Cecil and Prince each hit 319 home runs. It would put a poetic coda on their story if, like his father, Prince gets 1 HoF voteFielder might be one and done too.... no longevity
Cecil and Prince each hit 319 home runs. It would put a poetic coda on their story if, like his father, Prince gets 1 HoF voteFielder might be one and done too.... no longevity
It'll be one to watchI hope Scott Rolex’s candidacy continues to pick up steam.
He was seconds to none at the hot corner.Yeah, it’s time people paid more attention to his career.
He had great hands.He was seconds to none at the hot corner.
Wow, I knew there weren't many, but I didn't realize it's the least-represented position on the diamond. Any reason why?I hope Scott Rolex’s candidacy continues to pick up steam. 3Bmen are under-represented in the hall, and his combination of offense and defense seems under appreciated if you’re not digging into the stats.
Because, for the most part, they're not as flashy defensively as shortstops and offensively as first basemen and outfielders.Any reason why?
I'd like to think this is the case. I think it means something when someone was tested for what, 15 years(?), and never failed a drug test. Obviously people can beat the system, but guys like A-Rod and Manny eventually got caught. Papi never did, and the connection between him and PEDs is marginal at best anyway. We really don't have any more solid reasoning to suspect his performance as being assisted as we do with any great player who is putting up numbers today.There's zero chance either A-Rod or Manny are getting voted in this year. They were both actually suspended for steroid use. Papi may have been in the surveillance results, but he played concurrently with those two and he was never suspended. That's a big difference that the voters aren't going to overlook.
Someone will always nring up his supposed "failed test" when we have no idea what he tested positive for, the tests were done with absolute anonimty and with probably not the most stringest safeguards implmented later on, and they were done for reference. Yet here we are. Hopefully the voters understand that he got tested A LOT and did not fail once.I'd like to think this is the case. I think it means something when someone was tested for what, 15 years(?), and never failed a drug test. Obviously people can beat the system, but guys like A-Rod and Manny eventually got caught. Papi never did, and the connection between him and PEDs is marginal at best anyway. We really don't have any more solid reasoning to suspect his performance as being assisted as we do with any great player who is putting up numbers today.
I'm not really sure what you're asking for in the bolded, and I don't really want to rehash old steroid/hgh stories all that much, but…Regarding the failed drug tests- hardly any of these guys actually tested positive for roids when testing was Implemented by the league, right? With Manny and A-Rod as the exceptions? Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc. were never accused or suspended by MLB for using. Ortiz will be an interesting case as the accusations against him seem less credible and he’s actually well liked.
You had me until the last dozen words. Manny retired as arguably the best right-handed hitter of his generation. And as you very well know, as a young player, he was part of one of the greatest lineups of the last 2 generations. It pained me to read those dozen words.I'm not really sure what you're asking for in the bolded, and I don't really want to rehash old steroid/hgh stories all that much, but…
There was no testing, never mind penalties, during McGwire's career. He retired in 2001, two years before testing and three before there were any penalties enforced. However, he openly used androstenedione, which has been banned since testing was implemented. Bonds and Clemens both played during the testing era and never failed a test, but both have been accused in court and legal documents. Clemens' own trainer testified the pitcher was using human growth hormone, but Clemen's wife fell on the syringe for him. Bonds was was involved with Balco and using the clear and cream (along with Sheffield) beyond any reasonable doubt. Since they were both in the twilight of their careers before testing started, it would be safe to assume both A-Rod and Manny also passed more drug tests in their careers than Bonds and Clemens.
Personally, I'd give them all a vote (except Sheffield, @#% that @$#%'er who also admitted to dogging his way out of Milwaukee, was an all-time bad fielder, and an all-star level piece of shit)… but placing those guys in different categories is kind of pointless. There's no reasonable argument any of them didn't use PED's. Not to mention, if Bonds and Clemens were playing under the same circumstances A-Rod later was, they could/would have been suspended even without a failed test. And while I'd still give Manny my vote, I also have no sympathy for the way he turned his career into a joke.
The massive problem with that list is that it tested substances that the MLB never actually banned. Part of the reason they created it, I would assume, was to see which substances were prevalent and to weigh whether to ban. Anyone holding anything against anyone on that list is bullshit.I'm assuming SOSH has at some point dissected the PED claims against Ortiz? I'd love to see it. Looking at the Manfred statements, the mishandling of the MLB and government PED list, the lack of any known failed tests, and Ortiz's minor league and early MLB numbers, it seems Ortiz's story holds up.
Same with Lincecum.Fielder might be one and done too.... no longevity
He may wind up on the outside looking in.He was seconds to none at the hot corner.
I think most of SoSH like to give Ortiz the benefit of doubt. But we are Red Sox fans and have a lot of reason to look at the specifics of his case. Ortiz has to hope that enough voters like him enough as a person and his career to also look at the specifics of his case. I guarantee that for a lot of people, he's lumped into the same bucket with a lot of the other PED players. Maybe not Clemens/Bonds/A-Rod level, but next tier down in terms of doubt.I'm assuming SOSH has at some point dissected the PED claims against Ortiz? I'd love to see it. Looking at the Manfred statements, the mishandling of the MLB and government PED list, the lack of any known failed tests, and Ortiz's minor league and early MLB numbers, it seems Ortiz's story holds up.
While I agree that Baines getting in was a joke, it's apples and oranges to apply that to Ortiz's case at this point. Baines was selected by the Veterans Committee, not the BBWAA. He only lasted five (out of a possible 15) years on the BBWAA ballot and barely made the cut to advance in those first four years (he peaked at 6.1% of the ballots). If Ortiz fails to reach the 5% minimum to remain on the ballot, then maybe we can start invoking the Baines travesty. Extremely doubtful that happens.After the Harold Baines fiasco, Ortiz being denied entry into the Hall would be one of the largest voting travesties in the history of the BBWA.
I'll be pretty ticked off if he doesn't make it.He may wind up on the outside looking in.
Desert of Maine and The Mystery Spot have to be up there
Bill Madden spends a few paragraphs doing his best to bury Papi's candidacy.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-20211127-pl6u5kbosna3jh27qigrcwtzge-story.html
The faux-outrage machine is definitely lining up against Ortiz. And weren't those "Mongo" stories found to be exaggerated if not debunked outright?
That…is a really bad ballot.
In his defense, Schilling asked to be taken off the ballot and was denied. That would be something to watch to see how many do end up voting for him.If you’re going to uphold the character clause and not vote for PED guys real or imagined, and (rightfully IMO) not vote for Schilling, voting for Omar Vizquel undercuts the legitimacy of your statement.
Jesus Christ, that is the single worst hall of fame ballot I have ever seen.
Jesus Christ. This is the single stupidest thing I have ever seen.Bill Madden spends a few paragraphs doing his best to bury Papi's candidacy.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-20211127-pl6u5kbosna3jh27qigrcwtzge-story.html
Yup. I have no beef with Ryan Howard, he had a nice career, but it’s ludicrous to vote him in but not David Ortiz. And that’s just one ridiculous example. Seeing ballots like this make it clear how foolish the Hall of Fame is at this point.That McCaffery guy’s ballot is nonsensical.
Jeff freaking Kent over Bonds? Understand its about the 'roids... But come on.Yup. I have no beef with Ryan Howard, he had a nice career, but it’s ludicrous to vote him in but not David Ortiz. And that’s just one ridiculous example. Seeing ballots like this make it clear how foolish the Hall of Fame is at this point.
It just shows the need for a large voting pool. That's one of 500 ballots and the voters have done a good job overall, even with really dumb ones like that. It's the special committees that have made the most nonsense picks, and since their voting pool is 12 or 16 people, it makes sense that it happens more often there.Yup. I have no beef with Ryan Howard, he had a nice career, but it’s ludicrous to vote him in but not David Ortiz. And that’s just one ridiculous example. Seeing ballots like this make it clear how foolish the Hall of Fame is at this point.
A single ballot like this is really only an indictment of the whole process if we get caught up in vote percentages. One guy or even ten guys out of ~400 putting in a biased and nonsensical ballot isn't a big deal unless we're concerned with a guy getting 90% vs 85% vs 75.1% of the votes.Yup. I have no beef with Ryan Howard, he had a nice career, but it’s ludicrous to vote him in but not David Ortiz. And that’s just one ridiculous example. Seeing ballots like this make it clear how foolish the Hall of Fame is at this point.
Plus Omar fucking Vizquel
All you need to know is that he called Omar Vizquel the greatest defensive player of his generation (not a fire hot take, I admit), but says nothing of Andruw Jones' D.Jimmy Rollins but not Rolen? It’s just stupid. I won’t read his explanation, it’s not worth the click.
Haven't read the article either, but my guess is Rolen rejected the Phillies resulting in his trade to the Cardinals (where he won a ring) while Rollins and Howard won rings in Philadelphia. Homer vote all the way down the line.Jimmy Rollins but not Rolen? It’s just stupid. I won’t read his explanation, it’s not worth the click.
A few people made this point, so I will walk back my righteous outrage a bit The fact that there are so many ballots truly does make a big difference, and make it easier to overlook foolishness like this ballot.It just shows the need for a large voting pool. That's one of 500 ballots and the voters have done a good job overall, even with really dumb ones like that. It's the special committees that have made the most nonsense picks, and since their voting pool is 12 or 16 people, it makes sense that it happens more often there.
Strikes me as another "look at me" ballot rather than a serious one. Voting for Clemens, Bonds, and ARod is obviously a PEDs-don't-matter vote, yet he left Manny off? No real qualms with Helton or Rolen, but if they're in, so also should Ortiz, Kent, and Sheffield.