Negatives:

Do you think he can actually fix his shot? I ask because his FT percentage last year was low.

What about his handle? Looks high for the NBA and he could get stripped in the paint often.

On defense - It's not only about his footwork, he gets bodied on defense. You said he's a gym-rat but he is 6'5 185. If he puts on 10/20 pounds will he have the same speed that actually makes him elite?

His passing accuracy looks atrocious and he doesn't look like a natural distributor. He does look like he can distribute off Steven's PnR fairly well if he's attacking the basket.
 
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mcpickl

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I like Smith as a guy with a high floor and no chance of busting. But he doesn’t have much upside.
I don't expect to find a star at #14. Such a slim chance of hitting.

If I can find a rotation guy I get for relatively cheap dollars for the next 4 years, which I think Smith can be for the final 3 of those 4 years, sign me up for that.
 

tbrown_01923

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I like Hampton based on skills.

I also like Langford and would love to see him play side by side with Marcus for extended minutes, he has enough of a handle (from the limited minutes I saw) that he could handle the ball some - which is all you need to compliment marcus and the wings. I think the two of them would be awfully tough defensively in the half court and think Langford will be killer finishing off turnovers....
 

nighthob

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Blindingly fast are definitely the right words. Lots of ingenuity in the paint - he's a got a beautiful spin move and a high off the glass reverse lay-up.

Negatives:

Do you think he can actually fix his shot? I ask because his FT percentage last year was low.

What about his handle? Looks high for the NBA and he could get stripped in the paint often.

On defense - It's not only about his footwork, he gets bodied on defense. You said he's a gym-rat but he is 6'5 185. If he puts on 10/20 pounds will he have the same speed that actually makes him elite?

His passing accuracy looks atrocious and he doesn't look like a natural distributor. He does look like he can distribute off Steven's PnR fairly well if he's attacking the basket.
The shot looks a lot better in the practice footage I watched. He’s a lot better at syncing the shot now, so there’s no ugly hitch in the shot. The shooting motion itself is also cleaner, he’s releasing more quickly with a consistent release point now. Of course it’s easier in practice than games, but the fact that he went to study shooting with Mike Miller to rebuild his shot is a good sign.

He definitely needs to improve the handle, but he’s not nearly as bad as Jaylen was when he arrived in the NBA. If he has that same commitment he should be able to get his dribble to catch up to his speed. He also needs to become more selective about his passing. Half his problem with the bad passes is his gambling. He needs to learn that safe/simple passes are better. He’s definitely not ever going to be a pure point guard, but those guys are fading anyway.

His floor is a high end bench scorer. And those guys are useful. But his ceiling is lead guard and top 25 player. But a lot will depend on how much of his speed and quickness stick when he’s filled out enough to absorb the pounding on driving the net. I do think he’s well worth the risk if he lasts until #14.
 

NomarsFool

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Langford’s ceiling is roughly Jaylen Brown with better driving ability and somewhat less athleticism to me
I think those 2" of height makes a difference, though. Defensively, Jaylen can cover almost anybody on the court - I don't see Romeo doing that. Offensively, I think the extra height and athleticism helps JB shoot over people as well.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Jaylen's athleticism is elite, especially at his size...Romeo's is not. That's why they were 10 picks apart.

If Romeo can match Jaylen's development and effort we'll all be thrilled, that is the big unknown.
 

nighthob

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I think those 2" of height makes a difference, though. Defensively, Jaylen can cover almost anybody on the court - I don't see Romeo doing that. Offensively, I think the extra height and athleticism helps JB shoot over people as well.
Two inches and about 30 lbs. And despite the extra size/mass, Brown is quicker, faster, and a lot more explosive.
 

BigSoxFan

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Can’t tell if this thread is making me more excited about Jaylen or less excited about Romeo
 

the moops

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His floor is a high end bench scorer. And those guys are useful. But his ceiling is lead guard and top 25 player. But a lot will depend on how much of his speed and quickness stick when he’s filled out enough to absorb the pounding on driving the net. I do think he’s well worth the risk if he lasts until #14.
This seems closer to his ceiling than floor. This draft is full of bench scorers and role players.
 

nighthob

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This seems closer to his ceiling than floor. This draft is full of bench scorers and role players.
Hampton can score points in bunches. Especially with that speed/quickness. He's going to do that much. But the ceiling's a whole lot higher than that if the rebuilt jumper sticks. But that is a big if.
 

Sprowl

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Two inches and about 30 lbs. And despite the extra size/mass, Brown is quicker, faster, and a lot more explosive.
On the other hand, Romeo is quicker, lither and not as quick to overcommit on a ball fake.

Lither. I'm thinking it's a Port Cellar original, maybe even a new religion.
 

nighthob

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I'm not sure Langford is quicker. Basically Jaylen has Pierce's size with insane athleticism. It's really not fair to compare Langford or even Tatum to him in that regard. Langford has a lot of defensive upside, but his size is going to limit the types of guys you can credibly switch him on to.
 

doc

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On the other hand, Romeo is quicker, lither and not as quick to overcommit on a ball fake.

Lither. I'm thinking it's a Port Cellar original, maybe even a new religion.
Isn't that what Mike Tyson calls a guy who's not getting out of prison?
 

ColonelMustard

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The shot looks a lot better in the practice footage I watched. He’s a lot better at syncing the shot now, so there’s no ugly hitch in the shot. The shooting motion itself is also cleaner, he’s releasing more quickly with a consistent release point now. Of course it’s easier in practice than games, but the fact that he went to study shooting with Mike Miller to rebuild his shot is a good sign.

He definitely needs to improve the handle, but he’s not nearly as bad as Jaylen was when he arrived in the NBA. If he has that same commitment he should be able to get his dribble to catch up to his speed. He also needs to become more selective about his passing. Half his problem with the bad passes is his gambling. He needs to learn that safe/simple passes are better. He’s definitely not ever going to be a pure point guard, but those guys are fading anyway.

His floor is a high end bench scorer. And those guys are useful. But his ceiling is lead guard and top 25 player. But a lot will depend on how much of his speed and quickness stick when he’s filled out enough to absorb the pounding on driving the net. I do think he’s well worth the risk if he lasts until #14.

Awesome insights. Thanks! I think his moves around the basket are absolutely incredible (elite euro step) and he's a gifted athlete (finishing it over Steven Adam's outstretched 6'11). He also has the Mamba mentality.

He needs to keep on working on his shot (necessary in the screen heavy NBA) and add 15 / 10 pounds. He can still play with his speed and quickness at 6'5 200. MJ and Kobe (for comparison of guard height/weight) both played at 6'6' 215

If there is a way to move up (as KOC is predicting) and grab Nesmith as well...

Edit: I just checked out more recent practice videos that were publically available. I like his swagger and his shot looks much improved (in one 13/16 in the left-wing NBA 3 point line). I'm really pulling to draft him and see him develop in Green.

Edit2: Two other things stood out to me. His decision making is improving dramatically throughout the season. His defense is also improved throughout the season. He destroyed Lamelo Ball on one play and stuffed him.
 
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chilidawg

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Hampton can score points in bunches. Especially with that speed/quickness. He's going to do that much. But the ceiling's a whole lot higher than that if the rebuilt jumper sticks. But that is a big if.
Nice piece on Celtics Blog on Hampton, should make NH feel validated on him. Good footage from Hampton playing against the Thunder last preseason. You guys have me convinced on him. CoachSpins @Celtics Blog has been doing a nice job previewing the draft.

 

nighthob

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Nice piece on Celtics Blog on Hampton, should make NH feel validated on him. Good footage from Hampton playing against the Thunder last preseason. You guys have me convinced on him. CoachSpins @Celtics Blog has been doing a nice job previewing the draft.

He’s one of those guys whose game tape I’ve peeled through extensively. I was lukewarm about him until I saw the rebuilt jumper. And the workout footage wasn’t one of those Fultz style videos where he takes three jumpers in two minutes with the camera mysteriously unable to capture his full form.

Hampton was firing at high speed with the camera set to show you everything. But, again, it’s easier to do that with no one in your face. We’ll see how well it sticks in game conditions.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It's not only that they didn't get Herro for me so much as they have SO many draft assets they don't 100% need and could have moved up, I strongly suspect. Oh well....let's hope they assessed it all correctly.
 

NomarsFool

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Personally, I don't believe there is much difference in different organizations' ability to tell who is going to be an impact player and who isn't. Therefore, I believe that with more bites at the apple - they have a much better chance of getting that impact player. So, I wouldn't be that excited to see them trading up - at least in this draft - which seems pretty flat.
 

NoXInNixon

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Personally, I don't believe there is much difference in different organizations' ability to tell who is going to be an impact player and who isn't. Therefore, I believe that with more bites at the apple - they have a much better chance of getting that impact player. So, I wouldn't be that excited to see them trading up - at least in this draft - which seems pretty flat.
But to find out if you've got a good apple, you have to give him serious minutes. And given this roster, there aren't enough minutes for three rookies.

You know who does have minutes to give to three rookies? The Knicks. They could use three bites at the apple, and I trust in Danny to find someone at #8 with a great chance at making an impact.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I've been keeping tabs on this draft class, and below are my quick thoughts on the guys I'm at least somewhat familiar with. I bolded the guys I'm either higher on than general consensus, or that I think are good targets for the Celtics. The rankings within tiers are pretty loose, and for the second round guys, I just grouped by archetype.

Tier 1 is the hardest for me, I really don't have a great sense of any of those guys. Overall, its hard to rate some guys if you don't have a sense of their work ethic or BBIQ. I've read enough about Desmond Bane and Tre Jones to know that everyone around them rave about their work ethic, and I've seen enough of Xavier Tillman, Josh Green and Kira Lewis Jr. playing in actual games to know they're straight up ballers who nearly always do the right things on a basketball court, but I don't have much of that with RJ Hampton or Poku. I definitely get the sense that the Celtics front office really values that stuff, and really does their due diligence trying to figure it out in the draft process. It's as much an art as it is a science, but their track record is looking pretty good in that respect.

I do think the conventional wisdom that this draft is very flat is correct. I could have easily combined tiers 2 and 3, and I think there's a bunch of guys in tier 4/second round that will provide value on their rookie contracts.



Tier 1- Significant warts, but All-NBA upside (although I don't think any of them are likely to hit it)
1. Wiseman
2. Hayes (Great vision, good shooter. Good size, solid defender. No right hand)
3. Edwards
4. Okoro (highest floor of these guys, but really needs to shoot to maximize value as elite 3&D with some secondary initiator equity)
5. Okungwu (All Star upside as one of the best defensive players in the league. Decent floor)
6. Ball (Upside is one of the best offensive players in the league, but it's a long shot. Low floor)

Tier 2 - Good starter upsides, decent floors
7. RJ Hampton (All Star upside, lower ceiling than the rest of the guys in this tier. I buy the shot and he's great at finishing at the rim. Wish I had a better sense of his BBIQ)
8. Kira Lewis Jr. (Great production at a young age in a good conference, lightning fast, and a good shooter. Smart player with a good rep. I keep flipping between him and Hampton as my preferred PG target for the Cs)
9. Devin Vassel (I'm basically ignoring the recent clips of two 28 foot jumpers, but maybe that's unwise)
10. Tyrese Haliburton (BBIQ for days. As a low-usage guard, would be a nice fit with the Celtics. Athleticism is a real concern, but he added a nice little floater game after not getting to the rim at all last year. Unorthodox guy but I loved watching him play)
11. Obi Toppin (he'll be a liability on D with slow feet and high center of gravity, but really fun offensive player)
12. Tyrese Maxey (A guy I've come around on a lot. He's a better shooter than his numbers indicate, and a great finisher. Small, but strong. Microwave scorer who can defend smaller guards well)
13. Deni Avdija (looks much better than I expect on D, but he's really gotta shoot to be useful and the numbers aren't particularly promising)

Tier 3 - Guys with good starter upside and lower floors, or above average starter upside and decent floors
14. Patrick Williams (really smart defender, but slow feet so not great at closing out or switching on quicker ballhandlers. Pretty raw overall, but very young)
15. Josh Green (Incredibly fluid hips and quick feet- can legitimately defend NBA PGs, and has frame to be able to switch onto 4s eventually. I feel like I should have him higher, if he shoots, he'll be a premier 3&D guy. Okoro-lite in that strength, lateral agility, plus passing and general smarts/motor are all assets. Shot is wonky, but he has a rep as a hard worker)
16. Saddiq Bey (Very high floor. Not great laterally and not very explosive, but smart and strong enough, with great positioning and footwork so he's still a pretty versatile defender)
17. Desmond Bane (similar to S.Bey in that they're very smart players who coaches love and who can really shoot, though his form is not as good. He has a negative wingspan and is not particularly athletic, though he's very strong and pretty decent laterally)
18. Aaron Nesmith (He has the tools to defend, but he didn't really do it well at Vandy- there's just a lot of really poor recognition and/or effort when you watch him. Also has shown very little aptitude for moving the ball with a grotesque 0.6 A/TO. The incredible shooting makes him a pretty good fit for our roster though, and there's the possibility that the defensive lapses were the result of a very heavy offensive burden. (Also see: Edwards, Anthony))
19. Tyrell Terry (Dame-level shooter, release is high and quick, but he's small and not very athletic so he'll get hunted despite his good defensive instincts. Maybe I'm dinging him too much for what he can't do rather than focusing on what he can)
20. Cole Anthony (awful spacing for him with lack of shooters. I think he's a much better PnR player than he was able to show. Looks much better in settings I've seen him in outside UNC)

Tier 4 - Starter upside/decent floor or good starter/low floor
21. Precious Achiuwa (not quite Bam-level upside on D, but not too far off. Not close on offense though. Poor decision-maker which means I probably have him too high, but impact defender given system and development)
22. Xavier Tillman (Smartest big in the draft, very good defender and passer. Not quick twitch like Preious, but great footwork and positioning. Always there to challenge shot. Advanced stats will love him. College BPM beast. I'd love him on the Celtics)
23. Jalen Smith (Stretch 4 due to lack of strength but he's a rim-runner who can shoot out of pick and pops, with some utility out of hand-offs and pin downs. I believe in the shot and he can put it on the floor a bit. Protects the rim, but not a great defender and not someone you want on quicker players. Poor footwork, not particularly high BBIQ. Strength will be a problem against NBA bigs even after he added mass- they call him "Sticks" for a reason.
24. Immanuel Quickley (Shooting percentages similar to Terry, but without the lightning high release, which really matters. Good defender, tough kid. Maybe there's more to his playmaking than what Cal allowed him to show once Maxey took over)
25. Jaden McDaniels (An enigma, wrapped in a riddle. Did not meet lofty expectations and his team stunk, but he's got the size, skill and athleticism. I don't think the BBIQ is there, but if it is, and if he's a hard worker, legit could be the best player in this draft. More likely a low-efficiency gunner putting up empty stats for a bad team while being a non-factor on D. Thin frame and some character concerns)
26. Aleksej Pokusevski (Frame makes McDaniels look like Karl Malone. Incredibly skilled for his age and height- he gets very low to the ground and has plus handles, passing, shooting. Active, smart defender with good length, but will be too slow to defend NBA guards and too weak to defend anyone close to the basket. He's a 7 foot guard, but I have a very hard time getting over the fact that there's never been a decent NBA player with a frame as small as his. Swing for the fences type pick)
27. Robert Woodard II (Prototypical NBA wing size and athleticism, but lack of offense limits upside)
28. Leandro Bolmaro (reminds me a lot of Satoransky, but stronger and a bit less skilled)
29. Mason Jones (So crafty. Foul-drawing machine. Only started playing organized hoops 5 years ago because he was too fat before that, but he transformed his body)
30. Isaiah Stewart (So big and strong, he'd make a good Embiid-stopper. Great motor, light on his feet for his size, decent touch on his jumper. Still a drop big despite quick feet. Advanced screener. Supposed to be a great kid. I like him as a Celtics target if he lasts to 26/30. If this draft was 25 years ago, he goes #1 over Jalen Smith. Maybe should be higher, but the devaluation of the position is real)
31. Killian Tillie (If he's healthy, he's the best stretch big in the class and a solid overall defender, but heath is a major question)
32. Isaiah Joe (Shooter with good SG size and deep range. Good movement w/o ball. Just good at getting open. Good mechanics. Decent handle to attack close-outs. Very good team defender and length helps, but really needs to bulk up)

Second Round PGs with Upside
Tre Jones (May not last until 2nd round. If he shoots, I think his ceiling is pretty high. Advanced stats will love him)
AboudayeN'Doye (7'2 wingspan, shot well on low-volume, and generally played well for a good team in France. Not very athletic, but fluid. Good defensive tools. Nice stash option)
Karim Mane (7 foot wingspan, good handle, great first step, very athletic. Poor competition, older prospect who is still raw, but untapped potential to be a Jrue-like PG)

Lower-ceiling PGs
Theo Maledon (Smooth PnR guard with no left hand and poor lateral movement.)
Malachi Flynn (Smart PnR floor general who I see having Jameer Nelson type career)
Cassius Winston (One of the best college PGs ever, but the athleticism kills him at the next level. Incredible career, so much fun to watch)

Nico Mannion (Great vision, strength will be an issue)
Devon Dotson (Explosive athlete who pressures the rim and is a pest on defense. Better vision than I think he gets credit for)
Yam Madar (fairly tough and athletic Israeli stash option)
Ashton Hagans (Defensive menace with no jumper, but good floor general. Rumors have the Heat interested, which would be a perfect developmental spot for him. If they fix his jumper he's a great fit with his buddy Herro)
Payton Pritchard (Tough, smart, but meh athlete who'll likely succeed in Europe)

Energy/Situational Bigs
Reggie Perry (combo forward who can do a bit of everything. Smooth. Has some pull up game. Versatile defender, good on glass)
Daniel Otoru (rim protector who rebounds well and has stretch potential. Rim runner/diver. Good screen setter. Smooth, but not a plus athlete)
Tyler Bey (undersized, but really pops as a smart motor guy who does all the little things, and gets after it on D, where he reminds a bit of Shawn Marion. Very reluctant to shoot though, and cannot put it on the floor)
Vernon Carey (Old school big. Skilled and smooth big, w/good footwork, decent handle and shot. Drop big who can't defend in space. Terrible PnR defense despite quick feet. Allergic to setting screens)
Udoka Azubuike (Old school banger w/7'7 wingspan who erases in the paint. Lob target. Raw but great combo of strength length and athleticism)
Zeke Nnaji (Very active, runs the floor well, smart defender, maybe can shoot eventually)
Paul Eboua (Very raw, but looks the part with a great NBA frame for his age. Pretty athletic. Working on shot. Stash project)
Paul Reed (athletic 4 who generates blocks and steals. Some stretch potential, but not much else in his bag on O. Defends perimeter well)
Kaleb Wesson (lunchpail, old school, below-the-rim big, but he can shoot and pass well. Greg Monroe-ish)
Mamadi Diakite (elite shot-blocker who can defend the perimeter. Quick-twitch but too wiry for NBA bigs. Very smart. Not much beyond rim-running, but good touch on FTs is promising. Old but very raw, so untapped potential?)
Marko Simonovic (Spacing PnR big. Positional defender. Meh athlete drop big likely unplayable in most playoff matchups even if he hits his upside)

Microwave Scorers
Grant Riller (3 level scorer who attacks the rim. Great handles, decent passer but not a true PG. Poor defender)
Jahmi'us Ramsey (Pure SG who can light it up from deep, but overall poor decision-making. Good man defender, but pretty terrible off-ball)
Markus Howard (very small, extremely productive. Carsen Edwards type scorer, but weaker, less athletic and minus 6 inches of wingspan, though better with the ball in his hands. Maybe closer to IT than Carsen, stylistically. Incredible shooter though)
Jay Scrubb (Great athlete with positional size and great looking shot, but no sense whatsoever of his game)

Shooters Gonna Shoot- Floor-Spacing Specialists
Sam Merrill (6'5 Deadeye who can shoot from any angle, and pretty crafty with ball in his hands. Old, non-athlete who will get hunted on D . 42%3Pt, 89%FT for college career)
Justinian Jessup (Duncan Robinson type. 6'7, 40.1% 3PT, 83.1%FT)
Jordan Nwora (6'7. 39.4/78.5. Low ceiling 3&D)


Developmental Wings
Ty-Shon Alexander (Undersized but good scorer who maybe can initiate an NBA offense, and he's hard-nosed defender)
Cassius Stanley (Gerald Green type vertical athlete with a nice-looking jumper, but poor instincts and meh motor)
Elijah Hughes (Good overall scorer, but tough to gauge defense due to zone role. Iso scorer, but does that role translate to what he'll be asked to do at next level?)
Nate Hinton (Good athlete with great motor. Tough as nails guard who can shoot a bit, but defends and rebounds like a beast)
Aaron Henry (See above)
CJ Elleby (See above but with better range and less athleticism)
Kenyon Martin Jr. (Good athlete with positional size, but a project. Hated his dad though, so do not draft)
 
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DannyDarwinism

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There's some skepticism out there with respect to combine measurements given that a single entity isn't doing all the measurements this year. With that being said, Dotson sure plays like he has outlier speed.

Other interesting measurements:

Tyler Bey at 6'6 no shoes and a 7'1 wingspan with a 37 inch no-step and 43 inch max, which is the highest ever for a forward. That helps allay a lot of my concerns about him being undersized for the 4.

Unsurprisingly, Azubuike and Cassius Stanley jumped out of the gym. Azubuike at least plays with that same athleticism. 41' max vert is insane for a legit 7 footer.

Tyrell Terry 6'2 barefoot.

My dude Kira Lewis with a 6'5 wingspan, and up to 180, 15 pounds more than he played with at Bama.The De'Aaron Fox comparisons will continue. It does sound like his stock is rising to the extent that he might well be gone by 14.

Zeke Nnaji apparently impressing with his shooting. His FT% indicates he can extend range. I like him as an energy big, but if he can shoot he’s a potential steal. Smart player with a great motor.
 

NomarsFool

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25. Jaden McDaniels (An enigma, wrapped in a riddle. Did not meet lofty expectations and his team stunk, but he's got the size, skill and athleticism. I don't think the BBIQ is there, but if it is, and if he's a hard worker, legit could be the best player in this draft. More likely a low-efficiency gunner putting up empty stats for a bad team while being a non-factor on D. Thin frame and some character concerns)
Saw video of him for the first time today. I was really surprised how thin he is. I was expecting something much different given all the question marks about him. Of course, some players are able to get stronger - he just didn't quite have the look of somebody who will. But, I don't even pretend to be an expert on that. I guess Giannis was pretty darn skinny, too.
 

Cellar-Door

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Drafting another undersized PG after two last year seems a little deflating, but I guess Edward and Waters are sunk costs.
I don't think he's that undersized, he has a good 3-4 inches on those two. Also, Waters was a throwaway pick, nobody really expects him to be an NBA player. Edwards.. probably a sunk cost, also not really a PG, he's an attempt to find a Lou Williams type that doesn't look like it's going to work out. Dotson is the hope of finding a Kemba replacement, a bit undersized but not tiny, quick able to draw fouls, and potential as a shooter.
 

nighthob

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Saw video of him for the first time today. I was really surprised how thin he is. I was expecting something much different given all the question marks about him. Of course, some players are able to get stronger - he just didn't quite have the look of somebody who will. But, I don't even pretend to be an expert on that. I guess Giannis was pretty darn skinny, too.
McDaniels is strong, it's why he was able fo finish effectively at the NCAA level despite weighing all of 190 or so. The question is how much mass can he add. I'm skeptical that he can reach 235, but if he could, and get his head on straight, his game gives him superstar potential. But, as I keep saying, those are gigantic ifs.

Tyler Bey at 6'6 no shoes and a 7'1 wingspan with a 37 inch no-step and 43 inch max, which is the highest ever for a forward. That helps allay a lot of my concerns about him being undersized for the 4.
I like Bey as a longterm 3&D prospect. With the way he flies around the floor he's going to give opponents nightmares.

Unsurprisingly, Azubuike and Cassius Stanley jumped out of the gym.
I wish I had more faith in Stanley's BBIQ. As it is I'm more comfortable projecting Jay Scrubb and I can't get a read on him because he's so much more athletic than his level of competition.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Saw video of him for the first time today. I was really surprised how thin he is. I was expecting something much different given all the question marks about him. Of course, some players are able to get stronger - he just didn't quite have the look of somebody who will. But, I don't even pretend to be an expert on that. I guess Giannis was pretty darn skinny, too.
Yeah, frame was initially a concern when we discussed him earlier in this thread. His brother Jaden is a year and a half older and has basically the same frame so it's easy to look at him (on the Hornto project how Jalen will fill out, or not, as the case may be. Jaden's a knucklehead and that same buzz about Jalen has been swirling around. But the main thing for me now is that he put up meh numbers playing inconsistently for a bad team. Thinking back on it now, I don't know why I'm skeptical of this guy and was relatively bullish on Kevin Porter Jr. last year, as he was also a knucklehead who put up eerily similar stats in the same conference. Though KPJ at least had positional strength and was significantly more efficient. For drafting guys like that intel is essential if you're going to take a gamble that the right environment will allow a young kid who's been a knucklehead to grow.

I head Jonathan Wasserman on a podcast the other day saying that the Warriors (and apparently a bunch of other teams) are down on Anthony Edwards despite his obvious tools because they're concerned he doesn't really care about winning, and that's really my main concern with McDaniels at this point, but it's just my sense based off of some of the yellow flags I've heard about.

Wasserman also said that he wouldn’t be surprised if the Celtics take Terry at 14

Edit- I switched up Jaden and Jalen.
 
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nighthob

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Also Jalen is almost three years older (≈32 months, 1/31/98 to 9/29/00). They're both knuckleheads. The question is does landing on a strong vet team change the calculus for Jaden. Because if he ends up on an inmates running the asylum team like New York or Philly I bet he busts out.

In the back half of the first round you're looking at teams like Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Utah, and Boston (the Lakers would qualify but I doubt they have the patience, they're clearly drafting a roleplayer that can help them now, ditto for Brooklyn). Those five teams probably have the best opportunity to get the best of McDaniels. So if he lands on one of those teams that all have strong vet and defensive cultures he just might tap into that potential and become an all star. Otherwise I figure he carves out a long career bouncing around the bottom feeders of the NBA.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Also Jalen is almost three years older (≈32 months, 1/31/98 to 9/29/00). They're both knuckleheads. The question is does landing on a strong vet team change the calculus for Jaden. Because if he ends up on an inmates running the asylum team like New York or Philly I bet he busts out.

In the back half of the first round you're looking at teams like Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Utah, and Boston (the Lakers would qualify but I doubt they have the patience, they're clearly drafting a roleplayer that can help them now, ditto for Brooklyn). Those five teams probably have the best opportunity to get the best of McDaniels. So if he lands on one of those teams that all have strong vet and defensive cultures he just might tap into that potential and become an all star. Otherwise I figure he carves out a long career bouncing around the bottom feeders of the NBA.
Good catch, I must’ve seen the Mc, and assumed they were Irish twins.

Reading the tea leaves, it does sound like the character stuff is a legit concern. Of course, if it wasn’t, we’d probably be talking about him as a mid lottery pick in this draft. The culture stuff matters a lot to teams, particularly after it was such a talking point with the Heat. Apparently, according to Wasserman, Haliburton is getting top 5 love because teams think he’s such a good leader and glue guy, and while I love the kid’s game (and fit with the Cs), he’s got some serious warts for an early lotto guy, but the top of the draft this year just doesn’t have the culture-setting alphas that teams are looking for to lead.

I do think you’re right about the landing spot. If he goes to the Bucks, Raptors or Celtics and just focuses in on defense as a way to get on the court, while slowly developing his offensive skills, he has a shot to really turn his trajectory around. Those are the spots that have the culture of accountability in place, and for some of these kids, they haven’t had that before, so it’s anyone’s guess how they’ll respond.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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They have the Celtics with Hampton at 14, though looks like they're trying to trade up:
The Celtics have offered their three first-round picks (nos. 14, 26, and 30) in trades to try and move up, according to multiple league sources. So far, no one is biting. If the Celtics stay here, Hampton would make sense because he could serve as a spark-plug scorer off the bench. If Gordon Hayward were to leave Boston, secondary shot creation would be needed sooner rather than later.
Wonder who they might be targeting if they can move up.
 

BaseballJones

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cbssports.com's mock


Has for Boston:

#14 - G Aaron Nesmith, Vanderbilt, 6'6" - "The Celtics' lack of wing depth was exposed in the playoffs, and Nesmith should immediately provide offense and floor spacing as one of the best wing shooters in the draft. Creating his own shot isn't a strength, but he won't need to with the bevy of playmakers up and down Boston's roster."

#26 - F Xavier Tillman, Michigan State, 6'8" - "It's no secret that the Celtics have big man issues, and Tillman should be able to help on both ends. In addition to his defense and rebounding, he's a solid playmaker from the high post, which would create a different look than what Robert Williams provides."

#30 - F Elijah Hughes, Syracuse, 6'6" - "Hughes' mechanics suggest he'll shoot better than he did last season at Syracuse, and he has sneaky off-the-dribble and playmaking ability. Boston could use him to help improve its wing depth."


I'm a Syracuse guy, but I'm not bullish on Hughes. Otherwise, I'd sign up for this draft (love Nesmith and his fit in Boston), and even Hughes has decent size and ability for a wing.