Betts/Price to LA for Verdugo/Jeter Downs/TBA

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dan Murfman

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2001
4,253
Pawcatuck
Regarding your scandal comment, I already became some what of a Giant's fan because Dodger fans drive me crazy living in their world. post-scandal they have become intolerable. The most frustrating narrative out of this is Mookie coming to LA is a make up for the Sox cheating them out of the series. Yes, my Dodger fan friends are saying it half joking but i'm hearing it so often from so many people that even the thought of Mookie in pinstripes, beating the Dodgers next fall made me smirk. Something is seriously wrong when the thought of Mookie in pinstripes did anything but give me a panic attack.
Well it’s not just Dodger fans saying this. I caught Dale Arnold this morning spinning this theory.
 
What is he getting at here with “perversion of the salary arbitration process”?
Is he accusing the Dodgers of having ulterior motives in their arbitration proceedings with Pederson—of trying to depress his salary not for the sake of their own payroll, but rather to make him as valuable a piece as possible in their trade with the Angels? Not sure how one would split that hair, frankly.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
No, you're not the only one. Maybe the union always does this, and this just happens to be about a trade involving a much bigger name player so we hear about it. But, the medical discussion hardly seems that unusual.
Possibly due to how close we are to spring training, guys feeling left in limbo, need to tend to personal matters while preparing for the season. Not 100% sure why that might be the case, but that's might be how the union could spin it.
 

BrooklineSoxFan

New Member
Jul 15, 2005
206
Washington, DC
Also important to remember everything from this season onwards (especially after Manfred's comments in November) is seen as a reflection point for the upcoming labor negotiations. Unsurprising the Union would try to take a high-profile deal like this to make a broader point about the commoditization of players. Not agreeing or disagreeing with the stance, but this is going to be increasingly the norm until a new deal is struck.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
25,128
where I was last at
Unfortunately, this equally explains why farmer Friedman might not be as eager to add Boston's apple to his bushel basket as we all assume he is.
Maybe, he has lots of apples, and has had lots of apples for the last several years, bur they seem to spoli to soon, So Farmer Friedman has to estimate the shelf life of his bushel come harvest time and whether it will last a little longer than in the past, and perhaps benefit with the cross polination of (sorry) Macintosh Betts.
 

SoxFanInPdx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
3,272
Portland, OR
Maybe, he has lots of apples, and has had lots of apples for the last several years, bur they seem to spoli to soon, So Farmer Friedman has to estimate the shelf life of his bushel come harvest time and whether it will last a little longer than in the past, and perhaps benefit with the cross polination of (sorry) Macintosh Betts.
Thank you very much, a...Mookie Apple.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,785
The most frustrating narrative out of this is Mookie coming to LA is a make up for the Sox cheating them out of the series. Yes, my Dodger fan friends are saying it half joking but i'm hearing it so often from so many people that even the thought of Mookie in pinstripes, beating the Dodgers next fall made me smirk.
I know, right? It would seriously be the most hilarious thing ever if Mookie won series MVP for beating on the Dodgers’ starters then went to Atlanta and did the same thing in the ‘21 playoffs.
 

Hee Sox Choi

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 27, 2006
6,135
Heyman: Agent Scott Boras: Brusdar Graterol threw “without limitation” and 100 mph in majors for weeks to end 2019 and he has no great medical concern. “They’re relying on a cursory medical record review yet noted orthopedic doctors who saw him say there’s no issue going forward”
 

staz

Intangible
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2004
21,209
The cradle of the game.
Just catching up on the 1,400+ posts here, so apologies if this has been already discussed multiple times, but doesn’t the nature of the medical concerns determine your next move?

For example, if BG’s medicals show more scar tissue than expected, but no current injury, asking for a B prospect seems reasonable.

But if the medicals show evidence of an unhealed injury that wasn’t previously disclosed - one that could lead to surgery for example - I’m not sure how you can even it out with a small piece and hope for the best?
 

amRadio

New Member
Feb 7, 2019
798
Heyman: Agent Scott Boras: Brusdar Graterol threw “without limitation” and 100 mph in majors for weeks to end 2019 and he has no great medical concern. “They’re relying on a cursory medical record review yet noted orthopedic doctors who saw him say there’s no issue going forward”
You'd have to be locked up in Boras's basement developing a whopping case of stockholm syndrome to believe that, but despite that, this makes me want to squeeze the Dodgers for Downs and be done.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
15,071
Gallows Hill
It’s shit or get off the pot time boys. The union is right, these guys have to report in a few days. It’s completely unfair to them to let this drag out. Kill the deal and be done with it.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
4,993
It shouldn't be Minnesota giving us another top 10 prospect. It's not going to happen. Squeeze the Dodgers for one of Downs/Gray/Gonsolin. Add a bullpen piece like Barnes if you have to. It's not like a reliever in arbitration is that valuable to a team that has already made the decision to throw in the towel by trading their best player.
 

Hee Sox Choi

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 27, 2006
6,135
I was happy with this deal when it was 50-grade Alex Verdugo + 55-grade SP Brusdar Graterol. For one year of Mookie and a subsidized Price, I thought it was a solid return of 5 years of control of Verdugo and 6 of Graterol (I was a big fan but assumed he would have the chance to be a starter).

But then I read the Verdugo story and Brusdar's medicals which make it seem like he's just a reliever. I'm now totally fine with walking away from this deal if Friedman or Minnesota is unwilling to put something else into the deal.
 

Hank Scorpio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2013
7,152
Salem, NH
It’s shit or get off the pot time boys. The union is right, these guys have to report in a few days. It’s completely unfair to them to let this drag out. Kill the deal and be done with it.
Agreed. Fuck it.

I want no part of Verdugo at this point, and I just assume 2020 is fucked to begin with. Just walk away.

Maybe the Dodgers panic and up the offer, maybe not. I’m not even sure what I want anymore. Whatever.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
4,683
It shouldn't be Minnesota giving us another top 10 prospect. It's not going to happen. Squeeze the Dodgers for one of Downs/Gray/Gonsolin. Add a bullpen piece like Barnes if you have to. It's not like a reliever in arbitration is that valuable to a team that has already made the decision to throw in the towel by trading their best player.
Downs, Gray or Gonsolin would do the trick of course. But even if it were Caleb Ferguson, whose spin and home run rates we all spent a day dissecting, I think that would suffice.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,828
AZ
Seems like Boras was in part behind the PA’s statement. It makes you wonder where the original leak about the deal came from.

My hunch is that it’s usually the agents. Teams don’t really have much to gain by telling reporters about pending deals before they are done unless the deal isn’t done and they are trying to negotiate through leaks.
 

SoxinSeattle

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 6, 2003
2,386
Here
It’s shit or get off the pot time boys. The union is right, these guys have to report in a few days. It’s completely unfair to them to let this drag out. Kill the deal and be done with it.
No one outside the respective front offices should even know about any of this. Also they are fully grown very rich men. I think they can handle a little inconvenience.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2006
11,674
The Coney Island of my mind
Thank you very much, a...Mookie Apple.
I believe the name you're looking for is a Mookintosh.

I'm sure Friedman would rather have Betts than not, but he's taking on a lot of salary and a potentially bruised second apple for the privilege. For all we know, he might be holding the prospects close in case he needs to get some pitching at the deadline after Price goes the full Dave Dravecky in June.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 14, 2009
9,216
Wiscansin, by way of Attleboro
I'm being petty as hell, but I want Friedman to kick in a quality arm, or I want this to Hindenburg right over the Hollywoo sign.

I realize that the latter is truly cutting off the nose to spite the face in a lot of ways, but I don't care at this point, especially knowing about the health issues of both pieces and Verdugo resembling an asshat.
 

Madmartigan

Member
SoSH Member
May 1, 2012
5,689
I was happy with this deal when it was 50-grade Alex Verdugo + 55-grade SP Brusdar Graterol. For one year of Mookie and a subsidized Price, I thought it was a solid return of 5 years of control of Verdugo and 6 of Graterol (I was a big fan but assumed he would have the chance to be a starter).

But then I read the Verdugo story and Brusdar's medicals which make it seem like he's just a reliever. I'm now totally fine with walking away from this deal if Friedman or Minnesota is unwilling to put something else into the deal.
This is exactly where I’m at. I was bummed about losing Mookie but thought we were getting some promising pieces in return. I’ve totally soured on the deal now and hope they just kill it. Is there any way they can get under the cap while holding Mookie until the deadline?
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
I'm being petty as hell, but I want Friedman to kick in a quality arm, or I want this to Hindenburg right over the Hollywoo sign.

I realize that the latter is truly cutting off the nose to spite the face in a lot of ways, but I don't care at this point, especially knowing about the health issues of both pieces and Verdugo resembling an asshat.
I think I'm kind of in the same, "I just want to watch the world burn" mindset as well. Screw everyone involved in this deal on all three teams.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
25,297
Agreed. Fuck it.

I want no part of Verdugo at this point, and I just assume 2020 is fucked to begin with. Just walk away.

Maybe the Dodgers panic and up the offer, maybe not. I’m not even sure what I want anymore. Whatever.
If they don't get under the threshold, it's not 2020 that's the problem. It's 2021 (when Mookie becomes a FA) and beyond that's the problem.
 

Hank Scorpio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2013
7,152
Salem, NH
No matter how many times this has been explained, some folks don't get it. Strange.
I get it.

But I’m admittedly bitter and petty over it. I don’t want this trade to happen. I never wanted this trade to happen. And I hope this trade completely falls apart. I hate this trade and might stop following baseball because of it.
 
I get it.

But I’m admittedly bitter and petty over it. I don’t want this trade to happen. I never wanted this trade to happen. And I hope this trade completely falls apart. I hate this trade and might stop following baseball because of it.
Likewise. After spending many weeks convincing myself that the trade was unavoidable, I now believe that ownership should bite the bullet and sign Mookie to the deal he wants. If the contract is an albatross during the last few years, so be it. Mookie is a generational talent, a joy to watch, and a thoroughly decent, community-minded citizen. He is, and should continue to be, the face of the franchise.

From my mouth to John Henry's ears.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,185
Westwood MA
San Diego was not interested in David Price. I'm sure his name came up (from Bloom), but the Padres don't really have the budget for Betts and Price. They were looking to snag a year of Mookie to make a playoff run without giving up any of their top prospects.

The Sox were looking at trading Mookie to SD for prospects and Price elsewhere while covering much of his contract. Once the Dodgers came in and said they'd take both, plus give the Sox two prospects, the Padres couldn't really compete.
"The Padres couldn't really compete"; yup, pretty much every year of their existence.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2006
11,674
The Coney Island of my mind
Likewise. After spending many weeks convincing myself that the trade was unavoidable, I now believe that ownership should bite the bullet and sign Mookie to the deal he wants. If the contract is an albatross during the last few years, so be it. Mookie is a generational talent, a joy to watch, and a thoroughly decent, community-minded citizen. He is, and should continue to be, the face of the franchise.

From my mouth to John Henry's ears.
His contract won't be an albatross in a few years, it will be an albatross immediately (unless JH has a psychotic break and decides his only reason for existing is to pour his wealth into the Red Sox, LT be damned). If you live in the Reality Based Universe and would like Mookie to be the face of the franchise into the '20s, trading him now isn't an option, it's essential.
 
His contract won't be an albatross in a few years, it will be an albatross immediately (unless JH has a psychotic break and decides his only reason for existing is to pour his wealth into the Red Sox, LT be damned). If you live in the Reality Based Universe and would like Mookie to be the face of the franchise into the '20s, trading him now isn't an option, it's essential.
In the Reality Based Universe, the year 2020 and its attendant payroll were always quite visibly on the horizon. The fact that DD signed Sale and Eovaldi to their respective contracts was a clear denial of that fact.

But you don't trade Mookie Betts because you've been incompetent about planning for the future. You task your creative young GM with figuring out some other way to get yourself under the luxury tax. Did the Red Sox really explore all of their other options? All of this talk about the LA deal being "cleaner" than the SD deal makes me wonder about that.

To subsidize and move some combination of Sale, Price, Eovaldi, and J.D. Martinez would definitely not be "clean." And it wouldn't net the Red Sox players like Verdugo and [50 FV Prospect to be Named Later]. It wouldn't help them build a nucleus of cost-controlled 4 WAR players. Bloom would have to devise other moves to do that. They hired him to do smart shit, right? When you have monster resources, trading Mookie (just like the Rays like to trade all of their pending FAs) is maybe not so smart.

This approach would make the Red Sox significantly less competitive in 2020, obviously, but next offseason, they'd be under the tax and free to spend again. And they'd still have Mookie Betts to build around.

W/r/t your point about trading Mookie now to re-sign him later, I could be wrong about this--just like I could be wrong about lots of what I've written here--and you could be right, but I think once Mookie is gone, he's gone.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,785
If you live in the Reality Based Universe and would like Mookie to be the face of the franchise into the '20s, trading him now isn't an option, it's essential.
Mookie is not going to be the face of the Red Sox this decade, you need to accept that. That decision was made when they handed out $213 million to Eovaldi and Sale last winter. Even with a one year re-set the exact same problem repeats itself if you re-sign him. When he’s traded he’s gone. They will certainly participate in the bidding, prudent marketing demands that much. But they’re going to bow out as he signs his mega deal elsewhere.

All you want now is the most talent you can possibly get as you try to rebuild a stripped farm system so that they can build a team around a handful of anchor deals and low-priced talent everywhere else.
 

Hee Sox Choi

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 27, 2006
6,135
Websites: Brusdar vs. Balazovic
ProspectsLive: 60/50 / 55/45
BP: (OFP) 70 #2orClsr / 55 (3/4 starter)
FG: 50 / 50
 

amRadio

New Member
Feb 7, 2019
798
I think the 60 successful innings Graterol had in the upper minors makes him a touch more valuable than Balazovic. I'm not sure what to make of that. On the surface, Balazovic looks like a good prospect.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2006
11,674
The Coney Island of my mind
Mookie is not going to be the face of the Red Sox this decade, you need to accept that. That decision was made when they handed out $213 million to Eovaldi and Sale last winter. Even with a one year re-set the exact same problem repeats itself if you re-sign him. When he’s traded he’s gone. They will certainly participate in the bidding, prudent marketing demands that much. But they’re going to bow out as he signs his mega deal elsewhere.

All you want now is the most talent you can possibly get as you try to rebuild a stripped farm system so that they can build a team around a handful of anchor deals and low-priced talent everywhere else.
Oh, I don't think there's a chance in hell they get him back. But if your choices are "slim" and "none," you should probably go with "slim." But I'm not sure what you mean w/the bolded. If the the team is reckless enough to sign him for 12/420 a year from now, at least it's not de facto 12/630.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2006
11,674
The Coney Island of my mind
In the Reality Based Universe, the year 2020 and its attendant payroll were always quite visibly on the horizon. The fact that DD signed Sale and Eovaldi to their respective contracts was a clear denial of that fact.

But you don't trade Mookie Betts because you've been incompetent about planning for the future. You task your creative young GM with figuring out some other way to get yourself under the luxury tax. Did the Red Sox really explore all of their other options? All of this talk about the LA deal being "cleaner" than the SD deal makes me wonder about that.
Alas, the creative young GM cannot spin gold from straw. Math is math. I'm guessing they took a few minutes to explore the pros and cons of resetting now v. 2021, and looking at how it would need to be done in either year.

I'm not much about blindly believing in the brain trust, but the idea that they didn't think to explore other options before offloading their homegrown superstar is...unlikely.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
8,181
Boston, MA
It’s shit or get off the pot time boys. The union is right, these guys have to report in a few days. It’s completely unfair to them to let this drag out. Kill the deal and be done with it.
Are in season trades no longer allowed? A huge number of players spend the entire month of July not knowing where they're going to play the next day. Having to wait to find out whether you're reporting to Florida or Arizona for a month and a half isn't nearly as big a deal.

This is exactly where I’m at. I was bummed about losing Mookie but thought we were getting some promising pieces in return. I’ve totally soured on the deal now and hope they just kill it. Is there any way they can get under the cap while holding Mookie until the deadline?
They could trade a half priced Price to the Twins for a bag of balls and put JD on waivers to see if anyone takes his contract.
 

wibi

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,873
They could trade a half priced Price to the Twins for a bag of balls and put JD on waivers to see if anyone takes his contract.
If Chaim could have moved Price at half price for anything he would have done it by now.
 

pjr

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
780
Quincy,MA

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
21,626
View: https://twitter.com/danhayesmlb/status/1225973653805903873?s=21


That kinda reenforces the Red Sox stance imo. Twins are saying “Oh no we wouldn’t give you the #4 ranked guy who’s pitched at lower level, you can have the 3# ranked guy who’s pitched in the majors”

That doesn’t add up at all and just really makes it clear that something is truly up with his medicals.
Looks bad on the Sox. Take our shit to save yourselves money. Fuck that...
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 22, 2008
36,398
They could trade a half priced Price to the Twins for a bag of balls and put JD on waivers to see if anyone takes his contract.
My assumption is that the Dodgers were the only team willing to take Price without a much larger subsidy. The Twins might be willing to give a different prospect to land Maeda, but they won’t take Price at anything close to 3/45.

JDM on waivers is an interesting idea. He probably goes unclaimed, but you never know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.