#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Otis Foster said:
This is not an internal investigation conducted for the purpose of obtaining legal advice. This is an entirely different animal.
According to the report the referees are on the record as having measured the ball pressure pregame, though it wasn't recorded (and really there's no fucking reason so we shouldn't expect that), and that all the balls were within legal specs. Because of the halftime tests those readings were recorded. There really isn't evidence of anything here, except that the Patriots balls deflated more than the Colts' ones if the referee crew was telling the truth about the measurements of the balls (which I strongly suspect that they weren't based on the differences between expected deflation due to conditions and actual measured deflation).kartvelo said:
Because they don't really have jack all here they're doubling down on the 90 second piss stop as being the point where McNally breaks out the needles and gages to deflate the balls. This doesn't seem all that likely in the grand scheme of things, which is why they're couching everything in doublespeak and using the text messages of the two meatheads as the centerpiece of the report.
There is no Rev said:
Yes, and we basically have Spy Gate II.
"Generally" kinda sorta aware becomes "HE KNEW IT & LIED ABOUT IT"
Otis Foster said:
If you don't think Paul Weiss or Sullivan or Kirkland & Ellis or any of the other top powerhouses absolutely structure reports--and the investigations supporting them--as advocates with a goal of getting an optimal result/report for their client given the undisputable facts I don't know what to tell you.
NortheasternPJ said:
I hope so.
Having attorneys read through a filing or a report is common practice. Listing them on the cover of the report indicates authorship or substantial participation.
Corsi said:
I'm a lawyer (or LAWYER, if you prefer). I think you're a fuckin' dink. Shut up.
Scriblerus said:
This did not happen. Aaron Rodgers did NOT admit to tampering with footballs, at least not publicly. A reporter said something to that effect. What he himself said it that he wanted them inflated as much as possible and they tried to get them past the refs--so basically they inflated as much as they thought they could get away with which is different from altering the balls after official measurement. So put it to rest.
It still seems to me that the approach by the Patriots and Brady could be similar and I don't see anything in the report that would disqualify that as a possibility.
TheoShmeo said:
FIFA's Ethics report is getting an independent review, isn't it? Not sure if that generates more attention worldwide than this because America, but, yeah, I dunno.
I'm not sure if the league can do much more than with the other ball violations. They are pretty good at following precedent once it has been established (although sometimes it takes an appeal to get it there.)
As for TB's "reluctance" to assist the investigation, that will probably get an additional punishment ... my bet would be $100K.
Until there's a poll, I'm going with a Pat's 2016 6th rounder that Kraft accepts (which he has already indicated in his statement ... as if he already knows the punishment) and $100K for TB which he appeals.
Suspending TB hurts the league as much as it hurts the Pats and TB.
As for TB's "reluctance" to assist the investigation, that will probably get an additional punishment ... my bet would be $100K.
Until there's a poll, I'm going with a Pat's 2016 6th rounder that Kraft accepts (which he has already indicated in his statement ... as if he already knows the punishment) and $100K for TB which he appeals.
Suspending TB hurts the league as much as it hurts the Pats and TB.
Reading the top comments on PFT is really is sad and infuriating:
"so thats how late 6th round picks win in the NFL…they CHEAT"
That's how Brady's legacy goes down? Fuck you. Seriously, FUCK YOU.
"so thats how late 6th round picks win in the NFL…they CHEAT"
That's how Brady's legacy goes down? Fuck you. Seriously, FUCK YOU.
NortheasternPJ said:
There are like a hundred partners at Paul, Weiss. They're not all going to review this. The ones working on the case certainly did, many, many times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garcia_ReportTheoShmeo said:
Just outside the three-month window, but significantly bigger than this.
BusRaker said:
Can't see this happening. It would get overturned in a heartbeat and the NFLPA would be all over them. They have no obligation to turn over personal information, and no punishment for such a "violation" will stand.
Has anyone seen in the report how Weiss got a hold of these texts in the first place? Was it an official NFL phone or something? Did he voluntarily hand them over? I haven't seen it, or maybe I missed it in this avalanche of words.
Right - and as previously pointed out (e.g., by crystalline and me), the Patriots dropped by something like 0.45ish PSI on average below what the expected level should be.nighthob said:
If you change the assumptions slightly (and by slightly, I mean you move the measurement time backwards by 1 minute) you are well within the realm of what the Patriots balls should be. You can see that by simply looking at Figure 29, and comparing it to table 14.
Honestly, the more I read the Exponent report, the harder time I have having it match the investigative report before it. It could very well be said, I think, that (per table 14), the Pats balls were pretty close to expected inflation levels, and we just can't really tell if they were below, and if they were, it was pretty insignificant. Its weird that that isn't really the story line - or at least that isn't presented as a pretty viable story line.
sodenj5 said:
Let's not compare letting air out of footballs with battering your significant other and then paying her to disappear.
The underlying behaviors are so dissimilar as to render any comparison invalid.
WayBackVazquez said:
But its also not quite like an advocacy piece prepared to defend/represent against an adversary. I think that's why even the lawyers (this one, anyway) are having a hard time with the extent to which PW would shade stuff or provide only limited information to the hired experts.
Stitch01 said:
More likely than not of having a general idea of what may be going on. Try to keep up!
Ok, it's an investigation of a team that's a constituent member of the NFL (literally), as distinct from an investigation of staff conduct, although it presumably looks at that too. Please tell me how your conduct would be different.WayBackVazquez said:
This wasn't a prosecutorial presentation to a grand jury. It was intended to ascertain as closely as possible whether or not there was culpable behavior. The only thing I question is how they justify reaching conclusions in the absence of direct evidence, and that really goes to the charge they received from Goodell -did he tell them he wanted their conclusions, hedged as they deemed necessary?
I know Ted Wells and PW and can tell you that anyone who claims they slanted the report to a desired outcome literally doesn't know jack shit. You can hate the outcome, as I do, but there's no basis for slandering PW.
Is there an NFL rule that requires players to make a report to the league if they're aware of violations of league rules? If not, I don't see how Brady gets punished.
I suspect the franchise gets hit for something comparable to the penalty imposed on the Falcons. Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, and that's who we're dealing with.
I suspect the franchise gets hit for something comparable to the penalty imposed on the Falcons. Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, and that's who we're dealing with.
joe dokes said:
And as I said initially, it all depends on what PW believed the client wanted the result to be. As to PW's communications with Exponent, I would love to see them made public. Though I have no doubt we would learn that there's very little in the way of written instructions.
Joshv02 said:
Yeah, I'm giving the Exponent section a second read now and they're very clearly leaving themselves enough wiggle room to crowd surf through Calcutta. I said about 300 pages ago that my best guess is that the balls weren't really gage tested pre-game and the refs gave them the old "test one and then feel the rest" test, and this really confirms for me that this is the most likely circumstance.
Stitch01 said:
If you read the report and don't think Brady was ordering the ball boys to monkey with the balls in violation of the rules, I really don't know what to tell you.
Edited to add:
(1) Wells says Brady lied to him. Goodell has consistently over-punished people found to have lied.
(2) The better way to say what I said initially is that Wells clearly believes Brady ordered the ball boys to monkey with the balls, and that's more than enough for Goodell to go after him hard.
I think the organization will get a heavy fine for what it's employees are found to have "probably" done, under a captain of the ship doctrine.
I think Brady will receive a one-game suspension. It will be interesting how it is couched, but I could see the commissioner saying something like: Although there is no evidence of direction from Brady, there is a finding that he more likely than not had some awareness of what the employees were doing. We hold NFL players to a high standard. Accordingly, we are suspending him for not taking more proactive measures to keep the employees in check.
(It should go without saying, but I hope we can post our guesses here, without having the defend them in terms of whether the underlying factual assumptions are true or not true. We have a going-on-400 page thread for that. I'm making a prediction of what I think will happen, and how it will go down, not whether I agree with it. My "high standard" language is kind of silly considering the Ray Rice situation, but that's the way the Gingy Hammer tends to talk.)
I think Brady will receive a one-game suspension. It will be interesting how it is couched, but I could see the commissioner saying something like: Although there is no evidence of direction from Brady, there is a finding that he more likely than not had some awareness of what the employees were doing. We hold NFL players to a high standard. Accordingly, we are suspending him for not taking more proactive measures to keep the employees in check.
(It should go without saying, but I hope we can post our guesses here, without having the defend them in terms of whether the underlying factual assumptions are true or not true. We have a going-on-400 page thread for that. I'm making a prediction of what I think will happen, and how it will go down, not whether I agree with it. My "high standard" language is kind of silly considering the Ray Rice situation, but that's the way the Gingy Hammer tends to talk.)
Of course they do -when they're engaged as advocates. That's not the way we conduct business when the client says 'let the chips fall where they may'.Shelterdog said:
I think it's both overly cynical and naïve to think that PW issued a "made to order" report in any respect.
PW is an excellent firm with a terrific reputation. It is also not a Johnny Come Lately. The notion that they would risk their reputation for having the highest degree of integrity over the level of fees in this matter and from the NFL is a joke.
PW plays for the long haul.
PS: That doesn't mean that the report doesn't make mistakes or wasn't wrong headed in certain ways.
PW is an excellent firm with a terrific reputation. It is also not a Johnny Come Lately. The notion that they would risk their reputation for having the highest degree of integrity over the level of fees in this matter and from the NFL is a joke.
PW plays for the long haul.
PS: That doesn't mean that the report doesn't make mistakes or wasn't wrong headed in certain ways.
What on earth in that report could possibly lead to the conclusion that it was "more probable than not" that any individual in the Pats organization did something illegal, without presenting any evidence that anything illegal ever happened?Otis Foster said: