Betts/Price to LA for Verdugo/Jeter Downs/TBA

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nighthob

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Has this even been considered in any way whatsoever? There's enough angst around these parts already without posts that have no credence.
If the thought starting “You know what would be really hilarious?” Didn’t tip you off about the seriousness of what was to follow I don’t know what to tell you. Because if would be fucking hilarious.
 

SouthernBoSox

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It's really difficult for me to step back and look at this from a big picture and not come to the conclusion that Andrew Friedman is being extremely unreasonable.
 

Otis Foster

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Maybe I missed it but I don’t think I did. Has there been anything, like anything at all, on Verduga’s back?

That situation seems very odd.
if Mookie is traded to the Yankees I will go nude on the street.
Please give me a heads up so I can lock myself in the house, draw the shades down and watch endless loops of Jeopardy at top volume.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I don't believe anything unless its from Jake Wesley. His reporting during the Lester FA campaign was amazing!
 

bankshot1

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Just to avoid the posibility of Shanks grand-kid writing Curse of the Bettsbino, a trade to the MFY will never happen.

If a character flawed Verdugo and a sore-armed relief pitcher is the best package out there for Betts and Price

don't walk away

Run away

Put some pressure on the LAD's to cancel the WS parade
 

nighthob

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If a character flawed Verdugo and a sore-armed relief pitcher is the best package out there for Betts and Price don't walk away

Run away
I mean Graterol for Maeda is a reasonable trade. A physically and morally damaged OF and Maeda for Betts and Price is the part that’s unreasonable.
 

nvalvo

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This whole thing is horseshit. Graterol has arm issues, but he'll be alright in the bullpen? Yeah. That makes sense.
This happens all the time. The Cardinals' Carlos Martinez is a recent example, where the team has moved him back and forth from rotation to bullpen more due to fears about his durability than his ability.

The appeal of Graterol is that he is built like a Mack truck, and at least could (pre-injury) throw devastating 99 mph two-seamers and nasty 91 mph sliders deep into games. He was a very, very good starting pitcher in AA last season as one of the youngest players in his league, even as his third pitch, a changeup, was a work in progress. After his injury, they brought him up, and his 1-2-3 inning in the ALDS against NY was one of the only bright spots for the Twins that postseason. Bottom line: he'd be a good relief pitcher in the American League today.

But if the Sox aren't sure he can shoulder (pun intended) a starter's load after looking at his medicals, then he's merely a guy who can throw 25 99 mph two-seamers and nasty 91 mph sliders. That's still a valuable piece, but not as valuable as a guy who can throw 110 of them. He's no longer the co-centerpiece of a trade for Mookie Betts, even if he might be fine as a third piece.
 
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nighthob

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This happens all the time. The Cardinals' Carlos Martinez is a recent example, where the team has moved him back and forth from rotation to bullpen more due to fears about his durability than his ability.

The appeal of Graterol is that he is built like a Mac truck, and at least could (pre-injury) throw devastating 99 mph two-seamers and nasty 91 mph sliders deep into games. He was a very, very good starting pitcher in AA last season as one of the youngest players in his league, even as his third pitch, a changeup, was a work in progress. After his injury, they brought him up, and his 1-2-3 inning in the ALDS against NY was one of the only bright spots for the Twins that postseason. Bottom line: he'd be a good relief pitcher in the American League today.

But if the Sox aren't sure he can shoulder (pun intended) a starter's load after looking at his medicals, then he's merely a guy who can throw 25 99 mph two-seamers and nasty 91 mph sliders. That's still a valuable piece, but not as valuable as a guy who can throw 110 of them. He's no longer the co-centerpiece of a trade for Mookie Betts, even if he might be fine as a third piece.
Right, and someone like that for Maeda is perfectly reasonable. To be brutally frank LA might want to rethink this a little because Graterol is exactly the kind of guy they’ll need coming out of the pen if they get New York in the World Series. I’d much rather add him to the pen and make the Betts deal around Verdugo, one of Downs or Gonsolin, and an A ball flyer.
 

jon abbey

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his 1-2-3 inning in the ALDS against NY was one of the only bright spots for the Twins that postseason.
Just because you've mentioned this twice, this inning was the bottom of the 8th in a game MIN was losing 10-4, not exactly the most pressure-filled situation.
 

effectivelywild

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Has this even been considered in any way whatsoever? There's enough angst around these parts already without posts that have no credence.
I have it on good authority that DeadlySplitter in fact has been strongly considering walking around nude in the street.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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It's really difficult for me to step back and look at this from a big picture and not come to the conclusion that Andrew Friedman is being extremely unreasonable.
Why should he be reasonable? He has his padawan bent over a barrel and there's nothing Bloom can do about it. He doesn't get Mookie Betts, he still has the odds-on-favorite to win the National League. Bloom's bosses have made it pretty clear that they want to cut payroll and this is the only team that is going to take Betts AND Price off his hands. Bloom has to make this deal more than Friedman does, which is why these boasts of, "I'm taking Mookie off the table" are so laughable. Fine, go ahead, now you're where you were two weeks ago, only no your superstar free agent is pissed at you that you tried to deal him and the moody pitcher, who has 10/5 rights in a few months is also annoyed.

Friedman has no obligation to make this easy for Bloom and TBH, if Friedman really wanted to be an asshole, he'd offer him less.

I have to say that if the first major transaction of Chaim Bloom is any indication, we're in for a long, dumb tenure with our new GM. I'm not even remotely impressed, this has been a disaster.
 

nvalvo

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Just because you've mentioned this twice, this inning was the bottom of the 8th in a game MIN was losing 10-4, not exactly the most pressure-filled situation.
Sure. It was still an inning pitched in the post season against a great big league offense from a guy who started the season as a 20 year old in AA.

edit: which is to say, it's more significant that he made the playoff roster than what he did once there.
 
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RedOctober3829

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Why should he be reasonable? He has his padawan bent over a barrel and there's nothing Bloom can do about it. He doesn't get Mookie Betts, he still has the odds-on-favorite to win the National League. Bloom's bosses have made it pretty clear that they want to cut payroll and this is the only team that is going to take Betts AND Price off his hands. Bloom has to make this deal more than Friedman does, which is why these boasts of, "I'm taking Mookie off the table" are so laughable. Fine, go ahead, now you're where you were two weeks ago, only no your superstar free agent is pissed at you that you tried to deal him and the moody pitcher, who has 10/5 rights in a few months is also annoyed.

Friedman has no obligation to make this easy for Bloom and TBH, if Friedman really wanted to be an asshole, he'd offer him less.

I have to say that if the first major transaction of Chaim Bloom is any indication, we're in for a long, dumb tenure with our new GM. I'm not even remotely impressed, this has been a disaster.
Friedman would have blowback from LA fans because he lost out on Mookie Betts because he wouldn't include a prospect from his stacked system. If they go on to not win the WS again, fans and his bosses may point at this as the reason. They don't care that they are the odds-on favorites to win the NL again because they've gone to the WS enough. It's time to win it and Betts/Price can put them over the top. There are a lot of reasons why Bloom has to do this deal too, but there is more pressure for Friedman to do this now that it's been agreed to than you are letting on. Bloom can easily say that Henry is privately fine with carrying Betts/Price into the season and going for it one more time.
 

absintheofmalaise

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Folks, if you're going to post tweets from people that the vast majority have never heard of then you also need to post information about the person doing the tweeting. And, "he's verified!" doesn't count. All that means is that Twitter verified that you are who you say you are. It's the internet equivalent of showing your ID to buy something.
 

Rovin Romine

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Just because you've mentioned this twice, this inning was the bottom of the 8th in a game MIN was losing 10-4, not exactly the most pressure-filled situation.
While this is true, I doubt the Yankee batters decided to forgo some nationally televised hits off an otherwise hittable reliever.
 

jon abbey

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Why should he be reasonable? He has his padawan bent over a barrel and there's nothing Bloom can do about it. He doesn't get Mookie Betts, he still has the odds-on-favorite to win the National League. Bloom's bosses have made it pretty clear that they want to cut payroll and this is the only team that is going to take Betts AND Price off his hands. Bloom has to make this deal more than Friedman does, which is why these boasts of, "I'm taking Mookie off the table" are so laughable. Fine, go ahead, now you're where you were two weeks ago, only no your superstar free agent is pissed at you that you tried to deal him and the moody pitcher, who has 10/5 rights in a few months is also annoyed.
I cut off the last part of this because I do still think Bloom could be a perfect fit here if he is given enough time (3-4 years at least) to revamp the system, but I fully agree with this paragraph. The pressure here is more on BOS than it is LAD, LAD goes into the season as strong favorites to win the NL either way.
 

Jimbodandy

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Friedman would have blowback from LA fans because he lost out on Mookie Betts because he wouldn't include a prospect from his stacked system. If they go on to not win the WS again, fans and his bosses may point at this as the reason. They don't care that they are the odds-on favorites to win the NL again because they've gone to the WS enough. It's time to win it and Betts/Price can put them over the top. There are a lot of reasons why Bloom has to do this deal too, but there is more pressure for Friedman to do this now that it's been agreed to than you are letting on. Bloom can easily say that Henry is privately fine with carrying Betts/Price into the season and going for it one more time.
Deciding who has the leverage in this trade seems to be influenced by whether one wants the trade to happen at all.

It's a game of chicken. And it's Bloom's first time at the adults table doing so. There are 28 other ownership groups and GMs watching also.
 

jon abbey

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While this is true, I doubt the Yankee batters decided to forgo some nationally televised hits off an otherwise hittable reliever.
I mean, if we're going to keep going on this, he got out Gardner (.528 OPS in the 2019 postseason), Encarnacion (.536) and Cameron Maybin, who has yet to be signed this winter. I'm not knocking him, I'm just saying this is barely anything.
 

Rovin Romine

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I mean, if we're going to keep going on this, he got out Gardner (.528 OPS in the 2019 postseason), Encarnacion (.536) and Cameron Maybin, who has yet to be signed this winter. I'm not knocking him, I'm just saying this is barely anything.
Fair enough - that's data I can get behind.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Friedman would have blowback from LA fans because he lost out on Mookie Betts because he wouldn't include a prospect from his stacked system. If they go on to not win the WS again, fans and his bosses may point at this as the reason. They don't care that they are the odds-on favorites to win the NL again because they've gone to the WS enough. It's time to win it and Betts/Price can put them over the top. There are a lot of reasons why Bloom has to do this deal too, but there is more pressure for Friedman to do this now that it's been agreed to than you are letting on. Bloom can easily say that Henry is privately fine with carrying Betts/Price into the season and going for it one more time.
Okay. Say he does get blow back from the Dodgers fans, all he has to do is splash $400m in front of Mookie in November. Or he can trade for him in July. Or the Dodgers could still win the World Series without Mookie.

Because like VORPSpeed said, "Andrew Friedman has been the best GM in baseball for the last 15 years, has won the NL West every single year he’s been in LA, just signed a huge new contract 2 months ago and is 100% the man running the show. He’s not getting fired."

And if he does get fired, I hope that the Sox boot Bloom out of the front office damn quick and sign Friedman to a long-term extension because that would be the DUMBEST thing that the Los Angeles Dodgers could ever do.
 

RedOctober3829

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Okay. Say he does get blow back from the Dodgers fans, all he has to do is splash $400m in front of Mookie in November. Or he can trade for him in July. Or the Dodgers could still win the World Series without Mookie.

Because like VORPSpeed said, "Andrew Friedman has been the best GM in baseball for the last 15 years, has won the NL West every single year he’s been in LA, just signed a huge new contract 2 months ago and is 100% the man running the show. He’s not getting fired."

And if he does get fired, I hope that the Sox boot Bloom out of the front office damn quick and sign Friedman to a long-term extension because that would be the DUMBEST thing that the Los Angeles Dodgers could ever do.
Oh he's not getting fired. He's the best GM in the game for sure. All I'm saying is to get this deal done just put another prospect in and wipe your hands of it.
 

Mooch

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Why should he be reasonable? He has his padawan bent over a barrel and there's nothing Bloom can do about it. He doesn't get Mookie Betts, he still has the odds-on-favorite to win the National League. Bloom's bosses have made it pretty clear that they want to cut payroll and this is the only team that is going to take Betts AND Price off his hands. Bloom has to make this deal more than Friedman does, which is why these boasts of, "I'm taking Mookie off the table" are so laughable. Fine, go ahead, now you're where you were two weeks ago, only no your superstar free agent is pissed at you that you tried to deal him and the moody pitcher, who has 10/5 rights in a few months is also annoyed.

Friedman has no obligation to make this easy for Bloom and TBH, if Friedman really wanted to be an asshole, he'd offer him less.

I have to say that if the first major transaction of Chaim Bloom is any indication, we're in for a long, dumb tenure with our new GM. I'm not even remotely impressed, this has been a disaster.
I disagree. Friedman has so many parts moving around in various trades and are all contingent on the Mookie deal, how in the world can he reasonably bring all of them to camp later this month with all of their futures in limbo? I think the Dodgers are in a tougher spot than the Red Sox here.

Mookie is "pissed"? Who cares? Has there ever been a player with more to gain/lose in a contract year than Betts? He'll perform regardless of where he plays since he doesn't have a choice. The "moody pitcher" is somehow now more moody? Who could ever tell? The only hold-up is Henry, in which case, Bloom tells him that the deal is suddenly not a good one for 2020 and they wait until the trade deadline when the price might go up even higher.

I'm kind of stunned that people feel like the Sox are in a bind. I think the Dodgers are in a tougher spot.
 

jon abbey

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Okay. Say he does get blow back from the Dodgers fans, all he has to do is splash $400m in front of Mookie in November. Or he can trade for him in July. Or the Dodgers could still win the World Series without Mookie.

Because like VORPSpeed said, "Andrew Friedman has been the best GM in baseball for the last 15 years, has won the NL West every single year he’s been in LA, just signed a huge new contract 2 months ago and is 100% the man running the show. He’s not getting fired."

And if he does get fired, I hope that the Sox boot Bloom out of the front office damn quick and sign Friedman to a long-term extension because that would be the DUMBEST thing that the Los Angeles Dodgers have ever done.
Right, agreed on all of this, and also one of the main reasons he's been so successful is that he hasn't given up prospects like Seager and Buehler and Smith and Lux when other teams have tried to pry them away in recent seasons. Friedman and Cashman are both trying to do something a bit unusual in recent years, building a contender that stays in the top handful of teams in MLB for an extended period of time. This is the same blueprint Bloom would like to follow, and I honestly do think he'll be successful at it if he's allowed a long enough window to build things back up.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I cut off the last part of this because I do still think Bloom could be a perfect fit here if he is given enough time (3-4 years at least) to revamp the system
You might be right (I hope that you're right) but this has been a very, very bad first transaction for Bloom. But from what he got for Mookie, to the checkered past of Verdugo, the arm injury to Brusdar, the "Wait! I want a redo!"; this is kind of embarrassing and it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence right now.
 

teddywingman

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This happens all the time. The Cardinals' Carlos Martinez is a recent example, where the team has moved him back and forth from rotation to bullpen more due to fears about his durability than his ability.

The appeal of Graterol is that he is built like a Mack truck, and at least could (pre-injury) throw devastating 99 mph two-seamers and nasty 91 mph sliders deep into games. He was a very, very good starting pitcher in AA last season as one of the youngest players in his league, even as his third pitch, a changeup, was a work in progress. After his injury, they brought him up, and his 1-2-3 inning in the ALDS against NY was one of the only bright spots for the Twins that postseason. Bottom line: he'd be a good relief pitcher in the American League today.

But if the Sox aren't sure he can shoulder (pun intended) a starter's load after looking at his medicals, then he's merely a guy who can throw 25 99 mph two-seamers and nasty 91 mph sliders. That's still a valuable piece, but not as valuable as a guy who can throw 110 of them. He's no longer the co-centerpiece of a trade for Mookie Betts, even if he might be fine as a third piece.
Would you say that good pitchers with a history of arm issues are successful in the bullpen "all the time", or just more often than not?
 

jon abbey

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You might be right (I hope that you're right) but this has been a very, very bad first transaction for Bloom. But from what he got for Mookie, to the checkered past of Verdugo, the arm injury to Brusdar, the "Wait! I want a redo!"; this is kind of embarrassing and it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence right now.
Yeah, I agree with that, but he will not have his back up against the wall in future transactions either.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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The only hold-up is Henry, in which case, Bloom tells him that the deal is suddenly not a good one for 2020 and they wait until the trade deadline when the price might go up even higher.
"Suddenly not as good", so basically, we pretty much made the deal, THEN did our due diligence and it turns out, it kind of sucks.

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: Then why did you attempt to make that deal in the first place?
Bloom: Uhm, you see. The thing about that is ...
 

nvalvo

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You might be right (I hope that you're right) but this has been a very, very bad first transaction for Bloom. But from what he got for Mookie, to the checkered past of Verdugo, the arm injury to Brusdar, the "Wait! I want a redo!"; this is kind of embarrassing and it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence right now.
As you noted yourself in your post, his bosses put him in a pretty challenging position.
 

bankshot1

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Before plunking down 12/420 (or whatever) for a FA Betts in 2021, Friedman can have the option for the price of another prospect to road test a 2020 Betts to see how it handles LA and see if there is a fit. If we assume LAD will make a $400+ million investment in one player, they can reduce risk and gain a lot of knowledge at a modest cost. And they might be favorites to win their first WS in a long time. IMO the risk in this deal falling apart is not as one-sided as some want to believe.
 

amRadio

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You might be right (I hope that you're right) but this has been a very, very bad first transaction for Bloom. But from what he got for Mookie, to the checkered past of Verdugo, the arm injury to Brusdar, the "Wait! I want a redo!"; this is kind of embarrassing and it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence right now.

This isn't a fair characterization. It isn't a re-do. They got the medicals of a player from another organization at the expected time during the trade process. I don't know exactly what the machinations of a pro-sports trade are. I don't know all the procedures, but it seems like it's been common knowledge among well-versed fans that there is a window in every trade to review medicals. Interesting that this is being characterized as an amateurish blunder by some people when I really see no evidence of that any where. I bet people would also say that it's embarrassing if the Sox accepted the trade of a damaged player.
 

moondog80

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You might be right (I hope that you're right) but this has been a very, very bad first transaction for Bloom. But from what he got for Mookie, to the checkered past of Verdugo, the arm injury to Brusdar, the "Wait! I want a redo!"; this is kind of embarrassing and it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence right now.
It's not a redo. Any deal is contingent on approval of medical reports, which they don't have access to until the deal is agreed upon in principle. They agreed, saw the medicals, saw a red flag, and want to resolve it. How else should it go?

EDIT: Or, what amRadio said.
 
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Scriblerus

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Have any of the teams actually announced the trade? How is Bloom over a barrel if the teams are currently doing their due diligence and through that process discovered the damaged goods?
 

teddywingman

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In this day & age, does anyone think that any of the teams in MLB, let alone the super rich ones, base any of their decisions on public opinion? Does anyone think the howling of sports writers or talk radio affects roster moves?

Really?
Probably not. I just hope John Henry is reading this thread so he knows that the combined $400 that me and my uncle Larry spend on the Red Sox per year are no longer in play.
 
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