2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

It also depends WHERE on the perimeter - Joe likes crashing from the corners, since they’re behind the play anyway as it goes the other direction. But he also talks about having players on the perimeter do SOMETHING - either crash or sprint back on D. He says the worst thing you can do is stand and wait on the outcome of the play. Better to crash and have a chance at a rebound than just have your man sprint past you like a potted plant, and maybe your man follows you toward the basket out of instinct and so they’re not getting out on the break either.

“Don’t try for offensive rebounds” seems very 2015 at this point.

 

[lexrageorge]

Rozier took a 3 that would've given them the lead, down 98-96, but missed. The Heat went cold from that point forward. Jimmy Butler was not exactly "him" all night either, 4 for 10 for 15 points (and 4 turnovers) in 35 minutes.

He's saving his made 3's for tonight.

 

[AB in DC]

Wes Unseld is fired kicked upstairs by the Wizards.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/wes-unseld-jr-out-as-wizards-coach-moves-into-front-office-role-with-team-after-7-36-start/

He can commisserate with Pete Carroll I guess.

 

[Auger34]

Butler from 2019-last season had an EPM of over 5, this year it’s 2.8. His LEBRON in that same time period was about 5, this season? It’s 2. Below, I’ll post his BPM from highest to lowest. He could absolutely turn it around, like I said, I’m not writing him off, but get out of here with the condescending shit. To this point in the season, he’s playing worse than he has in at least four seasons. Because of his age, it’s fair to wonder what level he will be going forward.

View attachment 77123

Well....I think that settles that.

 

[Auger34]

Not all teams with title aspirations are created equally. This years Bucs were +600 to win, 3rd best odds.

2015 Warriors: +2800, 8th
2016 Cavs: +280, 1st
2019 Raptors: +1850, 5th
2022 Celtics: +4000, 13th

The Cavs stand out as the one exception here, but at that point Lebron was the best player on the planet and seen as essentially a player coach. The Raptors weren't far off, but it's really important to remember that Nurse was promoted on June 14 2018, more than a month before the Raptors traded for Kawhi (I don't know what their title odds were before that move, but guaranteed they were lower). The Bucks took a major chance here, and they blew it.

Thank you for the numbers, this is what I was getting at with my original post.

As a side note, Giannis doesn't come out looking too great here, especially with his postgame comments last night. I admit that I am biased since I think the media blows way too much smoke up his ass but still.....he gets the guy hired, bitches about him a bunch and then when he actually gets fired tries to act like he had absolutely nothing to do with it

 

[FireChief]

So what happens if the Bucks and Sixers meet in the second round? Does the NBA come up with a tie-breaker so someone can advance?

 

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

As a side note, Giannis doesn't come out looking too great here, especially with his postgame comments last night. I admit that I am biased since I think the media blows way too much smoke up his ass but still.....he gets the guy hired, bitches about him a bunch and then when he actually gets fired tries to act like he had absolutely nothing to do with it

It's the exact same playbook Giannis ran when they acquired Dame. "It wasn't my decision to trade Jrue. I love him. He's my brother..."

No, you just held the organization hostage by heavily intimating that no extension would be had if the roster remained the same. It's not unique to Giannis, but many guys would have their hypocrisy more heavily pointed out by the media.

He is one of those guys who the media gives carte blanche to. I like him on the whole (he's insanely talented and largely unproblematic), but this "who, me?" act is getting played out. Some accountability would be refreshing.

 

[lars10]

It's the exact same playbook Giannis ran when they acquired Dame. "It wasn't my decision to trade Jrue. I love him. He's my brother..."

No, you just held the organization hostage by heavily intimating that no extension would be had if the roster remained the same. It's not unique to Giannis, but many guys would have their hypocrisy more heavily pointed out by the media.

He is one of those guys who the media gives carte blanche to. I like him on the whole (he's insanely talented and largely unproblematic), but this "who, me?" act is getting played out. Some accountability would be refreshing.

He had the same act trying to get the ball in Indy.. in his mind he’s always innocent.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1750537265254916295

 

[SteveF]

Budenholzer is getting $8 million this year and next. Griffin is getting $4 million for at least this year and next (described only as a multiyear deal, my guess was it was 2 + team option). And it looks like Doc is getting ~$11 million prorated this year, and then next. I can't imagine the owners are all that thrilled with Horst.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Anthony Slater has a write up on the Thunder defense in today's Athletic. This little blurb was kind of eye opening:

It starts with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. He has the sixth-highest usage rate in the NBA, putting up MVP-level numbers — 31.1 points per game on 54.5 percent shooting — while absorbing 31.2 percent of the Thunder’s offensive possessions when on the floor.

But, unlike some heliocentric star scorers, Gilgeous-Alexander isn’t a net negative whose energy must be preserved or his flaws hidden on defense. He is abnormally destructive. He leads the league with 96 steals. Nobody else has more than 68! Add his 32 blocks (near the top of the list among guards) and Gilgeous-Alexander is fifth in the combination (stocks) category, behind only Victor Wembanyama, Anthony Davis, Brook Lopez and Chet Holmgren (he’ll come up later).

The other four are big men. None of them have near Gilgeous-Alexander’s offensive load.

I know that Embiid and Jokic are currently the favorites for MVP but if the Thunder keep this up, I feel like SGA may pass them in the hearts and minds of media types. It may just be SGA's turn but we still have a lot of hoops left to play.

 

[Everetts Dinosaurs]

Anthony Slater has a write up on the Thunder defense in today's Athletic. This little blurb was kind of eye opening:



I know that Embiid and Jokic are currently the favorites for MVP but if the Thunder keep this up, I feel like SGA may pass them in the hearts and minds of media types. It may just be SGA's turn but we still have a lot of hoops left to play.

That's kind of insane. And I know we like to talk about "stocks", but steals are more valuable than blocks, and he's almost 50% above the next closest player? Crazy.

 

[Kliq]

Anthony Slater has a write up on the Thunder defense in today's Athletic. This little blurb was kind of eye opening:



I know that Embiid and Jokic are currently the favorites for MVP but if the Thunder keep this up, I feel like SGA may pass them in the hearts and minds of media types. It may just be SGA's turn but we still have a lot of hoops left to play.

SGA is amazing, but I don't buy him as a real MVP candidate and find it weird that he has been pegged as #3 when Giannis is scoring just as much, on greater efficiency and is more impactful on defense.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

SGA is amazing, but I don't buy him as a real MVP candidate and find it weird that he has been pegged as #3 when Giannis is scoring just as much, on greater efficiency and is more impactful on defense.

I'm not an awards fan so I don't follow this stuff as closely as others here. That said, I am looking at this Thunder team which does not carry itself like a young-ish squad with what SGA is doing night-in and out and considering the at the last three MVPs were Giannis, Jokic and Embiid. I am simply wondering if he gets the benefit of being the "new" guy if OKC continues to play like this, especially if they manage to finish atop the West.

As for the stats, I get your point about Giannis but I feel like the award weighs a lot of things beyond just production like team record, supporting cast and other intangibles (like have they won before) etc. Maybe that's wrong and it'll be chalk with Embiid (assuming he clears the games hurdle), Joker and SGA or Giannis.

 

[the moops]

The Pistons and Bulls have discussed a trade centered around Zach LaVine, per @JLEdwardsIII
The Bulls would like a return of Bojan Bogdanović and one of Cade Cunningham/Ausar Thompson/Jaden Ivey/Jalen Duren

lololol

 

[PedroKsBambino]

The Pistons and Bulls have discussed a trade centered around Zach LaVine, per @JLEdwardsIII
The Bulls would like a return of Bojan Bogdanović and one of Cade Cunningham/Ausar Thompson/Jaden Ivey/Jalen Duren

lololol

Can't blame them for asking? I wonder if LaVine ends up being someone who they literally give away for nothing in the end and take bad some bad salary because they realize no one else wants him either.

In that scenario, he'll be a Laker.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

I'm not an awards fan so I don't follow this stuff as closely as others here. That said, I am looking at this Thunder team which does not carry itself like a young-ish squad with what SGA is doing night-in and out and considering the at the last three MVPs were Giannis, Jokic and Embiid. I am simply wondering if he gets the benefit of being the "new" guy if OKC continues to play like this, especially if they manage to finish atop the West.

As for the stats, I get your point about Giannis but I feel like the award weighs a lot of things beyond just production like team record, supporting cast and other intangibles (like have they won before) etc. Maybe that's wrong and it'll be chalk with Embiid (assuming he clears the games hurdle), Joker and SGA or Giannis.

I agree that many in the media love the "narrative" and sometimes promote an up-and-comer to MVP as a change of pace (see Derrick Rose 2011, in between LeBron's back-to-backs). However I'm thinking in this case, it is Embiid's to lose if he makes 65 games and the Sixers don't collapse. It would be symmetry with Giannis and Jokic going B2B in the years before. The craziest stat so far is Embiid is 1.7 apg over his career high from last year, while performing at or better than last year's MVP season in virtually every category.

But if I was drafting a team from scratch today, SGA's combination of age and performance may make him my first pick.

 

[Euclis20]

SGA is amazing, but I don't buy him as a real MVP candidate and find it weird that he has been pegged as #3 when Giannis is scoring just as much, on greater efficiency and is more impactful on defense.

More impactful on defense sure, but I'm not buying the greater efficiency on offense. SGA averages 31.1 points and 6.4 assists with a TS% of .647 and just 2.1 turnovers. Giannis averages 31.3 points and 6.2 assists with a TS% of .646 and 3.6 turnovers. Basically identical points, assists and TS%, but Giannis turns the ball over at a far higher rate, plus he gets to play with another A+ offensive weapon in Lillard that opens things up for him. Not that his teammates are trash, but no one on OKC comes close to Lillard's impact on offense.

As noted above, I don't think the difference between Giannis and SGA matters in the grand scheme of things. It will come down to Embiid and Jokic, with the former probably winning again if he can get to 65 games. Giannis and SGA will be 3rd and 4th in some order, and Tatum will probably be 5th (the top 5 will be the same as last year, just. in a slightly different order)

 

[Everetts Dinosaurs]

But if I was drafting a team from scratch today, SGA's combination of age and performance may make him my first pick.

I love SGA, but that’s wild. I don’t even think he’s on the short list of guys you’d consider first overall

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

I love SGA, but that’s wild. I don’t even think he’s on the short list of guys you’d consider first overall

Who's on your short list? You can certainly argue against SGA #1, but to not be on a short list seems equally wild to me. It may be we just have different weighting of age, bigs vs wings, etc.

 

[benhogan]

JJ asks him if he gets offended by being called "Baby Jokic" and he says "No, not for now... but when I get older I don't want to be called a BABY"

Sometimes you forget these guys are kids and complete foreigners to the customs/language

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgIMcC9Etgw

 

[Don Buddin's GS]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274402/Deandre-Ayton-Says-He-Has-Nothing-To-Prove

Good grief, maximum headache.

I write a blog for a University of Dayton basketball site, but I live in Detroit. When UD grad Toumani Camara was in town with the Blazers to beat up on the Pistons, I secured a press pass in order to interview Camara. After the game, I was hanging around outside the Portland locker room and a shirtless Ayton comes out to hit the weight room across the hall. He has no fucking idea who I am, but as he walks by he gives me a fist bump and says "Appreciate you, bro."

On a side note, Deandre Ayton is absolutely fucking ripped.

 

[ifmanis5]

Gonna be a sick 2 weeks until he gets bored again.
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1750649598799171628

After practicing with the Brooklyn Nets’ G League team this weekend, there’s optimism that Ben Simmons could return as soon as Monday vs. the Utah Jazz, sources tell ESPN. Simmons has been out with a lower back nerve impingement since November 6.

 

[tims4wins]

Gonna be a sick 2 weeks until he gets bored again.
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1750649598799171628

After practicing with the Brooklyn Nets’ G League team this weekend, there’s optimism that Ben Simmons could return as soon as Monday vs. the Utah Jazz, sources tell ESPN. Simmons has been out with a lower back nerve impingement since November 6.

Honestly, he's the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/extrastatmuse/status/1750636012668100925

 

[Tony C]

The schematic changes always looked dumb given the roster, and in retrospect (as benhogan and KOC pointed out) the Stotts interaction in pre-season also was weird. Seems like the likely conclusion is that Griffin was way over his head here. So whether or not someone else can fix it given the roster, still makes sense to move on. Whatever else is true of Doc, you know he won't be in over his head leading an NBA team

Yeah, I was rooting for Griff -- young Black coach who seems like a good guy so you want to see him given a fair shot. But the Stotts incident was a red flag, indicating insecurity. The defensive shift was a 2nd red flag - hate D'Antoni coaches who must impose their system rather than the system that fits their players (and has been working). I credit him for pulling back on that, but he only did so partially that made it almost more incoherent.

You have a contender I think it was smart albeit desperate to make the move.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1750662918981456253?

 

[benhogan]

I write a blog for a University of Dayton basketball site, but I live in Detroit. When UD grad Toumani Camara was in town with the Blazers to beat up on the Pistons, I secured a press pass in order to interview Camara. After the game, I was hanging around outside the Portland locker room and a shirtless Ayton comes out to hit the weight room across the hall. He has no fucking idea who I am, but as he walks by he gives me a fist bump and says "Appreciate you, bro."

On a side note, Deandre Ayton is absolutely fucking ripped.

Thats cool. Do you get a free pass to the game when the Pacers play the Pistons also?

Thanks for sharing, appreciate you bro

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

Figured this could interest people here…

The NBA and Nike are teaming up. Buy an NBA 31 apparel on the Nike App (have to download and be a member). Cheapest thing is a $35 t-shirt. Then sign up for an NBA account, link them and on (or around) February 7th, they gift you 12-months of NBA League Pass.

 

[Don Buddin's GS]

Thats cool. Do you get a free pass to the game when the Pacers play the Pistons also?

Thanks for sharing, appreciate you bro

I was in touch with the Pacers Media Relations guy before the Indy game in Detroit, but as we all know, they beat the Celtics and made the IST Finals. He apologized but didn't have time to pull it together with Obi Toppin. They come back to Motown in April.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Knicks are a very scary team right now.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Knicks are a very scary team right now.

We used the whole "poke your opponent in the eye" technique.

But seriously, They are insane right now.

 

[benhogan]

KAT 62pts! / Wolves home loss to the Hornets

Good Recap

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRlbMJy8UE4

 

[slamminsammya]

I was trying to think of players who had collapsed as hard as Jordan Poole has the past couple seasons and this was the best I could come up with:



Monta didn't really drop off that hard, I just wanted to show how sharply Poole has sucked. It does give me a sick joy watching him flounder in Washington. Well, not watching I don't want those games but you know, keeping tabs on.

 

[DavidTai]

I was trying to think of players who had collapsed as hard as Jordan Poole has the past couple seasons and this was the best I could come up with:

Isaiah Thomas, post-hip injury? Jared Sullinger?

 

[azsoxpatsfan]

Figured this could interest people here…

The NBA and Nike are teaming up. Buy an NBA 31 apparel on the Nike App (have to download and be a member). Cheapest thing is a $35 t-shirt. Then sign up for an NBA account, link them and on (or around) February 7th, they gift you 12-months of NBA League Pass.

Thank you for this. I’ve only been unwilling to pay the extra $100 for league pass on YouTube tv.

 

[Swedgin]

Isaiah Thomas, post-hip injury? Jared Sullinger?

Feel like for a true apples to apples comb, you want to exclude clear external sources of decline, like age and injury. Or another way to think of it, that one season was like Brady Anderson in 1996, an aberration (for whatever reason), that would not be repeated. So the player is really just returning to his actual level after one extended heater.

 

[Euclis20]

Hot take: Lebron this year has more in common with Trae Young (very good numbers with very little defense on a 10th place team) than he does with someone like Kawhi, who absolutely should be starting in the all-star game. I get that it's for the fans and I'm pretty bearish on the Clippers in general (I just don't see how them staying healthy for another 5 months), but Kawhi has been an absolute killing machine this year, and healthy, and the Clippers have been one of the best teams in the league over the last two months.

 

[DavidTai]

Feel like for a true apples to apples comb, you want to exclude clear external sources of decline, like age and injury. Or another way to think of it, that one season was like Brady Anderson in 1996, an aberration (for whatever reason), that would not be repeated. So the player is really just returning to his actual level after one extended heater.

Oh., good point.

Like Jeremy Lin and the Linsanity period?

 

[Swedgin]

Oh., good point.

Like Jeremy Lin and the Linsanity period?

Or Aaron Brooks in Houston, who for one season scored nearly 20 a game on 39% from 3, then promptly went back to scoring 11 per.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1750662918981456253?

The insanity this will inspire cannot be overstated. Pick swaps for days!!!!!

 

[chilidawg]

I was trying to think of players who had collapsed as hard as Jordan Poole has the past couple seasons and this was the best I could come up with:

View attachment 77206

Monta didn't really drop off that hard, I just wanted to show how sharply Poole has sucked. It does give me a sick joy watching him flounder in Washington. Well, not watching I don't want those games but you know, keeping tabs on.

It's almost as if context matters.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Warriors and Kings always put on a good show.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Warriors and Kings always put on a good show.

This game is excellent. Black Falcon having a career night against his old team while Curry is breaking ankles and dropping sick alley oops.

 

[Euclis20]

Warriors and Kings always put on a good show.

Yup. Neither team plays defense, and both have plenty of guys who can get hot at any time. Plus they hate each other.

 

[Euclis20]

We used the whole "poke your opponent in the eye" technique.

But seriously, They are insane right now.

By my count they are 11-2 with Anunoby (includes wins over legit contenders like Denver, Minnesota and Philly) with a point differential of +14.9. They are just burying teams, this was their 4th win by 25+ since the trade. I didn't think this move puts them in the 1st tier of contenders in the East, but at minimum it seems to have shot them up to the top of the 2nd tier (ahead of the Cavs, Pacers, Heat and Magic).

 

[lovegtm]

By my count they are 11-2 with Anunoby (includes wins over legit contenders like Denver, Minnesota and Philly) with a point differential of +14.9. They are just burying teams, this was their 4th win by 25+ since the trade. I didn't think this move puts them in the 1st tier of contenders in the East, but at minimum it seems to have shot them up to the top of the 2nd tier (ahead of the Cavs, Pacers, Heat and Magic).

Does it not put them with the top eastern contenders? I think they're absolutely as good as Milwaukee and Philly, in terms of both metrics and matchups. The Celtics are better for sure, but that would be a tough series.

This is a team with a +6 net rating that upgraded massively with OG. It sucks for them they don't have Robinson, but they're big enough at the wings to withstand it imo.

 

[lovegtm]

Wtf happened to Philly against Indiana? Blown out with Halliburton not playing?

 

[benhogan]

I was trying to think of players who had collapsed as hard as Jordan Poole has the past couple seasons and this was the best I could come up with:

View attachment 77206

Monta didn't really drop off that hard, I just wanted to show how sharply Poole has sucked. It does give me a sick joy watching him flounder in Washington. Well, not watching I don't want those games but you know, keeping tabs on.

You need to put a notation on the day Bob signed him to $140MM/4yrs

Paul got KG going...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3sdkYW65GE

 

[benhogan]

Wtf happened to Philly against Indiana? Blown out with Halliburton not playing?

Siakam went off.

Damn all these EC teams are getting better

-The Knicks grab Anunoby
-Pacers add Pascal
-Heat trade for Terry Rozier
-The 76ers have a bunch of assets to go get Dajounte Murray

and the BUCKS bring in DOC!!!