All-Potential and All-Disappointment Teams

jose melendez

Earl of Acie
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2003
31,324
Geneva, Switzerland
Maybe we can get a kind mod to break this out? I will add/remove based on suggestions.

The key to All-Potential Sox would be 5 tool pom-pom waving that never fully materialized, despite opportunity. Never trade this guy! He'll be hitting 30 home runs in no time. Etc. (Injury exception applies - Westmoreland, etc)

1B: Lars Anderson, Dernell Stenson, Michael Almanzar
2B: Donnie Saddler, Wil Cordero
SS: Rey Quinones, Juan Bustabad
3B: Wilton Veras, Arquimedez Pozo, Will Middlebrooks, Garin Cecchini, Tony Blanco
OF: Franchy Cordero, Michael Coleman, Wily Mo Pena, Rusney Castillo, Jeff McNeely, La Schelle Tarver, Sam Horn
C: Lavarnway, Lomasney, Swihart

SP: Robinson Checo, Brian Rose, Henry Owens, Paxton Crawford, Michael Bowden, Allen Webster, Ruby De La Rosa, Dennis Tankersley.
RP: Craig Hansen, Anastacio Martinez

Managed by: Joe Kerrigan


The key to All-Disappointment Sox would be a reasonable expectation that was never met. (Injury exception applies - e.g. Matt Clement)

1B: Tony Clark
2B: Wil Cordero
SS: Edgar Renteria
3B: Panda
LF: Hanley Ramirez
CF: Carl Crawford
RF:
C:
DH: Roberto Petagine?

SP: Steve Avery, Matt Young
RP: Eric Gagne, Ramiro Mendoza

Managed by Bobby Valentine.
RF is Mark Whitten
DH Jack Clark or maybe Andre Dawson
Even though he was good, I might put Adrian Gonzales at first.

C is tricky. Salty?
 

Sad Sam Jones

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2017
2,598
When the Indians acquired Nick Hagadone in the Victor Martinez trade, I'd have sworn he'd be saving games in Cleveland for a long time.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
RF is Mark Whitten
DH Jack Clark or maybe Andre Dawson
Even though he was good, I might put Adrian Gonzales at first.

C is tricky. Salty?
I came here to post Whiten.
Fun fact: his name is on a headline as a hot prospect in a scene in Bull Durham.
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,481
I'm not entirely sure how to classify this guy, and it's probably not entirely fair because he did play a useful role for the 2018 team, but people were pretty certain that the starting-pitcher version of Joe Kelly was on the verge of turning into a right-handed Johan Santana with a little bit of Greg Maddux thrown in for good measure. He did not.

Putting Bobby V. in charge of the All-Disappointment team doesn't seem right to me, as disappointment implies that there were expectations of something good at one point, and nobody thought that he would make a good manager. I mean nobody.
 

RIFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,127
Rhode Island
All Potential nominees
Dave Stapleton -1B International League MVP, runner up ROY and then ....not much.
Bobby Sprowl -P
Phil Plantier LF
Brian Rose -P
Anthony Ranaudo -P
Freddy Sanchez -2B
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,353
I recall Gammons putting up Kevin Morton's pitching line on a regular basis as he made his way up in the minors. He started his major league career in 1991 with a bang, holding Detroit to 1 run while striking out 9 in a complete game victory. It was feat never repeated: after striking out 36 batters in the remaining 77 innings (while also walking 39) in the rest of his rookie season, he never appeared in another major league game. And that was on a team whose pitching hopes rested solely on Roger Clemens and rainouts.
 

NoLastCall125

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
897
Providence, RI
Does Juan Diaz fit in the DH spot of the all-potential team? I thought he’d be the next version of Mo Vaughn when I saw him in Pawtucket. Dude had monster power. Just looking him up now - didn’t realize he hit a homerun in his last MLB at bat too.
 

oumbi

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2006
4,207
No votes for Joe Church at SS? Quinones and Bustabad were hyped, but Iglesias was supposed to be special™️.
He has played for 10 years in the majors in 884 games. A career .278/.319/.381 with a .699 OPS. His defense we all know about. One all star appearance and a career WAR of 11.2.

Nothing to rave about, but not "all disappointment" team either.
 
Last edited:

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,080
Miami (oh, Miami!)
I will update tomorrow, but keep the suggestions coming.

Our All-Disappointment team is a bit weak at present.

Please keep the criteria in mind; this is not a purely personal subjective opinion.

The key to All-Potential Sox would be 5 tool pom-pom waving that never fully materialized, despite opportunity. Never trade this guy! He'll be hitting 30 home runs in no time. Etc. (Injury exception applies - Westmoreland, etc)​
The key to All-Disappointment Sox would be a reasonable expectation that was never met. (Injury exception applies - e.g. Matt Clement)​

Jed Lowrie (for example) gets disqualified on all four prongs; 1) never absurdly hyped, 2) derailed by injury, 3) actually showed he had MLB skills later in his career, 4) he never disappointed as a Sox (save for being injured.)
 
Last edited:

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
74,269
C - Swihart
1B Stenson
SS Adam Everett
3B Middlebrooks (although he married well)
SP2 Curtice
SP3 Morton (started well . . .)
SP4 Yount
SP5 Garrett
CL Hansen
OF Jenkins
OF Coleman
OFBlosser
DH Alcantara
 
Last edited:

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
C - Swihart
1B Stenson
SS Adam Everett
3B Middlebrooks (although he married well)
SP2 Curtice
SP3 Morton (started well . . .)
SP4 Yount
SP5 Garrett
CF Jenkins
RF Coleman
LF Trey Ball
DH Alcantara
Adam was traded for Carl after spending 1 year in Boston's system. Adam also stuck around for 11 years and had a career 12.6 WAR. I wouldn't call him a disappointment.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2001
10,324
Two pages in and only one mention of Sam Horn?

Based mostly on Gasbag-isms:

Rey Quinones
Michael Coleman
Wilton Veras
Dernell Stenson
Donnie Sadler
Mike Brown
Eric Wedge
Ken Ryan
Robinson Checo, the Dominican Mystery Man (only thing Shank ever got right)
Frankie Rodriguez

Never lived up to their early starts:
Jeff Sellers
Aaron Selee
Phil Plantier
Dave Stapleton (this award should be named for him, I think he got worse every year he played)
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
74,269
Two pages in and only one mention of Sam Horn?

Based mostly on Gasbag-isms:

Rey Quinones
Michael Coleman
Wilton Veras
Dernell Stenson
Donnie Sadler
Mike Brown
Eric Wedge
Ken Ryan
Robinson Checo, the Dominican Mystery Man (only thing Shank ever got right)
Frankie Rodriguez

Never lived up to their early starts:
Jeff Sellers
Aaron Selee
Phil Plantier
Dave Stapleton (this award should be named for him, I think he got worse every year he played)
Sele was like the ace for 2 teams post-Red Sox. 15 game winner 4 straight years, 2 ASG, 1 top 5 Cy. Doesn't belong here IMHO. Not his fault Buford sucked.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,217
Man, there are going to be a LOT of pitchers on the Disappointment squad.

Frank Viola, anybody?

And who was the guy who got hit with a liner, and someone else said something like "he'll be okay, it hit him in the fat?"

EDIT - also, Eric Gagne has to be in the 'pen
 

jose melendez

Earl of Acie
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2003
31,324
Geneva, Switzerland
Two pages in and only one mention of Sam Horn?

Based mostly on Gasbag-isms:

Rey Quinones
Michael Coleman
Wilton Veras
Dernell Stenson
Donnie Sadler
Mike Brown
Eric Wedge
Ken Ryan
Robinson Checo, the Dominican Mystery Man (only thing Shank ever got right)
Frankie Rodriguez

Never lived up to their early starts:
Jeff Sellers
Aaron Selee
Phil Plantier
Dave Stapleton (this award should be named for him, I think he got worse every year he played)
Plantier is fascinating because he was awesome his first year in San Diego, and then nothing. Injuries based on his ABs? Or did peoplelearn to pitch to him.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Plantier is fascinating because he was awesome his first year in San Diego, and then nothing. Injuries based on his ABs? Or did peoplelearn to pitch to him.
They probably learned to pitch to him. He had that weird ass stance.

Looking it up, yeah. Crazy.

41419
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
74,269
Man, there are going to be a LOT of pitchers on the Disappointment squad.

Frank Viola, anybody?

And who was the guy who got hit with a liner, and someone else said something like "he'll be okay, it hit him in the fat?"

EDIT - also, Eric Gagne has to be in the 'pen
130 ERA+ in his 2+ Red Sox years. Not his fault the offense sucked
 

Amos Otis regrets

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2010
31
Was Rey Quinones really hyped? I just remember him as a meh major leaguer. H hit a little in A and AA, but not in AAA.
Gammons: “The prize apparently is 18-year-old Puerto Rican shortstop Rey Quiñones, a 6-foot-1 Frank Robinson lookalike, who is leading the club in homers (4) and has exceptional defensive tools.” [Pulled from Quinones' bio at Sabr.org] The Frank Robinson comparison apparently originated with Ted Williams.
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,230
It's probably Gammons fault, but I remember being over-hyped for Frankie Rodriguez (as both a P and SS). Casey Kelly 1.0.
I just started reading this and figured Frankie would show up sooner than he has. Also, his mlb debut was my wedding day; fortunately the marriage has not mirrored his career.
 

curly2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 8, 2003
4,925
Potential:

C- Blake Swihart
1B - Lars Anderson
2B - Donnie Sadler
SS - Rey Quinones
3B - Wilton Veras
OF - Greg Blosser
OF - Phil Plantier
OF - Sam Bowen
DH - Sam Horn
SP - Jeff Sellers, Brian Rose, Henry Owens, Michael Bowden, Trey Ball
RP - Craig Hansen, Ken Ryan
Manager - Butch Hobson

Disappointment
C - Dave Valle
1B - Danny Cater (I'm too young to remember him, but they traded Sparky Lyle for him)
2B - Carlos Baerga
SS - Edgar Renteria (not awful, but not good compared to his other stops)
3B - PABLO SANDOVAL!!!!
OF - Kevin Mitchell
OF - Mark Whiten
OF - Ivan Calderon
DH - Jack Clark (big three-year contract, one good year, one awful one, DFA)
SP - Mike Torrez, Matt Young, Tim Lollar
RP - Bobby Jenks, Mark Melancon
Manager - Bobby Valentine

Not sure which team they belong on: Robinson Checo, Rusney Castillo.
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,230
Fair enough.

But hey, can Luis Aparicio make the disappointment team as a pinch runner?

Not that I'm still bitter...
That does bring up Luis Alvarado, who was inserted at the beginning of the 1970 season at short because Rico couldn't cover any ground (not that he covered a lot in the first place), by June 11 he was back in the minors (returned briefly in Sept of that year) and Rico was back at short.
Alvarado was part of the trade that brought what was left of Luis Aparacio to the Red Sox.
 

dentstone

New Member
Nov 10, 2006
18
Jason Place deserves at least a mention in this thread. I can’t hear the name without thinking “light tower power.”
 

Hoya81

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 3, 2010
8,517
Ken Brett ended up having a serviceable career, if not necessarily meeting the expectations of a high pick.
 

deythur

New Member
Ill nominate Morgan Burkhart;
Was great in the independent league 3 time MVP including a triple crown year where he hit one .400
Hit well in AAA with the Sox then went on to dominate the Mexican league.
The guy raked everywhere but Boston.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,125
Tarver came to Boston from the Mets with Schiraldi and Wes Gardner in the Ojeda trade. IIRC he was regarded as the biggest prospect in that deal.

About 90% of the hyped prospects in this thread are courtesy of Gammons.
My memory was that Gardner was the steal of the deal. I remember going into bookstores to try to find Sunday Boston Globes so I could catch up on him.

Sueng Song was a great name and a #1 overall pick for the Korean baseball league that was supposed to be a coup signing.

I was poking around the internet and found this top 20 list from 2005 that has a few contenders for prospects: https://www.overthemonster.com/2005/12/23/13657/931

Andy Marte was supposed to be a multi-year All-Star at 3rd.
David Murphy (OF)
Kelly shoppach (C)
Abe Alvarez
Luis Soto
Michael Bowden
Michael Rozier
 

TenCentBeerNight

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 11, 2009
534
UK
Moved from down-thread. I will add/remove based on suggestions, then we can prune.

The key to All-Potential Sox would be 5 tool pom-pom waving that never fully materialized, despite opportunity. Never trade this guy! He'll be hitting 30 home runs in no time. Etc. (Injury exception applies - Westmoreland, etc)

...
3B: Wilton Veras, Arquimedez Pozo, Will Middlebrooks, Garin Cecchini, Tony Blanco
...

Managed by: Joe Kerrigan
Has former Christmas-season-only 3B Andy Marte been eliminated on a technicality?

Edit: too slow!
 
Last edited:

Brohamer of the Gods

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,010
Warwick, RI
Frank Tanana was disappointing in his one year in Boston, especially as the big piece in return for the Fred Lynn trade. He went 4-10, but I just looked up his stats and they weren't that bad. His ERA+ for the year was 97, so he wasn't stinking out the joint every time he pitched. Just disappointing.

Joe Rudi, another piece of that trade flat out stunk his one year in Boston but I don't know if anyone had any expectations of him coming in. That 1981 Red Sox team also featured such fan favorites as Chuck Rainey, Luis Aponte, and my beloved Chico Walker.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,080
Miami (oh, Miami!)
UPDATED.

-I moved the list to the first post of the thread so as to be easier to find.
-I didn't add folks who had decent careers or who had injuries I knew of.
-Also, I didn't add marginally hyped people who became averageish or better payers (Adam Everett, Ken Ryan, etc.) I did put in Frankie Rodriguez, but he was, for me, an almost perfect borderline example. Hyped as a #2, he turned out to be a #4, and was promptly traded. That said, he was a #4 SP and did that for a good long while.

If I missed your good candidate, please tell me why.

At this point, while we're still taking nominations, I think we should open up the quibbling phase of this project. Please look at the list and offer to strike or re-order names. The biggest Potentials and Disappointments go first. Most importantly, if you want to strike someone, or add someone, or think one player deserves the top spot, briefly say why.

The key to All-Potential Sox would be 5 tool pom-pom waving that never fully materialized, despite opportunity. Never trade this guy! He'll be hitting 30 home runs in no time. Etc. (Injury exception applies - Westmoreland, etc)

1B: Lars Anderson, Dernell Stenson, Michael Almanzar, Dave Stapleton
2B: Donnie Saddler, Wil Cordero
SS: Rey Quinones, Juan Bustabad
3B: Wilton Veras, Arquimedez Pozo, Will Middlebrooks, Garin Cecchini, Tony Blanco, Andy Marte.
OF: Franchy Cordero, Michael Coleman, Wily Mo Pena, Rusney Castillo, Jeff McNeely, La Schelle Tarver, Sam Horn, Izzy Alcantara, Greg Blosser, Jason Place, David Murphy.
C: Lavarnway, Lomasney, Swihart, Wedge, Soppach.
DH: Morgan Burkhart.

SP: Robinson Checo, Brian Rose, Henry Owens, Paxton Crawford, Michael Bowden, Allen Webster, Ruby De La Rosa, Dennis Tankersley, Bobby Sprowl, Mike Brown, Frankie Rodriguez.
RP: Craig Hansen, Anastacio Martinez

Managed by: Joe Kerrigan, Butch Hobson.


The key to All-Disappointment Sox would be a reasonable expectation that was never met. (Injury exception applies - e.g. Matt Clement)

1B: Tony Clark, Danny Carter
2B: Wil Cordero, Carlos Baerga
SS: Edgar Renteria
3B: Panda
OF: Hanley Ramirez, Carl Crawford, Mark Whiten, Kevin Mitchell, Ivan Calderon.
C:
DH: Roberto Petagine, Jack Clark.

SP: Steve Avery, Matt Young, Frank Tanana.
RP: Eric Gagne, Ramiro Mendoza

Managed by Bobby Valentine.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,080
Miami (oh, Miami!)
I'm not entirely sure how to classify this guy, and it's probably not entirely fair because he did play a useful role for the 2018 team, but people were pretty certain that the starting-pitcher version of Joe Kelly was on the verge of turning into a right-handed Johan Santana with a little bit of Greg Maddux thrown in for good measure. He did not.

Putting Bobby V. in charge of the All-Disappointment team doesn't seem right to me, as disappointment implies that there were expectations of something good at one point, and nobody thought that he would make a good manager. I mean nobody.
FWIW, Joe Kelly had promise, but was far from a failure/disappointment, given his track record. Miller was another guy who "found his role" and did very well in it. I say that in the context of this thread. We're looking for the All-Stars here.

I hear you on the Bobby V skepticism. But while unliked, he was expected to be at least an adequate manager, an OK-ish stop-gap. Basically he nuked that team. I'm not sure there's a better example of a manager with such a large expectations/results gap. Thoughts?
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,080
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Calderon was one of the last of so many Lou Gorman acquisitions who had hype for what they were before they arrived, but were simply past their prime,so were never going to live up to the hype. Guys like Jack Clark and Andre Dawson and Danny Darwin. Calderon was younger than those guys by 3-5 years (age 31), but he was definitely past his prime. IIRC they traded for him but he was on the verge of being released anyway, so they gave up players they didn't have to to secure his meager contributions.
Overall, I'd agree with this. Dante Bichette would be another one. However, I put in Clark because of his contract and the fact that he fell off the table (he had some purely personal issues as opposed to an injury, IIRC). Calderon also because of his age. But maybe we should strike one or both, or put them at the end of the list. Thoughts?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
6,567
UPDATED.

-I moved the list to the first post of the thread so as to be easier to find.
-I didn't add folks who had decent careers or who had injuries I knew of.
-Also, I didn't add marginally hyped people who became averageish or better payers (Adam Everett, Ken Ryan, etc.) I did put in Frankie Rodriguez, but he was, for me, an almost perfect borderline example. Hyped as a #2, he turned out to be a #4, and was promptly traded. That said, he was a #4 SP and did that for a good long while.

If I missed your good candidate, please tell me why.

At this point, while we're still taking nominations, I think we should open up the quibbling phase of this project. Please look at the list and offer to strike or re-order names. The biggest Potentials and Disappointments go first. Most importantly, if you want to strike someone, or add someone, or think one player deserves the top spot, briefly say why.

The key to All-Potential Sox would be 5 tool pom-pom waving that never fully materialized, despite opportunity. Never trade this guy! He'll be hitting 30 home runs in no time. Etc. (Injury exception applies - Westmoreland, etc)

1B: Lars Anderson, Dernell Stenson, Michael Almanzar, Dave Stapleton
2B: Donnie Saddler, Wil Cordero
SS: Rey Quinones, Juan Bustabad
3B: Wilton Veras, Arquimedez Pozo, Will Middlebrooks, Garin Cecchini, Tony Blanco, Andy Marte.
OF: Franchy Cordero, Michael Coleman, Wily Mo Pena, Rusney Castillo, Jeff McNeely, La Schelle Tarver, Sam Horn, Izzy Alcantara, Greg Blosser, Jason Place, David Murphy.
C: Lavarnway, Lomasney, Swihart, Wedge, Soppach.
DH: Morgan Burkhart.

SP: Robinson Checo, Brian Rose, Henry Owens, Paxton Crawford, Michael Bowden, Allen Webster, Ruby De La Rosa, Dennis Tankersley, Bobby Sprowl, Mike Brown, Frankie Rodriguez.
RP: Craig Hansen, Anastacio Martinez

Managed by: Joe Kerrigan, Butch Hobson.


The key to All-Disappointment Sox would be a reasonable expectation that was never met. (Injury exception applies - e.g. Matt Clement)

1B: Tony Clark, Danny Carter
2B: Wil Cordero, Carlos Baerga
SS: Edgar Renteria
3B: Panda
OF: Hanley Ramirez, Carl Crawford, Mark Whiten, Kevin Mitchell, Ivan Calderon.
C:
DH: Roberto Petagine, Jack Clark.

SP: Steve Avery, Matt Young, Frank Tanana.
RP: Eric Gagne, Ramiro Mendoza

Managed by Bobby Valentine.
I would actually put Saltalamacchia on the All-Disappointment Team. He was just okay at the dish.. defensively he was garbage. I don't know what realistic expectations of him were at the time but mine were better, much better than what he gave the Sox. Maybe not to the extent of some other "disappointments" here.

As an aside... I'm trying to think of a more sunny, optimistic thread as a "Surprise Finds" team... basically the reverse of the Disappointments. Guys that exceeded expectations for at least one full season... I'll have time post-work today and will start that up, thinking it'll bring some positive energy
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,080
Miami (oh, Miami!)
As an aside... I'm trying to think of a more sunny, optimistic thread as a "Surprise Finds" team... basically the reverse of the Disappointments. Guys that exceeded expectations for at least one full season... I'll have time post-work today and will start that up, thinking it'll bring some positive energy
I'll start that one up as a separate thread.

And it's done: https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/all-overachievers-team.33631/#post-4435316
 
Last edited:

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Andy Marte never played a single game for the Redsox Organization and was immediately traded for Coco Crisp. He should not be on the list. He was traded for in December and was traded away in January.
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,230
Gammons: “The prize apparently is 18-year-old Puerto Rican shortstop Rey Quiñones, a 6-foot-1 Frank Robinson lookalike, who is leading the club in homers (4) and has exceptional defensive tools.” [Pulled from Quinones' bio at Sabr.org] The Frank Robinson comparison apparently originated with Ted Williams.
Quinones was worth having on the team just to hear Phil Rizzuto pronounce his name during a broadcast.
 

ngruz25

Bibby
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,093
Pittsburgh, PA
Joel Hanrahan and Andrew Bailey are warming up in the All-Disappointment pen.

Both were pretty big "closer of the future" trades. Both were terrible, then injured. Bailey was serviceable in low leverage work in his second season. Hanrahan disappeared into the ether.