2020 Patriots Draft Prospects
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
I'm very curious what direction they go at WR. Do they need an X type to let Harry play inside more / hedge against Harry being a bust? Do they need a pure slot guy to be heir apparent to Edelman? Do they need a speedster? An all-around guy? I could see any of those - or waiting until a late-round dart throw.
Zierlien has the Pats drafting Center Cesar Ruiz from Michigan, with pick #23.
Brooks has the Pats drafting S Xavier Mckinney from Alabama with same pick.
Brooks has the Pats drafting S Xavier Mckinney from Alabama with same pick.
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So you're BB looking for a WR in the draft, and you are up, with both Tee Higgins and Henry Ruggs III available. Higgins is a monster at 6'4", 215 (kind of like Harry). Ruggs is 6'0", 190, but might be able to run a sub-4.3 40.
Who are you taking?
Who are you taking?
Here is my mock for them.
With this one I did trade back a couple of times and went to booster the trenches as well as upgrade the skill players.
WR wise my favorite guys who are realistic for them (meaning not JJ who is my #1) are slots, Hamler and Jefferson and they were both gone at 35 let alone 45 where I picked.
Real quick: Cushenberry is a monster as a center. If Andrews is a risk or can't come back I would be overjoyed with him. Bartch could be a swing tackle.
NFL.com 3-rd mock
Top 10
Bengals-Burrow
Redskins-Young
Lions-Okudah
Giants-Lamb
Dolphins-Herbert
Chargers-Tua
Panthers-Brown
Cardinals-Wills
Jags-Simmons
Browns-Kinlaw
Pats
23. Ross Blacklock, DT, TCU
87. Anfernee Jennings, EDGE, Alabama
98. Thaddeus Moss, TE, LSU
100. Antonio Gandy-Golden, WR, Liberty
Top 10
Bengals-Burrow
Redskins-Young
Lions-Okudah
Giants-Lamb
Dolphins-Herbert
Chargers-Tua
Panthers-Brown
Cardinals-Wills
Jags-Simmons
Browns-Kinlaw
Pats
23. Ross Blacklock, DT, TCU
87. Anfernee Jennings, EDGE, Alabama
98. Thaddeus Moss, TE, LSU
100. Antonio Gandy-Golden, WR, Liberty
NFL.com 3-rd mock
Top 10
Bengals-Burrow
Redskins-Young
Lions-Okudah
Giants-Lamb
Dolphins-Herbert
Chargers-Tua
Panthers-Brown
Cardinals-Wills
Jags-Simmons
Browns-Kinlaw
Pats
23. Ross Blacklock, DT, TCU
87. Anfernee Jennings, EDGE, Alabama
98. Thaddeus Moss, TE, LSU
100. Antonio Gandy-Golden, WR, Liberty
Top 10
Bengals-Burrow
Redskins-Young
Lions-Okudah
Giants-Lamb
Dolphins-Herbert
Chargers-Tua
Panthers-Brown
Cardinals-Wills
Jags-Simmons
Browns-Kinlaw
Pats
23. Ross Blacklock, DT, TCU
87. Anfernee Jennings, EDGE, Alabama
98. Thaddeus Moss, TE, LSU
100. Antonio Gandy-Golden, WR, Liberty
I have no idea who either guys is, but I wish they could just sign a sprinter and teach him how to catch. Is Skeets Nehemiah Jr. available?
I sprint to the podium and take Ruggs. Ruggs to me is a better and larger version of Hollywood Brown. Sign me up. He is a decent route runner and can beat press coverage. He can play all over. Ruggs trump card wins and wins often. I like Higgins and he and Harry could be on the field at once but if they see Harry as a primary x then Ruggs is much better fit. In general I think Ruggs is the much more dynamic player.
Edit: I’m seeing some Pats draft twitter guys also pine for Jefferson at 23. I’d take him in a heartbeat too. Best route runner in the class not from Alabama.
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Daniel Jeremiah is the clear #1 for me. He sets the tone for pretty much all of Draft Twitter. For example Mekhi Becton was pretty much universally listed as a mid-round player. Jeremiah debuted him as a potential Top 10 pick and everyone immediately put him in the 1st round. It was funny. Jeremiah is really good and very plugged in.
Jim Nagy is another must follow. He runs the Senior Bowl and is a highly respected, long time scout (including with the Patriots). He's pretty transparent with his evaluations. He recently tweeted out Josh Uche was the best defensive player at the Senior Bowl and how it's weird no one has him in their 1st round mock drafts.
For national types, Albert Breer and his SI team does good work in talking to league sources. Greg Cosell from NFL films will break down the QB prospects and write up scouting reports. I haven't seen anything from him yet but I'm sure after the combine his work will start to trickle out.
Dane Brugler is pretty good but behind the Atlantic's paywall. I don't have a subscription, but I still follow him and respect his opinions. Matt Miller is a decent follow as well, and no paywall. If you really want to get into the weeds, @joshbdraft specializes in small school prospects. It's how I knew who Keion Crossen was before the Pats drafted him and knew he was an athletic freak.
For Patriots content, Evan Lazar is good and puts in the work. And certainly SOSH's own Mark Schofield has done a great job (and he's as much national as he is Patriots at this point and big credit to him for going for it).
Tight end crop this year is thin and the guys with the body types the Pats like, Pinkney and Albert O, did not have stellar ends to their college careers. Pinkney looked awful at the senior bowl from all reports there. I think the best prospect there is Adam Trautman out of Dayton.
I have watched enough shitty tape on Trautman and he reminds me of my TE1 in 2018, Dallas Goedert. He is an ascending player. Former QB, athletic, bigger bodied and blocked well at the senior bowl week. He’s coming from FCS and he definitely is on the rawer side but he consistently wins in a variety of ways. He dominated the competition and that’s what you want to see from those guys. The problem is he would be a 2nd round pick because he probably won’t be there by 87.
Wide receivers is a different story.
I want to come back to Justin Jefferson. Justin Jefferson is a bad-ass in the slot. He's a deceptive route runner. He is a both a great vertical and horizontal route runner and has run a variety of routes in his career. Heady player, can pick apart a zone and knows how to combat different types of coverages and exploit leverage. He can run jet sweeps and has good vision. There is a ton of polish to his game already. I think he would eventually replace what Edelman brings except for maybe he won't line up outside.
If I were the Pats I'd most likely trade down from 23 and try to net a 2nd and a 3rd. 5 picks in the 40-100 range can take care of a lot of needs including WR.
Another guy I technically have to finish is Bryan Edwards. He is a somewhat polarizing player who could be a big slot of flanker but who struggles right now against press and playing outside. He's another guy who I love the mental makeup as well how he attacks the middle of the field. I want to see his testing but as of now I have him as a top 75 player. He is big, 6'3" and 215 and fluid for his size. He does round off some horizontal breaks but I see that for most of the bigger WRs. Oh, another plus, big boy can return punts.
I have watched enough shitty tape on Trautman and he reminds me of my TE1 in 2018, Dallas Goedert. He is an ascending player. Former QB, athletic, bigger bodied and blocked well at the senior bowl week. He’s coming from FCS and he definitely is on the rawer side but he consistently wins in a variety of ways. He dominated the competition and that’s what you want to see from those guys. The problem is he would be a 2nd round pick because he probably won’t be there by 87.
Wide receivers is a different story.
I want to come back to Justin Jefferson. Justin Jefferson is a bad-ass in the slot. He's a deceptive route runner. He is a both a great vertical and horizontal route runner and has run a variety of routes in his career. Heady player, can pick apart a zone and knows how to combat different types of coverages and exploit leverage. He can run jet sweeps and has good vision. There is a ton of polish to his game already. I think he would eventually replace what Edelman brings except for maybe he won't line up outside.
If I were the Pats I'd most likely trade down from 23 and try to net a 2nd and a 3rd. 5 picks in the 40-100 range can take care of a lot of needs including WR.
Another guy I technically have to finish is Bryan Edwards. He is a somewhat polarizing player who could be a big slot of flanker but who struggles right now against press and playing outside. He's another guy who I love the mental makeup as well how he attacks the middle of the field. I want to see his testing but as of now I have him as a top 75 player. He is big, 6'3" and 215 and fluid for his size. He does round off some horizontal breaks but I see that for most of the bigger WRs. Oh, another plus, big boy can return punts.
Trautman, Bryant and Kmet are all in the same ballpark for me. I think they all fit what the Patriots want their TEs to do, and I think there's a reasonable chance one of them is there at #87. Devin Asiasi is growing on me as one of the lower tier TE options. Draft Twitter seems pretty high on Moss, but I actually like Asiasi better. They're built the same and would ultimately fill the same type of role, but Asiasi seems more explosive.
As for Justin Jefferson, do you have a comp for him? I know Jeremiah loves the player, but I'm not there. LSU's offense was just so good it's hard for me to evaluate him. He was productive as hell, but I try to think how he'd look at a program like Virginia or South Carolina. Would I consider him a 1st rounder then? His physical traits are just okay. He didn't look overly sudden, which is pretty important for a slot receiver. He wasn't overly physical. So how does he win at the NFL level? Is he Jordan Matthews 2.0?
I definitely agree that a trade down from 23 is highly likely. It's a deep draft and I'm not sure there's going to be much different in value between 23 and 40. Maybe someone unexpected slides, but barring that, I'm all for trading down.
@EL Jeffe re tight ends, Bryant and Kmet unfortunately to me can’t block well enough to be drafted until... maybe 87 or round 4. No chance 1 (obviously) and only Trautman would be a 2. Bryant and Kmet are move/flex guys and Bill traditionally does not really invest highly in them. That’s my only concern. Personally I like Bryant more as a receiving weapon I just don’t think the Pats will. (Re Bryant vs Kmet). While watching Chase Claypool Kmet definitely popped though.
If I had to go with a 2010 redux I would draft Trautman in the 2nd and Kmet, Bryant, one of the flex guys in the 3rd or 4th.
As for a comp for Jefferson. The Draft Network has Tyler Boyd. I think that's a decent one. Jarvis Landry maybe? Comps are tricky. His best skills are his route running and RAC. He has good hands too. Even if he ends up being a 2 for most and I am half a round grade higher I am ok with that. I think for the Pats he would kill option routes.
Where he struggles is beating press and against tighter mtm coverage. Shocker, him and 90% of the other WRs coming out.
As for a comp for Jefferson. The Draft Network has Tyler Boyd. I think that's a decent one. Jarvis Landry maybe? Comps are tricky. His best skills are his route running and RAC. He has good hands too. Even if he ends up being a 2 for most and I am half a round grade higher I am ok with that. I think for the Pats he would kill option routes.
Where he struggles is beating press and against tighter mtm coverage. Shocker, him and 90% of the other WRs coming out.
I think Kmet will eventually be league average to above league average as a blocker. He needs to get stronger, for sure, but I like his frame and he has some grit. My understanding is Bryant really opened some eyes at the Senior Bowl with his physicality. He was basically just a move TE at FAU, but looked like he can be more than that. He measures out similarly to Kittle when he came out, so maybe.
I can also seem them trading a late pick/pick swap for a guy like Adam Shaheen. 45th pick of the 2017 draft, but hasn't worked out in Chicago. Definitely has the size, and can probably use a change of scenery. Patriots generally seem comfortable trading for these types of guys on the last year of their rookie contracts.
I can also seem them trading a late pick/pick swap for a guy like Adam Shaheen. 45th pick of the 2017 draft, but hasn't worked out in Chicago. Definitely has the size, and can probably use a change of scenery. Patriots generally seem comfortable trading for these types of guys on the last year of their rookie contracts.
Shaheen has only played 27 games in 3 years, so the injury risk is real.
Might be tough to swing a deal, though, because the Bears are set to be aggressive in pursuit of a pass-catching TE to provide Trubisky options. They'll look at hard at the free agents, but will have to make some cuts to get significant cap room (at $13m now with a path to mid-$30m's)...but one of the very likely cuts is 3rd string TE Braunecker, who'd save them about $1.5m. Failing at free agency, the Bears will probably move hard in the draft for a TE. Given Pace's track record, I'd suspect they're looking hard at the athletic pass-catchers likely around in rounds 2-4 - Bryant (UW), Bryant (FAU), Hopkins (Purdue). Maybe they fall in love with Kmet and move up for him, but the Bears are lacking in draft capital right now.
This is a long-winded way of saying that Shaheen probably sticks around in Chicago as an affordable 3rd stringer and that the Bears will be another team competing with the Pats in the TE pool.
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I like Daniel Jeremiah too, especially the "Move the Sticks" podcast with Bucky Brooks. They were huge fans of Kamara before the 2017 draft.
I’ve looked at the following WRs and based on ITP’s grading system here are my pre-combine rankings.
WR rankings:
8.49
Ceedee Lamb: 8.49
Henry Ruggs: 8.49
Jerry Jeudy: 8.25
Justin Jefferson: 7.99
KJ Hamler: 7.99
Tee Higgins: 7.99
Bryan Edwards: 7.99
Laviska Shenault: 7.75
Jalen Reagor: 7.75
Devin Duvernay: 7.5
Denzel Mims: 7.5
Michael Pittman: 7.25
Brandon Aiyuk: 6.99
DPJ: 6.99
Isaiah Hodgins: 6.99
Chase Claypool: 6.50
James Proche: 5.50
Collin Johnson: 5.49
Van Jefferson: 5.49
Once I get some combine numbers I will fine tune. I expect Ceedee and Ruggs to make the leap to 8.5+. I just want to see their final numbers.
WR rankings:
8.49Ceedee Lamb: 8.49
Henry Ruggs: 8.49
Jerry Jeudy: 8.25
Justin Jefferson: 7.99
KJ Hamler: 7.99
Tee Higgins: 7.99
Bryan Edwards: 7.99
Laviska Shenault: 7.75
Jalen Reagor: 7.75
Devin Duvernay: 7.5
Denzel Mims: 7.5
Michael Pittman: 7.25
Brandon Aiyuk: 6.99
DPJ: 6.99
Isaiah Hodgins: 6.99
Chase Claypool: 6.50
James Proche: 5.50
Collin Johnson: 5.49
Van Jefferson: 5.49
Once I get some combine numbers I will fine tune. I expect Ceedee and Ruggs to make the leap to 8.5+. I just want to see their final numbers.
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I'm not sure if Shaheen would be available or not, it was more about that the type of guy the Patriots could pursue (high draft pick, last year on his rookie deal, hasn't worked out). If Chicago acquires another TE (FA or high pick), I could see them valuing a new draft pick higher than Shaheen as a 3rd TE. But who knows.
Vance McDonald is another TE I could see the Patriots targeting. Pittsburgh is up against the cap and they can save about $5.7m by moving on from McDonald. He's coming off a meh season (38 catches, 273 yards), but was pretty good in 2018 (50/610). He also has a reputation of being a solid blocker, so in theory, he could be NE's featured Y. He's signed through 2021. NE has seen him a few times over the past couple of years, so I'm sure they have a pretty good feel for his game.
One thing I've wondered about is whether NE might tweak what they look for in their off-the-ball LBs. Typically, they've gone big & strong with the ability to take on linemen and shed blocks being more important than side-to-sideline speed (ideally both, but they've prioritized the former). As more and more teams are beginning to use mobile QBs and spread the field horizontally (particularly when they can force a favorable match-up), I'm curious if BB evens out the pendulum a little bit. There are some pretty fun run-and-chase LBs in this class. I haven't done a deep dive on the position as a whole, but I've watched a couple of games on a few of the players. Some of the notable ones I've watched:
Jordan Brooks: I talked a bit about him before. I really like his burst; when he sticks his foot in the ground, he's got an explosive close. He misses some tackles (tends to duck his head) and isn't as physical as you'd want taking on blocks, but he's very athletic. Texas Tech had a really bad defense, so it made it a little difficult to evaluate him. I think he'll definitely benefit from playing with a much better supporting cast. I didn't see him matched up in coverage much, but he looked fairly comfortable in space (change of direction looked fine) and he runs well enough to cover. His medicals will have to check out, but looks like a Day 2 player to me (I originally thought maybe 1st round, but then I saw his Oklahoma game and it wasn't as impressive).
Akeem Davis-Gaither: His South Carolina tape is something else. He's like 6'2, 215# but plays much bigger. App St. moved him all over the field; edge, MLB, safety-type responsibilities...and he was good everywhere. Knifes through traffic, even against SEC OTs. Really fun player to watch. He's nothing like the LBs BB has drafted, but he's going to make some team really happy. Someone will probably take him Day 2. I'd love for it to be NE, but I'm not holding my breath.
Malik Harrison: He actually does fit the NE physical profile for a LB (6'3, 246#). He's also going to test really well and run very fast. That being said, his tape didn't do much for me. He looked stiff and robotic. There'd be some wow plays sprinkled in, but he's on my buyer-be-ware list. He'll probably go Day 2 based on measurements and pedigree, but he's Day 3 for me.
Justin Strnad: I don't think he was on Draft Twitter's radar until Jeremiah posted some Instagram videos of him. Strnad is twitchy and explosive. Looked good in coverage, effective blitzer, top ST cover guy for Wake. A torn biceps in October makes him a medical red flag, but it's typically an injury players can recover from. He's a really good player. I think he's a Day 2 guy based on a small sample size, but he could slip if the medicals aren't clean. At 6'3, 235#, he's not too far from the prototype (if he can add the weight). There's not much tape on him out there, so I'm a little curious if he can play off the edgse in some sub-packages. I didn't see him do it, but I imagine he could.
Logan Wilson: Wyoming kid who used to be a safety but grew into LB size (about 6'2, 240#) and is pretty close to NE's physical prototype. Good play speed and range, solid in coverage, clean tackler...a lot of positives. Looks like a Day 2 guy to me. He definitely strikes me as a guy the Patriots would be interested in. Super productive, instinctive, plays fast. He's not Bentley or Hightower, with the ability to knock OL back, but he's pretty tough and physical.
I haven't looked at Murray from Oklahoma or Queen from LSU, but both have 1st round buzz. I'm sure I'll get to them at some point. Just from catching glimpses during live games, Murray looks good getting off the bus. Has some explosion but I didn't love him in coverage. Initial impression was that he wasn't a 3-down lock, which makes me leery of using a 1st on him. I could be wrong. I have nothing on Queen; I was always fixated on Chaisson (who I love on Day 1), Lawrence (I love him as a 3rd round pick) and Delpit (ehh). A lot of really smart people really love Queen, so I'm sure I'll get to him soon.
Jordan Brooks: I talked a bit about him before. I really like his burst; when he sticks his foot in the ground, he's got an explosive close. He misses some tackles (tends to duck his head) and isn't as physical as you'd want taking on blocks, but he's very athletic. Texas Tech had a really bad defense, so it made it a little difficult to evaluate him. I think he'll definitely benefit from playing with a much better supporting cast. I didn't see him matched up in coverage much, but he looked fairly comfortable in space (change of direction looked fine) and he runs well enough to cover. His medicals will have to check out, but looks like a Day 2 player to me (I originally thought maybe 1st round, but then I saw his Oklahoma game and it wasn't as impressive).
Akeem Davis-Gaither: His South Carolina tape is something else. He's like 6'2, 215# but plays much bigger. App St. moved him all over the field; edge, MLB, safety-type responsibilities...and he was good everywhere. Knifes through traffic, even against SEC OTs. Really fun player to watch. He's nothing like the LBs BB has drafted, but he's going to make some team really happy. Someone will probably take him Day 2. I'd love for it to be NE, but I'm not holding my breath.
Malik Harrison: He actually does fit the NE physical profile for a LB (6'3, 246#). He's also going to test really well and run very fast. That being said, his tape didn't do much for me. He looked stiff and robotic. There'd be some wow plays sprinkled in, but he's on my buyer-be-ware list. He'll probably go Day 2 based on measurements and pedigree, but he's Day 3 for me.
Justin Strnad: I don't think he was on Draft Twitter's radar until Jeremiah posted some Instagram videos of him. Strnad is twitchy and explosive. Looked good in coverage, effective blitzer, top ST cover guy for Wake. A torn biceps in October makes him a medical red flag, but it's typically an injury players can recover from. He's a really good player. I think he's a Day 2 guy based on a small sample size, but he could slip if the medicals aren't clean. At 6'3, 235#, he's not too far from the prototype (if he can add the weight). There's not much tape on him out there, so I'm a little curious if he can play off the edgse in some sub-packages. I didn't see him do it, but I imagine he could.
Logan Wilson: Wyoming kid who used to be a safety but grew into LB size (about 6'2, 240#) and is pretty close to NE's physical prototype. Good play speed and range, solid in coverage, clean tackler...a lot of positives. Looks like a Day 2 guy to me. He definitely strikes me as a guy the Patriots would be interested in. Super productive, instinctive, plays fast. He's not Bentley or Hightower, with the ability to knock OL back, but he's pretty tough and physical.
I haven't looked at Murray from Oklahoma or Queen from LSU, but both have 1st round buzz. I'm sure I'll get to them at some point. Just from catching glimpses during live games, Murray looks good getting off the bus. Has some explosion but I didn't love him in coverage. Initial impression was that he wasn't a 3-down lock, which makes me leery of using a 1st on him. I could be wrong. I have nothing on Queen; I was always fixated on Chaisson (who I love on Day 1), Lawrence (I love him as a 3rd round pick) and Delpit (ehh). A lot of really smart people really love Queen, so I'm sure I'll get to him soon.
What’s crazy to me is how good the WR class is and how many warts the TE class has.
With WRs I’ve watched 20, plan to watch 35 and so far I have 20 draftable grades.
With the tight ends I have been through 7 and they are in two categories: Eh and Ehhhh....?
Kmet and Trautman could develop into traditional TE1s, play inline, flex out, or be a move TE but their biggest hurdles are with blocking and the fact that they are super raw. Will they ever materialize into that ceiling? Remains to be seen. Right now I’d say they are primarily flex guys who can also do some move work.
Harrison Bryant could also maybe develop into an inline guy but his blocking is good enough right now to be a move TE. His receiving is good enough to be a flex guy. Where he struggles is as an inline blocker. He's somewhat polished as a prospect with above average traits across the board. He reminds me a lot of Sternberger last year. Right now he is getting 3rd or 4th round buzz. If you like bully-ball he is your ideal TE2 if he doesn't materialize into an inline guy. I like Harrison Bryant a lot because I think he has a floor because he does so much good to great as either a receiver or a blocker.
Albert O is a seam-buster and a red zone threat but that's it. He is super stiff in the hips which impacts his entire game.
Cheyenne O'Grady has tape similar to Harrison Bryant but has some major off-field character concerns.
Hunter Bryant and Brycen Hopkins are flex options only. They can't block but they are good receivers. I think Hopkins is the best pure route runner in the class but has mediocre hands where Bryant reminds me a lot of sweat-leaf but is a worse blocker. Hunter Bryant has a high ceiling as a flex TE.
The problem is there are huge question marks with all of these guys. And that's the vibe I am getting from this group. There are 10 or so more TEs I want to look at but this class is underwhelming.
Quick edit: we know BB from history won't burn a day 1 or 2 pick on a TE who can't play in-line. So Unless he believes in Trautman, Harrison Bryant, or Kmet those cool fun flex or move guys are NOT options so don't get too attached imo.
With WRs I’ve watched 20, plan to watch 35 and so far I have 20 draftable grades.
With the tight ends I have been through 7 and they are in two categories: Eh and Ehhhh....?
Kmet and Trautman could develop into traditional TE1s, play inline, flex out, or be a move TE but their biggest hurdles are with blocking and the fact that they are super raw. Will they ever materialize into that ceiling? Remains to be seen. Right now I’d say they are primarily flex guys who can also do some move work.
Harrison Bryant could also maybe develop into an inline guy but his blocking is good enough right now to be a move TE. His receiving is good enough to be a flex guy. Where he struggles is as an inline blocker. He's somewhat polished as a prospect with above average traits across the board. He reminds me a lot of Sternberger last year. Right now he is getting 3rd or 4th round buzz. If you like bully-ball he is your ideal TE2 if he doesn't materialize into an inline guy. I like Harrison Bryant a lot because I think he has a floor because he does so much good to great as either a receiver or a blocker.
Albert O is a seam-buster and a red zone threat but that's it. He is super stiff in the hips which impacts his entire game.
Cheyenne O'Grady has tape similar to Harrison Bryant but has some major off-field character concerns.
Hunter Bryant and Brycen Hopkins are flex options only. They can't block but they are good receivers. I think Hopkins is the best pure route runner in the class but has mediocre hands where Bryant reminds me a lot of sweat-leaf but is a worse blocker. Hunter Bryant has a high ceiling as a flex TE.
The problem is there are huge question marks with all of these guys. And that's the vibe I am getting from this group. There are 10 or so more TEs I want to look at but this class is underwhelming.
Quick edit: we know BB from history won't burn a day 1 or 2 pick on a TE who can't play in-line. So Unless he believes in Trautman, Harrison Bryant, or Kmet those cool fun flex or move guys are NOT options so don't get too attached imo.
I looked at 15 tight ends. I might check out an additional 1-5 depending on testing. Right now this is one or two days before we get all their testing numbers in which matter the most to TEs so expect some changes in here. Overall none of these guys strike me as a slam dunk TE1 who can play inline but also line up flexed out or as a move piece. None of them. I think there are 5 guys who *could* grow into that but none of them are ready right now and 2 guys who might be there now but have very low ceilings. The first 5 are Kmet, Trautman, Pinkney, Harrison Bryant, and Cheyenne O'Grady. Of this list I am higher on O'Grady and Pinkney than most. The two who have low ceilings are Thad Moss and then Deguara who I have some size and age concerns with. My rule is that if you don't have a RAS as a TE and have the size, speed, and blocking potential Bill won't invest a 1 or a 2 on you and Sweatleaf was a 4. So my lens is going to narrow the field a bit. Bill likes his TE1s (inline) 250 or above, 6'4" and above, and who can run 40's better than a 4.7. He also likes explosion there usually a good broad.
If I think someone could be a complete TE (can line up anwhere and be a TE1): I will Bold their name. Thad Moss can be a move or an inline guy but he doesn't profile as someone you'd want to flex out a lot.
Inline +:
Harrison Bryant: 7.25
Devin Asiasi: 7.0
Cole Kmet: 6.99
Adam Trautman: 6.99
Colby Parkinson: 6.99
Jared Pinkney: 6.75
Thad Moss: 6.5
Josiah Deguara: 6.5
Cheyenne O'Grady: 6.5
Flex Only:
Hunter Bryant: 7.25
Brycen Hopkins: 7.0
Albert O: 6.0
Mitchell Wilcox: INC
Inline Only:
Jacob Breeland: He's a blocker only and maybe move too. He reminds me of Ryan Izzo. Limited athletically. Stiff in the hips, 5.00
Sean McKeon: Limited athletically, stiff in the hips, slow, and blocking inline is his only good skill. 4.5
Athletic testing is going to impact these grades the most of any position.
If I think someone could be a complete TE (can line up anwhere and be a TE1): I will Bold their name. Thad Moss can be a move or an inline guy but he doesn't profile as someone you'd want to flex out a lot.
Inline +:
Harrison Bryant: 7.25
Devin Asiasi: 7.0
Cole Kmet: 6.99
Adam Trautman: 6.99
Colby Parkinson: 6.99
Jared Pinkney: 6.75
Thad Moss: 6.5
Josiah Deguara: 6.5
Cheyenne O'Grady: 6.5
Flex Only:
Hunter Bryant: 7.25
Brycen Hopkins: 7.0
Albert O: 6.0
Mitchell Wilcox: INC
Inline Only:
Jacob Breeland: He's a blocker only and maybe move too. He reminds me of Ryan Izzo. Limited athletically. Stiff in the hips, 5.00
Sean McKeon: Limited athletically, stiff in the hips, slow, and blocking inline is his only good skill. 4.5
Athletic testing is going to impact these grades the most of any position.
SMU, did you watch Dalton Keene at all? He's probably my favorite Day 3 TE sleeper in the class. 6'4, 251#, fluid and versatile player. VA Tech lined him up all over the place, (Y, H, RB, Flex) and he was productive everywhere. Tech had an offense system that won't translate to the NFL, so Keene's route tree was limited and he didn't really excel at any one thing. But still, his versatility could keep him active on game days (he also profiles as a good ST player). He left as a true junior, so I think his best football is still ahead of him.
I have nothing to add other than to say you do awesome work in this thread. Really appreciate these write ups.
I have not yet but I can’t wait to. He is actually the next guy up Measurements are coming in now. This is so exciting.
Couple of things: Harrison Bryant and Thad Moss have length issues. Bryant might be a move or flex guy but I really like him as a move piece. Feel like he has a v well rounded game there. I might be out on Moss until later day 3 and I hate to say it but his best role is inline and he has poor length. Athleticism is subpar. We will know Thursday.
Tyrie Cleveland is my Day 3 WR binkie. 6'2+, 210#. He's a plus ST performer and has upside as a receiver. I see him in the David Givens trajectory where he makes the roster on ST while he develops as a route runner. I think the physical skills are there, and I like his toughness blocking (UF would align him inside to crack on edges). The production was never there (79 catches over four seasons) but I think there were some mitigating circumstances.
@EL Jeffe I haven't looked at him yet. There are too many good receivers this year, right?
Florida though is where (good) receivers go to die
.
Measurements have come in for WRs/TEs/QBs.
Measurements are helpful to evaluate where tight ends might play best.
For inline guys: I want to see someone have 32 inch arms minimum because length as a blocker is helpful. I want them around 6'3" minimum as well as 250 pounds. 245 is the new 250 for tight ends so I'd take that too, I guess. I want at least 9 inch hands but the bigger the better.
So how did our guys do?
Inline +:
Harrison Bryant: 7.25 Bryant, who I still think is a solid day 3 option as a move or flex option came in at 6'4" 6/8 but only 243 and arms at 30 and 5/8 inches. 9.5 inch hands
Devin Asiasi: 7.0 Hey big boy! I fucking love this guy. 6'3" 33 and 2/8 inch arms! 257 pounds, 9.75 inch hands. I believe he will test well. If he tests medium-well he's one of the guys I will bump up. I just need a 7+ RAS.
Cole Kmet: 6.99 6'5" and 6/8 262 pounds, 10.5 inch hands, and 33 inch arms. His best days are yet to come but how much and how quickly can he develop? NOT an immediate impact starter. Pending testing ceiling looks v high.
Adam Trautman: 6.99 6'5", 255, 9 and 4/8 inch hands, 32 and 5/8 inch arms, which are all within the threshholds.
Colby Parkinson: 6.99 6'7" and 2/8 and has the hips of someone 6'0", 252 pounds, 9 and 5/8 inch hands, and a 33 and 2/8 inch arms. Add weight to his lower half and he could have the highest ceiling in this class. Let's see the testing. On his hype train though!
Jared Pinkney: 6.75 6'4", 257, 32 and 7/8 inch arms with 10.5 inch hands. He looks the part.
Thad Moss: 6.5 Unfortunately Moss might be the TE whose stock plummets the most. 6'1" and 7/8, 250 pounds, 31 and 7/8 inch arms, 9 and 7/8 inch hands. He's not going to test well and he's short with small arms. His best fit looked to be inline but he might have to be a move only option. He can engage LBs and toss them around on the go. But that's not someone you pay a day 1, 2 or early 3 pick for.
Josiah Deguara: 6.5 6'2" and 3/8, 242, 31 and 5/8 inch arms, and 9 inch hands. Too small for an inline roll. Probably a move or flex option though I just am not sure he tests that well and I don't like his ceiling.
Cheyenne O'Grady: 6.5 6'3" and 6/8 inches tall, 253 pounds, 33 and 5/8 inch arms with 10 and 1/8 inch hands. He's older with the off-field issues but has a great dominator score, and I bet he tests ok too. Could be a low-end all-around option if everything checks out.
So to me only 6 guys as candidates to play inline.
Flex Only:
Hunter Bryant: 7.25
Brycen Hopkins: 7.0
Albert O: 6.0
Mitchell Wilcox: INC
Inline Only:
Jacob Breeland: He's a blocker only and maybe move too. He reminds me of Ryan Izzo. Limited athletically. Stiff in the hips, 5.00 6'4" and 7/8 inches, 252 pounds, 9 and 7/8 inch hands, and 32 and 5/8 inch arms. Check.
Sean McKeon: Limited athletically, stiff in the hips, slow, and blocking inline is his only good skill. 4.5 6'5", 242 pounds which is a little light, 9 and 1/8 inch hands, and he's long at 33 and 4/8 inch arms.
Florida though is where (good) receivers go to die
.Measurements have come in for WRs/TEs/QBs.
Measurements are helpful to evaluate where tight ends might play best.
For inline guys: I want to see someone have 32 inch arms minimum because length as a blocker is helpful. I want them around 6'3" minimum as well as 250 pounds. 245 is the new 250 for tight ends so I'd take that too, I guess. I want at least 9 inch hands but the bigger the better.
So how did our guys do?
Inline +:
Devin Asiasi: 7.0 Hey big boy! I fucking love this guy. 6'3" 33 and 2/8 inch arms! 257 pounds, 9.75 inch hands. I believe he will test well. If he tests medium-well he's one of the guys I will bump up. I just need a 7+ RAS.
Cole Kmet: 6.99 6'5" and 6/8 262 pounds, 10.5 inch hands, and 33 inch arms. His best days are yet to come but how much and how quickly can he develop? NOT an immediate impact starter. Pending testing ceiling looks v high.
Adam Trautman: 6.99 6'5", 255, 9 and 4/8 inch hands, 32 and 5/8 inch arms, which are all within the threshholds.
Colby Parkinson: 6.99 6'7" and 2/8 and has the hips of someone 6'0", 252 pounds, 9 and 5/8 inch hands, and a 33 and 2/8 inch arms. Add weight to his lower half and he could have the highest ceiling in this class. Let's see the testing. On his hype train though!
Jared Pinkney: 6.75 6'4", 257, 32 and 7/8 inch arms with 10.5 inch hands. He looks the part.
Cheyenne O'Grady: 6.5 6'3" and 6/8 inches tall, 253 pounds, 33 and 5/8 inch arms with 10 and 1/8 inch hands. He's older with the off-field issues but has a great dominator score, and I bet he tests ok too. Could be a low-end all-around option if everything checks out.
So to me only 6 guys as candidates to play inline.
Flex Only:
Hunter Bryant: 7.25
Brycen Hopkins: 7.0
Albert O: 6.0
Mitchell Wilcox: INC
Inline Only:
Jacob Breeland: He's a blocker only and maybe move too. He reminds me of Ryan Izzo. Limited athletically. Stiff in the hips, 5.00 6'4" and 7/8 inches, 252 pounds, 9 and 7/8 inch hands, and 32 and 5/8 inch arms. Check.
Sean McKeon: Limited athletically, stiff in the hips, slow, and blocking inline is his only good skill. 4.5 6'5", 242 pounds which is a little light, 9 and 1/8 inch hands, and he's long at 33 and 4/8 inch arms.
I co-sign the Asiasi love. The guy's explosiveness jumped out at me multiple times. He plays fast and he's built like a bowling ball. Fun guy to watch.
I still maintain Harrison Bryant is good value in the 3rd round and I'm not giving up the ghost that he'll be passable at the Y. I know 243# with short arms is a tough combo (to put it mildly) but I still think he's got enough toughness to wall off. Sullivan from LSU as a flex-only candidate is also worth a look. He's got an interesting background and got lost in the shuffle down there but he's a legit athlete who can go get it. Round 6 or 7 project for me.
I still maintain Harrison Bryant is good value in the 3rd round and I'm not giving up the ghost that he'll be passable at the Y. I know 243# with short arms is a tough combo (to put it mildly) but I still think he's got enough toughness to wall off. Sullivan from LSU as a flex-only candidate is also worth a look. He's got an interesting background and got lost in the shuffle down there but he's a legit athlete who can go get it. Round 6 or 7 project for me.
I looked at Zach Baun last night, OLB/Edge (KVN role) from Wisconsin.
I want to start with his weaknesses: He's undersized. He is listed at 6'3" 240 pounds and has short arms. He struggles against the run setting an edge on the LOS. Can get stuck on tackles around the LOS against the run (but also is great at shedding blocks so a mixed bag there). He has experience in zone coverage but no man-to-man yet. He had a TD on an INT for example this year. Given how good his processing and zone coverage is I think he will work out there.
Here's my comparison: remember how last year Wino was basically a good to great athlete but not elite and who did everything well but maybe nothing elite and was a bit undersized? This is basically the KVN role version of that in Zach Baun. Baun has had consistent production for multiple years. He is an intelligent and savvy processor. Football IQ is a trait and he has it in spades. He's fast, with good burst and good bend. He has elite hands and counters. Can string together a variety of moves and counters too. He has great moves too and attacks concisely. He has an outside to inside move that is deadly. His motor is ALWAYS hot. I love Baun. I think he would make a great Patriot.
Here's a guy who should IMO go in the top 100. I have him at a 7.99 and if he tests as a ~8.5 or 9+ RAS I might put him as a low 8. He's top 25 for some analysts and top 75 for almost all I have seen.
There are some guys who are fun to watch because they are gadget-players with some big play chunk highlights. Others are fun because they are good to great athletes and have a high football IQ and are great executers. I love watching Baun solve problems on the gridiron. I think Bill is going to love him and he might slide like Wino did because teams are going to overthink him because he is a tick undersized.
I want to start with his weaknesses: He's undersized. He is listed at 6'3" 240 pounds and has short arms. He struggles against the run setting an edge on the LOS. Can get stuck on tackles around the LOS against the run (but also is great at shedding blocks so a mixed bag there). He has experience in zone coverage but no man-to-man yet. He had a TD on an INT for example this year. Given how good his processing and zone coverage is I think he will work out there.
Here's my comparison: remember how last year Wino was basically a good to great athlete but not elite and who did everything well but maybe nothing elite and was a bit undersized? This is basically the KVN role version of that in Zach Baun. Baun has had consistent production for multiple years. He is an intelligent and savvy processor. Football IQ is a trait and he has it in spades. He's fast, with good burst and good bend. He has elite hands and counters. Can string together a variety of moves and counters too. He has great moves too and attacks concisely. He has an outside to inside move that is deadly. His motor is ALWAYS hot. I love Baun. I think he would make a great Patriot.
Here's a guy who should IMO go in the top 100. I have him at a 7.99 and if he tests as a ~8.5 or 9+ RAS I might put him as a low 8. He's top 25 for some analysts and top 75 for almost all I have seen.
There are some guys who are fun to watch because they are gadget-players with some big play chunk highlights. Others are fun because they are good to great athletes and have a high football IQ and are great executers. I love watching Baun solve problems on the gridiron. I think Bill is going to love him and he might slide like Wino did because teams are going to overthink him because he is a tick undersized.
I watched Uche and Baun recently (because I envision them playing similar roles) and I preferred Uche. I think you nailed the Baun evaluation; he's smart, instinctive, tough, and fairly versatile. Good, solid football player who strikes me as a rotational LB/Edge. Uche, while really undersized, played with noticeably more twitch and explosion. Uche flies around the field, like he was shot out of a cannon. His rush is basically a two-trick pony; speed and an inside counter (which is effective because his speed is real). Good, violent hands (Michigan's DL coach is impressive). He played off the ball quite a bit (much more than I was expecting) and looked comfortable doing so. I just like Uche's ceiling more than Braun because of the explosion. Some guys just have an It Factor for me when I watch them, and Uche's got it. #23 feels too high for me, and I can't envision him around in Round 3. But if they trade down (which is always a decent bet), I like Uche somewhere in Round 2. He's a 3-down player for me.
I finally got around to Patrick Queen. Honestly, I'm on an island on this one because I don't think he's nearly as special as he's being made out to be. He's very smart and instinctive (I must have watched him instantly and effortlessly handle 4-5 wheel route assignments), and he flows to the ball in a hurry. He moves very well and he's a 3 down LB for me. That being said, he's a drag-down tackler and often gets carried for a yard or two before bringing the ballcarrier down. I don't see violent, physical hands or much pop. I keep hearing the Devin White comparisons, but White was much more physical. I'm confident that Queen is going to be a good player, but I don't see special. I also don't see much separation between he and the other top off-the-ball LBs in this class. He didn't tackle as well as Wilson or Strnad, and he wasn't as effective a blitzer as Brooks. I always get nervous when I'm against the grain like this, but I just didn't see him live up to the hype. He's a Top 40 pick for me because of his combo of smarts, instincts, and speed...but I'm not seeing a Top 20 guy when I watch him.
I finally got around to Patrick Queen. Honestly, I'm on an island on this one because I don't think he's nearly as special as he's being made out to be. He's very smart and instinctive (I must have watched him instantly and effortlessly handle 4-5 wheel route assignments), and he flows to the ball in a hurry. He moves very well and he's a 3 down LB for me. That being said, he's a drag-down tackler and often gets carried for a yard or two before bringing the ballcarrier down. I don't see violent, physical hands or much pop. I keep hearing the Devin White comparisons, but White was much more physical. I'm confident that Queen is going to be a good player, but I don't see special. I also don't see much separation between he and the other top off-the-ball LBs in this class. He didn't tackle as well as Wilson or Strnad, and he wasn't as effective a blitzer as Brooks. I always get nervous when I'm against the grain like this, but I just didn't see him live up to the hype. He's a Top 40 pick for me because of his combo of smarts, instincts, and speed...but I'm not seeing a Top 20 guy when I watch him.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/patriots-told-vanderbilt-tight-end-220957569.html
Pats told Pinckney he has a “loser’s mentality.” Can probably scratch him off the list of potential TE’s.
Guess he lacked the killer instinct the Patriots prefer at the position.
womp womp
Pats told Pinckney he has a “loser’s mentality.” Can probably scratch him off the list of potential TE’s.
Guess he lacked the killer instinct the Patriots prefer at the position.
womp womp
The biggest challenges I have are how high to put Pittman and Mims. I liked both guys pre combine and both tested incredibly well. Pittman has the higher floor maybe and is more advanced now. Keep in mind their freak testing isn't getting them moved a lot here. Mims goes from a 7.5 pre-combine to an 8.0 and Pittman goes from a 7.25 to a 7.99.
Ceedee Lamb: 8.5
Henry Ruggs: 8.49
Jerry Jeudy: 8.25
Justin Jefferson: 8.01
Denzel Mims: 8.0
KJ Hamler: 7.99
Tee Higgins: 7.99
Bryan Edwards: 7.99
Michael Pittman: 7.99
Laviska Shenault: 7.75
Devin Duvernay: 7.75 (Has the film and testing to give me a huge ceiling and the ability to play all 3 positions)
Jalen Reagor: 7.75 (his bad agilities give me pause and I wasn't as high on him as others who have a first on him)
Brandon Aiyuk: 6.99
DPJ: 6.99 I need to reevaluate his tape and remember that Patterson was throwing to him and he is just a bad awful no good QB I am sorry.
Isaiah Hodgins: 6.99 - Way to go Isaiah! He's a tick slow but his agilities were great and he has a huge wingspan. He isn't a super high ceiling guy but could be a big slot or X.
Chase Claypool: 6.50 As a TE, not WR, he would be a big slot still. I thought that's what his best role would be. I need to think more about his grade.
James Proche: 5.50
Collin Johnson: 5.49
Van Jefferson: 5.49
Ceedee Lamb: 8.5
Henry Ruggs: 8.49
Jerry Jeudy: 8.25
Justin Jefferson: 8.01
Denzel Mims: 8.0
KJ Hamler: 7.99
Tee Higgins: 7.99
Bryan Edwards: 7.99
Michael Pittman: 7.99
Laviska Shenault: 7.75
Devin Duvernay: 7.75 (Has the film and testing to give me a huge ceiling and the ability to play all 3 positions)
Jalen Reagor: 7.75 (his bad agilities give me pause and I wasn't as high on him as others who have a first on him)
Brandon Aiyuk: 6.99
Isaiah Hodgins: 6.99 - Way to go Isaiah! He's a tick slow but his agilities were great and he has a huge wingspan. He isn't a super high ceiling guy but could be a big slot or X.
James Proche: 5.50
Collin Johnson: 5.49
Van Jefferson: 5.49
With tight ends If you don't have an 8+ RAS you're in trouble. Not ALL the good tight ends in the NFL are 8+ RAS but here are the receiving yard leaders:
1. Kelce: 9.52
2. Waller: 9.18
3. Kittle: 9.57
4. Ertz: 6.33
5. Mark Andrew: 7.4
6. Hooper: 8.46
7. Higbee: None
8. Jared Cook: 9.05
9. Hunter Henry: 6.58 (with a 4.68 40)
10. Dallas Goedert: 9.56
11. Greg Olsen: 9.42
12. Gesicki: 9.98
13. Fant: 9.89
14. Witten: 8.91 (9.62 for his year)
15. Engram: 9.17
16. Howard: 9.78
17. Doyle: None
18. Graham: 9.74
19. Jonnu Smith: 8.33
20. Jordan Akins: 7.01
14/18 (2 didn't test) are 8+ RAS. Hunter Henry at least ran at a good level.
There were only 3 TE's with a RAS better than 8.0 and Hopkins was v close so 4 potential.
Cole Kmet, my TE1 now, 9.22 RAS with a 4.7 40. His agilities were awful but that doesn't really matter. He needs of a ton of refinement in the blocking game and that does matter. Overall someone is going to overpay to draft him. Hope it isn't us. I like him in round 2, but with all the good players and how much of a risk his development is do you really want to burn a pick on Kmet when there are probably safer players with high ceilings as well on the board?
Trautman ran a 4.8 40 which probably takes him off their board but is an 8.29 RAS and then Dalton Keene who I haven't looked at is a 9.32.
So in summary this TE class is asscheeks. You might get some rotational H-Back or Flex tight ends out of it but no one to write home about.
Is tight end a need? Yes. There are a ton of other needs though and this is a deep class with a lot of good day 2 players who profile as less risky than this crop of tight ends. If they want to bolster their roster with a Deguara or Harrison Bryant or Asiasi day 3 that's great but don't expect anything more than the 2nd best tight end on the roster and maybe not anyone who can play inline.
Don't stretch for a position.
The draft is about managing risk.
The opposite situation of the TE crop is the WR class which guys like DJ have 27 day 1-2 grades. 27.
Edit: I will redo the TE grades sometime tomorrow.
1. Kelce: 9.52
2. Waller: 9.18
3. Kittle: 9.57
4. Ertz: 6.33
5. Mark Andrew: 7.4
6. Hooper: 8.46
7. Higbee: None
8. Jared Cook: 9.05
9. Hunter Henry: 6.58 (with a 4.68 40)
10. Dallas Goedert: 9.56
11. Greg Olsen: 9.42
12. Gesicki: 9.98
13. Fant: 9.89
14. Witten: 8.91 (9.62 for his year)
15. Engram: 9.17
16. Howard: 9.78
17. Doyle: None
18. Graham: 9.74
19. Jonnu Smith: 8.33
20. Jordan Akins: 7.01
14/18 (2 didn't test) are 8+ RAS. Hunter Henry at least ran at a good level.
There were only 3 TE's with a RAS better than 8.0 and Hopkins was v close so 4 potential.
Cole Kmet, my TE1 now, 9.22 RAS with a 4.7 40. His agilities were awful but that doesn't really matter. He needs of a ton of refinement in the blocking game and that does matter. Overall someone is going to overpay to draft him. Hope it isn't us. I like him in round 2, but with all the good players and how much of a risk his development is do you really want to burn a pick on Kmet when there are probably safer players with high ceilings as well on the board?
Trautman ran a 4.8 40 which probably takes him off their board but is an 8.29 RAS and then Dalton Keene who I haven't looked at is a 9.32.
So in summary this TE class is asscheeks. You might get some rotational H-Back or Flex tight ends out of it but no one to write home about.
Is tight end a need? Yes. There are a ton of other needs though and this is a deep class with a lot of good day 2 players who profile as less risky than this crop of tight ends. If they want to bolster their roster with a Deguara or Harrison Bryant or Asiasi day 3 that's great but don't expect anything more than the 2nd best tight end on the roster and maybe not anyone who can play inline.
Don't stretch for a position.
The draft is about managing risk.
The opposite situation of the TE crop is the WR class which guys like DJ have 27 day 1-2 grades. 27.
Edit: I will redo the TE grades sometime tomorrow.
For the TLR: No one but Kmet has the ceiling the Pats want and he has a long way to go. This class could help fill out the 53 but none of the options are particularly exciting. Next year though maybe?
Inline +:
Cole Kmet: 7.75 I don't give a shit about his agility drills. He has good speed and size. He will be on their board with his 4.7 because he is a physical specimen. With Kmet I think he is an immediate contributor as a receiver but even there he has work to do on how to use his body better boxing out receivers and in contested situations. I love the upside but I think the risk is higher than other 7.75's. I would rather go FA for TE and take someone else closer to contributing.
The counter view is that you can really mold this guy because he doesn't have a ton of ingrained bad habits because he hasn't played that much.
Adam Trautman: 6.99 His speed is mediocre. Agility drills don't matter much as a TE unless you are a receiver which, he is. He reminds me a bit of Kyle Rudolph but with more smoothness as a receiver. He has fluid hips in his routes. I think he still has a decent ceiling and could be a bottom 10-20 TE in the league with a lot of development. He just needs a ton of work in the blocking game.
Devin Asiasi: 6.75 - draft is about mitigating risk. As much as I like his limited tape and his weighted speed score is starter worthy he just isn't that dynamic.
Colby Parkinson: He tested... poorly. 6.49. I think he can maybe be a role player as a red zone weapon and a mismatch receiver with some inline duty if he puts on weight. Guy is a project with a low ceiling.
Cheyenne O'Grady: 6.0, I think he can do a little bit of everything but his athletic testing is mediocre. No ceiling.
Jared Pinkney: 4.99. He has some receiving ability for someone with a "loser mentality". Let's be honest. He has a fucking awful athletic profile and the Pats didn't like his attitude. Off the board!
HBack Only:
Thad Moss: 5.00 He has his blocking and is a check down option. I like him as a lead blocker. I think Moss is the opposite of his Dad. He isn't going to wow with athleticism. His game is blowing you the fuck up as a blocker and taking the checkdowns.
HBack - Flex - Move Yo Ass Around just don't play inline... much:
Harrison Bryant: 6.49 Solid day 3 option. Really wanted him to test in the 8s but as it is he's a solid receiver and blocker on the move. Can play some snaps inline but don't want him there a lot.
Deguara: 6.49 Do-it-all guy who is just a smaller version of Bryant but with just a tick more juice.
Flex Big Slot Only:
Brycen Hopkins: 7.0: He has a floor as an athletic receiver. He can''t block for shit either. His grade doesn't change unless you would commit to using him snap wise 60%+ of the time. If that's the case sure, bump him up to a 7.25 or 7.5. He also has some issues with concentration drops. Catch the ball before you turn upfield you jagass.
Hunter Bryant: 6.49 I like his tape, I really do, but for TE athleticism is so important and he is NOT a blocker at all. So when you run in the mid 4.7's as a receiver that isn't going to cut it unless you are Zach Ertz, or an exception. Draft is about mitigating risk.
Albert O: 6.49 Here's my take on Albert O and why none of us saw this coming. He's so stiff in the hips that he can't put himself in a position a lot of the times to utilize who straight line speed. Again, you want to maximize his skillset put him in the slot and use him in the red-zone.
Mitchell Wilcox: 4.99 You test like shit as a flex and this is what happens.
Inline Only:
Jacob Breeland: Still a 5.00 didn't test
Sean McKeon: Still a 4.5 and didn't test.
R: No one but Kmet has the ceiling the Pats want and he has a long way to go. This class could help fill out the 53 but none of the options are particularly exciting. Next year though maybe?Inline +:
Cole Kmet: 7.75 I don't give a shit about his agility drills. He has good speed and size. He will be on their board with his 4.7 because he is a physical specimen. With Kmet I think he is an immediate contributor as a receiver but even there he has work to do on how to use his body better boxing out receivers and in contested situations. I love the upside but I think the risk is higher than other 7.75's. I would rather go FA for TE and take someone else closer to contributing.
The counter view is that you can really mold this guy because he doesn't have a ton of ingrained bad habits because he hasn't played that much.
Adam Trautman: 6.99 His speed is mediocre. Agility drills don't matter much as a TE unless you are a receiver which, he is. He reminds me a bit of Kyle Rudolph but with more smoothness as a receiver. He has fluid hips in his routes. I think he still has a decent ceiling and could be a bottom 10-20 TE in the league with a lot of development. He just needs a ton of work in the blocking game.
Devin Asiasi: 6.75 - draft is about mitigating risk. As much as I like his limited tape and his weighted speed score is starter worthy he just isn't that dynamic.
Colby Parkinson: He tested... poorly. 6.49. I think he can maybe be a role player as a red zone weapon and a mismatch receiver with some inline duty if he puts on weight. Guy is a project with a low ceiling.
Cheyenne O'Grady: 6.0, I think he can do a little bit of everything but his athletic testing is mediocre. No ceiling.
Jared Pinkney: 4.99. He has some receiving ability for someone with a "loser mentality". Let's be honest. He has a fucking awful athletic profile and the Pats didn't like his attitude. Off the board!
HBack Only:
Thad Moss: 5.00 He has his blocking and is a check down option. I like him as a lead blocker. I think Moss is the opposite of his Dad. He isn't going to wow with athleticism. His game is blowing you the fuck up as a blocker and taking the checkdowns.
HBack - Flex - Move Yo Ass Around just don't play inline... much:
Harrison Bryant: 6.49 Solid day 3 option. Really wanted him to test in the 8s but as it is he's a solid receiver and blocker on the move. Can play some snaps inline but don't want him there a lot.
Deguara: 6.49 Do-it-all guy who is just a smaller version of Bryant but with just a tick more juice.
Flex Big Slot Only:
Brycen Hopkins: 7.0: He has a floor as an athletic receiver. He can''t block for shit either. His grade doesn't change unless you would commit to using him snap wise 60%+ of the time. If that's the case sure, bump him up to a 7.25 or 7.5. He also has some issues with concentration drops. Catch the ball before you turn upfield you jagass.
Hunter Bryant: 6.49 I like his tape, I really do, but for TE athleticism is so important and he is NOT a blocker at all. So when you run in the mid 4.7's as a receiver that isn't going to cut it unless you are Zach Ertz, or an exception. Draft is about mitigating risk.
Albert O: 6.49 Here's my take on Albert O and why none of us saw this coming. He's so stiff in the hips that he can't put himself in a position a lot of the times to utilize who straight line speed. Again, you want to maximize his skillset put him in the slot and use him in the red-zone.
Mitchell Wilcox: 4.99 You test like shit as a flex and this is what happens.
Inline Only:
Jacob Breeland: Still a 5.00 didn't test
Sean McKeon: Still a 4.5 and didn't test.
Last edited:
Wow. If he weren't already off the Pats draft board for "having a loser's mentality", he certainly came off for telling people the Pats said he had a loser's mentality.
I think the Pats said something to him more along the lines of "that's a loser's mentality" to one of his responses. I don't think they are telling the kid he is a loser.
Ok, well he tested like crap and has been rumored to have character issues for a while now. He looked like poo during senior bowl week. I didn't want to let go until I really saw that he tested poorly. Then he tested poorly and had a bad interview. To quote @Brand Name "he's dead Jim" and both of us liked Pinkney more than consensus. That dream is dead.
He is a loser to us
. Also, yeah they aren't calling him a loser but if you are telling someone they have a loser's mentality... I mean we're getting close to splitting hairs I think.
Meh. Sometimes you give a tough, direct response to see how the young person responds. If he gets defensive or combative at that, how's he going to like getting criticized daily in the film room?
So assuming Brady comes back and we can't trade back these are the guys I would be OK with them taking at 23: I'll try and avoid the top 10-12 consensus guys as they have no shot at.
S: Xavier McKinney. I have looked at only him and Delpit. Xavier McKinney is your Patrick Chung 2.0.
Edge and/or OLB/Edge: Chaisson, AJ Epenesa, Yetur Gross-Matos.
DT: Haven't watched yet but maybe Kinlaw?
WR: Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Jefferson. (first 3 are likely gone)
TE: None
CB: None and have not watched.
Off-Ball LB: Have not watched.
Haven't watched any OL yet either.
So for me I have 6 realistic fits so far: Jefferson, Kinlaw, Chaisson, AJE, YGM, and Xavier McKinney.
What say you all?
S: Xavier McKinney. I have looked at only him and Delpit. Xavier McKinney is your Patrick Chung 2.0.
Edge and/or OLB/Edge: Chaisson, AJ Epenesa, Yetur Gross-Matos.
DT: Haven't watched yet but maybe Kinlaw?
WR: Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Jefferson. (first 3 are likely gone)
TE: None
CB: None and have not watched.
Off-Ball LB: Have not watched.
Haven't watched any OL yet either.
So for me I have 6 realistic fits so far: Jefferson, Kinlaw, Chaisson, AJE, YGM, and Xavier McKinney.
What say you all?
OL you could see OT Austin Jackson or C Cesar Ruiz. At CB, Trevon Diggs is an option.
I know you probably know this @RedOctober3829 but former SoSHer @mascho had a good interview with Ruiz on the Pats Pulpit podcast network. Scho Show is a good pod.
View: https://twitter.com/MichaelDavSmith/status/1233518083744112641
videos
View: https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1233527488812322824
View: https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1233529531971051521
he isn’t human.
trying to find the broad jump video.
edit: found it
View: https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1233531014519107584
videos
View: https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1233527488812322824
View: https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1233529531971051521
he isn’t human.
trying to find the broad jump video.
edit: found it
View: https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1233531014519107584
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It's this kind of thing that makes me laugh so hard when people say that the 72 Dolphins or 78 Steelers or even the 88 49ers would crush today's teams. Uh...no. No they wouldn't. Like...not even close. The size and athletic difference between guys now and then is just beyond description.
One of the Pats' presumed targets, TE Adam Trautman (Dayton), has had a great combine...
https://985thesportshub.com/2020/02/28/reported-patriots-target-stuns-scouts-at-nfl-combine-workouts/
https://985thesportshub.com/2020/02/28/reported-patriots-target-stuns-scouts-at-nfl-combine-workouts/