Adrian Peterson News & Football related discussion

[TheoShmeo]

But then what would Pats fans be without their moral superiority?
 
(Only half joking.)

I'm thinking you are mostly not joking. I could be wrong.

Either way, I think the focus on the moral high ground is massively overstated. Speaking for myself, if the Pats shocked me and obtained Petersen -- just like they shocked me when they obtained Dillon -- I'd get over the loss of the moral high ground in less than one second. Not that I ever cared about that ground in the first place.

I want the Pats to continue to obtain hard working, football obsessed players who will buy into the team first culture that I believe the team has. Whether they are upstanding citizens off the field or have made serious mistakes in their past is not my concern. That is, unless they repeat those mistakes while on the Pats or you know, kill people when they are away from Patriot Place.

With all respect to Myra, Christian Peter and not drafting Randy Moss, I think that the team and most of its fans couldn't care less about the moral high ground.

References to the Patriot Way or anything along those lines has, I think, much more to do with dedication to winning, football as a whole and willingness to look past individual stats than morality.

All of that said, AP on the Pats is highly unlikely if past continues to be prologue.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo 48s48 seconds ago
Huge news: NFLPA's motion to vacate Adrian Peterson suspension granted
 

 


 

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 13s14 seconds ago
Judge Doty has overturned Adrian Peterson decision and Peterson now will be reinstated, per source.
 

 

 
 
 

 



 

 

[ifmanis5]

Another day, another Roger Goodell ruling overturned.

 

[dcmissle]

Here's the ruling -- https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/General/Peterson_2.26.15.pdf

A sixteen-pager that does not require a lot of legal muscle to get the gist of.

Bottom line is that notwithstanding the deferential standard of review applicable to arbitral awards, imposing new discipline for old acts is a no-no. The new policy did not cover AP.

So they've lost to Rice and AP. A lot of us told them they would. Will be interesting to see whether they waste money on an 8th circuit appeal or just make this go away.

Bob Kraft and the NEP on deck? I think not, but we shall see.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Here's the ruling -- https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/General/Peterson_2.26.15.pdf

A sixteen-pager that does not require a lot of legal muscle to get the gist of.

Bottom line is that notwithstanding the deferential standard of review applicable to arbitral awards, imposing new discipline for old acts is a no-no. The new policy did not cover AP.

So they've lost to Rice and AP. A lot of us told them they would. Will be interesting to see whether they waste money on an 8th circuit appeal or just make this go away.

Bob Kraft and the NEP on deck? I think not, but we shall see.

 
They didn't suspend AP or Rice thinking they were going to win any legal process. It was obvious to everyone involved form the get-go that they were going to lose.
 
they suspended them to save face and continue to kick the can hoping the public forgot about how much they enable these fuckfaces.
 
It worked. The Patriots are evil. Deflategate for the win.

 

[Super Nomario]

 
They didn't suspend AP or Rice thinking they were going to win any legal process. It was obvious to everyone involved form the get-go that they were going to lose.
 
they suspended them to save face and continue to kick the can hoping the public forgot about how much they enable these fuckfaces.

Agreed. I don't think Goodell really cares that he "lost" these appeals. He "won" because he wasn't the one to make the decision to go soft on these guys (well, after the initial Rice ruling).

 

[dcmissle]

Right, and it's my belief that Goodell won't go there with the Pats because Wells won't give him the ammo to.

Of course, as often noted, where do you go to get your reputation back.

This NFL practice, AP and RR, by the way is as cynical as it can be and purely PR motivated. As discipliner in chief, your first obligation is to get the discipline right under the rules.

 

[Reverend]

Right, and it's my belief that Goodell won't go there with the Pats because Wells won't give him the ammo to.

Of course, as often noted, where do you go to get your reputation back.

This NFL practice, AP and RR, by the way is as cynical as it can be and purely PR motivated. As discipliner in chief, your first obligation is to get the discipline right under the rules.

 
Yep--as you mentioned, it doesn't require a lot of legal understanding to grasp why these were overturned. It takes like less than a minute to explain to even someone looking to be outraged, "It's not to exonerate him, it's because the league violated their own policies which is a no-no or workers have basically no legal protection; it's a labor thing, not a conduct thing."
 
And as for it being cynical--well, obviously they must have known this, yeah? What's even more cynical is that it appears he doesn't get it right because that's really not what he's trying to do.

 

[Leather]

*Sigh*.
 
Vikings try to woo back Peterson.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Judy Battista ‏@judybattista  38s39 seconds ago
NFL announces that Adrian Peterson is reinstated effective tomorrow.
 

 

[Bosoxen]

That sound you heard was Jerry Jones getting his first non-Viagra-aided boner in 30 years.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

How would the Cowboys be able to fit him in under the cap?  I thought they only barely had room to re-sign Dez.

 

[Ed Hillel]

How would the Cowboys be able to fit him in under the cap?  I thought they only barely had room to re-sign Dez.

 
They converted a large chunk of Romo's salary to a bonus. So they could fit it this year, and then eat it later.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
They converted a large chunk of Romo's salary to a bonus. So they could fit it this year, and then eat it later.

The bolded part of your post should be the title of the Cowboys thread. 
 
"2015 Dallas Cowboys: Fit it in This Year, Eat it Later"

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Yes, that was well-crafted by Ed, surely intentionally.

 

[soxfan121]

I actually see zero reason for Minnesota to back down, and that's before we get to the elephant. 
 
Minnesota paid him, he's under contract, he did the franchise material harm last season, their best hope to be good in 2015 is for Peterson to play all day, their team is still set up for a bell cow back, they have a young QB who needs a player of his caliber, they'd incur a cap penalty to trade him, and they wouldn't get commensurate value in trade because he means so much to the Vikes. 

The elephant being that Peterson being suspended for not reporting to the Vikings is a new and interesting twist on the shaky-as-fuck disciplinary policy. The CBA provisions on failure to report are unambiguous and smells a bit like "by other means". So he may be reinstated. We'll see how long that lasts. There's no reason for Minnesota to give in, not in April.

 

[pappymojo]

I dont see how he did the team material harm last year. I would argue that the league did him material harm.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

I actually see zero reason for Minnesota to back down, and that's before we get to the elephant. 
 
 

 
Reasons for them to trade him in the next 12 days: 
 
- They save $15M in cash and $13M against the cap. Once they trade AP they will have the 2nd or third most cap room in the league. 
 
-Right now there are only 7 teams that can eat a $13M cap charge and pay their draft picks.After the draft teams are going to sign the rest of the veterans floating in the free agent market wind.  By the second week of May, only Oakland, Cleveland, Tampa, Tennessee and maybe Atlanta will have enough cap room to take on AP. That means AP will have to agree to re-negotiate to make a trade happen at that point, giving him leverage over where he goes, thus limiting the Viking trade market. 
 
-2015 draft picks should be more valuable to the Vikings than 2016 picks.
 
-If AP makes it clear that he doesn't want to play for the Vikes in 2015, that is the story of their summer. Not Teddy, not the rest of the young and exciting players on the team, not the new stadium that is a year away. It is a giant distraction that a young team like Minnesota does not need and Mike Zimmer undoubtedly does not want. 

 

[soxfan121]

Cap space is nice. What is there to spend it on right now?

 

[Gunfighter 09]

Cap space is nice. What is there to spend it on right now?

 
The next guy who knocks out his girlfriend / beats his kid / gets in a fight in a club in week two.
 
I'm only a little bit joking, the ability to eat a contract when noone (besides Jacksonville) can has some value.  
 
If he really has told the Vikings he will not play for them, trading him now is the best option of the three they have: 
 
1. Pay him enough additional money to forget he hates them
2. Dare him to sit out and then fine him when he does
3. Trade him, with now being better than later in the summer when they are only going to get conditional 2016 picks. 

 

[Leather]

AP is too old to help the Vikings when they are most likely to succeed: 1-4 years from now. He's more valuable as a trade asset in their current rebuild. At best, they are a wild card team this year, and that's a bit of a long shot.

For the Vikes, this season is a the biggest freebie I can think of in recent NFL history. They are not only in rebuild mode, the fans are looking past 2015 to the following year when the new stadium opens. There are no expectations for this season. In addition, Vikings fans more than anyone know that Green Bay is the team of the division right now. There is 0 public pressure to succeed now; only to make good decisions for the future. Add to that the fact that nobody in the twin cities likes AP anymore, and there you go.

They should do everything they can to maximize the possibility that the Vikes are set up for success from 2017-2020. That's their window. If it means giving up a 9-7 season this year, so be it.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Cap space is nice. What is there to spend it on right now?

Wouldn't it roll over to next year?

 

[dcmissle]

Solid opportunity to flip him to the Cowboys if they want to.

Jerry turns 73 in December. He has a good team. He has Romo, but who knows how long that lasts? When Romo is done, all bets are off. And Jerry is champing; Steven has kept him out of the toy section of the department store for a while.

The Cowboys will scream bloody murder about AP's contract, but it's a weak negotiating point coming from them. They can and will make the money work. Romo will beg them to.

I would not ask for a 1, because paying it would make Jerry look like a pompous ass and because the Vikings need several good players. I'd ask for several second and third round picks, spread out over 3 years. That would ease the pain and mute the headlines over the price. And if you use them well, maybe you get a couple of starters, one of them a star.

I think Jerry would do it. Why not the draft instead? An old story. In the heyday, Emmitt Smith won a showdown with Jerry over money. He held out. The Cowboys struggled to open the season. Charles Haley exploded in the locker room, slamming his helmet and yelling, "we can't win with a goddamn rookie at RB." After that, Emmit got paid and the Cowbiys resumed fheir glory. A healthy, focused and pissed off AP will be a force of nature behind that o-line.

That's not today's NFL. But neither is Jerry at heart.

This is no-lose from the Vikings' standpoint. AP can't act all butt hurt over being dangled when he is basically asking for it. Set a price, stand strong. If you get it, great. If you don't, AP comes back. He is not holding out.

 

[pappymojo]

It almost makes too much sense not to happen. A 3rd this year, 2nd next year, 3rd the following year - does that work for both teams? If you are Dallas and already paying the PR hit for Hardy is it that much more to take on AP as well?

 

[ifmanis5]

It's not over...



NFL Players Association files motion to hold NFL, commissioner in contempt of court in Adrian Peterson case - @NFLPA http://t.co/TU54fPdsek
— Breaking News (@BreakingNews) May 19, 2015

 

[Joshv02]

They basically argued three things:
1. Judge Doty had ordered the NFL/Henderson to do something consistent with the CBA after her ruling vacating disciplined imposed under the (improperly retroactively applied) new disciplinary policy, yet the NFL has consistently asked Henderson to actually do nothing, which has has apparently agreed to by, well, doing nothing;
 
2.  Judge Doty's prior ruling basically said the NFL/Henderson could not rely upon the old disciplinary rules because Goodell hadn't done so in the disciplinary order under review, and Henderson doesn't have power to do so under the CBA -- he has to only look at what the NFL actually did, not what the NFL could have done.  Since the NFL applied discipline under the new policy (even though Goodell previously said he couldn't, and Vincent expressly told AP that they wouldn't), they can't now also say "well, its good under the old policy, too."  But, the NFL has been urging Henderson to say that AP's discipline was OK under the old policy;
 
3.  The NFL also applied the new policy to Greg Hardy, even though Doty said that they couldn't apply the new policy retroactively.  And they did it after Doty's order.  Without any independent justification as to why this would be different than AP.  That just seems, well, stupid - or a good indication that the NFL isn't that into listening to people when told that they can't do something.
 
(They also use the word contumacious 9 times.  I assume they lost a bet.)
 
I don't think the NFLPA and Goodell are very good friends.  And, honestly, I can't imagine how anyone could ever trust the NFL in any discipline action ever - not because they'll get it right or wrong, but because they are lying liars.  Unfortunately, people like AP and Hardy may be not be great examples for the NFLPA fighting the good fight against a manager who doesn't follow a bargain for contract, or the legal system explaining that to them.  I'd suspect that Brady would be better.
 
But it isn't like the AP story is getting a lot of press these days.  And (no offense to any in the house), sports writers are generally (but not entirely) the journalists who couldn't write for the real sections of the newspaper; they don't (and shouldn't) take their job seriously enough to do real reporting.  And they certainly don't (as a general matter) get into labor/management stories.

 

[soxhop411]

@CharlesRobinson: A longtime Adrian Peterson confidant tells Yahoo Sports the #Vikings RB is sending a message by not reporting to OTAs: He wants a trade.

 

[brandonchristensen]

I wonder what he thinks about playing for a team that keeps their balls so deflated it's nearly impossible to fumble.

 

[Leather]

Vikes should have shopped him 5 months ago. N

 

[koufax32]

Lol, dude was with his family at Disney over the weekend. Much ado about nothing.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Doesn't sound like they have any interest in shopping him currently.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12962372/coach-mike-zimmer-says-adrian-peterson-options-play-minnesota-vikings-no-one

 

[soxhop411]

Overturned


http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/16/08/151438P.pdf

http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/16/08/151438P.pdf

 

[soxhop411]

NFLPA is going to go scorched earth at the next CBA talks

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Courts really sending a message that if you want some basic stuff like fairness and evidentiary procedure, negotiate for those things, they are not a given.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

There's no doubt that we're going to lose an entire NFL season when the CBA is up. If the courts won't say that fundamental fairness is required in CBAs, then the NFLPA has to fight for that, and the owners won't allow it.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I'll believe it when if I see otherwise, but why would anyone not expect the NFLPA to fold like a cheap suit again? Sure the leadership will do some saber rattling, posturing and shouting about the issues, but there is no reason to think the rank and file have any desire or the fortitude to deal with a work stoppage.

 

[yeahlunchbox]

Last time you had Kraft to help broker a deal, do you think Kraft is so quick to broker a deal that could be used against him again? And if not him, who steps up on the owner's side to be the rational voice in the room?

 

[WayBackVazquez]

I'm shocked that the Eighth Circuit did not recognize the genius and infallibility of the mighty Jeffrey Kessler.

I hope the NFLPA has learned its lesson and will start hiring appellate lawyers to handle its appeals from here on out.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Geez, that some pretty far-reaching language. If the Supreme Court was ever going to take up the issue, it looks like these two cases have presented them the opportunity.

 

[BaseballJones]

"Fundamental fairness is not a basis for vacatur identified in the Labor Management Relations Act or the Federal Arbitration Act."

In other words, and some of us have been saying this for a long time, there's literally nothing Goodell cannot do now, so long as he follows the procedure outlined in the CBA. And that procedure is:

- Goodell issues a penalty for some infraction (real or imagined).
- Allows the player a chance to appeal (which he can hear himself).
- Allows the player to take it to arbitration (which he can then preside over as arbiter).

If he issues an outrageous, insane penalty (don't forget: the NFL pointed out that they were originally thinking of an EIGHT game suspension for Brady), he can do it. And he has to let them appeal. And when they appeal, he can simply overturn the appeal. And then when they take it to "independent" arbitration, he can serve as the arbiter. And at each step of the process, he can simply reinforce the outrageous penalty.

And two courts of appeal now have basically said that even if the charges themselves are outrageous, and even if the penalty is beyond the pale, fundamental fairness is no reason why he cannot do this.

It is just beyond my comprehension that this is allowable. The assumption of the CBA is that there would be a commissioner acting fairly and neutrally, ESPECIALLY when acting as arbiter over an issue. The courts just threw that all out the window.

If Goodell were now to issue a season long suspension of Brady the next time the Patriots play with deflated footballs (which, of course, WILL happen because...physics), what can possibly be done about it? N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Nothing at all. Zip.

It's insanity.

 

[Steve Dillard]

Geez, that some pretty far-reaching language. If the Supreme Court was ever going to take up the issue, it looks like these two cases have presented them the opportunity.

Best decision for Brady getting the Sup. Ct. to hear the appeal. Olson must be giddy, as I don't think the "circuit split" on an issue was ever going to be presented. If you are going to lose, you might as well get the starkest of decisions against you.

 

[Super Nomario]

So what's Peterson's status now? He was already suspended, but now he has to apply for re-instatement? Is Goodell going to levy an additional suspension here, or just time served?

 

[edmunddantes]

He loses the opportunity to get back pay for the suspension being illegal as it has now been deemed legal.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

So what's Peterson's status now? He was already suspended, but now he has to apply for re-instatement? Is Goodell going to levy an additional suspension here, or just time served?

The courts just said Goodell could do any damn thing he pleases, so my guess is he makes Peterson be his chauffeur for a month.

 

[NickEsasky]

NFLPA is going to go scorched earth at the next CBA talks

There's no doubt that we're going to lose an entire NFL season when the CBA is up. If the courts won't say that fundamental fairness is required in CBAs, then the NFLPA has to fight for that, and the owners won't allow it.

I'd be shocked. Once the threat of missing a game check kicks in the NFLPA will come to the table and bend over for the owners all over again. When the average NFL career is 3.5 years, and contracts aren't guaranteed, you're going to see the non-elite wage earners want to make whatever money they can.

 

[Bongorific]

Best decision for Brady getting the Sup. Ct. to hear the appeal. Olson must be giddy, as I don't think the "circuit split" on an issue was ever going to be presented. If you are going to lose, you might as well get the starkest of decisions against you.

Agreed and something the Notorius RBG may be sympathetic towards.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Geez, that some pretty far-reaching language. If the Supreme Court was ever going to take up the issue, it looks like these two cases have presented them the opportunity.

Best decision for Brady getting the Sup. Ct. to hear the appeal. Olson must be giddy, as I don't think the "circuit split" on an issue was ever going to be presented. If you are going to lose, you might as well get the starkest of decisions against you.

I don't know where you get that. I would agree that Peterson has a fighter's chance, because there does appear to be an actual split between the Eighth Circuit (and Seventh) with the Ninth Circuit as to whether the LMRA provides a guarantee of fundamental procedural fairness, and the Peterson Court actually got there. The Second Circuit, however, held that even if there was such a guarantee, Brady wasn't deprived of it.

If the Court is going to take one of these cases, I think it takes Peterson, and I think it takes it on those grounds.

 

[DaveGallagher]

The courts just said Goodell could do any damn thing he pleases, so my guess is he makes Peterson be his chauffeur for a month.

He will probably make him his butler.

 

[Steve Dillard]

I don't know where you get that. I would agree that Peterson has a fighter's chance, because there does appear to be an actual split between the Eighth Circuit (and Seventh) with the Ninth Circuit as to whether the LMRA provides a guarantee of fundamental procedural fairness, and the Peterson Court actually got there. The Second Circuit, however, held that even if there was such a guarantee, Brady wasn't deprived of it.

If the Court is going to take one of these cases, I think it takes Peterson, and I think it takes it on those grounds.

The thing is that the Brady case and Peterson case arise at the same time, so they provide the Court a vehicle to address the entire issue. They do not have to choose just one case, and if they are to address the fundamental fairness point, they would take Both cases. Brady's cert is due in a week, so Olson has a bit of time to recast the cert in the "fundamental fairness" realm (that Feinberg's amicus addressed), bundle it with the Peterson cert that will be filed in a month. Because the Second Circuit decided fundamental fairness even without Berman addressing it, it allows the Supreme Court to write, if they are so inclined, and address a couple of applications of the concept.

 

[soxhop411]

“@WALLACHLEGAL: Troubling language for all NFL players on p. 6 of opinion: Goodell ”is not forever bound to historical precedent”: https://t.co/JlIOckD4lF