Up 5 headed into the <shudder> third quarter. Through three games, the Celtics were +9 overall but -43 in the third quarter.
Ten first half turnovers, which is too many.
Ten first half turnovers, which is too many.
Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals
- Thread starter Devizier
- Start date
Omce again, the Celtics choke. After hanging in there and playing their best third quarter of the playoffs, then pulling back ahead in the 4th, GS just shut down their offense - helped by lots of poor decision making by the Celtics and controled the glass on both ends.
The Celtics are the more talented team, the Warriors are the team that plays clearner ball and trusts its system exucutes with the game on the line. And this time, they did not wear down in the end.
The Celtics can rebound after experiencing adversity, but they aren't great with adversity in the moment, at least not in 4th quarters.
This looks to me like a series that Golden State will win in 7. I don't see them taking 3 straght from the Celtics, but the Celtics chance to win this series was to pull away. If this is a closely fought series all the way through, the Celtics will decide it with their mistakes and poor execution. Turnovers, faulire to rebound, poor decisions in the offensive end when the game is on the line. In the end, the rap that they struggle down the stretch in close games is a real one. Tatum and Brown were nowhere to be found as Golden States was pullng away n this one.
This was a winnable game. If they do lose, tonight is where they lost it.
With 6:45 to go, the Celtic had a 5 point lead, 91-86. Golden State outsocred them 21-6 the rest of the way.
With 5:18 to go, Smart hit a three that put them up 94-90. Golden State outscored them 17-3 the rest of the way.
This was the first half Celtics, prone to mnutes long stretches with no offense.
Their offensive possessions late n the 4th were almost all one missed shot, while the Warriors got a shitload of second chances.
Tatum had a 3 point 4th quarter. Brown had 5. Only 19 points for the Celtics as a team in the 4th.
The Celtics are the more talented team, the Warriors are the team that plays clearner ball and trusts its system exucutes with the game on the line. And this time, they did not wear down in the end.
The Celtics can rebound after experiencing adversity, but they aren't great with adversity in the moment, at least not in 4th quarters.
This looks to me like a series that Golden State will win in 7. I don't see them taking 3 straght from the Celtics, but the Celtics chance to win this series was to pull away. If this is a closely fought series all the way through, the Celtics will decide it with their mistakes and poor execution. Turnovers, faulire to rebound, poor decisions in the offensive end when the game is on the line. In the end, the rap that they struggle down the stretch in close games is a real one. Tatum and Brown were nowhere to be found as Golden States was pullng away n this one.
This was a winnable game. If they do lose, tonight is where they lost it.
With 6:45 to go, the Celtic had a 5 point lead, 91-86. Golden State outsocred them 21-6 the rest of the way.
With 5:18 to go, Smart hit a three that put them up 94-90. Golden State outscored them 17-3 the rest of the way.
This was the first half Celtics, prone to mnutes long stretches with no offense.
Their offensive possessions late n the 4th were almost all one missed shot, while the Warriors got a shitload of second chances.
Tatum had a 3 point 4th quarter. Brown had 5. Only 19 points for the Celtics as a team in the 4th.
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So one thing I think was a mistake.
Ime should have pulled Tatum when he was taking those tired jumpers. Run a bit of Jaylen and the bench to attack, then bring in Tatum rested at 5 minutes and give Jaylen 1-2 minutes and have both fresh to close.
Ime should have pulled Tatum when he was taking those tired jumpers. Run a bit of Jaylen and the bench to attack, then bring in Tatum rested at 5 minutes and give Jaylen 1-2 minutes and have both fresh to close.
Just awful offence down the stretch. Shied away from contact to make thge tough finish and ended up with White and Marcus taking shots with game on the line.
It may not be over since Curry was going off and the Cs seem to have it.
It may not be over since Curry was going off and the Cs seem to have it.
After the C's went up 91-86, they went ice cold - 8 shots taken (and a 9th blocked), and they hit 2 of them. That's it - that's the game:
7:32 Marcus Smart makes free throw 1 of 1 86 91
6:46 Jayson Tatum misses 23-foot two point shot 86 91
6:45 Celtics offensive team rebound 86 91
6:45 shot clock turnover 86 91 <-- Tatum airball
6:09 Jayson Tatum misses layup 88 91
5:23 Kevon Looney blocks Marcus Smart 's 6-foot layup 90 91
5:21 Jayson Tatum offensive rebound 90 91
5:18 Marcus Smart makes 28-foot three point jumper (Jayson Tatum assists) 90 94
4:36 Jaylen Brown misses 13-foot pullup jump shot 92 94
4:12 Jaylen Brown misses 26-foot three point jumper 95 94
3:41 Celtics Full timeout 97 94
3:28 Jayson Tatum misses 28-foot three point jumper 97 94
2:45 Marcus Smart misses 25-foot three point jumper 97 94
1:55 Al Horford misses 27-foot three point jumper 97 94
1:42 Celtics Full timeout 100 94
By and large, the looks weren't terrible, but the Celtics couldn't get them to go down. Yes, Big Al got one more 3 to cut the lead back to 3 after the sequence I cited, but that's nearly 6 minutes to score 3 points.
7:32 Marcus Smart makes free throw 1 of 1 86 91
6:46 Jayson Tatum misses 23-foot two point shot 86 91
6:45 Celtics offensive team rebound 86 91
6:45 shot clock turnover 86 91 <-- Tatum airball
6:09 Jayson Tatum misses layup 88 91
5:23 Kevon Looney blocks Marcus Smart 's 6-foot layup 90 91
5:21 Jayson Tatum offensive rebound 90 91
5:18 Marcus Smart makes 28-foot three point jumper (Jayson Tatum assists) 90 94
4:36 Jaylen Brown misses 13-foot pullup jump shot 92 94
4:12 Jaylen Brown misses 26-foot three point jumper 95 94
3:41 Celtics Full timeout 97 94
3:28 Jayson Tatum misses 28-foot three point jumper 97 94
2:45 Marcus Smart misses 25-foot three point jumper 97 94
1:55 Al Horford misses 27-foot three point jumper 97 94
1:42 Celtics Full timeout 100 94
By and large, the looks weren't terrible, but the Celtics couldn't get them to go down. Yes, Big Al got one more 3 to cut the lead back to 3 after the sequence I cited, but that's nearly 6 minutes to score 3 points.
We have been prone all year to horrible stretches of offense when the shots aren’t falling. It’s hard to guard Curry and he can make even when you do it well but we have to play good enough defense that we can go cold for 5-7 minutes and survive it. Tonight it just came at an awful time
They didn't attack the basket; not they were getting many calls in the lane. Live by the 3, die by the 3.
Horford struggled in ths game, at both ends, and that might have led Ime to dial Rob's minutes up to 31. Rob was limping when he came off, and, worse than that, he wasn't impacting the game the same way n the 4th as he has at other times.
Rob also had some very good moments in this game, but also got to scrambling around on defense, leading to the Celtics getting burned by Rob's man getting either a bucket or a rebound.
If Rob is not ready to go/less effective in game 5, this could go down as a big coaching error.
Rob also had some very good moments in this game, but also got to scrambling around on defense, leading to the Celtics getting burned by Rob's man getting either a bucket or a rebound.
If Rob is not ready to go/less effective in game 5, this could go down as a big coaching error.
And Wiggins and Looney were great. They can 't play like that in Game 5. Our guys have step up big.
As much as it’s critical to find a scapegoat when something goes wrong, I’m not sure Ime has any better options. Rob Williams injury, and Tatum’s likely injury, would be difficult to manage even for a coach like Spoelstra or Kerr.
They were all open though, and they weren’t having any success inside nor were they getting foul calls. Two of those threes go in an it goes right down to the wire. Make or miss league.
Too many turnovers, too many offensive rebounds. Like 5-7 pretty damn bad ones too. I still feel like they have the overall better run of the series tbh, but can't be as sloppy as they were tonight.
Team has answered the bell every time they've been punched this postseason. No reason to think they can't go into golden state and win game 5. Win the possession game, win the series.
Team has answered the bell every time they've been punched this postseason. No reason to think they can't go into golden state and win game 5. Win the possession game, win the series.
Tatum is now shooting .341 for the series (28 for 82). I don't know if it's his shoulder, if he's tight, or if the Warriors have figured something out but regardless this is a deep, deep slump. He's doing everything else well (and he's still shooting .451 from 3) so he's not exactly killing the Celtics, but it would be awfully nice if he could have even an average shooting game.
*edit - the celtics had a 4 point lead with 5:18 to play, and they scored 3 points the rest of the game. Not that the shots they took were awful, but with the 3 not falling and them not getting the calls at the rim, the stretch run should've been Tatum in the midrange. He just hasn't been able to hit any of them in this series. By my count, he's now 2-14 on 2 point shots outside of the paint through 4 games.
*edit - the celtics had a 4 point lead with 5:18 to play, and they scored 3 points the rest of the game. Not that the shots they took were awful, but with the 3 not falling and them not getting the calls at the rim, the stretch run should've been Tatum in the midrange. He just hasn't been able to hit any of them in this series. By my count, he's now 2-14 on 2 point shots outside of the paint through 4 games.
We’ve said “Can’t be sloppy again“ a dozen times this playoff run. They’re a sloppy team. It doesn’t mean they still can’t win, but I’m expecting the usual 12-14 turnovers in Game 5.
Thank god he has been good from deep or he’d be getting utterly destroyed on this board and in the media. I have to assume his shoulder is torqued up because he is not nearly as bad a finisher as he has shown in this series, especially going against an undersized team with limited rim protection. He threw up a bunch of non competitive shots at the rim tonight that he was making consistently all year before he got hurt.
Tatum is shooting over basically everyone that guards him other than Wiggins. This is him and/or the shoulder.
If the Celtics do lose the series and he shots <35%, he will be killed regardless of how he does from 3.
He’s at ~27% from two so far this series. That’s unfathomably bad if he’s healthy, which is why I strongly believe he’s more hurt than he’s letting on.
I didn't think much of it until this series. I honestly think he's playing through something, and if so, it's almost certainly his shoulder. Not only is he less accurate, but he seems to be more tentative in spots. Shoulder injuries suck.
It's possible that he was re-injured early this series.. there was something in the GS games where he was testing his shoulder as well.
Regardless of how this series goes.. I look forward to this team next year. Tatum and Brown aren't even close to their prime mid 20s.. and they've been great going into them. There's a lot to look forward to.
How many two’s has Tatum had without multiple defenders draped all over him? He’s being asked to be our defacto PG for most of the game now as well and I’m sure that is taking its toll as well. He’s doing it all for us this series and some turnovers are going to come with this new role due to the high usage.
3 game series now with Steph Curry going supernova from 3 this entire series. Maybe face guarding him the entire length of the floor would help? there doesn't seem to be a defensive answer for the guy.
He's bending an excellent Celtic defense, on a bad ankle, it's incredibly impressive.
He's bending an excellent Celtic defense, on a bad ankle, it's incredibly impressive.
Actually it is very easy to second guess. Rob will either be fine going forward or Ime chose to blow up a player he needs to win in a non-elimnation game.
Credit where credit is due: the Warriors, and especially Curry, played like absolute champions last night.
Thankfully the series isn’t over. But Curry was otherworldly.
Edit: and while we all thought that the Celtics could wear down Curry and the Warriors and win the 4th in a close game… Curry simply did not fade last night. Despite tweaking his ankle in game 3, and only one day between games. Just a superhuman effort last night. I remain in awe.
Thankfully the series isn’t over. But Curry was otherworldly.
Edit: and while we all thought that the Celtics could wear down Curry and the Warriors and win the 4th in a close game… Curry simply did not fade last night. Despite tweaking his ankle in game 3, and only one day between games. Just a superhuman effort last night. I remain in awe.
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Well as of now, in a 2-2 series, there is one, and only one, clear-cut series MVP, and it's Steph Curry.
G1: 12-25 (7-14), 34 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists
G2: 9-21 (5-12), 29 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists
G3: 12-22 (6-11), 31 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists
G4: 14-26 (7-14), 43 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists
TOT: 47-94 (.500), 25-51 (.490), 137 points (34.3), 25 rebounds (6.3), 15 assists (3.8)
Plus he's been sturdy on defense, and despite playing against the best defense in the NBA, only has 12 turnovers (compared with, say, 14 for Tatum). 12 isn't GREAT, but it isn't bad under the circumstances.
I mean, those last two games by Steph are pretty awesome. .542 from the floor, .520 from three, 37 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists per game? That'll get it done.
But despite all that, it's 2-2 and Boston still hasn't lost back-to-back games in the playoffs. So while I'm expecting GS's crowd to be bonkers on Monday, I also expect Boston to play well. They're not losing the next two games in a row, so at worst for Boston, it's going seven.
G1: 12-25 (7-14), 34 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists
G2: 9-21 (5-12), 29 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists
G3: 12-22 (6-11), 31 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists
G4: 14-26 (7-14), 43 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists
TOT: 47-94 (.500), 25-51 (.490), 137 points (34.3), 25 rebounds (6.3), 15 assists (3.8)
Plus he's been sturdy on defense, and despite playing against the best defense in the NBA, only has 12 turnovers (compared with, say, 14 for Tatum). 12 isn't GREAT, but it isn't bad under the circumstances.
I mean, those last two games by Steph are pretty awesome. .542 from the floor, .520 from three, 37 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists per game? That'll get it done.
But despite all that, it's 2-2 and Boston still hasn't lost back-to-back games in the playoffs. So while I'm expecting GS's crowd to be bonkers on Monday, I also expect Boston to play well. They're not losing the next two games in a row, so at worst for Boston, it's going seven.
Steph has clearly adjusted to the Celtics strategy of making him "work for his pointz". Tatum, OTOH, is having a much tougher time of it against the Warriors' defenders. It will be interesting to see the adjustments to be made for the now best-of-3 series.
Obviously Steph is the greatest shooter ever. But when people talk about top-10 this or top-5 that, it's that consistency and ability to take over that stands out to me. Those brilliant numbers already posted by Steph, the numbers posted by Giannis, etc. When people ask if JT is top-whatever, it's hard for me to say yes because of the lack of a consistent killer instinct. Doesn't mean JT isn't a stud, he absolutely is of course and well-deserving of his awards. But he's rarely gone nova and has outright disappeared at times. It's maddening. But he's still so young so I have no doubts he'll become the assassin the team needs him to be. Hopefully starting in the next two games.
No real point to this, just a ramble after watching Curry post his usual type of line yet again.
No real point to this, just a ramble after watching Curry post his usual type of line yet again.
This series has a remarkable consistency about it. The Warriors have scored 108, 107, 100, and 107 points so far, with the bulk of the scoring coming from Steph, Wiggins, Klay, and Poole. The Celtics are consistent with their 3-point shooting (40-37% outside of Game 1, where they shot 51%). The difference has been the 2-point shooting: in their two wins they shot 50% or better inside, in their two losses they shot 34% and 40% respectively. When they play well they get better scoring opportunities inside and consequently score more points there. When they don’t score inside it puts pressure on the rest of their game and they struggle.
I thought that the Cs were a better but one of the things that JVG said worries me. JT, JB, and Marcus are all much better when they are going to their right than left. After JVG pointed this out, it did look like GSW was making a concerted effort to prevent this. I didn't watch for this in the other series but if GSW has figured out a way to take this away from JB and JT especially, it would explain BOS's putrid shooting from 2P land. I hope so e twitter poster picks up on this and tries to break it down.
I mean wouldn’t this be true for any right handed player? One can work and improve their off hand,still won’t be as favored / good as their right.
Steve Jones Jr. breakdown of the game below. Some article pointed out that the Cs cutting in G2 brought an extra defender in the paint so there was less cutting in G3. Well this game shows the downside of that in that there was a lot of standing around off-ball, which means a lot of ISO ball.
GSW has really packed in its defense (compare it to BOS's defense which is way out to defend the 3P). The pattern has been that BOS has success; GSW adjusts; BOS needs a game to figure it out; GSW adjusts again. Let's hope the Cs can find another counter.
View: https://twitter.com/stevejones20/status/1535423899516686338
GSW has really packed in its defense (compare it to BOS's defense which is way out to defend the 3P). The pattern has been that BOS has success; GSW adjusts; BOS needs a game to figure it out; GSW adjusts again. Let's hope the Cs can find another counter.
View: https://twitter.com/stevejones20/status/1535423899516686338
Yes but the question is how much worse it is. If GSW can take away the drives by loading up on JT's + JB's right hand, can they figure out a counter that enables the team to have more success when driving?
In some ways, the only adjustment the Celtics need is to make more open shots. They had plenty of them last night (it seemed to me, anyway). But they missed a ton. In the last furious couple of minutes they got a bunch of wide open looks and bricked them all except for one from Al. They make one or two of those and it's a different game.
Disagree strongly with this. Lots and lots and lots of standing around watching other guys play, esepcially in the 4th. It was the December Celtics.
The Celtcs had three defensive rebounds in the fourth quarter. Three. Golden State had 6 offensive rebounds. That's a horrific ratio and a big part of the reason why the Celtics gave up 29 points in the quarter. Brown led the team in shots and points in the 4th, but after the 7 minute mark he only had 2 attempts, both misses. One one of his bricked open threes, Smart could have driven and dished to Brown in the corner - or tried to score inside Brown's man stayed with him.
The December Celtics were a mediocre underachievng team. That team isn't even reaching much less winning the finals. Playing the way they did in December is basically the equivalent of conceding the series.
Can Ime get some sense into them between now and Monday? He has up to now.
Obviously there’s a lot of things they could do better than they did last night. My point is simply that if they played the same game but hit just a couple of open threes in that last stretch, it’s quite likely a different outcome.
Yes... but if they hit a couple more 3s then they are shooting ~45% from 3 and that's not really sustainable or expected. On a whole 3pt accuracy wasn't their problem (40% last night)
It was the normal culprits: 15 turnovers, -13 on the boards, stagnant offense, and containing a smoking hot, magnet in Steph Curry.
Presumably the stinger/nerve issue is still bugging him since he has been grabbing his shoulder occasionally all series.
Wouldn't be surprised if something like that is messing with his shooting touch. Not a great injury for a basketball player.
Apparently around G3 he was seen working on it with resistance bands - it seems pretty obvious that he isn't right physically which makes sense.
Meanwhile, after all Tatum and this team have done, you still get people questioning his alphaness and desire to win. This is despite the fact that anyone watching these games can see opposing defenses are picking him up early and loading up against him overall.
If not being as good a shooter as Steph Curry makes people losers and chokers, the league is chock a block full of them.
But you can‘t really say “hey, they were due to miss based on how well they shot up until that point.” That’s classic Gambler’s Fallacy illogic. The fact is that the Celtics missed some open threes down the stretch that they usually make in those situations and Curry hit heavily contested shots that almost nobody ever makes at that rate.
I still like our chances in this series because the Celtics are the better team.
Last night Tatum was 8-23 from the floor, 4-8 from three, 11 boards, 6 assists and 6 turnovers.
I don't think last night was his worst playoff game this season. He was worse in G3 from both the Milwaukee and Miami series.
MIL G3 4-19 from the floor, 0-6 from three, 1 board, 3 assists, 3 turnovers
MIA G3 3-14 from the floor, 1-7 from three, 6 board, 4 assists, 6 turnovers
He bounced back after each of those performances and I expect him to be better in Game 5 of the Finals as well but I am increasingly concerned that he is carrying too much of the load (he is the de facto point forward) and that he is hurt. He just has to hang in there for a few more games. Hope he has enough left in the tank to do so.
I don't think last night was his worst playoff game this season. He was worse in G3 from both the Milwaukee and Miami series.
MIL G3 4-19 from the floor, 0-6 from three, 1 board, 3 assists, 3 turnovers
MIA G3 3-14 from the floor, 1-7 from three, 6 board, 4 assists, 6 turnovers
He bounced back after each of those performances and I expect him to be better in Game 5 of the Finals as well but I am increasingly concerned that he is carrying too much of the load (he is the de facto point forward) and that he is hurt. He just has to hang in there for a few more games. Hope he has enough left in the tank to do so.
Golden State has good players, too. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap to the other team. Curry had quite a few amazing shots that went in. The turnovers were frustrating, of course - but GS had bad turnovers, too.
Marcus had some clearly big shots, but I thought at times he had some real blunders, too. Early in the game, it looked to me like there were times he was only lightly jogging back on defense - so much so that I was concerned he had hurt himself or something - but I don't think that was the case.
I think one of the weaknesses of the team is that when things are going well, they seem to play like winning is inevitable. That if they just relax and go iso or take 3P after one pass they will win going away. This is the Finals, however, and they need to keep working hard for 48 minutes to pull out a win against the best of the best.
Grant just continues to be pretty worthless out there. 4 Fouls and 3 points in 13 minutes.
Marcus had some clearly big shots, but I thought at times he had some real blunders, too. Early in the game, it looked to me like there were times he was only lightly jogging back on defense - so much so that I was concerned he had hurt himself or something - but I don't think that was the case.
I think one of the weaknesses of the team is that when things are going well, they seem to play like winning is inevitable. That if they just relax and go iso or take 3P after one pass they will win going away. This is the Finals, however, and they need to keep working hard for 48 minutes to pull out a win against the best of the best.
Grant just continues to be pretty worthless out there. 4 Fouls and 3 points in 13 minutes.