2020 NBA Draft discussion

Jimbodandy

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I don't get why the basketball twitterverse thinks that we have a roster crunch. There are six fungible guys on this roster, assuming nothing big happens and Hayward/Kanter are still here.

If Danny is in love with Bolmaro, that's fine. But it seems like a lot of people think that we have to stash someone. It's simply not true.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don't get why the basketball twitterverse thinks that we have a roster crunch. There are six fungible guys on this roster, assuming nothing big happens and Hayward/Kanter are still here.

If Danny is in love with Bolmaro, that's fine. But it seems like a lot of people think that we have to stash someone. It's simply not true.
Yeah, we have a playing time crunch but there are roster spots available. I’d rather gamble on a guy like McDaniels if he’s there at 26 than Bolmaro. Plenty of room in Maine for some projects.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yeah, we have a playing time crunch but there are roster spots available. I’d rather gamble on a guy like McDaniels if he’s there at 26 than Bolmaro. Plenty of room in Maine for some projects.
I agree, it's more about playing time (and the impact of lack of playing time on development) than roster spots. I don't think Danny will worry about clearing out the end of the roster for picks.

That said, because I think there's opportunity to upgrade in the rotation and I worry a little (though only a little) about not getting enough PT to evaluate and develop guys I do like the idea of a consolidation deal if there's something like equal value from it.
 

NomarsFool

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Exactly. I wouldn't see any hesitation in cutting the likes of Carsten Edwards to make space for a draft pick if the brain trust thinks that pick has more upside than Edwards.
 

EL Jeffe

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This will make nighthob happy; Mike Schmitz from ESPN+ indicated today he thinks McDaniels will go top 20 once teams see him in workouts. I personally prefer McDaniels to Bey; I'm just not there on Bey and don't see the floor/ceiling combo to warrant taking him #14. I'm not crazy about McDaniels at 14 either, but I think his ceiling is definitely higher.

I'd probably rather they trade that pick into 2021 (if the right opportunity presented itself) than take some of the names I've seen floated at 14.
 

JakeRae

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Exactly. I wouldn't see any hesitation in cutting the likes of Carsten Edwards to make space for a draft pick if the brain trust thinks that pick has more upside than Edwards.
That’s not the question. They Celtics have 12 players on NBA deals (assuming Theis, Kanter, and Hayward stay and Semi is out). They have 3 first round picks and a mid-second. Even if you assume no FA signings, one of those players needs to go to clear space. Poirer and Edwards are easy to cut, but costly because of the tax unless you trade them. Best case, maybe Ainge could trade Edwards for a late second to package with Poirer to dump his salary and clear 2 spots. That’s room for the picks and either Waters or a single vet. There absolutely is a roster crunch.
 

NomarsFool

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I'm not terribly concerned about finding space for that 2nd round pick. They just need to cut bait on Poirier. It's obvious that CBS had no confidence in him.
 

nighthob

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This will make nighthob happy; Mike Schmitz from ESPN+ indicated today he thinks McDaniels will go top 20 once teams see him in workouts. I personally prefer McDaniels to Bey; I'm just not there on Bey and don't see the floor/ceiling combo to warrant taking him #14. I'm not crazy about McDaniels at 14 either, but I think his ceiling is definitely higher.

I'd probably rather they trade that pick into 2021 (if the right opportunity presented itself) than take some of the names I've seen floated at 14.
I'm the first to agree that McDaniels has the highest ceiling of the guys in the '20 pool. If he can get up to 230 or so without losing athleticism he's absolutely perfect as the big wing to pair with the J-Crew. But there's a huge bust factor with him as I noted in my deep dive on his game tape.

I still like Jay Scrubb as a 2nd round home run swing, because he absolutely has the size/length/athleticism package to be an NBA star (he's close to Isaac Okoro who's generally viewed as a top ten pick). But the paucity of game tape with him makes me hesitant to take him before #47.
 

Jimbodandy

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That’s not the question. They Celtics have 12 players on NBA deals (assuming Theis, Kanter, and Hayward stay and Semi is out). They have 3 first round picks and a mid-second. Even if you assume no FA signings, one of those players needs to go to clear space. Poirer and Edwards are easy to cut, but costly because of the tax unless you trade them. Best case, maybe Ainge could trade Edwards for a late second to package with Poirer to dump his salary and clear 2 spots. That’s room for the picks and either Waters or a single vet. There absolutely is a roster crunch.
12 players on NBA deals means 5 players not. They have 4 draft picks. Still not seeing the crunch.
 

JakeRae

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12 players on NBA deals means 5 players not. They have 4 draft picks. Still not seeing the crunch.
You only get 15 NBA deals. I’m excluding 2-ways as they are a completely different type of player/contract.

Edit: I would add that there are interesting players like Quickley, Tillie, and Reed that might be available with our second round pick. Those guys aren’t going to sign a 2-way contract nor should they.
 

Jimbodandy

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You only get 15 NBA deals. I’m excluding 2-ways as they are a completely different type of player/contract.
Right, but that second round pick, if they love him, can be a 2-way.

I get that it's tight, especially if they really want to hold on to Waters or Tacko or something. But they don't have to eat a guaranteed NBA deal to sign 4 draft picks, unless I'm missing something.
 

JakeRae

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Right, but that second round pick, if they love him, can be a 2-way.

I get that it's tight, especially if they really want to hold on to Waters or Tacko or something. But they don't have to eat a guaranteed NBA deal to sign 4 draft picks, unless I'm missing something.
You cannot force a player to sign a 2-way contract. The attractive players at 47 are not going to agree to not get paid to fix the organization’s roster crunch.
 

nighthob

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His release is low and slow, and I absolutely hate it. But aside from that I think he's perfect as a Wanamaker replacement.
 

oumbi

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His release is low and slow, and I absolutely hate it. But aside from that I think he's perfect as a Wanamaker replacement.
I don't know all that much about Quickley. He seems to be a very good shooter, but how does he rate as a point guard? He averaged 1.9 assists to 1.6 turnovers per game last year as a sophomore. As an off the bench shooter I can see the attraction for a second round pick.

But, and I am asking here, does he carry much value as a point guard for the Celtics?
 

nighthob

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I don't know all that much about Quickley. He seems to be a very good shooter, but how does he rate as a point guard? He averaged 1.9 assists to 1.6 turnovers per game last year as a sophomore. As an off the bench shooter I can see the attraction for a second round pick.

But, and I am asking here, does he carry much value as a point guard for the Celtics?
People need to let go of the PG stuff. He handles well enough to get the ball upcourt and that's really all they need from him. They have a lot of playmakers. Especially if they elect to leave the roster unchanged and reset the luxury tax after the '21 season by letting Hayward walk. Because one of Gordon or Marcus would be on the floor with Quickley at all times and his job would be to get them the ball to initiate the offense. He can do that. (And if Larranaga can help him refine the shot they'd have a heck of a player.)
 

RedOctober3829

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The Boston Celtics have met with 6-foot-6 Duke shooting guard prospect Cassius Stanley virtually, according to Fortune Sport’s Chris Grenham.


I'd say he's a 2nd round pick prospect.
 

BigSoxFan

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oumbi

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I just saw this listing of players the Celtics have interviewed.

https://sports.yahoo.com/2020-nba-draft-celtics-reportedly-180924910.html

Here's that list of players who have "met" with the Celtics as of Tuesday, as reported by Grenham:

Cassius Stanley, G, Duke

Immanuel Quickley, G, Kentucky

Grant Riller, G, College of Charleston

Paul Reed, F, DePaul

Jay Scrubb, G, John A. Logan College

Daniel Oturu, F, Minnesota

Killian Tillie, F, Gonzaga

Payton Pritchard, G, Oregon

Naji Marshall, F, Xavier

Xavier Tillman, F, Michigan State

Desmond Bane, G, TCU

Tyrell Terry, G, Stanford
 

nighthob

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Naji Marshall is an interesting pick. He’s got some potential as a Semi replacement. I’m not wild about the release on his jumper. It’s not consistent, and it’s slow. He seems to shoot better with a lower release point, which is a problem given how slow it is. But, the form’s not broken, just some minor corrections that I could see looking at him last year.

Has very quick hands and feet, which serve him well defensively. He allegedly measured in at 6’7” with a +5 wingspan, which makes him effective at reducing the passing lanes. He certainly has potential as a 3&D wing. But he needs to stop skipping leg day when he works out. I can definitely see them liking him at #47.

I’m glad that they’re looking at Scrubb, though. While it’s a near certainty he never gets close to his 1% projection, if he ever did they’d have an all star on their hands.
 

RedOctober3829

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Nobody expects the Boston Celtics to walk away from the draft with three first-round rookies. "It feels like they're up to something," one scout told Bleacher Report.
Among the class' perceived premier group of prospects, Onyeka Okongwu jumps out as a fit and potential target for the Celtics, who can afford to trade multiple picks and a point guard they don't use.
View: https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1319059821556092929
 

DannyDarwinism

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Apparently the Warriors love Deni, and are considering taking him at 2. It’s grain of salt season, but he’s had a lot of top five buzz. I haven’t seen enough of him to have a meaningful opinion, but I am generally skeptical of taking wings who can’t shoot so early, particularly when they don’t have elite defense like Okoro, but Deni’s passing is supposed to be pretty special. More Saric than Doncic, but he’s more athletic than Dario.

View: https://twitter.com/theathleticnba/status/1319360238655516672?s=21
 

BigSoxFan

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Apparently the Warriors love Deni, and are considering taking him at 2. It’s grain of salt season, but he’s had a lot of top five buzz. I haven’t seen enough of him to have a meaningful opinion, but I am generally skeptical of taking wings who can’t shoot so early, particularly when they don’t have elite defense like Okoro, but Deni’s passing is supposed to be pretty special. More Saric than Doncic, but he’s more athletic than Dario.

View: https://twitter.com/theathleticnba/status/1319360238655516672?s=21
He'd probably do well in that system given his passing skills and the shooting form doesn't look terrible to me. Don't think I would pull the trigger at #2 but at least is a defensible position given the alternatives. Still think they're trying to trade the pick for a veteran player.
 

Kliq

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I'm going to laugh when some team picks LaMelo and he turns out to have all the same problems as Lonzo, except he is way more selfish.
 

DannyDarwinism

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He'd probably do well in that system given his passing skills and the shooting form doesn't look terrible to me. Don't think I would pull the trigger at #2 but at least is a defensible position given the alternatives. Still think they're trying to trade the pick for a veteran player.
Upper body looks good, but he shot 28% from 3 in Euroleague, 29% in FIBA, and he’s at 60% from the line, so it’s a legit concern. I agree about making a GFIN move, but if they don’t, this kid’s reported BBIQ (and size/athleticism) sound like a good fit. It’s that kind of draft.

I'm going to laugh when some team picks LaMelo and he turns out to have all the same problems as Lonzo, except he is way more selfish.
And a really bad defender as opposed to a pretty good one! I will say that from the little I’ve seen of him, he’s much less afraid of taking it to the hoop against grown ass Aussies than his brother was against Pac 10 kids, and he has great touch on his floaters. Flashy as hell- you just don’t see 6’7 dudes handle the rock like he does, and he makes some spectacular passes, but yeah, I’m skeptical as to how much he’ll contribute to winning.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Some recent video of potential draft and stash candidate at 47, Paul Eboua. Still very raw,, but absolutely an NBA body and athleticism. The kind I f guy the Raptors draft and polish into a gem.

View: https://youtu.be/k4lQLAND6Jg


Saw some recent video of Mason Jones (discussed earlier), and he looks like he’s put even more work into his body. Hard to believe that kids was pushing 270 in high school. Good on him to hit the gym and address the athleticism concerns.
 

Kliq

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And a really bad defender as opposed to a pretty good one! I will say that from the little I’ve seen of him, he’s much less afraid of taking it to the hoop against grown ass Aussies than his brother was against Pac 10 kids, and he has great touch on his floaters. Flashy as hell- you just don’t see 6’7 dudes handle the rock like he does, and he makes some spectacular passes, but yeah, I’m skeptical as to how much he’ll contribute to winning.
To me, every scouting report on him has the same flaws as Lonzo has. Kevin O'Connor has his minuses as "Great passer, but not a great playmaker", "Poor shooting mechanics" and "Rarely initiates contact and avoids it around the rim". That is in addition to his poor shot selection and bad defensive discipline.

I think Lonzo was drafted too high and people expected him to be a star when he is really a role player that does some things very well: Good defender, moves the ball very well and makes quick decisions, perhaps a solid catch-and-shoot guy. As long as he is expected to be a role player, he will do well because his flaws will not be as apparent. With LaMelo, it just seems like he has all the same flaws, but the mentality that he is a superstar which is only going to accentuate his flaws and minimize his strengths. I just don't see it with him, but maybe he'll prove me wrong and he will be a very good NBA player.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm going to laugh when some team picks LaMelo and he turns out to have all the same problems as Lonzo, except he is way more selfish.
...and worse defense, maybe significantly worse. I don't see the intrigue with LaMelo at all. Bad shooter. Lazy passer who tries to showboat. Not a great defender. Can't get into the lane and finish.
 

nighthob

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Looking at the shooting drill with Eboua the release point's lower than I'd like, but then it might just be what's comfortable for him. As a catch & shoot player it's not too much of a problem if he can release it more quickly and effectively attack closeouts. He's slightly undersized to be a C even by modern standards, but that might be his best position in the NBA. But even if he's a touch undersized he looks like he has the ability to become an energy big off the bench.

When you look at the available game tape (which is, admittedly, sparse), he anticipates rebounds well and has a knack for collecting putbacks. And you can do a lot worse at 47 than an effective high energy garbageman.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Looking at the shooting drill with Eboua the release point's lower than I'd like, but then it might just be what's comfortable for him. As a catch & shoot player it's not too much of a problem if he can release it more quickly and effectively attack closeouts. He's slightly undersized to be a C even by modern standards, but that might be his best position in the NBA. But even if he's a touch undersized he looks like he has the ability to become an energy big off the bench.

When you look at the available game tape (which is, admittedly, sparse), he anticipates rebounds well and has a knack for collecting putbacks. And you can do a lot worse at 47 than an effective high energy garbageman.
Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day while looking at Zeke Nnaji, who I like well enough as an energy big with some stretch potential, but if, as projected, it would require 26 or 30, that's just too high for a position that is generally cheap and fungible. (It’ll be interesting to see what Christian Wood and Jeremi Grant get paid.). 47 for Eboua would be much more palatable. Unless we have to use it to get off of Kanter or Poirier

Anyway, Zeke struggles with defending the perimeter but he's relentless and pretty athletic. The hair and uniform gave me some serious Jordan Hill vibes though.

Watching more Zona just left me even more impressed with Josh Green's defense. Super light on his feet, with great hips and core strength. I think he can legitimately D up a lot of NBA point guards, and give him a couple of years to add more strength, he'll be able to D up to 4s. Good instincts and a smart passer too. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but if he works that jump shot out, he's going to be a player.
 

nighthob

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OK, watching workout video of Jaden McDaniels...

He looks like he's put on 10-15 pounds since the NCAA season ended. Mostly upper body. He really needs to stop skipping leg day. But the fact that he's working out to bulk up is a good sign. But he has another 30-40 pounds to go if he's going to hit his 1% projection.

He's cleaned up the jumper some. In game tape his elbow drifts little when he shoots. In the workout tape the elbow's pure. He's lowered the release point slightly, but the shot looks quicker now and the slight hitch is gone. So as a tradeoff it's probably a good one.

He seems to be dribbling even better, now. Also a good sign in a 6'10" player.

He's still clearly a swing for the fences pick. In his interview footage he talked a lot about needing to learn to play better defense, which could just be talk. But otherwise it's an acknowledgment that he's been letting his quickness, hops, and length (he has a 9'1" standing reach) carry the defensive burden for him. So I'm now cautiously optimistic about him and am trying to talk myself into liking the pick if Boston takes him at #14. But I would seriously prefer Josh Green, warts and all (now if they could add Josh Green and Jay Scrub as well the J-Crew could rule the NBA).
 

benhogan

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OK, watching workout video of Jaden McDaniels...

He looks like he's put on 10-15 pounds since the NCAA season ended. Mostly upper body. He really needs to stop skipping leg day. But the fact that he's working out to bulk up is a good sign. But he has another 30-40 pounds to go if he's going to hit his 1% projection.

He's cleaned up the jumper some. In game tape his elbow drifts little when he shoots. In the workout tape the elbow's pure. He's lowered the release point slightly, but the shot looks quicker now and the slight hitch is gone. So as a tradeoff it's probably a good one.

He seems to be dribbling even better, now. Also a good sign in a 6'10" player.

He's still clearly a swing for the fences pick. In his interview footage he talked a lot about needing to learn to play better defense, which could just be talk. But otherwise it's an acknowledgment that he's been letting his quickness, hops, and length (he has a 9'1" standing reach) carry the defensive burden for him. So I'm now cautiously optimistic about him and am trying to talk myself into liking the pick if Boston takes him at #14. But I would seriously prefer Josh Green, warts and all (now if they could add Josh Green and Jay Scrub as well the J-Crew could rule the NBA).
You've done you're very best to like McDaniels. But where do you rank him amongst Hampton, Green, Nesmith, Precious, Bey?

It's probably a coin toss that McDaniels is available at 26 after his antics last season.
 

chrisfont9

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Yeah, we have a playing time crunch but there are roster spots available. I’d rather gamble on a guy like McDaniels if he’s there at 26 than Bolmaro. Plenty of room in Maine for some projects.
Is Maine a better place for Bolmaro than Barcelona? Am guessing the latter is higher level play, although maybe stylistically he's better off in the G League.
 

NomarsFool

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They are limited on the number of 2 way contracts. I think in Spain he wouldn’t impact the roster at all.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is Maine a better place for Bolmaro than Barcelona? Am guessing the latter is higher level play, although maybe stylistically he's better off in the G League.
Sorry, was referring to Maine for Jaden. Assumption would be Bolmaro stays in Europe.
 

nighthob

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You've done you're very best to like McDaniels. But where do you rank him amongst Hampton, Green, Nesmith, Precious, Bey?

It's probably a coin toss that McDaniels is available at 26 after his antics last season.
Hampton's top projection is as an all star lead guard, and I have a lot more faith that he reaches that projection than McDaniels. Hampton's clearly busted ass to fix his game in his time off and he's always had the gym rat rep (which is a great tell for projecting guys). Achiuwa is, like McDaniels, a swing for the fences move. His 1% projection would be a Bam Adebayo type. But he's a seriously terrible shooter, so ultimately he has the same no floor problem that McDaniels does. He's also rather old for a freshman as he turned 21 a month ago, which has to temper expectations.

Green, Bey, and Nesmith I put in the roleplayer category. Nesmith looks like Buddy Hield v2.0. But his upside projection is still elite 3&D guy. If he could ever learn to play D. I'm much higher on Josh Green and Saddiq Bey (there are two Beys this year, guys, and Tyler's pretty good too). Bey's a classic high floor/low ceiling player. He's going to carve out a 12-15 year career as a 3&D specialist with a high end projection of elite 3&D guy.

Green needs to fix the jumper. And learn to play offense. But he's an elite defender with length (6'6" +4 wingspan), strength, and hops. In his workout tape he looks like he's really filled out in the time off (during the season I would have pegged him at 200-205, he looks more like 220 now). He's refined the jumper some, there's still a hitch at the top of the motion, but it's not as ugly as before. The release point's more consistent than in his game tape and the overall motion's cleaner. But he's got a ways to go yet. That being said he's a high floor/high ceiling type. You can't teach those physicals. He's also a gym rat, so reason to hope that he can learn to play offense. All told he could be Jaylen v1.2 if he hits his top projection.

So, ranking them?
  1. R.J. Hampton
  2. Josh Green
  3. Saddiq Bey
  4. Precious Achiuwa
  5. Jaden McDaniels
  6. Aaron Nesmith
EDIT: Meant to add... Boston's sort of limited in how they can build off the Jay-Crew with the new covid19 economic landscape. This is the reason why I suspect that they might take a home run swing at JMD if Hampton's off the board at 14. If he can get to 235-240 and if he can get straight, he's got superstar potential and fits ideally with the other Jays.
 
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128

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KOC has Minnesota sending No. 17 to Boston in exchange for Nos. 26 and 30.
 

NomarsFool

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So, ranking them?
  1. R.J. Hampton
  2. Josh Green
  3. Saddiq Bey
  4. Precious Achiuwa
  5. Jaden McDaniels
  6. Aaron Nesmith
Isn't Hampton a lot like Romeo Langford? Both former high school stars who slipped a bit, inconsistent jumper, about the same size. Just seems hard to develop two of the same type of player.
 

BigSoxFan

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Absolutely no way am I passing on Nesmith twice with 14/17. But Nesmith/Hampton and Achiuwa would be a nice result from this draft.
 

128

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Isn't Hampton a lot like Romeo Langford? Both former high school stars who slipped a bit, inconsistent jumper, about the same size. Just seems hard to develop two of the same type of player.
That was my first thought after reading KOC's description of Hampton's strengths/weaknesses. Can we please add someone who's already a good shooter?