drleather2001 said:
OK, so much for the notion that he doesn't 100% think he was released because of his activism.
Chris Kluwe - "I was fired by 2 cowards and a bigot"
- Thread starter The Napkin
- Start date
OK, so much for the notion that he doesn't 100% think he was released because of his activism.
1. If half of what Kluwe said was true, I 100% agree Priefer should be fired and never work in coaching again (not just NFL; it's even worse if this bigot is coaching high school somewhere).
2. That said, Chris Kluwe isn't exactly Rosa Parks. Here's the original article he wrote: http://deadspin.com/5941348/they-wont-magically-turn-you-into-a-lustful-cockmonster-chris-kluwe-explains-gay-marriage-to-the-politician-who-is-offended-by-an-nfl-player-supporting-it. I agree with Kluwe's stance on gay marriage 100%, but I don't think I'd want the person who penned that letter as an employee or a co-worker. Is he going to be respectful to authority, or civil to co-workers he disagrees with? I have no problem with political activism, but you can be a political activist without coming off like Kluwe did.
3. Kluwe makes the point in the interview linked to above that he put up the same #s in 2012 that he did in 2007. That's true, but in 2007 his 44.7 average was good for 8th in the league and the league average was 43.4. In 2012, Kluwe had a 45.0 average, but the league average had jumped to 45.5, so his average ranked 20th. I don't understand why punting has improved so dramatically over the last decade, but it has. Kluwe's right that he's basically the same punter he's always been, but that doesn't mean the Vikings were wrong to think that was inadequate.
2. That said, Chris Kluwe isn't exactly Rosa Parks. Here's the original article he wrote: http://deadspin.com/5941348/they-wont-magically-turn-you-into-a-lustful-cockmonster-chris-kluwe-explains-gay-marriage-to-the-politician-who-is-offended-by-an-nfl-player-supporting-it. I agree with Kluwe's stance on gay marriage 100%, but I don't think I'd want the person who penned that letter as an employee or a co-worker. Is he going to be respectful to authority, or civil to co-workers he disagrees with? I have no problem with political activism, but you can be a political activist without coming off like Kluwe did.
3. Kluwe makes the point in the interview linked to above that he put up the same #s in 2012 that he did in 2007. That's true, but in 2007 his 44.7 average was good for 8th in the league and the league average was 43.4. In 2012, Kluwe had a 45.0 average, but the league average had jumped to 45.5, so his average ranked 20th. I don't understand why punting has improved so dramatically over the last decade, but it has. Kluwe's right that he's basically the same punter he's always been, but that doesn't mean the Vikings were wrong to think that was inadequate.
I have no problem with Kluwe sounding the alarm on this. It does bother me a little bit that he's basically created an ultimatum for the team of, "fire Priefer or I might sue".
He also does come across like a petty dick.
When Pelissero says that trying to fuck with Priefer's life seems petty, Kluwe retorts "Who's no longer punting in the NFL?" He then goes on to say, "That's the whole point: Actions have consequences. If I was allowed to do my job, if I was allowed to finish out my contract –" at which point he trails off and talks about something else.
So, if he was allowed to finish his contract, would he not have blown the whistle on Priefer? Because that certainly sounds like the path he was going down before thinking better of it. He talks about holding people accountable for their actions, but is still pretty clearly pissed off that he's not punting because of his activism. Is it unfair? Yes. But this is the path he decided to take.
He then talks about how he'll never punt in the NFL because of his activism, but seems to ignore the fact that teams (Chicago, Oakland to name two) brought him in after he was cut by the Vikings and he was cut because he's just not that good.
None of this is to imply, by the way, that Kluwe's cause isn't just and that someone like Preifer can go fuck himself. Preifer is just as disposable as Kluwe, and Kluwe knows it. Hell, he even admits that, "There's definitely a hierarchy there, where some people are held more accountable than others." It seems to me like Kluwe and Preifer didn't get along (the tweets by Kluwe, the "He don't listen" comments by Preifer, etc.), and because of that, Kluwe is launching him under the bus. I assume that Kluwe heard equally insensitive shit in the locker room, but there's a reason that Preifer is the focus of his ire.
He also does come across like a petty dick.
When Pelissero says that trying to fuck with Priefer's life seems petty, Kluwe retorts "Who's no longer punting in the NFL?" He then goes on to say, "That's the whole point: Actions have consequences. If I was allowed to do my job, if I was allowed to finish out my contract –" at which point he trails off and talks about something else.
So, if he was allowed to finish his contract, would he not have blown the whistle on Priefer? Because that certainly sounds like the path he was going down before thinking better of it. He talks about holding people accountable for their actions, but is still pretty clearly pissed off that he's not punting because of his activism. Is it unfair? Yes. But this is the path he decided to take.
He then talks about how he'll never punt in the NFL because of his activism, but seems to ignore the fact that teams (Chicago, Oakland to name two) brought him in after he was cut by the Vikings and he was cut because he's just not that good.
None of this is to imply, by the way, that Kluwe's cause isn't just and that someone like Preifer can go fuck himself. Preifer is just as disposable as Kluwe, and Kluwe knows it. Hell, he even admits that, "There's definitely a hierarchy there, where some people are held more accountable than others." It seems to me like Kluwe and Preifer didn't get along (the tweets by Kluwe, the "He don't listen" comments by Preifer, etc.), and because of that, Kluwe is launching him under the bus. I assume that Kluwe heard equally insensitive shit in the locker room, but there's a reason that Preifer is the focus of his ire.
Wow. I lost a lot of respect for Kluwe in that USA Today interview. I wasn't really buying the "this guy is arrogant" commentary that some people were making, but I absolutely believe it now. Guy came off as a completely self righteous entitled asshat in that interview.
ZP1 said:
He's been coming off like that the entire time. His cause is quite just but his narcissism does seem to shine through in most of what he says. So is he doing it for the cause or is he using the cause to promote himself? It's hard to tell.
johnmd20 said:
I suspect he likes the cause but like a college freshman who's really, really, really into politics for the first time ever he also digs being political and stuff. All of the sudden all these important people are saying nice things about him and he's showing the world he's more than just a meathad punter and that's he's part of a new cool crew and that he's smart because he has the right ideas.
Shelterdog said:
This isn't a bad description of the arc the quality of many posters take as they become members--solid, get good feedback and quality deteriorates with inflated sense of self, and then calming back down and settling into a better rhythm.
Humans are pretty simple creatures in a lot of ways.
I think Kluwe may well be a petty, narcissist, disruptive douchebag beyond the human median that I wouldn't want to spend any time with. It'd be really dumb if I let that opinion control whether or not I thought he was credible.
1) Person A says X
2) Person A has negative personality trait Y
3) A logical hypothetical relationship can be constructed between X and Y
4) Therefore, X is untrue
rinse and repeat
2) Person A has negative personality trait Y
3) A logical hypothetical relationship can be constructed between X and Y
4) Therefore, X is untrue
rinse and repeat
maufman said:
I think it's slightly offensive to put Kluwe (who believes that people should not be discriminated against because of something they can't change) and Tebow (who believes the world is 6,000 years old) in the same category.
mt8thsw9th said:
It's quite a bit more offensive to treat someone badly based on their religion than their political views.
Should we throw Muslims out of the NFL? Or should they only be allowed to keep their job if they're as good as Ahmad Rashad was?
I think it's slightly offensive to put Kluwe (who believes that people should not be discriminated against because of something they can't change) and Tebow (who believes the world is 6,000 years old) in the same category.
Those two singular things fully define both Kluwe and Tebow.
Those two singular things fully define both Kluwe and Tebow.
Blacken said:
Because for better or worse, political beliefs aren't privileged in our society in the same way as one's religious faith. Most of us are expected to keep our politics to ourselves at work. It's illegal to expect someone to do the same with their faith -- and at the risk of going Godwin, there are compelling historic reasons to privilege religious faith in that manner.
Being gay, of course, is another matter. Notwithstanding the inadequacy of our country's laws on the subject, if Kluwe had been sacked for being gay, instead of advocating for gay rights, I think the sympathy for him on this forum would be universal, and those of us who do feel sympathy for him would be a lot more angry than we are.
Just as a P.S., because most people probably don't remember my post upthread that mt8th responded to, I'm firmly in Kluwe's corner. Also, I never said Tebow was treated badly because of his faith -- given the number of overtly Christian men in the NFL, that would be stupid. Rather, I said that both Kluwe and Tebow were pushed out of the league for being "distractions," and I think this cultural insistence on blandness makes the NFL a little less fun. (I also said that Kluwe and Tebow could both help certain NFL teams, which I realize is not a universally held opinion -- if you don't think Kluwe is a top-32 punter, the only story here is the alleged behavior of the Vikings' special teams coach.)
I'm not getting how that makes it more offensive, instead of just legally protected. To me, being fired for saying "don't shit on gay people" is a hell of a lot more offensive. (And I read your posts, I get your stance on the issue, but I don't understand how being mistreated because you're standing up for someone else is less offensive than being mistreated for metaphysical beliefs.)maufman said:
Kluwe considering a lawsuit. This guy annoys the fuck out of me but good for him. If he can prove the special teams coach said that shit and contributed to his termination, I hope he wins. And wins big. No room for that crap in the NFL or anywhere else, regardless of "culture".
Full article here:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/26/chris-kluwe-considering-lawsuit-against-the-vikings/
Full article here:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/26/chris-kluwe-considering-lawsuit-against-the-vikings/
Vikings are reconsidering releasing the findings of the now-completed investigation
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3503429.shtml
Kluwe says he'll have a press conference today, he tweeted a pic of the press release
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3503429.shtml
Kluwe says he'll have a press conference today, he tweeted a pic of the press release
edit - Vikes say they didn't say they wouldn't release the report http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_26151042/chris-kluwe-accuses-vikings-quashing-priefer-report?source=rss
Report looks long
Report looks long
After reading through the various reports about this, it seems obvious that two things are true:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/vikings/2014/07/15/chris-kluwe-lawsuit-discrimination-mike-priefer/12674611/
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/26022285/chris-kluwe-vikings-lawsuit
- Virtually all of Kluwe's allegations have been confirmed.
- The Vikings seem to be in a state of panic over how to handle the findings.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/vikings/2014/07/15/chris-kluwe-lawsuit-discrimination-mike-priefer/12674611/
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/26022285/chris-kluwe-vikings-lawsuit
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
Kluwe to file employment discrimination suit. (not a ton of new facts for those here, just an ESPN consolidation)
MentalDisabldLst said:
First comment on that article...
Steve Broome · Top Commenter · La Mesa, California
This fruit kluwe is a perfect example of the hypersensitivity that awaits to ruin our country. Everything is an outrage, no statements are private, and winning is less important than making sure no ones feelings are hurt. We can't even have football be masculine they had to ruin that too.
This country still has a long way to go.
Yeah, if you were expecting to see some brilliant enlightening thoughts on ESPN.com's comment section, you are going to be disappointed. I remember reading some of them after the Jovan Belcher incident, and swore I would never look at them at length again.
I made the horrible, horrible mistake of wading into the comments on the article about Ian Thorpe being gay. No one should do this. It's a thoroughly awful idea.
His twitter feed is must see right about now fwiw...
https://twitter.com/ChrisWarcraft/status/490295983356387328
https://twitter.com/ChrisWarcraft/status/490297653813469184
https://twitter.com/ChrisWarcraft/status/490295983356387328
https://twitter.com/ChrisWarcraft/status/490297653813469184
Looks like the Vikings are doing some of what Kluwe wants. What is he referring to with regard to them playing dirty?
EvilEmpire said:
The Vikings are conceding only as much as they can't defend themselves against. The implication seems to be that the team made private threats to Kluwe (presumably that they would release information compromising to Kluwe), and Kluwe is upping the ante by taking it public.
Sprowl said:
Conceding what they can't defend is reasonable. If they made threats against Kluwe, they are beyond stupid.
Priefer apparently ran around making tons of Sandusky jokes, including cutting a hole in his shorts butt and saying he was a victim.
On iPhone so can't easily link but read via pulse via I think Deadspin.
On iPhone so can't easily link but read via pulse via I think Deadspin.
Seriously. I can't believe he hasn't had someone take away his computer and phone and fax machine and telegraph and campfire and then duct tape his mouth shut just for good measure.EvilEmpire said:
What a Twitter implosion. It's a shame because if he just kept his mouth shut, the focus would have to be on Priefer admitting fault, the suspension, and Kluwe making a pretty terrible Sandusky joke. With this, it's a lot more focus on him and a lot less on the Vikings. If he was going to say anything, a quick apology for the joke on his end and a statement that more will be made clear at trial would have been enough.
Foolish.
Foolish.