#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
But lawyers hired to do internal investigate (say for harrassment cases) and report back to the company usually do not approach the job the same way they do in traditional advocacy situations, where *everything* the lawyer says is shaded toward the result the client wants. Maybe this is somewhere in beteween, because its not exactly "internal" (i.e., the league office), but its not quite advocacy.TheRealness said:
joe dokes said:
Well couldn't Brady have simply handed over three texts of the most innocuous variety then?
Doesn't a flat refusal instead of handing over three such pointless texts actually work in his favor? As in, this whole thing is so ridiculous I'm not giving you my phone, no way?
Here's the aspect of that which puzzles me a bit. The report draws a negative inference from this, saying it created an obstacle to the investigation.Yossarian said:
BUT -- they clearly got the devices of the two clowns.
So either TB communicated with them verbally, which would be smart and appears to be the case.
Or, TB texted them, which team Wells would have unless the two clowns expunged TB messages, which would be very weird since the non-TB messages are harmful enough. this appears not to be the case.
So TB not turning over his devices seems to matter not a bit, unless you make the unrealistic assumption that he communicated about deflation with anyone other than the two clowns.
Might be time to look into one of those text message purge apps that make deleted texts unrecoverable.
This is probably best case scenario for the Patriots, to be honest (other than some consipiracy that the Colts were involved).
The league kicked off this investigation because they, most likely, wanted to find out if the Patriots, as an organization, were involved in the deflating of footballs. Which would have been a much worse offense and resulted in a much steeper penalty for the organization. The fact that the report found that only Brady and a few rogue ball boys were likely to be involved without hard evidence is about as much of a 'ho hum' offense as can be hoped for.
The league knows this happens with QBs all over the league and so, hopefully, in their eyes this will amount to nothing but a small fine and a memo going out to all clubs to not fuck with footballs in the future.
The fact that the Patriots were exonerated really makes this a non-story.
The league kicked off this investigation because they, most likely, wanted to find out if the Patriots, as an organization, were involved in the deflating of footballs. Which would have been a much worse offense and resulted in a much steeper penalty for the organization. The fact that the report found that only Brady and a few rogue ball boys were likely to be involved without hard evidence is about as much of a 'ho hum' offense as can be hoped for.
The league knows this happens with QBs all over the league and so, hopefully, in their eyes this will amount to nothing but a small fine and a memo going out to all clubs to not fuck with footballs in the future.
The fact that the Patriots were exonerated really makes this a non-story.
Worried that the first thing Goodell will do once he finishes reading this report is strip the Pats of a pick in the next draft. Luckily the 2019 class looks weak so we shouldn't miss out on much.
You didn't say it, but many will read it that way. Putting fwiw ahead of your statement doesn't allow you to choose it's meaning.Corsi said:
WBV's comments on this are ridiculous. That very senior guys at Paul Weiss would be involved in this report should not be a surprise to anyone, much less a lawyer at a firm that is comparable to PW, which WBV is. (Or at least was at one point).
This report, like it or not, is going to be read WIDELY. It is going to be analyzed to death. If it was a piece of crap, it would hurt on some level PW's reputation. So while PW deals with much more weighty matters on a daily basis and while this whole thing is a freaking circus, it is rare when they issue a document that will be a barometer of the firm in the eyes of many in the public. Would they lose major transactional clients if they screwed it up? No. But bad press is bad press, and is to be avoided.
Put it this way. I also work at large, international law firm. We also do investigative reports for clients. If my firm was going to issue the Wells Report or anything remotely comparable, I sure as hell would would want some of our best and most senior people vetting it.
This report, like it or not, is going to be read WIDELY. It is going to be analyzed to death. If it was a piece of crap, it would hurt on some level PW's reputation. So while PW deals with much more weighty matters on a daily basis and while this whole thing is a freaking circus, it is rare when they issue a document that will be a barometer of the firm in the eyes of many in the public. Would they lose major transactional clients if they screwed it up? No. But bad press is bad press, and is to be avoided.
Put it this way. I also work at large, international law firm. We also do investigative reports for clients. If my firm was going to issue the Wells Report or anything remotely comparable, I sure as hell would would want some of our best and most senior people vetting it.
As has been mentioned, the report fails to list the PSI of each football before the game. It only says that 2 balls were under 12.5 and were inflated to 12.5. Seems kind of a key piece of evidence to be missing.
Hoya81 said:
I dont know....the texts from Brady that elicited the responses could be relevant.
In all manner of investigation, whether permissible or not, failure to cooperate is usually taken as hiding something. In criminal trials, of course, juries are specifically instructed that the defendant's refusal to testify should not be taken as a negative. But neither civil litigation nor intuition follows that rule.
It helps enormously that BB and Kraft were exonerated. Thankfully, that is headlining some of the reports, including one on ESPN.FL4WL3SS said:
But the team can be held to account for it's employees' actions, and that is what worries me most now.
One of the things that seems stunning about the report is that both McNally and Jastremski have been employed by the Pats for the entire period of Brady's career and despite this fact, and the sweeping investigative range of the Wells Report, they find no evidence of earlier practices that would violate the rule and in fact find evidence of hypersensitivity to complying with the rule. Yet despite their own findings around the Jets/Chicago games and despite lacking actual evidence or documentation of the 12.5 measurement before the AFCCG the report hangs its hat on the bathroom theory?
But it's more probably than not that you were generally aware that that would be the meaning people would get from your post.Corsi said:
Stitch01 said:
This sounds about right. Maybe a bit larger fine and a 5th rounder to match the Falcons' punishment.
Pretty close to what I expect. Brady $50k, team $100k, 3rd-round pick. And Jastremski/McNally shitcanned.Stitch01 said:
I didn't expect any punishment before the report released, and there is practically no new evidence aside from the texts, but the conclusion from Wells will be the downfall.
Use SnapChat/CyberDust like everybody else, you idiots.
How does Kraft even fire these two given the statement he made today? I trust they will be allowed around game balls no time soon, and frankly rules ought to be changed.
Brady brought this on himself long term by joining with Manning over ball prep.
He may have brought it on himself short term by making a smart ass remark about a remark made by Harbaugh after a frustrating loss.
Brady brought this on himself long term by joining with Manning over ball prep.
He may have brought it on himself short term by making a smart ass remark about a remark made by Harbaugh after a frustrating loss.
WayBackVazquez said:
Similarly, if Exponent thinks Paul, Weiss and the NFL want a finding of wrongdoing, they will do everything in their power to conclude there was wrongdoing. Exponent partners are fully aware of what their clients want.
In this report, there was wide latitude for Exponent to conclude whatever they wanted. From p160 of the Wells PDF:
Those assumptions and information that is not certain was provided by Paul, Weiss. Exponent writes this explicitly:
Exponent left themselves a hole wide enough to drive a spaceship through.
For those calling out WBV- some partners at litigation consulting, management consulting, and law firms strongly believe that they provide the truth to their clients regardless of what the clients want. But many partners will admit their client biases the outcome. And associates at those firms will tell you that they are implicitly or explicitly told by the partners on those cases what their clients want.
I'm not really surprised that this report turned out similarly to the Dolphins Wells report: Management not implicated. Head coach not implicated. Players and low-level employees thrown under the bus. I bet Tom Brady is very pissed right now. He's much more valuable to his team than Richie Incognito was.
Anyway, bottom line: This report proves little. I'm pretty surprised it's so many pages of so little information.
brandonchristensen said:
Just remind him that this game was played with properly inflated footballs overseen by a "neutral party."
If he does fire them there has to be some concern about one or both of them going to the media and saying things (true or not) that the Patriots won't like very much.
So basically they expected him to respond to electronic discovery requests without actually having, you know, pending litigation.
This whole "we offered" to not take his actual phone is absolutely ludicrous, since they wouldn't get that in a lawsuit. This is what I'm talking about.
dcmissle said:
This is just stupid. Brady either knew that there were shenanigans with the balls--in which case he brought it on himself and serves the lambasting he's getting--or there wasn't intentional deflation/he didn't know about it--in which case his reputation is just getting fucked for nothing.
"On Thursday, January 22, Belichick reportedly discussed these issues for the first time with Brady, shortly before a team meeting. Belichick asked Brady directly whether he had any knowledge about any of the issues raised by the press since the AFC Championship Game. According to Belichick, Brady said “absolutely not.” Belichick stated that he then asked if Brady or anyone Brady knew had tampered with or in any way altered the footballs. Brady again denied any knowledge or involvement. Belichick recalled that Brady also explained that once he inspects and approves game balls, those balls are exactly as he likes them and that he would not want anyone to do anything to them after that point. Belichick believed Brady. Belichick and Brady attended the team meeting, and Belichick told the team that there was “not one shred of truth” to the deflation allegations. When given the floor, Brady repeated what he had told Belichick about wanting game balls to be exactly as he approved them."
Would Brady repeatedly lie to Belichick and then to the rest of the team?
Would Brady repeatedly lie to Belichick and then to the rest of the team?
As suspected, the report reveals Pats had lawyers working this from the moment it broke.
Right now, this is a PR battle. Sadly, that's how Goodell is going to decide. In that context, it is not productive to attack the report the next few days. It is productive to highlight all of the reports assumptions, equivocations and good points -- and get them into the hands of credible people with a wide audience.
Right now, this is a PR battle. Sadly, that's how Goodell is going to decide. In that context, it is not productive to attack the report the next few days. It is productive to highlight all of the reports assumptions, equivocations and good points -- and get them into the hands of credible people with a wide audience.
Regardless of what happens to Brady and the Pats, I hope our punishment is having to labor through another tedious SB winning season.
soxhop411 said:
And watch the NFLPA go to holy war on Goodell. I would imagine it would start with a request to see his email and texts.
mauidano said:
In all sincerity, there's no bigger loser in all of this than Mark Brunell. I mean, he fucking cried. Cried.
Brady suspended from all pre-season games and one regular season game. Allowed to practice with team.
Pats fined $1mm and lose 2016 second-rounder for not fully cooperating with investigation and not overseeing employees properly.
Edit: I think a suspension is more likely than a fine for Brady because the NFLPA won't allow a big enough fine. Easier to suspend him without pay for 1 regular-season game, I expect.
Pats fined $1mm and lose 2016 second-rounder for not fully cooperating with investigation and not overseeing employees properly.
Edit: I think a suspension is more likely than a fine for Brady because the NFLPA won't allow a big enough fine. Easier to suspend him without pay for 1 regular-season game, I expect.
dcmissle said:
Hasn't this always been nothing but a PR battle?
Lots of posters here have tried to apply pseudo-legal principles to this investigations and are hung on on things like burden of proof or lack of evidence. But none of that has ever mattered. I am 100% confident that this report was written the way it was for a specific reason. That the delay was not to complete an investigation but to think though the various ways this could fall out and how it could be messaged/controlled.
We might never find out the reasoning or understand it, but there is certainly a reason that Brady looks like the bad guy and not Bill or Kraft or the Pats, etc... It was a sham at the beginning, it's a sham now and it will be a sham when whatever "punishment is announced"
Oh, it's worse for us than that:mauidano said:
"This is a serious competitive violation that has to be treated as such by the league." Bill Polian on Wells Report, via NFL Insiders.
Say what you want about Polian, and I'll probably agree. Just don't tell me he does not still have influence.
dcmissle said:
If it was a serious competitive violation - and again keep in mind that all the report said was that it was more probable than not they took air out of the balls - wouldn't the rule book have something more than a $25K fine as a punishment?
I'm still at a loss how it's a serious violation when the standard we have is that it is more likely than not that Brady may have had a general idea.