2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

[Euclis20]

If he gets the job, Doc will have coached the following:

-McGrady
-Pierce
-Garnett
-Allen
-Shaq
-Griffin
-CP3
-Kawhi
-George
-Embiid
-Harden
-Giannis
-Lillard

No Lebron/Durant/Wade/Kobe/Curry, but other than that it's basically a full all-star team over the last 20 years.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Can't cite a source, but word is that Griffin was doing a bad job behind the scenes in terms of game prep and the Giannis-Dame window is too short for Mil to wait around for Griffin to improve.

If this is true, good on Milwaukee to make the move earlier rather than later. Especially so if Giannis was frustrated with the situation.

Doc may not be a huge upgrade, but I think he's a safe choice at this point in the season.

 

[the moops]

Doc was shadow coaching the Bucks for a month, per Shams.

What does shadow coaching entail?

 

[Just a bit outside]

What does shadow coaching entail?

Yelling at the tv for Joe to call a timeout?

 

[benhogan]

Yelling at the tv for Joe to call a timeout?

LOL....well played

 

[Ale Xander]

Not a huge fan of Doc, but Griffin to Doc is a huge upgrade.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1749907775390621855

 

[Ale Xander]

Too many Celtics on that list

(and obviously KP will be o. Latvia too if they qualified)

But Duncan Robinson, wtf.

 

[benhogan]

What does shadow coaching entail?

Coach Ken Reeves was an early pioneer in the shadow genre

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

The job he did in Orlando was kinda absurd how good it was. Not many Head Coaches win multiple championships and if not for Perkins knee then KG’s knee he likely has 3.

Yeah both things are true, he has a boosted reputation due to being a media darling, and also a very good head coach. But Doc is at his best when there is a good staff of assistants around him, and I'm not sure if that can be done on the fly mid-season.

As far as the firing, it must be an issue with the process or behind the scenes issues. Because the results are about where I thought, the Bucks have a great offense but are vulnerable on the defensive end. They've scored around 8 more ppg than last season, but have given up 7 more ppg, par for the course swapping out Jrue for Dame. Basically on the same pace as last season, but the big splash acquisition probably led to unrealistic expectations.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

The problem with the Bucks defense is that it's old, slow and can't create turnovers. Its that simple, and neither Griffin nor Doc can change that.

Lopez is 35. Lillard is 33. Middleton is 32. Giannis is 29. Beasley is 27. Crowder is 33. Portis is 28 and Connaughton is 31.

None of those guys have the lateral quickness anymore to stay with quick guards. So Lopez is being forced to help away from the rim, as is Giannis. Interestingly, they aren't bad defending the 3 point line, but are getting worked inside.

They create the least amount of turnovers in the NBA, and give up the most FGA's per game in the NBA. They're giving up an average of like 5 shots per game to their opponent from the floor, and even if they do create a rare turnover, they don't have the horses to get out in transition. They replaced Jrue with Dame, and Middleton is a shell of what he was defensively. This isn't going to get better as the season goes along.

 

[DavidTai]

So glad they didn't hire Nurse. I thought that was a layup before the Griffin hire.

Maybe not so much - according to the attached reddit link, which quotes from a (pay) substack by Marc Stein, Giannis apparently really didn't want to play for Nurse, which is why he championed Griffin:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/19dzzup/stein_how_did_adrian_griffin_gain_that_sort_of/

 

[The Raccoon]

Whoever will take over for the Bucks has their work cut out for them.
After having one of the easiest schedules so far, the 16 games in Feb+March only have 4 "bad" opponents (2xHornets, Grizz, Blazers).
They will now start with two games against the Cavs on a hot streak, and those 16 games also include 2x Denver , 2x Wolves, 76ers, Heat, Suns, Mavs, Pelicans...

Edit:
If I name 15 out of their next 16 games I should just complete the list: The last opponent are the Jazz.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

All I know is that the next time ESPN gets the Bucks, Doris' hagiography of the Milwaukee coaches and staff may be hard to top.

"Doc coached so we could watch" "Giannis and Dame are even better people than players" won't be enough to describe the adversity they have overcome separately as well as together. Maybe she will demand a sacrifice at halftime.

Red Panda beware!

 

[snowmanny]

I don’t see how bad he could have been. He figured out how to beat the Celtics.

 

[the moops]

But Duncan Robinson, wtf.

He serves a very good purpose on a team, even an Olympic team. I would prefer him over several other guys on that list (Hart, Portis, Cam Johnson, Kessler to name a few)

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Did you mean defense? I didn't think their offense was the problem. They are putting up 124.6 PPG which is 2nd in the league.

Seems like Griffin must have gotten a vote of no confidence from Giannis and Lillard or he did something egregiously wrong that caused ownership to step in.

No, offense - it’s been *good* but lots of observers (zach lowe is the big one) have been wondering why they’re not running more PnR and talking about how the offense should be much better. But, yeah, much better than #2 in the league?

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Yeah.. LeBron is not a particularly great benchmark as a GM

It’s the one area where I think everyone would agree he’s just a good as MJ.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I don't think Austin Rivers get along with his dad. At least, Austin didn't seem to enjoy any time with Doc.

Jeremiah, then? Or his Son in Law?

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I don't think Griffin was a good hire or a good coach. And given the championship window, if they came to agree with the latter it's better to simply cut bait.

One has to assume the stars signed off on this; also not hard for me to beleive they were the ones who raised it with management.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

No, offense - it’s been *good* but lots of observers (zach lowe is the big one) have been wondering why they’re not running more PnR and talking about how the offense should be much better. But, yeah, much better than #2 in the league?

I think the Bucks offensive numbers are really skewed by pace and lack of any semblance of perimeter defense they offer. Obv any team w Lillard and Giannis is going to be good offensively but their is so much more going on that isn’t being said.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Hmm...

From the Athletic write up:

League sources say Doc Rivers, who is an ESPN analyst after getting fired by the Philadelphia 76ers last May, began to serve as an informal consultant to Griffin at the behest of the Bucks. One month later, multiple sources briefed on the matter now indicate that Rivers is the serious leader for the now-vacant position and the preferred choice of key stakeholders.

 

[the moops]

Doc fucking stabbed Griffin in the back, didn't he....

 

[slamminsammya]

lol that's an amazing tidbit

 

[ifmanis5]

It's happening.
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1749953604931535329

The Bucks have reached out to Doc Rivers and are engaging in conversations on the franchise’s coaching job, sources tell ESPN.

 

[benhogan]

Stotts quitting early was telling

UNDER
Bucks 54.5 - it's going to take time to come together. Stotts exiting on a Rookie HC pushed me to look at the Bucks a little more closely. Old Man risk here with Middleton's knee. Dame. Lopezes. Crowder. Giannis entering season 10, so they should start handling him with more care. Extremely Veteran Group (Portis, Connaughton, Cam Payne are all entering their 8th season) won't give a damn about the regular season.
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/win-totals/

Their schedule turns harder, expect them to struggle the next 39

Moops had the OVER and is looking good at the moment

You all are way underselling how damn good Dame is. Grayson and Ingles are as bad if not worse defenders than Dame and while they shot well from three they don’t warp defenses. Teams are fairly content to give up a semi contested three from those dudes. Not so much with Dame. MIL offense is going to be sick. They only need to be middle pack defensively to be a really fucking good team.

 

[the moops]

Stotts quitting early was telling

Their schedule turns harder, expect them to struggle the next 39

Moops had the OVER and is looking good at the moment

Hey - my one time a year being correct bingo showed up!!!

 

[InstaFace]

I'm glad to see Terry not get on the knicks, as rumors were starting to percolate in that direction. It feels like the Knicks should really be targeting Brogdon, who you would think would cost less than Rozier. Fournier and a pick, might be able to hold onto Grimes.

...wait, who's your basketball team?

 

[Murderer's Crow]

...wait, who's your basketball team?

NYK. I didn't want them going after Rozier but honestly, maybe I'm wrong considering the cost here. I just think their only goal right now should be improving the bench behind Brunson and waiting until the offseason for a splash. Not sure Murray is a good fit either.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Stotts quitting early was telling

good call—it turns out that was the canary in the coal mine here

 

[lexrageorge]

They don’t even need to add anyone to be a factor here. They are loaded enough to handle Roziers off nights but he’s fully capable of carrying his team to a win on nights he has it going. He’s really good but stuck in a bad situation and no reason to be motivated in Charlotte.

My guess is that he'll hit 3's at 48% in the playoff series against Boston, and for some reason the Celtics will struggle to force him to play defense.

 

[Jake Peavy's Demons]

Podcasting is a job, though player podcasts largely suck except for Jeff Teague's.

Sidetrack, but I loved Baron Davis' until he suddenly stopped doing them.

 

[ifmanis5]

TNT says Doc accepts the Bucks job.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

TNT says Doc accepts the Bucks job.

This was 100% already agreed upon prior to the firing. There isn’t a logical way that it wasn’t.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Chauncey Billups and Scott Brooks get booted at the end of PDX @ OKC because neither the coaches nor Malcolm Brogdon could manage to call a timeout when getting pressed while up by one with ~15+ seconds left - Billups AND Brooks came on to the floor to protest. SGA hits the tech then Jalen Williams calmly goes down the floor hits a midrange shot and OKC steals victory from defeat.

 

[radsoxfan]

This was 100% already agreed upon prior to the firing. There isn’t a logical way that it wasn’t.

For sure, 10000000% a done deal before the firing.

They wouldn't risk some midseason search (with of course fewer candidates) if the goal is to win now.

Doc was "consulting", got Giannis/Dame to back him over Griffin, and the rest of the dominoes fell quickly.

A snake move for sure, will be interesting to see how it plays out. While not a big Doc fan, he's almost certainly an upgrade on year 1 Griffin.

 

[Euclis20]

Eh, net loss for Boston. I liked Doc as an analyst and on podcasts, and whatever his weaknesses as a coach, I think it's easy to say he's an improvement over Griffin. Shame.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Eh, net loss for Boston. I liked Doc as an analyst and on podcasts, and whatever his weaknesses as a coach, I think it's easy to say he's an improvement over Griffin. Shame.

Its the Bucks so you are right

But it is an in-season coaching change which can create distractions etc. Furthermore, while I don't put that much stock in W/L records Rivers is just above .500 (111-104) in the playoffs and he has looked overmatched in terms of adjusting in some of his recent postseason series.

There's no question why Doc Riley thinks this is another great bite at the apple and worth trading in his headset. He gets another shot with Giannis and Dame. I do wonder how his advisory role came to be.

 

[chilidawg]

Clippers just scoring at will on the hapless Lakers.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Clippers just scoring at will on the hapless Lakers.

Its so enjoyable.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Clippers just scoring at will on the hapless Lakers.

The Lakers defense without LeBron is nonexistent.

 

[ifmanis5]

LOL
View: https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1749998339981275198

 

[Euclis20]

The Lakers defense without LeBron is nonexistent.

Considering Lebron's regular season effort on defense over the last 3-4 years, that's really saying something.

Anthony Davis had a really nice flop at the very end of the half in an effort to get a call or something, not sure. Remember those 2 weeks when those were called? I don't.

 

[benhogan]

good call—it turns out that was the canary in the coal mine here

feels like there is more to the story here

I took Bucks under 54.5 which Doc probably can't even screw up at this point

The Lakers defense without LeBron is nonexistent.

FTFY

Jason Timpf, Laker SuperFan, claims he's been coasting since raising their IST Banner

 

[DavidTai]

TNT says Doc accepts the Bucks job.

Isn't this based on a TNT tweet of a fake CNN Sports report, or did this actually get confirmed?

 

[Euclis20]

I know he's not much of a passer (never had more than 10 assists in a game and has averaged 4+ assists per game just twice), but it's still kind of crazy that this is just Kawhi's 2nd triple double.

 

[ElUno20]

They led the post game show with it.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

FTFY

Jason Timpf, Laker SuperFan, claims he's been coasting since raising their IST Banner

He’s been playing hurt for about a month now. Maybe Timpf isn’t recognizing this or doesn’t care but he’s slowed down a bit since the start of the season due to his ankle problem.

 

[Euclis20]

He’s been playing hurt for about a month now. Maybe Timpf isn’t recognizing this or doesn’t care but he’s slowed down a bit since the start of the season due to his ankle problem.

It's really hard to tell with Lebron. He played all last postseason with a pretty serious foot injury, and was incredible. He's still been really effective offensively since the IST final, if slightly less efficient (his 3p% for the year is still the highest it's been since 2013 and a whopping 70 points higher than last year). He's been coasting on and off on defense during the regular season since going back to Cleveland, and given his age he's not that great even when he "turns it on."

 

[bosockboy]

For sure, 10000000% a done deal before the firing.

They wouldn't risk some midseason search (with of course fewer candidates) if the goal is to win now.

Doc was "consulting", got Giannis/Dame to back him over Griffin, and the rest of the dominoes fell quickly.

A snake move for sure, will be interesting to see how it plays out. While not a big Doc fan, he's almost certainly an upgrade on year 1 Griffin.

Do national TV analysts normally “consult” for teams? Also seems weird.