Because there’s always a chance you David Carr them if your team is truly terrible.
Hell, the Colts absolutely physically and mentally broke Andrew Luck even though he actually had success.
2023 Jets: Hello Darkness Retreat, My Old Friend
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Hell, the Colts absolutely physically and mentally broke Andrew Luck even though he actually had success.
Siemian couldn't beat out Jake Browning (zero prior NFL attempts) for the Bengals backup job and they elected to bring back Reid Sinnett (who has about 30 transactions in his career) over him last week as Burrow insurance. I guess it can't get worse than Zach and real NFL QBs aren't just sitting out there three weeks in, but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Agreed - this seems like a "he knows Hackett's system and is a FA" dart throw.
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I guess this is evidence of why they are so reluctant to cut bait with Zack.
I mean, it’s obvious that the Jets want a quality backup. It’s just that other teams do, too. Vinny Testaverde is not walking through that door.
Its so weird that a team in GFIN mode isn't remotely interested in trying to get lucky by bringing in a Wentz/Ryan/etc. They KNOW Wilson isn't the answer. They knew it last year when they benched him. They knew it this offseason when they went after Rodgers.
And In no world do I believe any of the coaches or front office think, "Siemian knows the system, maybe he can take us deep into the playoffs!"
I know this isn't an answer we'll ever get, but I wonder how much of the unwillingness to find a suitable replacement has to do with Rodgers. Like, is there a concern bringing in a veteran that may perform well affects his ego? Or, in the slimmest possibility he can return this season, having to decide between a cold/old Rodgers and the QB that got them to the playoffs would be a nightmare situation? Or, if the veteran does perform well, having to walk away from that player in the offseason to go with a breaking down Rodgers is the only path forward?
I just can't believe in any world that a team so clearly built to GFIN is just opting to entirely punt on the season. Because Wilson/Siemian is punting on the season, and the team isn't dumb enough to be unaware of that.
And In no world do I believe any of the coaches or front office think, "Siemian knows the system, maybe he can take us deep into the playoffs!"
I know this isn't an answer we'll ever get, but I wonder how much of the unwillingness to find a suitable replacement has to do with Rodgers. Like, is there a concern bringing in a veteran that may perform well affects his ego? Or, in the slimmest possibility he can return this season, having to decide between a cold/old Rodgers and the QB that got them to the playoffs would be a nightmare situation? Or, if the veteran does perform well, having to walk away from that player in the offseason to go with a breaking down Rodgers is the only path forward?
I just can't believe in any world that a team so clearly built to GFIN is just opting to entirely punt on the season. Because Wilson/Siemian is punting on the season, and the team isn't dumb enough to be unaware of that.
And it's that reason they won't be able to draft a QB in 2024, especially if they finish in the bottom 3 or 5, screwing them even further.
Of course Saleh is at risk of losing the team. I don't know who the Jets need to get but it has to be anyone but Zach. He is objectively terrible and it's not going to get better. Tripling down on him is so dumb. His numbers are atrocious. They are atrocious from clean pockets, they are atrocious out of structure, they are awful on platform, they are awful off platform. They are universally awful. This is an NFL franchise.
I really have no idea what the Jets are thinking.
Do they not have eyes or tape or cameras?
I really have no idea what the Jets are thinking.
Do they not have eyes or tape or cameras?
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I can't believe more people haven't come around to finally seeing this entire facade for what it really always was from the start. Which sure as heck was never a legitimately positioned or clear GFIN attempt at winning more then an offseason of headlines and the forever desperate need this team has to be media relevent.
The koolaid fountain dream of 'trying to win a superbowl" was always realistically going to be secondary goal and and an actual hail mary toss up at best. This team was not realistically good enough top to bottom (yet) to make a legitimate run. Still too many holes in games that don't get played out in madden. For all intents and purposes this season was over the moment Rodgers went down. Which then left Woody more or less checked out until it's time to turn the priority page to how the team is going to repackage/resell the Rodgers Show v2 next year. With a now accompanying need to include wholesale changes, since selling that same mountain of whitewashed "we are just a QB away!' bs logic isn't selling big in NY or in the media a second time. At least on a scale Woody is going to be after.
That literally leaves Joe D and Saleh *ONE* single option and one single path to save their jobs at the end of the year. They need to be right where everybody else was wrong, hit on Zach, and end up heralded as the smartest people in the room. Nothing short of that and actually within reality's reach saves their job and they both know that. Period. A best alternative case scenario here where you bring in a more capable QB like Wentz and who maybe squeezes you out a few more wins still leads down a reality road that sees them fired at the end of the year.
So that is where we are now, and that is why we aren't bringing in a better qb. This is simply a transition from one flavor of a hail mary to another. With a whole lot of people who spent the entire offseason buying into that line of thought bs that keeping Zach around to "learn behind Rodgers" was a GOOD thing, literally cheering about this very real possibility outcome remaining on the table, now suddenly outraged it's here
(the only real positive left to come out of this season is the fact that a bunch of the teams expected to be league worst are winning games. Which enters the very real liklihood the Jets end up with a high lottery pick. Or at least in reasonable range to have the resources to trade up if they want to take a flyer on a top guy. There is 6 reasonably winnable games left on the season in week 5/8/10/13/14/16. If we win no more then 3 tops we'll probably end up in really good shape for that)
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Man these Jets have done a number on you! I agree the Wentz's of the world just aren't going to do much. And it would actually be an interesting strategy for them to effectively punt on the season, get a high pick and give it another run next year. That may take years off of Saleh's life but could be their best actual path to a championship. Selfishly I'm hoping they overspend for someone like Cousins to further damn themselves.I can't believe more people haven't come around to finally seeing this entire facade for what it really always was from the start. Which sure as heck was never a legitimately positioned or clear GFIN attempt at winning more then an offseason of headlines and the forever desperate need this team has to be media relevent.
The koolaid fountain dream of 'trying to win a superbowl" was always realistically going to be secondary goal and and an actual hail mary toss up at best. This team was not realistically good enough top to bottom (yet) to make a legitimate run. Still too many holes in games that don't get played out in madden. For all intents and purposes this season was over the moment Rodgers went down. Which then left Woody more or less checked out until it's time to turn the priority page to how the team is going to repackage/resell the Rodgers Show v2 next year. With a now accompanying need to include wholesale changes, since selling that same mountain of whitewashed "we are just a QB away!' bs logic isn't selling big in NY or in the media a second time. At least on a scale Woody is going to be after.
That literally leaves Joe D and Saleh *ONE* single option and one single path to save their jobs at the end of the year. They need to be right where everybody else was wrong, hit on Zach, and end up heralded as the smartest people in the room. Nothing short of that and actually within reality's reach saves their job and they both know that. Period. A best alternative case scenario here where you bring in a more capable QB like Wentz and who maybe squeezes you out a few more wins still leads down a reality road that sees them fired at the end of the year.
So that is where we are now, and that is why we aren't bringing in a better qb. This is simply a transition from one flavor of a hail mary to another. With a whole lot of people who spent the entire offseason buying into that line of thought bs that keeping Zach around to "learn behind Rodgers" was a GOOD thing, literally cheering about this very real possibility outcome remaining on the table, now suddenly outraged it's here
(the only real positive left to come out of this season is the fact that a bunch of the teams expected to be league worst are winning games. Which enters the very real liklihood the Jets end up with a high lottery pick. Or at least in reasonable range to have the resources to trade up if they want to take a flyer on a top guy. There is 6 reasonably winnable games left on the season in week 5/8/10/13/14/16. If we win no more then 3 tops we'll probably end up in really good shape for that)
Cousins is basically the same koolaid fountain dream that the idea were were going to compete for a SB this year was. With the same amount of required whitewashing around it to make any projection sense of it. it's like never mind the lack of available pick assets to trade, the need to make the money work on top of Rodgers, the actual liklihood he gets traded, or the fact we've already been down that road when he turned down more money and years here to go play in freaking Minny. Who cares if his projectable #'s heading into FA would likely take a huge dip coming over here behind this o-line. Like the obsession with bringing in Aaron Rodgers this winter...."BIG NAME!" is all that matters or makes any sense to people.
And you are dang right they did a number on me lol. My stance i posted here pre-Rodgers officially landing here is still intact. This franchise was another good draft and successful offensive mind hire away from actually transitioning into being a well run team. Pulling the early plug this winter on the first legit and promising rebuild efforts this team has seen in decades, to go chase offseason headline BS, was biggest fan betrayal I've ever personally felt. The fact it got universally cheered by so many was just as utterly disqusting as well. The Dan Shaughnessy disciples and call in weei crowd got more sense then Jets fans this winter. Most of which deserve every bite of this crap pie imo.
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This rant sounds less crazy when you consider the pass protection graph that SMU posted in the Mac thread. It's early, but the Jets OLine has been horrid. It seems like this offense would have been bad even if Rodgers were healthy.
Here is an interesting question......
If you're Cousins do you waive your No Trade to go to the Jets?
Right now you're on an 0-3 Vikings team, but you're only 2 games back and no monster team is in front of you. The defense is bad, but you're throwing behind one of the best pass blocking lines in the league to a bunch of real weapons including arguably the best WR in the game, a top TE and a 1st round rookie.
So, as a 30+ QB looking for what might be your last payday (and being notorious as the guy who gamed the system to get the most guaranteed money of any QB for a good while), would you rather....
1. Stay on your not great team, put up big numbers, take few hits and hope you catch some pretty mediocre teams
2. Go to an team with a good defense, but still 2 games back of better teams, take a ton of hits, and have no chance at getting paid there because they have a huge QB cap hit next year already.
I think there is a real chance the Jets make an offer, MIN goes to him and he says "yeah I'm good here thanks"
Mind blown, and I agree. Especially with the smoke around the HC of the NYJ losing the room. Just why.
I was curious so I looked, and MIN people were saying the word is he won't approve any trade without an extension.
Here's another interesting question on the road to people finally coming around to rationalizing that chasing after a 40yo Rodgers this winter was in essence the real team punt here:
In the event the Jets were to secure a top lottery spot in next year's draft, at this point can we even reasonably expect whatever new FO guys they bring in this winter to draft a higher rated QB that's there instead of a piece better positioned to possibly help Rodgers "win" in 2024?
I don't believe that is a given at all. At least not with Woody at the helm, and not with Rodgers still in the building.
In the event the Jets were to secure a top lottery spot in next year's draft, at this point can we even reasonably expect whatever new FO guys they bring in this winter to draft a higher rated QB that's there instead of a piece better positioned to possibly help Rodgers "win" in 2024?
I don't believe that is a given at all. At least not with Woody at the helm, and not with Rodgers still in the building.
Going after Rodgers was really a no lose proposition for them. They got all the headlines, as you say, and it could (could!) have worked, in which case they'd be geniuses. If it did not work, then they could not be criticized for not going for it, which honestly is all most fanbases care about. The same analysis could also be applied to chasing after Cousins. Even if he says no, at least they tried...Honestly it would be good PR to leak that they were trying to get him.
I'm sorry to the Jets fans here, but it's kind of hilarious how similar this team is to Rex Ryan iteration:
- Much hyped defensive coach who doesn't really pay attention to the offense? Check
- Terrible highly drafted QB that they're stuck with? Check (Sanchez then, WIlson now)
- Former star RB now past his prime? Check (LDT/Cook)
- Incredible, all-world CB? Check (Revis/Sauce)
- Tons of investment on the defensive line? Check
- Free agent LB? Check (Scott/Mosley)
This is the funhouse mirror version of that team. Past is present.
- Much hyped defensive coach who doesn't really pay attention to the offense? Check
- Terrible highly drafted QB that they're stuck with? Check (Sanchez then, WIlson now)
- Former star RB now past his prime? Check (LDT/Cook)
- Incredible, all-world CB? Check (Revis/Sauce)
- Tons of investment on the defensive line? Check
- Free agent LB? Check (Scott/Mosley)
This is the funhouse mirror version of that team. Past is present.
Not that I disagree but couldn’t we also do this with the Patriots now?
- Much hyped defensive coach who doesn't really pay attention to the offense? Check
- Terrible highly drafted QB that they're stuck with? Check (Not terrible but Mac is Mac)
- Former star RB now past his prime? Check (Zeke)
- Incredible, all-world CB? Check (Gonzo)
- Tons of investment on the defensive line? Ok, maybe not “tons” …
- Free agent LB? Check (Judon)
Yes but it's not as funny because the Patriots haven't done this same dance in the last few decades.
Sanchez was miles better than Wilson, if they had Sanchez level QB play right now the Jets would still be in playoff contention even without Rodgers.
I'm sure Jets fans would gladly sign up for a repeat of the first 2 years of the Rex Ryan experience.
Seriously. I don't get why people are finding glee by dumping on the Jets. Pick a harder target.
And the Sanchez Jets made the Championship game two years in a row. The Jets haven't sniffed a playoff game since. It's not even close.
It's less about dumping on the Jets and more about how shockingly similar the makeup of the two teams are. There's a longer screed about how building a good defense is low-hanging fruit and a good offense is the hard part of team building, but I'll save it for another thread.
Didn’t they back into the playoffs one of those years, with a sub-.500 record and improbable confluence of help on final day of the season?
9-7, Colts not going for perfect season and I think Bengals kind of throwing a game so they could play us in wildcard round and then we fucked them up and went out to SD and fucked up Chargers, then Colts beat us
Next year we beat Colts, Pats, lost to Steelers
That is so Bengals. Carefully set the rake on the ground in the path of a rival, proceed to step on it themselves.
They did what almost every team would do who already clinched but had to play the next week, plus it was an absolutely freezing and windy night at the Meadowlands (last game ever there, too). The Pats were in the exact same position that day and Welker tore his ACL. The Jets were also just a better team - they had a dominant defense and running game while the Bengals squeaked by all year on a bunch of close and last-minute wins.
Honestly good offense is simple to build. Get a really good quarterback and a not bad offensive coordinator. The rest basically takes care of itself.
Building a good offense without a really good quarterback, or buldiing a good defense, are basically as hard as each other in my book.
But identifying who will be a really good QB or coordinator is difficult, whereas CBs drafted high typically hit, as do DTs,. You can sign good defensive players in Free Agency while QBs basically never become free agents. If you have high draft picks and cap room, you can basically create an above average defense overnight. The same can't be said of offense unless you hire Kyle Shanahan.
I said simple not easy. I'm also not convinced that there's any particular skill, as opposed to pure luck, in figuring out that Mahomes is the guy and Trubinsky isn't--lots of teams looked at Allen or Mahomes and passed on them. And i'd dispute the idea that you can create an above average defense overnight--when you look at good defenses, they've generally been built over years.
I'm also a bit of a Kyle Shanahan doubter. he's coached same bad offenses in san francisco and his offenses have been a lot better when he's had a loaded skill postion group.
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Prime Mark Sanchez isn't taking this Jets team to the playoffs. Not behind this O-line, not with half the run carries going to a cooked (pun intended) RB, and certainly not with Nathaniel Hackett (with nobody holding his hand) as the only offensive mind in the room.
Regardless how well of the job the media has done over the last year+ to gaslight Jets fans into believing our upper tier defense is somehow generational special and more "game changing" then it actually is, or the metrics would say it has been......it's not good enough to reliably carry a bottom tier offense in today's NFL either. Especially with it's almost non-existent and among league worst knacks since the start of last year for forcing turnovers. The surface level only evaluations that simply point to last year's record and early run of success as evidence of what should be expected/projected with a slight to moderate upgrade in QB play needs to die a misleading SSS data death already.
Sanchez is getting just as killed back there right now as zach is. The screams of him being the holding us back problem would also be just as loud now as they generally were then for a majority his run with the team lol
Regardless how well of the job the media has done over the last year+ to gaslight Jets fans into believing our upper tier defense is somehow generational special and more "game changing" then it actually is, or the metrics would say it has been......it's not good enough to reliably carry a bottom tier offense in today's NFL either. Especially with it's almost non-existent and among league worst knacks since the start of last year for forcing turnovers. The surface level only evaluations that simply point to last year's record and early run of success as evidence of what should be expected/projected with a slight to moderate upgrade in QB play needs to die a misleading SSS data death already.
Sanchez is getting just as killed back there right now as zach is. The screams of him being the holding us back problem would also be just as loud now as they generally were then for a majority his run with the team lol
I mean, Sanchez did hold that team back obviously. He's just at a work-aroundable level of bad. Zach Wilson isn't.
The Jets' offensive line was amazing, their running game was solid, and also at least the rookie year (but maybe his first two, I don't exactly recall) Sanchez had a flukish number of dropped interceptions in a very limited number of passing attempts. I think the game was sufficiently different then that amazing defense/great running game could get you to "pretty good" even with shit at QB.
Sanchez wasn't great and I think maybe if Wilson has the line Sanchez had, he could be similar. Wilson can't process things fast enough. A terrible line exacerbates that flaw.
I think that's what gives Mac a high floor. He has a good QB brain. Wilson does not and never will.
I think that's what gives Mac a high floor. He has a good QB brain. Wilson does not and never will.
If you assume the Jets need 9 wins to make the playoffs and that they aren't going to beat KC, Philly, Miami, or Buffalo at Buffalo, their path gets very narrow very fast. On the one hand, I don't think they can afford to risk losing the game at Denver in two weeks. On the other hand, bringing in a new QB who succeeds in Denver only to have him get killed by the Philly d-line the next week also seems like a bad idea.
KC - L
@DEN ?
PHI - L
BYE
@NYG ?
LAC -?
@LV -?
@BUF - L
MIA - L
ATL -?
HOU -?
@MIA - L
WAS - ?
@CLE - ?
@NE - ?
KC - L
@DEN ?
PHI - L
BYE
@NYG ?
LAC -?
@LV -?
@BUF - L
MIA - L
ATL -?
HOU -?
@MIA - L
WAS - ?
@CLE - ?
@NE - ?
- Chargers still have one of the better offenses in football even with the slow start. That alone makes them an absolute horrid matchup for these Jets. A Jets team who again is combining a league worst offense with a great grinding defense that can keep a *decent* offensive effort in a game, but who simply don't have a knack for forcing any game changing/saving turnovers. This is turn creates a very narrow godilocks zone of what we can rationally view as a beatable team. Outside Josh Allen essentially playing Santa Clause in week 1 an offense that can all be expected to drop 20+ on us isn't falling in that goldilocks zone. That's a hard L check there.
- Cleveland's defense is looking legit, and I think it's shaping up to be a good bet that Watson (outside taking the deserving heat for not looking like elite prize you'd expect at the acquisition cost) is going to settle back in as above average'ish top 8-14 type qb. Outside the hype train this winter that was always going to be good enough to elevate them into a legitimate playoff contender spot bet we never really were in reality if that was to happen. Obvious TBD factor baked in to how well the post-Chubb run game fairs going forward, but for now that is still a penned in "L" in my book.
- And NE should go without saying, and is what it is at this point. This isn't the 2004 Red Sox team that is ending the streak lol
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IIRC one of the “LOL, Rex” moments was in 2009 when he didn’t even realize they were still in playoff contention (and ultimately not only got in but went to the AFCCG).