Betts/Price to LA for Verdugo/Jeter Downs/TBA

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geoduck no quahog

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Can someone please explain to me the framework? The way I see it is that the Dodgers traded Maeda for Graterol. Then the Dodgers traded Graterol to the Red Sox as part of a Betts/Price package. Graterol was a Dodger for 1/10 of a second. Objectively, the Red Sox complaint is with the Dodgers, not the Twins. Isn't it up to LA to make the Red Sox good, whether or not the Twins are re-involved?
 

E5 Yaz

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At least one prospect.

Trading Betts+Price for Myers alone makes no sense. Price and Myers are roughly equal in (negative) value, so the Sox would be giving Mookie away for free. The Padres would have to include a top prospect like Luis Patino or Campusano plus one or two others.
Again ... the Padres weren't in this deal for Price. They just wanted Mookie
 

E5 Yaz

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Can someone please explain to me the framework? The way I see it is that the Dodgers traded Maeda for Graterol. Then the Dodgers traded Graterol to the Red Sox as part of a Betts/Price package. Graterol was a Dodger for 1/10 of a second. Objectively, the Red Sox complaint is with the Dodgers, not the Twins. Isn't it up to LA to make the Red Sox good, whether or not the Twins are re-involved?
Because it doesn't work the way you see it.

Graterol is never a member of the Dodgers. It's just a three-hand handshake.
A gives X to B and Y to C.
B gives XX to C.
C gives YY and ZZ to A.
 

edoug

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Because it doesn't work the way you see it.

Graterol is never a member of the Dodgers. It's just a three-hand handshake.
A gives X to B and Y to C.
B gives XX to C.
C gives YY and ZZ to A.
It all adds up to a FU to US
 

EvilEmpire

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Can someone please explain to me the framework? The way I see it is that the Dodgers traded Maeda for Graterol. Then the Dodgers traded Graterol to the Red Sox as part of a Betts/Price package. Graterol was a Dodger for 1/10 of a second. Objectively, the Red Sox complaint is with the Dodgers, not the Twins. Isn't it up to LA to make the Red Sox good, whether or not the Twins are re-involved?
Huh? It is a three team deal contingent on all players being accepted. The Dodgers didn't trade for Graterol first. The Dodgers don't want him. The Red Sox do. At least they did before they conducted his physical.

One trade, not two.
 

chawson

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Presumably there’s an advanced standing offer from the Padres that’s much more complex than simply Betts and Price for Myers. Bloom’s negotiations with both teams took weeks, it wouldn’t make sense for the Padres offer to be than much different than the three-team trade that was reported.
 

E5 Yaz

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Presumably there’s an advanced standing offer from the Padres that’s much more complex than simply Betts and Price for Myers.
Please link to any credible source that says the Padres wanted Price as part of a deal?
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Presumably there’s an advanced standing offer from the Padres that’s much more complex than simply Betts and Price for Myers. Bloom’s negotiations with both teams took weeks, it wouldn’t make sense for the Padres offer to be than much different than the three-team trade that was reported.
San Diego was not interested in David Price. I'm sure his name came up (from Bloom), but the Padres don't really have the budget for Betts and Price. They were looking to snag a year of Mookie to make a playoff run without giving up any of their top prospects.

The Sox were looking at trading Mookie to SD for prospects and Price elsewhere while covering much of his contract. Once the Dodgers came in and said they'd take both, plus give the Sox two prospects, the Padres couldn't really compete.
 

JimD

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Because the hotel room incident story isn’t going away in this market. In this fishbowl that story is just going to go on getting worse and the pressure to unload him is going to get unbearable for the organization. And he’s going to end up getting traded someplace like Tampa for pennies on the dollar as damaged goods.
I disagree - the story will go away unless the video surfaces or some other evidence comes up that implicates Verdugo. If there is nothing more than what we have now, it will be reported on by the local media, the Red Sox will make a statement showing how seriously they take this and that they did their due diligence, the player himself will make a statement expressing contrition and how much he has grown, and there will be quotes from various Dodgers sources about how he's actually a good guy. And that will be it barring any other developments. I don't see how there will be protests at Fenway Park without some credible piece of evidence that he was a bad actor that night. Meanwhile, the local sports media will be more likely to take shots at him for not being able to stay on the field or for failing to fill Mookie's huge shoes than for this.
 

jon abbey

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It definitely doesn't say the Padres had any interest in Price, and in fact, if anyone had been willing to pay half his salary, seems like he would have been gone then, two months ago.
 

SoxFanInPdx

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Whatever happens, I hope this is the last time we deal anything of value to the Dodgers moving forward. Friedman gave up basically nothing for Betts and this bullshit of wanting to get other teams involved so he doesn't have to part with barely any of the Dodgers prospects is insane. I'll still root for Mookie there as an individual player of course, but I hope the Dodgers implode again like last season.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Whatever happens, I hope this is the last time we deal anything of value to the Dodgers moving forward. Friedman gave up basically nothing for Betts and this bullshit of wanting to get other teams involved so he doesn't have to part with barely any of the Dodgers prospects is insane. I'll still root for Mookie there as an individual player of course, but I hope the Dodgers implode again like last season.
I mean I've been critical of the trade as well but I wouldn't define the return as nothing. Verdugo was a 3 WAR player last year.

That being said I agree that I never want Bloom to make another trade with his daddy.
 

chawson

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Okay, good find; but that still doesn't indicate that the deal being discussed was for both Price and Betts.
Fair, but since there’s interest in both players I guess I felt like it was safe to infer.

Considering their prospect gold and the weight of Myers’s contract being comparable to Price’s, there are enough differently shaped pieces on both teams to build something that can stand and walk.
 

teddywingman

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This whole thing is horseshit. Graterol has arm issues, but he'll be alright in the bullpen? Yeah. That makes sense.

And this Verdugo character?

I've said from the beginning that I'm not watching this season if Mookie is gone... but this just makes it easy.
 

nighthob

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At this point I’d rather they talk to the Yankees about Gil and an A ball flyer and laugh as the MFY demolish the Dodgers in the World Series.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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It's quite a bit arrogant of Friedman to pin this on the Twins when clearly he could add a prospect from his system to get this done.
But why should he? Its clearly obvious who holds all the leverage in the deal. From an objective point of view Friedman is probably looking at the situation as Bloom doesn't want to deal with an unhappy boss and will cave. Who in baseball knows Chaim Bloom better than Friedman?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Part of what we don't know is what kind of handshake arrangement happened here with the Dodgers. Deals aren't done until they are done, but teams also have to be careful not to burn a bridge.

Maybe the course of negotiations make it so that Bloom really would be doing Friedman dirty if falls apart over the Twins piece. Without knowing what was said on the phone, it is really hard to evaluate who should be feeling aggrieved here.

In the end, my sense is that Bloom should have better the better hand than E5's dad's four diamonds. While getting "stuck" with Mookie after almost trading him and not getting under the cap is not an ideal situation, if he has the power to blow up the deal here he's really holding the cards I think. We just don't know if that would be burning a bridge.

The bottom line is that given how long this is going on it's gotten to the point where it's pretty clear that either: (1) there are serious discussions with another team either as a straight Mookie trade partner or a third team, or (2) someone is playing chicken.

If you had to guess who is playing chicken, I guess the sense of the board that it's probably Friedman tends to seem to make common sense. But who knows?
 

nighthob

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I mean if this is Friedman’s position why would you ever want to deal with him again anyway? Even if Friedman made that threat, if Betts kills the Dodgers as a Brave or Yankee he’s going to end up getting Cheringtonned anyway.
 

EvilEmpire

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If you are the dodgers and this trade falls through because of one prospect, somebody's going to get fired. Personally hope it fails, but on the other hand i also don't believe in miracles.
Why?

Maybe the Dodgers really like Verdugo. Maybe they think they're going to get Mookie next year anyway. Maybe they're ambivalent about Price even with the subsidy. Who knows?

I know the Dodgers and their fan base are eager for a title. I question how much pressure those fans will put on the team if this deal falls through. I don't know how much of that pressure exists in LA outside of the Lakers. I also think the cheating scandals takes some of the pressure off. Fans can convince themselves that the team would have been good enough to win one already, and it is easier for them to direct their hate at opposing teams than it is the laundry.

edit: I mean, damn. Friedman is running the show there. He's done a great job in LA. He isn't getting fired for holding a firm line on a trade.
 

nighthob

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If the impact player that he refused to trade for (at the cost of a prospect that would almost certainly never play a day for the Dodgers) ends up killing them in the postseason, he’s going to find life a little uncomfortable.
 

Ale Xander

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Why?

Maybe the Dodgers really like Verdugo. Maybe they think they're going to get Mookie next year anyway. Maybe they're ambivalent about Price even with the subsidy. Who knows?

I know the Dodgers and their fan base are eager for a title. I question how much pressure those fans will put on the team if this deal falls through. I don't know how much of that pressure exists in LA outside of the Lakers. I also think the cheating scandals takes some of the pressure off. Fans can convince themselves that the team would have been good enough to win one already, and it is easier for them to direct their hate at opposing teams than it is the laundry.

edit: I mean, damn. Friedman is running the show there. He's done a great job in LA. He isn't getting fired for holding a firm line on a trade.
As long as they have their budget and a 3 decade dryness of titles, there will be a hot seat there.
 

nattysez

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I hate to say it, but Mookie's getting traded regardless of whether this deal falls apart or not. However, there is no reason the Sox can't trade him for (1) a reasonable return and (2) guys who people will feel comfortable rooting for.
 

RedOctober3829

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But why should he? Its clearly obvious who holds all the leverage in the deal. From an objective point of view Friedman is probably looking at the situation as Bloom doesn't want to deal with an unhappy boss and will cave. Who in baseball knows Chaim Bloom better than Friedman?
As David Price one said, Chaim Bloom holds the trump card. LA wants Betts. Bloom can pull out of this deal any time he wants to.
 

Captaincoop

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If the impact player that he refused to trade for (at the cost of a prospect that would almost certainly never play a day for the Dodgers) ends up killing them in the postseason, he’s going to find life a little uncomfortable.
You're overestimating how many die-hard Dodgers fans there are. It's so different than Boston.
 

fiskful of dollars

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I think the LAD are under slightly more pressure to finalize this deal. But it's a near thing, right? Bloom has been given his marching orders. This crummy deal is accomplishing some pretty important goals for the Sox re 2020 and beyond. IF it falls through, the Sox are in a tight spot too. I suspect everyone wants this done and done quickly so maybe the Sox get a sweetener - but I'm not holding my breath for a sig upgrade anywhere. Hope I'm wrong.
 

nighthob

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You're overestimating how many die-hard Dodgers fans there are. It's so different than Boston.
I was talking about the ownership group.

2/7/20 AF: “Look, guys, we hold the line here, no way are we giving up any minor leaguer that we could possibly trade for more minor leaguers just to get Mookie Betts. They can just go pound fucking sand. We don’t need that guy to win a World Series anyway.

11/30/20 Owners: “Hey, Andy, remember when you said that we didn’t need Mookie Betts to win a World Series...”
 

SoxFanInPdx

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I was talking about the ownership group.

2/7/20 AF: “Look, guys, we hold the line here, no way are we giving up any minor leaguer that we could possibly trade for more minor leaguers just to get Mookie Betts. They can just go pound fucking sand. We don’t need that guy to win a World Series anyway.

11/30/20 Owners: “Hey, Andy, remember when you said that we didn’t need Mookie Betts to win a World Series...”

Bingo.
 

nighthob

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Right, LA is Frontrunner City. Everybody out there loves a winner, but the Dodgers haven’t won since I was on the good side of 30. The owners have to be getting desperate to mine the frontrunner vein for cash.
 

NickEsasky

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And this is where the Red Sox should call the bluff. "We're taking our players back and going to Fort Myers."
Henry already bought a new yacht with the money he's saving. You know how they depreciate once you sail them off the dock.
 

VORP Speed

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Andrew Friedman has been the best GM in baseball for the last 15 years, has won the NL West every single year he’s been in LA, just signed a huge new contract 2 months ago and is 100% the man running the show. He’s not getting fired.
 

EvilEmpire

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I was talking about the ownership group.

2/7/20 AF: “Look, guys, we hold the line here, no way are we giving up any minor leaguer that we could possibly trade for more minor leaguers just to get Mookie Betts. They can just go pound fucking sand. We don’t need that guy to win a World Series anyway.

11/30/20 Owners: “Hey, Andy, remember when you said that we didn’t need Mookie Betts to win a World Series...”
Friedman: "Yeah, that didn't work out. Again. Damn Kershaw. I think we're going to make a big offer to Betts and try to get him on board."
 

nighthob

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Andrew Friedman has been the best GM in baseball for the last 15 years, has won the NL West every single year he’s been in LA, just signed a huge new contract 2 months ago and is 100% the man running the show. He’s not getting fired.
Great, he can continue being the best GM to never win a title. You know what would be really hilarious? If Boston sent Betts to the MFY and Betts kill LA in the World Series, followed by Mookie signing with the Braves as a free agent and then proceeding to kill the Dodgers in the 2021 playoffs.
 

jon abbey

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I am as likely to be in the Yankees’ Opening Day lineup as Mookie is, come on now.
 

BigJimEd

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The bottom line is that given how long this is going on it's gotten to the point where it's pretty clear that either: (1) there are serious discussions with another team either as a straight Mookie trade partner or a third team, or (2) someone is playing chicken.
Has it really gone on that long though? There really isn't a rush here other than our impatience.
 
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