17:00:45 >>> Hi, everyone. You're in the CNN news room.
17:00:48 I'm poppy Harlow joining you live in New York.
17:00:50 We are following new developments this hour on that
17:00:52 scandal that threatens to overshad dote super bowl.
17:00:56 A short time ago new England patriots coach Bill Belichick
17:01:00 defiantly defended his team and called what's become known as
17:01:03 deflategate a huge waste of time.
17:01:05 He slammed allegations suggesting that someone in the
17:01:08 pats camp possibly deflated footballs, bending the rules to
17:01:11 help the pats win the afc championship game.
17:01:18 Lis listen.
17:01:19 >> This team was the best team in the afc in the regular
17:01:22 season. We won two games in the playoffs
17:01:25 against two good football teams. Best team in the post-season.
17:01:29 And that's what this team is. And I know that because I've
17:01:34 been with them every day. And I'm proud of this team.
17:01:38 So I just want to share with you what I've learned over the past
17:01:43 week. I'm embarrassed to talk about
17:01:45 the amount of time that I've put into this relative to the other
17:01:51 important challenge in front of us.
17:01:55 I'm not a scientist. I'm not an expert in footballs.
17:01:58 I'm not an expert in football measurements.
17:02:02 I'm just telling you what I know.
17:02:05 >> Let me bring in Sarah gannom. Sarah, you were there at the
17:02:09 press conference. What was your read and what was
17:02:11 the reaction in the room after Bill Belichick stopped speaking?
17:02:15 >> Reporter: Well, poppy, he went through this elaborate --
17:02:19 what sounded like a science experiment.
17:02:23 Frankly, he took footballs and inflated them to the psi, the
17:02:27 pound per square inch, that quarterback Tom Brady has said
17:02:32 that he likes his footballs to be inflated to.
17:02:36 That's 12.5 pound per square inch.
17:02:38 And then they took them outside and measured them again after a
17:02:44 time. And found that the pounds per
17:02:46 square inch actually dropped 1.5 pounds when they were left
17:02:49 outside for a long period of time.
17:02:50 And that was Belichick's explanation for what might have
17:02:56 happened at the championship game when it was found that the
17:02:58 balls were deflated to a level that was below the regulation,
17:03:02 below what's allowed by the NFL during a game.
17:03:06 Now, after going through this very elaborate explanation,
17:03:11 essentially explaining these science experiments that they
17:03:14 went through in the last couple of days, you heard him start to
17:03:17 get pretty agitated, saying this is something that was taking up
17:03:19 a lot of his time in the last few days when he feels he should
17:03:22 have been preparing for the super bowl.
17:03:24 That he feels that this team always plays by the letter of
17:03:28 the law, goes by the rules, NFL rules.
17:03:31 Does not break the rules. And he was called out on that.
17:03:34 When you ask about the mood of the room, one of the reporters
17:03:38 went after him a couple of times, saying, look, this is
17:03:41 actually a team that's had a lot of controversy over the last few
17:03:45 years, specifically the reporter called him out on the
17:03:49 videotaping scandal from a few years back where he was caught
17:03:52 videotaping another coach's hand signals from the sidelines.
17:03:57 Belichick got pretty defensive about that and stuck to his
17:04:02 belief that this was not only was this not cheating, that this
17:04:06 was not the fault of anyone on his team, but that his team
17:04:09 always abides by the rules. He basically, poppy, chalked
17:04:13 this up to atmospheric pressure. Like when you get into your car
17:04:17 after a cold night and your tire pressure is a little lower until
17:04:20 you start driving again. He said that's in his opinion
17:04:24 might be what happened. That these balls deflate without
17:04:30 anyone touching them, without anyone messing with them.
17:04:34 The pressure inside these footballs can vary based on the
17:04:38 weather. He also emphasized that it's not
17:04:41 team equipment managers or anyone on the team who inflates
17:04:45 the footballs, that it's actually officials who do that
17:04:48 work in a locker room. I'm sorry, not in the locker
17:04:52 room. It's not done by the team.
17:04:53 It's officials who do that. And he said that they can
17:04:57 suggest what psi they'd like their footballs to be at before
17:05:00 the game, but then they're at the mercy of the officials to
17:05:04 inflate their footballs and take them out onto the field.
17:05:08 Poppy? >> Sarah gannom reporting for us
17:05:11 live there from where the press conference happened.
17:05:14 In the half hour wie goe're going to delve more into this.
17:05:23 >>> With the latest on the national security scare in
17:05:24 Atlanta, we are learning two norad fighter jets have returned
17:05:27 to their home base after escorting two passenger airline
17:05:30 flights to Atlanta's hartsfield-jackson airport.
17:05:32 Joining me on the phone with the developments our aviation
17:05:34 correspondent Rene marsh. What do we know, Rene?
17:05:37 >> Reporter: Well, at this point we know, poppy, that these two
17:05:41 passenger jets were able to land safely.
17:05:44 They were destined for Atlanta's hartsfield-jackson airport.
17:05:48 So we know that they made it safely to the destination.
17:05:52 We know also that authorities met the plane on the ground in a
17:05:55 remote area because the process, the way it works, is they now
17:05:59 have to sweep this aircraft. They also have to screen all of
17:06:03 the individuals and their luggage that was on board.
17:06:08 Both of these passenger jets. Of course, you have the
17:06:13 bomb-sniffing dogs out there as well to make sure that there is
17:06:16 no bomb on board. Of course, we know that this
17:06:20 threat came via social media, Twitter, a threat of a bomb
17:06:25 being on board these two passenger jets.
17:06:29 In this day and age, law enforcement, airlines, all
17:06:33 authorities, they do not want to take any risk.
17:06:36 So we saw that those two military jets, they were
17:06:41 scrambled. By know that they essentially
17:06:43 escorted both of tees aircraft until they landed safely at
17:06:49 Atlanta's main airport there. And we know that the screening
17:06:53 process is under way. Scary for those passengers.
17:06:56 But this happens way too often. Just last weekend, you had a
17:06:59 situation in Raleigh, north Carolina.
17:07:04 Same situation. A plane on the tarmac there
17:07:07 landed from Atlanta to Raleigh. All of the passengers had to be
17:07:11 evacuated because of a bomb threat on social media.
17:07:13 Then in New York City at JFK just on Monday, you had a
17:07:20 telephone threat, bomb threat, and two passenger jets were also
17:07:25 searched as a result of this. So what you see is a very hefty
17:07:31 response. Because with the worldwide
17:07:32 threats that we've been talking so much about, no one wants to
17:07:38 take the risk. So that process is under way at
17:07:41 this point, poppy. >> Rene marsh reporting for us.
17:07:43 Thank you, we appreciate it. Also to inform everyone all the
17:07:46 passengers are safe. Also those planes were bound for
17:07:51 Atlanta and they did land safely in Atlanta.
17:07:54 >>> Meantime, president Obama today condemning the apparent
17:08:00 execution of one of two Japanese hostages held by Isis.
17:08:01 The president expressed condolences to the people of
17:08:02 Japan in a statement from the white house.
17:08:03 Also earlier today, a known Isis supporter posted a picture and
17:08:09 also audio that pur pports to show that one of the two hossages,
17:08:14 haruna yukawa, was beheaded after a deadline passed.
17:08:19 This is an image released earlier this week of him.
17:08:22 While the death has not been confirmed, the message appears
17:08:27 to delay a new demand by Isis for the remaining hostage's free
17:08:28 dochlt they want a prisoner exchange.
17:08:30 The voice on the audio calls for the release of sajida Al rishawi
17:08:37 arrested in Jordan in 2005. Who is she?
17:08:40 Our reporter has more. >> Reporter: Iraqi national
17:08:45 sajida Al rishawi was part of a four-member suicide team that
17:08:49 was dispatched by Al Qaeda in Iraq in 2005 to attack Jordan.
17:08:53 Now, in November of that year, three hotels here in the
17:08:59 Jordanian capital were hit by suicide bombings.
17:09:06 Sajida Al rishawi was captured by Jordan.
17:09:09 She said she was at one of the hotels with her husband who
17:09:18 attacked and blew up a wedding party at that hotel.
17:09:19 But that her suicide vest failed to detonate.
17:09:20 In 2006, Al rishawi was sentenced to death.
17:09:21 But she has been on death row since.
17:09:23 Now, Jordan has had a de facto moratorium on the death penalty
17:09:27 since that year and has only resumed executions in December
17:09:33 of last year, just last month. Jordan for the past week has
17:09:36 been working closely with the Japanese government to try and
17:09:40 secure the release of the hostages.
17:09:43 A crisis operation center has been set up at the Japanese
17:09:48 embassy here in Aman. It is headed by the deputy
17:09:51 foreign minister of Japan. Now both Jordanians and Japanese
17:09:57 officials here in the capital Aman have been very tight-lipped
17:10:00 about the situation. Jordanian government for its
17:10:02 part would not comment on this demand on Saturday, saying
17:10:08 they're working to verify the authenticity of this video.
17:10:12 Cnn, Aman. >> Thank you very much for that.
17:10:17 >>> Also, Saudi Arabia ruled by one royal family, but with the
17:10:23 death of its king this week his successor and those next in line
17:10:24 are not getting any younger. We'll take a look at what this
17:10:25 could mean for the country's future.
17:10:27 >>> Also the debate over deflategate takes a new twist as
17:10:31 the pressure builds on the NFL to find the answers.
17:10:33 We'll tackle the issue with our experts in a special report at
17:10:38 5:30 P.M. Eastern right here on CNN.
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17:12:40 Know better sleep with Sleep Number. >>> President Obama cutting his
17:13:24 trip to India short this week in order to go to Saudi Arabia.
17:13:26 America's ally is facing new uncertainty after the death of
17:13:35 king Abdullah. His successor, king Salman, is
17:13:36 79 years old. His heir apparent the crown
17:13:37 prince is 69 years old. Their generates is getting older
17:13:41 and can't supply kings forever. What comes next in Saudi Arabia?
17:13:44 That is a very big question. Our nick Robertson has more.
17:13:48 >> Reporter: The line of succession in Saudi Arabia
17:13:55 passes from brother to brother. All the sons of the original
17:13:56 sing Saad. So what has been happening over
17:13:57 the years is that leadership has become essentially older and
17:14:02 older and older. King king Salman 79.
17:14:16 In Saudi Arabia the king has all the power.
17:14:21 He has holds a court where people will come and petition
17:14:34 him for things that they need. All decisions about affairs of
17:14:35 state will ultimately cross his desk.
17:14:36 So it is important to have somebody in that position who is
17:14:37 at least able bodied, able minded, and capable of dealing
17:14:39 with the heavy issues of the affairs of state.
17:14:41 And right now, king Salman faces big problems to his north, to
17:14:46 his south. Yemen, Saudi Arabia pumps
17:14:50 billions of dollars into Yemen. Increasingly unstable.
17:14:54 The houthis pushing out the government that Saudi Arabia
17:14:59 supported there. To the north they see Iraq now
17:15:02 as really being very much in the mold of Iran.
17:15:06 Iran for Saudi Arabia essentially an enemy.
17:15:10 Then they see Iran as backing the houthis in the south in
17:15:15 Yemen. So this is going to absorb a lot
17:15:18 of the time and effort and energy of king Salman.
17:15:25 Again, not in the best of health.
17:15:25 Again, not in the best of health.
17:15:31 When the succession drop to the next generation.
17:15:32 The next generation, educated, by and large, abroad.
17:15:35 A very different generation to this older generation that's in
17:15:41 power right now. That's not happening.
17:15:44 What should we expect? We should expect king Salman
17:15:48 very much to continue power in the same vein as king Abdullah.
17:15:52 Don't expect any big changes initially at least.
17:15:58 Nick Robertson, CNN, London. >> Nick, thank you for that.
17:16:09 When those changes do come to Saudi Arabia they could affect
17:16:10 the United States as well. Keep in mind, Saudi Arabia is
17:16:11 the one who really controls the global price of oil since they
17:16:13 are such a big producer. Also they are a U.S. Ally in the
17:16:15 fight against terror. Very critical for the U.S.
17:16:17 Strategically. We'll talk about it next.
17:16:32 Good expert.
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17:16:59 with boost. >>> Saudi Arabia's royal family
17:19:03 is not small. The father of modern Arabia has
17:19:07 45 sons. All of the kingdom's monarchs
17:19:16 have come from his line. Will Saudi Arabia see anything
17:19:18 different? Democracy in our lifetime?
17:19:18 different? Democracy in our lifetime?
17:19:19 Joining me now to talk about this, Jim Smith.
17:19:20 He's a former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
17:19:24 He joins me this evening from Washington.
17:19:25 Thank you for being here. >> Poppy, good to be with you,
17:19:28 thank you. >> Let's get your sense of this
17:19:33 successor, king Salman. Very old.
17:19:35 Same family. A lot of people are asking is
17:19:38 anything going to change? Will we see anything different?
17:19:43 >> Well, you say very old. He's 79.
17:19:44 That is a culture that respects age and the wisdom that goes
17:19:52 with age. Salman as the governor of read
17:19:55 was known as one of the hardest-working people in
17:19:57 government. He continued that trend as he
17:20:00 assumed the portfolio of the ministry of defense and the
17:20:01 crown prince. So I don't think age is an issue
17:20:05 here. His health for a 79-year-old
17:20:07 seems to be solid. And he's surrounding himself
17:20:12 with a younger group of people that can help execute decisions.
17:20:21 So I think we've got a positive transition here.
17:20:26 >> So he's also been praised as a reformer.
17:20:27 Is that the reality? Is there a real sense of reform
17:20:31 that will get reform perhaps critically on some of the major
17:20:32 human rights violations in Saudi Arabia?
17:20:33 >> Well, poppy, you tend to think that an absolute monarch
17:20:38 can do whatever he wants to do. And the reality of it is that
17:20:43 king of Saudi Arabia has constituencies he has to deal
17:20:47 with. And he's got a population that's
17:20:49 half ultraconservative and the other half looking to modernize.
17:20:55 And one of the initiatives that king Abdullah put in place in
17:20:59 2007 was a modernization of the judicial system, which hasn't
17:21:03 actually taken place yet. If Salman can effect that
17:21:09 change, then you will see something different, some of
17:21:13 these judgements that are being put out.
17:21:14 But I think the direction of modernization for the kingdom of
17:21:18 Saudi Arabia has been set, and that king Salman will continue
17:21:26 that. >> And what does that direction
17:21:35 look like? Because here we are sitting in
17:21:36 the U.S. In a democracy and saying, are we going to see a
17:21:38 democracy in Saudi Arabia in our lifetime.
17:21:38 democracy in Saudi Arabia in our lifetime.
17:21:39 You know the people of Saudi Arabia.
17:21:40 Is that what they want? >> No, they want a responsive
17:21:41 government. The form of government is not
17:21:42 nearly as important to them as stability and a responsive
17:21:46 government that's responsive to the needs of its people.
17:21:49 Fans you look at the issues that people have been focused on
17:21:52 since the beginning of the Arab spring, it's things like housing
17:21:59 and jobs, focus on corruption, the security apparatus.
17:22:02 And in all those things, king Abdullah was responsive to but
17:22:07 in a gradual way. I don't think you're going to
17:22:10 see a move toward democracy in the near-term because in a
17:22:22 democratic system -- in a tribal system, democracy doesn't
17:22:23 operate the same as we understand it here in America.
17:22:24 >> Very important point. Ambassador, thank you for coming
17:22:33 on. Thank you for the perspective.
17:22:33 on. Thank you for the perspective.
17:22:34 Thank you. >> You as well.
17:22:35 >>> Coming up next, ready for some football?
17:22:36 Deflategate has thrown a shadow over the NFL's biggest game.
17:22:37 The billion dollar extravaganza known as the super bowl.
17:22:41 It could also tarnish the legacies of two of the game's
17:22:45 biggest names, coach bill Belichick and also quarterback
17:22:54 Tom Brady. Our expert panel looks at the
17:22:55 alleged offense, the suspects, and the potential punishment
17:22:56 next. >>> First this month on ones to
17:22:58 watch our series here, we're looking at the work of a
17:23:02 Nigerian architect who's building around water.
17:23:07 >> Kunya abniemi is one to
17:23:27 watch. His work is focused on building
17:23:30 on and around water. One of his major projects is
17:23:31 here in the community of macoco in Nigeria.
17:23:34 >> It is a settlement in the lagoon area of Lagos.
17:23:41 And that is really right in the heart of the city.
17:23:44 And it's a settlement with houses built on stilts.
17:23:50 >> Adiemi was happy to help when Lococo needed to put its
17:23:56 community school on a firmer foundation.
17:24:07 And so the floating school was bu
17:24:10 built. >> This is the school bell.
17:24:11 So we're on the ground floor of the through thing school.
17:24:16 And this is basically 100 square meters.
17:24:20 It's 10 meters by 10 meters wide.
17:24:21 And it is basically floating on about 256 barrels.
17:24:29 All the criticism of shantytown are valid.
17:24:30 But the one thing you can't level against it, its ability to
17:24:33 respond to a human condition, which is to create habitation.
17:24:45 And nothing we've invented can react as fast as the shanty
17:24:47 towns react. >> You can watch the full show
17:24:48 on cnn.com/ones to watch. Back in a moment.
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17:27:54 >>> Hey, everyone. I'm poppy Harlow.
17:27:56 >> And I'm Rachel Nichols. We are going to spend the rest
17:27:59 of the hour talking about one of the week's biggest stories.
17:28:10 How did 11 footballs turn into a scandal that could overshadow
17:28:13 the biggest game on the planet, the super bowl?
17:28:15 Deflategate is the controversy that just will not go away,
17:28:16 poppy. >> And this week should have
17:28:17 been about the buildup to the big game, the super bowl.
17:28:18 And the legacy of these two men, coach Bill Belichick and also qb
17:28:19 Tom Brady. >> And their incredibly
17:28:22 partnership which includes six trips to the super bowl and
17:28:23 three titles. But instead it's about whether
17:28:27 their team cheated to win its last game.
17:28:28 Last hour, Belichick spoke to the media.
17:28:29 He said his team tested footballs.
17:28:31 A little physics lesson there. Suggested that losing air
17:28:35 pressure can happen naturally. Take a listen.
17:28:37 >> We found that once the balls, the footballs were on the field
17:28:46 over an extended period of time -- in other words, they
17:28:49 were adjusted to the climactic conditions and also the fact
17:28:57 that the balls reached an equilibrium without the rubbing
17:29:00 process that after that had run its course and the football had
17:29:04 reached an equilibrium, that they were down approximately 1.5
17:29:09 pounds per square inch. And I can tell you from all the
17:29:12 footballs that I've handled over the last week, I can't tell the
17:29:16 difference if there's a one-pound difference or half a
17:29:30 pound difference in any of the footballs.
17:29:30 pound difference in any of the footballs.
17:29:31 expert panel, former pro quarterback Rodney Peete, Boston
17:29:40 sports commentator Michael holly, author of "Patriot
17:29:41 reign." Jim giapolis, analyst rules for
17:29:42 ESPN. And Michael Naughton the chair
17:29:45 of the physics department at Boston college.
17:29:46 We did not think we would need a physicist on this show.
17:29:50 >> Thanks to Bill Belichick we are adding one.
17:29:52 He says he is not a scientist. But sir, you are.
17:29:57 So I want to start with you. Does his explanation make sense?
17:30:04 >> The explanation they heard, I didn't catch all of the press
17:30:06 conference today because I was driving.
17:30:19 But it seems that I as well as other physicist and chemists the
17:30:21 last several days, that being pressurize the balls at one
17:30:23 temperature and measure them later at a cold temperature
17:30:24 you're going to get a drop in pressure.
17:30:27 And the temperature we're talking about you're going to
17:30:29 get one or two psi drop in pressure.
17:30:34 The other thing I and many other people have been saying the
17:30:43 exact details what temperature initial time but temperature
17:30:44 later. What was the initial per.
17:30:46 How were they calibrated. Lots of other things.
17:30:49 >> I'm going to ask you to help me with the math here.
17:30:51 Because you do this for a living.
17:30:53 >> Sure. >> The report, the initial
17:30:54 report that kicked this off says that the patriots fell 2 psi
17:31:13 below the range. The rage is only 1 psi wide.
17:31:16 It's 12 1/2 to 13 1/2. The report also stated -- and
17:31:17 there have been multiple reports since then -- the colt did not
17:31:21 fall below the range. Even if the colts started at the
17:31:22 top, 13.5 and patriots started at the bottom, 12.5.
17:31:23 This is information we don't know for sure yet because the
17:31:26 NFL hasn't told us. No matter what happens there
17:31:28 with the atmosphere and the balls being tested inside the
17:31:29 officials' locker room and outside to the field where it
17:31:31 was 51 degrees, not 30 or 20 but 51 degrees.
17:31:32 How could only one team fall out of range if the range is only 1
17:31:41 P psi?
17:32:03 >> Depends on the details. Is it so that the NFL said that
17:32:04 the colts did not fall outside? Or was that sort of hearsay
17:32:06 reports? >> We've got multiple reports
17:32:09 from multiple sources multiple confirmations from the NFL.
17:32:11 The NFL says after testing both teams they're only investigating
17:32:12 the patriots. That's sort of as much tacit
17:32:13 confirmation we would need of that.
17:32:14 That's sort of where the big question is now on this
17:32:15 atmospheric explanation. >> The fact of the matter is,
17:32:16 one can probably come up with a reasonable explanation for it.
17:32:19 For example, the patriots started theirs inside in a warm
17:32:26 room at 12.5. The colts started theirs that
17:32:27 warm room at 13.5. They both go out to the same
17:32:29 temperature outside. We have to presume that, right?
17:32:35 On the field it's the same temperature both sets of balls.
17:32:36 But if the colts' room in which they pressurized the 13.5 was
17:32:38 not as warm as the patriots room in which they pressurized at
17:32:43 12.5, then the patriots drop by 2 supposed to drop by one and
17:32:47 the patriots are outside the range and the colts are inside
17:32:51 the range. >> So Michael holly, to you, I'd
17:32:55 like your take on bill Belichick's press conference and
17:32:58 the fact that he said not once but at least twice, this is the
17:33:13 end of this subject for me for a long time.
17:33:14 I mean, he says we've done this study.
17:33:15 We know that we did nothing wrong.
17:33:15 We know that we did nothing wrong.
17:33:21 investigation. But I mean, you're a sports
17:33:22 commentator. Any chance this is the end of it
17:33:23 for him, even ahead of the super bowl?
17:33:24 >> Yeah. I think when he said this is the
17:33:26 end of it, those of us who have dealt with him -- Rachel knows
17:33:27 this very well -- he says he's not going to talk about it.
17:33:28 He's very good at giving you one mantra over and over to kind of
17:33:31 shut you down and say hey, we're moving on to Cincinnati or we're
17:33:35 on to Seattle or I've told you everything I know what you said
17:33:47 earlier in the week at this press conference.
17:33:48 I think people need to note history of Bill Belichick and
17:33:49 this commissioner, roger Goodell.
17:33:50 There's no love lost between these two.
17:33:51 Belichick is very angry that before on the eve of super bowl
17:33:54 XLII, the last time they were in the super bowl, against the
17:34:10 giants, even that game he's talking with the league for five
17:34:11 hours about an unsubstantiated report about taping the St.
17:34:12 Louis rams walk through before super bowl XXXVI.
17:34:13 So that wasted five hours of his time.
17:34:14 He's still I think very upset about that.
17:34:15 So there's a lot going on here that is not obvious on the
17:34:28 surface. >> And Jim, I want to bring you
17:34:28 surface. >> And Jim, I want to bring you
17:34:29 You served as the supervisor of officials.
17:34:30 One question for you about bill Belichick's press conference, he
17:34:36 sort of made it sound as if the officials inflate the balls.
17:34:37 I read things you have said in the past the officials will
17:34:38 bring things up to inflation if the balls are not properly
17:34:40 inflated when they get them. Can you clear up for us exactly
17:34:44 what the procedure is there? >> Absolutely.
17:34:56 What happens is each equipment manager will put together 12
17:34:57 balls. For the colts, 12 footballs, for
17:34:58 the patriots, 12 balls. Those footballs go into the
17:35:01 referee's locker room. At that time -- and again, it is
17:35:04 an 80-degree locker room where the referees will check the
17:35:07 pressure. They will check to see where the
17:35:08 pressure is. If the patriots' footballs come
17:35:11 in at 12.5 pounds, they do not touch them.
17:35:13 If they come in at 11.5 pound, they will pump them to 12.5
17:35:21 pounds. If they come in at 13.5, they
17:35:29 leave them at 13. The officials just have to leave
17:35:30 the ball -- the footballs between 12.5 and 13.5.
17:35:35 And that's their only requirement.
17:35:36 So what happens to the balls at that time, it's interesting to
17:35:37 hear about this atmospheric pressure, et cetera.
17:35:38 All I know as an official, we used to prepare the footballs.
17:35:42 We would keep them in that warm locker room.
17:35:44 Then as they go outside then they become used.
17:35:51 We never ever check the footballs again once the game
17:35:53 begins. >> Can you come up with any
17:35:54 explanation why one team's footballs would fall more than
17:35:55 one psi out of range while the other team's wouldn't?
17:35:58 >> The only thing that I could think of is the patriots come in
17:36:02 at 12.5, the colts come in at 13.5.
17:36:05 All the footballs are kept together.
17:36:07 They don't separate the footballs.
17:36:09 They all go out together with the referee and the
17:36:15 head linesman about 10 minutes before kickoff.
17:36:18 So they're brought out to the ball boys who then have control
17:36:22 of the footballs. Why a certain number -- I guess
17:36:25 the thing I'm trying to find out is, what was the actual number?
17:36:28 The league is saying or someone is representing that the
17:36:33 footballs were two pounds or two psis below the number.
17:36:37 Is that two psis below 13.5 or two psis below 12.5?
17:36:43 We don't have enough information from the league, from their
17:36:47 investigators, to know exactly where the footballs -- what the
17:36:51 number was and where they all all-lie.
17:36:56 Where the colts and patriots footballs ended up.
17:36:58 How much of a difference was there in the final outcome of
17:37:02 the whole situation that they're going through right now.
17:37:03 >> Right. That's really the point, right?
17:37:06 If it was more than one psi the weather is not enough of an
17:37:09 excuse. Fit was less than then maybe
17:37:12 there's enough variance with the weather.
17:37:13 We don't know. The NFL hasn't told us.
17:37:16 Rodney Peete, you know how a football feels, though.
17:37:18 You heard bill bell deck talk about the fact he couldn't tell
17:37:20 the difference with one psi, maybe a little bit with two psi.
17:37:24 Tom Brady says he can't feel it at all.
17:37:25 What do you think? >> I agree that if it started at
17:37:29 13.5 and it's below and two pounds below and it goes to
17:37:33 11.5, we don't know the difference.
17:37:34 What I like to put to rest, though, let's take bill
17:37:38 Belichick out of this conversation.
17:37:40 It is strictly 100% between the quarterback and the equipment
17:37:45 manager. That is all.
17:37:47 The quarterback feels the balls before on Friday or Saturday,
17:37:50 gets the balls that he likes, turns them in.
17:37:53 And then it goes to the officials.
17:37:55 The head coach, the offensive coordinator, anyone else has
17:37:58 nothing to do with this. So when Bill Belichick says I
17:38:01 have no idea what's going on, that's between Tom Brady and
17:38:05 what he likes, I 100% agree with him.
17:38:08 >> That's interesting. Well, hold that because we're
17:38:10 going to have you back, all of you guys back after the break.
17:38:13 And Belichick certainly is a coach that a lot of people
17:38:15 around the country outside of new England love to hate.
17:38:17 A quarterback known for his talent and of course his looks
17:38:20 and famous wife. We're going to take a closer
17:38:22 look at both men in the center of this storm.
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17:41:33 >>> Deflategate might not matter quite as much if it weren't for
17:41:37 the two guys at the center of it, Bill Belichick and Tom
17:41:40 Brady. >> Loved by pats fans but
17:41:42 loathed by a lot of opposing fans.
17:41:44 Brady insists no matter what happened, he didn't do it.
17:41:51 >> I didn't alter the ball in any way.
17:41:54 I have a process before every game where I go in and pick the
17:41:57 balls that I want -- the footballs they want to use for
17:41:59 the game. I don't want anyone touching the
17:42:01 balls after that. I don't want anyone rubbing
17:42:05 them, putting any air in them, taking any air out.
17:42:07 To me those balls are perfect and that's what I expect when I
17:42:10 show up on the field. >> All right.
17:42:13 Before we bring in our expert panel I do want to ask you,
17:42:17 Rachel. I sat and we aired live this
17:42:19 entire press conference by bill Belichick.
17:42:21 He was defiant, he was dismissive.
17:42:23 He said I'm not talk about this anymore.
17:42:25 What did you make of just what he said and how he said it?
17:42:28 >> Well, this was pretty classic Bill Belichick, right?
17:42:30 He wants to set the agenda. For four or five days now, a lot
17:42:34 of people have been saying, hey, the footballs didn't let the air
17:42:37 out of them themselves. So what is the plausible
17:42:39 explanation? So this was a pretty great move
17:42:41 on the patriots part, I thought, to come up with an alternate
17:42:44 explanation. Now, is it the accurate
17:42:47 explanation? We're going to have to wait for
17:42:49 a NFL investigation. They're the ones who have access
17:42:51 to a lot of things that the rest of us outside of the league
17:42:54 don't have. We hope that that is really
17:42:59 thorough. We're going to have to wait and
17:43:01 see. There's a" gq" article about how
17:43:10 Robert Kraft is close to roger Goodell.
17:43:13 >> We heard him come out and say we've whatever they've asked for
17:43:18 we've cooperated in this investigation.
17:43:19 Still we have very little details from the league.
17:43:20 >> I want to bring in our panel here, though.
17:43:24 Look Michael, we talked about spygate earlier.
17:43:30 This isab Belichick, this is Tom Brady.
17:43:34 What about shifting the rules and getting the most out of the
17:43:38 rules how people are going to look at them even if no further
17:43:43 evidence comes in on this and we never know for sure?
17:43:45 >> It all goes back to spygate. Think about what we're talking
17:43:49 about here. Robert Kraft said in the
17:43:50 statement that he released to the media.
17:43:53 The league sent him a letter on Monday and said we're going to
17:43:57 launch an investigation into the air pressure of the football.
17:44:00 The game was played on Sunday night there.
17:44:02 Were people still on the field technically on Monday morning.
17:44:05 So there was no conversation about what happened with the
17:44:08 football. It was an assumption of guilt
17:44:11 because it is the patriots spygate happened in September of
17:44:13 2007. And I believe that this is still
17:44:15 the residue of spygate. And I also have to say this.
17:44:18 A lot of people talk about the patriots and say there's a
17:44:21 culture of cheating there. They've done so many things.
17:44:24 There are so many incidents. The big incident was spygate.
17:44:26 There was no other cheating involved with the patriots since
17:44:30 September of 2007. They got caught.
17:44:32 They were penalized. They lost a first round pick.
17:44:35 Bill Belichick was fined $500,000.
17:44:37 There was an erroneous report that the Boston herald put out
17:44:41 in February of 2008 that was dismissed and the herald took
17:44:44 the unprecedented step of issuing a front page and back
17:44:47 page apology saying we were wrong.
17:44:49 But I think a lot of people get it twisted.
17:44:52 They think that the patriots were guilty of taping the St.
17:44:56 Louis rams before super bowl XXXVI.
17:44:58 The one thing that stands out, Rachel, is spygate and that's
17:45:00 the issue. >> I want to get back to
17:45:03 something Bill Belichick said. Jim, he said that part of the
17:45:06 issue, too, is how they prepare and treat the footballs before
17:45:09 they even bring them to the officials.
17:45:12 He talked about rubbing them with a substance that could add
17:45:16 artificially one extra psi. Have you heard about anything
17:45:19 like this before? How does something that you
17:45:21 treat a football with inflate the air inside the football?
17:45:25 >> That is the first time I've ever heard that kind of a
17:45:29 comment. I can tell you as an official --
17:45:32 and the official's job is strictly to receive the
17:45:34 footballs from the equipment manager.
17:45:37 And making sure that they meet the specifications of the
17:45:40 national football league. They do kind of a field test to
17:45:44 kind of get to see if it's tacky or if it's smooth, et cetera.
17:45:48 But basically the quarterback has owe kokayed it.
17:45:53 Now are going to take a gauge given to them by the national
17:45:56 football league and they are going to insert the gauge.
17:45:58 They are going to check the psis.
17:46:01 Now, if as I said earlier, if it's 12 1/2 it's okay.
17:46:05 If it's 13 1/2 it's okay. Fit hits any other number they
17:46:08 will either inflate or deflate the ball.
17:46:12 But it's not a very difficult procedure.
17:46:14 And it's something that the officials take very seriously
17:46:18 and they make sure that they do what they're supposed to do and
17:46:21 they put the stamp, the referee will put a stamp on the ball.
17:46:24 Once the game begins as an official all you're looking for
17:46:28 is does that ball have the referee's stamp on it.
17:46:31 And that's the ball we're going to play with.
17:46:42 >> Troy Aikman NFL hall of famer had something to say about this.
17:46:47 >> It's obvious Tom Brady had something to do with this.
17:46:49 The balls that have been deflated, that doesn't happen
17:46:52 unless the quarterback wants that to happen.
17:46:53 I can assure you of that. >> Now Rodney, you're also a
17:46:58 part of that. What do you think about troy
17:47:00 Aikman and his comments here? >> Well, part of it I think he's
17:47:05 absolutely right. That it all falls on the
17:47:07 quarterback and his preference. And I can tell you there's
17:47:09 different types of rituals. Some clubs put the balls in a
17:47:18 dryer with towels to get them warmed up and ready for play.
17:47:22 Guys that rub oil all over them, do different things.
17:47:24 During the course of the game I can also tell you that there are
17:47:27 sometimes when you feel a ball during the course of the series
17:47:29 and say that ball's too hard or that ball's too soft.
17:47:32 Get that ball out of the game. That happens.
17:47:36 That happens a lot. I've been on six different teams
17:47:38 and played with a lot of different quarterbacks.
17:47:41 Some like them hard, some like them soft.
17:47:43 And it's all about the quarterback.
17:47:44 So the quarterback is the one that really decides what that
17:47:47 ball is going to feel like. >> And that's what we've been
17:47:51 hearing over and over from quarterback after quarterback
17:47:53 after quarterback. Many of them saying that they do
17:47:56 not believe Tom Brady. The NFL really still at the
17:47:58 beginning of this investigation. Coming up after a quick break
17:48:01 we're going to talk about this. If the patriots deflated their
17:48:04 footballs deliberately, yes, it is cheating.
17:48:07 But if it happened that way is it as bad as say using steroids
17:48:11 to get ahead. We're going to examine one
17:48:12 player's take on this controversy next.
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17:51:21 >>> Fans aren't the only ones ticked off about deflate fwaetdeflategate.
17:51:30 A lot of players. Chris canty, he played the
17:51:33 patriots two weeks ago a-game the ravens lost by only four
17:51:36 points. He had this to say last week --
17:51:39 "What I'm going to say about the deflating of the balls, to me
17:51:42 there is no difference than prescription drugs.
17:51:46 You are cheating at that point." Chris canty joins me by phone
17:51:50 from Baltimore. Hello.
17:51:51 >> Hey, Rachel. How you doing?
17:51:54 >> I am very good. Nice to hear your voice.
17:51:56 Your insight into this, since you just played the patriots for
17:52:00 them to get to the game that is in such question here, why is
17:52:03 this as bad as steroids fit's true and we don't know yet if
17:52:06 it's true? >> Well, I used the ped analogy
17:52:15 because it attacks the integrity of game and competition.
17:52:17 You want to be on a level playing field and whether you're
17:52:20 phi vooi latin the NFL rules in the sense of deflating the balls
17:52:23 to get an advantage that way or whether you're taking banned
17:52:26 substances to get an advantage that way, you're still taking it
17:52:30 upon yourself to get a competitive advantage outside of
17:52:33 the NFL rule book. >> There's been some whispers
17:52:37 around the NFL whether the ravens noticed anything in your
17:52:41 guys' game against the patriots. Have you talked to your
17:52:44 teammates? Did anybody notice anything in
17:52:45 your game? >> Well, you know, no one said
17:52:47 anything to me about that during the course of the football game
17:52:51 and I haven't heard from any of my teammates about that to this
17:52:54 point, so I'm not going to, you know, speculate on what took
17:52:58 place in our ball game but I can tell you from the facts that
17:53:03 have come about already about deflategate, there was a clear
17:53:06 violation of the NFL rule book, and whether the patriots
17:53:09 intended to violate this rule or not, there was still a violation
17:53:13 of the rules and someone has to be held accountable.
17:53:16 And that's the other part of the ped analogy.
17:53:19 As players, we're responsible for what we put in our bodies.
17:53:24 Whether we knew we put a banned substance in our bodies or not,
17:53:27 you know, we're still responsible for it if you test
17:53:32 positive, you know, we have to -- we have to adhere to the
17:53:34 policy in place and have a suspension.
17:53:36 The same goes for coach Belichick and his staff and the
17:53:41 patriots players. There was a clear violation of
17:53:43 the rules, and because there was a -- the ball was deflated,
17:53:49 there has to be some consequence for them.
17:53:52 >> It's interesting take, whether they cheated
17:53:55 intentionally or not may or may not matter.
17:53:56 Thank you, Chris. Your perspective is valuable.
17:54:01 We appreciate your time. >> Thank you.
17:54:03 >> We've presented all the evidence which has been released
17:54:05 to the public about deflategate. We'll hand it off to our panel
17:54:08 of experts here and in the next segment find out what their
17:54:11 verdict is. Are the patriots guilty?
17:54:14 If they are, how should they be punished?
17:56:43 >>> Right now the new England patriots will play in the spoel.
17:56:47 That's going to happen no matter what.
17:56:49 While the coach talked far while today, the players, well, they
17:56:51 are not saying much. Take a listen.
17:56:58 >> It is what it is at the end of the day.
17:57:01 We can't control any allegations.
17:57:02 All we can do is play ball. Our goal is to win.
17:57:05 >> Many fans seem to have already decided for themselves
17:57:09 though. Take a look at this.
17:57:11 This is the cover of "The Boston globe" sports section from this
17:57:14 week and it says, the Lombardi trophy awarded to the super bowl
17:57:19 win we are a deflated football on the top.
17:57:23 >> Let's take a show of hands from the panel.
17:57:24 Without naming names, who thinks somebody on the patriots did
17:57:26 this? That this was intentional?
17:57:29 Can we get a hand up? Nobody.
17:57:31 Okay. That is interesting.
17:57:32 We have a panel of experts here. Everybody thinks this was just a
17:57:37 consequence of the weather, the factors of the football.
17:57:40 Nobody thinks it was intentional.
17:57:42 >> On the patriots' part. >> Absolutely.
17:57:44 But it is interesting as more explanations come out I think
17:57:48 there are people coming over and say, you know what, maybe there
17:57:51 were atmospheric conditions or other reasons this happened.
17:57:53 The truth is it's going to be hard to prove either way.
17:57:55 >> It is going to be hard. Guys, I wanted your take on
17:57:59 this. Jim, let me get your take on
17:58:01 this. If, indeed, something
17:58:03 intentional was done to give the patriots a benefit, what should
17:58:08 the punishment be? A fine?
17:58:11 Suspension? Draft picks?
17:58:12 What is the right consequence for an action like that?
17:58:17 >> You know, it's kind of amazing to me, and after I
17:58:20 listened to Chris' explanation and how can you put this in the
17:58:23 same category as a controlled substance that's illegal, how
17:58:28 can that be the same penalty as somebody -- as a pound of air
17:58:33 coming out of a football? You know, is there a competitive
17:58:38 disadvantage? I don't know.
17:58:39 You know, as Rodney said, I don't think the players could
17:58:42 tell the difference between one or two pounds of air.
17:58:45 You know, something happened there and I'm really anxious to
17:58:48 find out from the national football league what happened.
17:58:52 But gosh, you know, players don't wear the proper equipment.
17:58:57 Is that a competitive disadvantage or is that just
17:58:59 against the rules or does that have something to do with the
17:59:02 integrity of the game is this they're fined for that.
17:59:05 If they fine somebody that's done this, let's find them,
17:59:08 that's all. >> Jim, I want to jump in and
17:59:10 Rodney, real quick here, if this is found to be completely
17:59:14 consequential, the patriots did nothing, what damage was this to
17:59:16 Tom Brady's reputation and does he deserve an apology from
17:59:19 people? >> I think he deserves an
17:59:22 apology and it shouldn't tarnish his reputation at all.
17:59:25 We live in a quarterback-driven league.
17:59:27 The football is part of the quarterback's equipment, no
17:59:30 different than a helmet, shoes, facemask, anything else.
17:59:33 He touches the ball on every single play.
17:59:36 He should have the ball the way he wants it.
17:59:38 This is absurd. For Chris canty to say this is
17:59:41 equal to ped, that is a ridiculous statement.
17:59:43 >> And, Michael, your quick last thought?
17:59:48 >> You know, I want to piggyback on Rodney and Jim's point about
17:59:52 Mr. Canty. With all respect to him, I do
17:59:54 appreciate his candor and willingness to speak.
17:59:56 A lot of athletes don't give their opinions, but, you know,
18:00:01 NFL rule back is clear on this and maybe that's the issue.
18:00:04 The rule book says if there's a vie lace, tampering with the
18:00:08 ball is a $25,000 fine. For peds for an athlete like
18:00:13 canty or anybody else caught with peds, that's probably a
18:00:17 four-game suspension. I think if somebody went behind
18:00:19 the back of the officials, that's a real scandal.
18:00:22 We have a serious topic here. But if it just is happenstance
18:00:25 and the NFL can't figure it out with its csi investigation and
18:00:30 they figure out there's something real going on, you
18:00:34 beat them up, but if you can't find anything, it's probably a
18:00:38 $25,000 fine. >> All right.
18:00:40 Guys, thank you so much for join us.
18:00:42 Rachel, no one better to sit next to in all this.
18:00:47 >> Absolutely. Phoenix, here we come.
18:00:48 >> Special report from Rachel at the super bowl next weekend.
18:00:49 Tune in for that. Thanks, everyone, for watching.
18:00:51 I will be back here 7:00 eastern with a full hour of "Newsroom."
