#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
I think there was tampering with the balls. I think TB must have guessed it, even if he didn't actually know it.
I think the league never considered these to be major breaches of the rules. When Grigson first called, the reaction was: Just let the refs keep an eye on this. This may have been a desire to let BB fall into a trap, it may be because at that point, they didn't think this was that big a deal. I rather lean towards the latter.
When Grigson heard from Pagano during the game that the ball was soft (and I don't know in fact what triggered that), Grigson called Kensil - I believe - and basically said: We warned you guys, why didn't you do something about it. The NFL was now on the spot,
So Alexander and crew are sent down to measure the balls. Incredibly, despite the breaches in his own security measures before the game - the ball guy entering the field with the crew -, he made a botch of his testing. He had no base records, he didn't know which gauge was used on which balls, he never finished a comparable testing of the Colt balls. What he did find was that a number of Patriots balls were underinflated.
Then the leaks began. I don't know if they came from Kensil and the office, or the Colts.Probably the latter initially, witness Kravitz and Doyel. Now the NFL was in a bind. The last thing they wanted to do is to explain that they knew about the potential problem, underestimated the consequences, and the Colts leaking the story so it became a big deal. The Colts in effect had the NFL by the sort hairs. They knew they'd warned the league in advance, and pretty well surmised that the league hadn't done much about it in advance.
The only other culprits of course were the NEP, Brady and BB. They had to be whacked. This is so even though prior incidents, e.g. Carolina and the Vikings heating balls on the sideline, indicate the NFL never thought much about these issues. Now, Goodell has to treat this like a breach of a nuclear protocol, and he calls in Wells.
So here we are. The train of events turns this into a shitshow. Still, the bottom line is the offence isn't a big deal. That is, until TB and Kraft decide for whatever reason not to cooperate. We've been over those issues before.- there was apparently a way for TB to do the filtering so personal matters are removed or redacted. They said they'd take him at his word. TB refused.
Meanwhile, Kraft decides for some reason that he'll become McNally's shield. He resists Wells having a second bob at the apple. The prior interviews were conducted by the NFL. No experienced investigator would let it go at that. This was a perfectly logical request. Even if McNally confirmed the ball tampering, or TB's emails indicated he knew this, after all we're talking about a minor offense (maybe a bit more than minor with a repeat offender). The only other possibility was that McNally and TB's records would reveal something more far reaching- what, I don't know, but I'm beginning to think there is something nuclear there..
So now, through a combination of misjudgments and laxness by the NFL, TB and Kraft, they're in the middle of a real mess. I don't think it will end well, and I think the stonewalling gave the NFL a compelling reason for the heavy penalties, when cooperation probably would have resulted in something far less.
I think the league never considered these to be major breaches of the rules. When Grigson first called, the reaction was: Just let the refs keep an eye on this. This may have been a desire to let BB fall into a trap, it may be because at that point, they didn't think this was that big a deal. I rather lean towards the latter.
When Grigson heard from Pagano during the game that the ball was soft (and I don't know in fact what triggered that), Grigson called Kensil - I believe - and basically said: We warned you guys, why didn't you do something about it. The NFL was now on the spot,
So Alexander and crew are sent down to measure the balls. Incredibly, despite the breaches in his own security measures before the game - the ball guy entering the field with the crew -, he made a botch of his testing. He had no base records, he didn't know which gauge was used on which balls, he never finished a comparable testing of the Colt balls. What he did find was that a number of Patriots balls were underinflated.
Then the leaks began. I don't know if they came from Kensil and the office, or the Colts.Probably the latter initially, witness Kravitz and Doyel. Now the NFL was in a bind. The last thing they wanted to do is to explain that they knew about the potential problem, underestimated the consequences, and the Colts leaking the story so it became a big deal. The Colts in effect had the NFL by the sort hairs. They knew they'd warned the league in advance, and pretty well surmised that the league hadn't done much about it in advance.
The only other culprits of course were the NEP, Brady and BB. They had to be whacked. This is so even though prior incidents, e.g. Carolina and the Vikings heating balls on the sideline, indicate the NFL never thought much about these issues. Now, Goodell has to treat this like a breach of a nuclear protocol, and he calls in Wells.
So here we are. The train of events turns this into a shitshow. Still, the bottom line is the offence isn't a big deal. That is, until TB and Kraft decide for whatever reason not to cooperate. We've been over those issues before.- there was apparently a way for TB to do the filtering so personal matters are removed or redacted. They said they'd take him at his word. TB refused.
Meanwhile, Kraft decides for some reason that he'll become McNally's shield. He resists Wells having a second bob at the apple. The prior interviews were conducted by the NFL. No experienced investigator would let it go at that. This was a perfectly logical request. Even if McNally confirmed the ball tampering, or TB's emails indicated he knew this, after all we're talking about a minor offense (maybe a bit more than minor with a repeat offender). The only other possibility was that McNally and TB's records would reveal something more far reaching- what, I don't know, but I'm beginning to think there is something nuclear there..
So now, through a combination of misjudgments and laxness by the NFL, TB and Kraft, they're in the middle of a real mess. I don't think it will end well, and I think the stonewalling gave the NFL a compelling reason for the heavy penalties, when cooperation probably would have resulted in something far less.
Van Everyman said:
The Globe is completely selling out on the Patriots are getting what they deserve. Gasper, CHB, Volin have all gone strongly against the Pats. Manza Young is the only one taking a more open view.
OnWisc said:
Never. Unless the NFL sued Wells for malpractice or somesuch. One of the responsibilities of getting paid a fucktillion dollars an hour is that you can't respond to every arrow fired your way.
EDIT: what PBDW said. And to be clear, the amount of $$$ Wells got is really irrelevant. Airing clients' laundry in any setting other than getting sued is the ticket to a new career.
I'm curious to know the end game for Kraft and the team.
The wellsreportincontext site does a good job overall in offering a rebuttal. But the PR battle is a losing one. Joe Sportsfan has already made up his mind because he badly wants to live in a world where the Patriots are cheaters, and JoeMediaHottakez is going to cater to Joe Sportsfan. People are getting worked about how the media only cares about the "deflator" argument but if it wasn't that, it would be something else. There's no world in which the Patriots release a rebuttal like this and it actually turns the tide of public opinion.
Mainly, what the report seems to do is (a) make the league office look bad and (b) indicate that the Patriots are willing to double down on everything going forward in whatever proceedings arise, whether appeals or legal ones. To what end? I'm not unhappy about them putting out the rebuttal. I just wonder how it fits into a larger strategy.
The wellsreportincontext site does a good job overall in offering a rebuttal. But the PR battle is a losing one. Joe Sportsfan has already made up his mind because he badly wants to live in a world where the Patriots are cheaters, and JoeMediaHottakez is going to cater to Joe Sportsfan. People are getting worked about how the media only cares about the "deflator" argument but if it wasn't that, it would be something else. There's no world in which the Patriots release a rebuttal like this and it actually turns the tide of public opinion.
Mainly, what the report seems to do is (a) make the league office look bad and (b) indicate that the Patriots are willing to double down on everything going forward in whatever proceedings arise, whether appeals or legal ones. To what end? I'm not unhappy about them putting out the rebuttal. I just wonder how it fits into a larger strategy.
The Patriots did miss a glorious opportunity on the site they set up. It would have been much better if the page header had a Red Challenge Flag sitting next to the football.
dcmissle said:
I hope not. That didn't turn out so good. We don't want Goodell sneaking up behind him with sunglasses and a shotgun.
RIFan said:
Roll over the top left "My Site", and you'll see that the theme is "Big Brother." That's sort of amusing.
This report has a lot of good things in it including the line about the Indy ball boys accused of having needles in their shirts. However, with that Deflator explanation by the Patriots the public perception of this report has already been set. The sheep aren't going to take the time to read it and just go with "HAHA Deflator weight loss".
Appreciate the responses. Things seem to be getting more surreal by the hour and with the apparently atypical decision to have a call the other day and the increasing criticism of the report itself I was wondering if there was any chance Wells would try to distance himself from the NFL in some way. Seems like a shitshow all around.
I wonder if this will provoke further response from the NFL or Wells, or if they'll just let the appeals process play out.
RedOctober3829 said:
I get that. But if the "sheep before" and "sheep after" cancel each other out (because they have the same view no matter what), that still leaves a large number of somewhat-non-sheep. On balance, it might help the defense; but I dont see it hurting.
The idea that JJ was referring to someone else and not Brady and possibly something else besides doing something to the footballs seems a little far fetched as well.
Mcnally: "Tom sucks..I'm going to make the next ball a freakin balloon"
Less than two minutes later:
JJ: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done"
That doesn't mean they were doing anything illegal but seems like a real stretch there.
Mcnally: "Tom sucks..I'm going to make the next ball a freakin balloon"
Less than two minutes later:
JJ: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done"
That doesn't mean they were doing anything illegal but seems like a real stretch there.
notfar said:
That is the true irony. The Pats are getting pounded for the "cover up, not the crime", but it is the NFL that is trying to cover up.
Unlikely, but I don’t think you can discount any action from Goodell--and that is exactly how authoritarians and dictators want you to think of them.BigSoxFan said:
BigSoxFan said:
Is ESPN providing wall-to-wall coverage of the rebuttal, like they did for the Wells report? Is the NFL Network? Are the commentators giving it the same level of respect, or are they dismissing it as the Patriots just covering their asses?
(these are not rhetorical questions...I'm at work and can't find out for myself...)
Ed Hillel said:
One of the ideas of a rebuttal like this is it takes time to sway public opinion. Unless you have a definitive smoking gun (we're talking Nixon White House tapes approving the Watergate cover up-level smoking gun) you have to prime the pump and prepare people to change their mind. They are putting enough info out there to make people start to question their opinion and then they can drop the text message, that on it's own, at the height of the hysteria, wouldn't be enough to change opinion, but suddenly people find more believable.
I think the Pats response to the Wells report gives Kraft a lot of talking points with the other owners regarding the objectivity and fairness of the NFL's conclusions and penalties. And perhaps a couple of powerful envoys (Jones, Mara, Rooney) can approach Goodell to broker a deal that reduces the penalties with sufficient cover (the Pats side of the story ripping Wells) to avoid a full blown PR/court battle aimed at totally trashing Goodell.
Gambler7 said:
I mean, I knew that original report was total garbage when I read it, but when it's put into context like this it is so much worse.
Bob420 said:
The texts are Rorschach tests--they're indicative of a plot to deflate footballs illegally only if you're looking for evidence to support that conclusion. At least there are plausible (possibly even "more probable than not") explanations for their context.
If you actually read the whole website and push aside the ridiculous discussions about the text messages and science that could be argued either way and provide no actual proof of anything, this makes Wells looks completely incompetent and the report very much incomplete. It also makes the NFL look terrible and that they absolutely pre-judged before any investigation. I think that's the overall point, to discredit the whole situation and everyone involved.theapportioner said:
Man, I wouldn't hire Ted Wells to defend me for a speeding ticket after the last week or so. What a joke.
RedOctober3829 said:
Not necessarily. The football media is furiously working the angles as we speak to get a big scoop backing one of the items brought up the rebuttal. If Adam Schefter or one of his pals finds someone who says, yeah, the Indy ball boys walked around with needles, no one but the most diehard Pats detractors is going to remember that deflator explanation.
lol NFLN
NFL Network @nflnetwork 58s58 seconds ago
According to @MikeSilver, the Patriots rebuttal "insults our intelligence." This is why: http://at.nfl.com/KIL8rxc
NFL Network @nflnetwork 58s58 seconds ago
According to @MikeSilver, the Patriots rebuttal "insults our intelligence." This is why: http://at.nfl.com/KIL8rxc
JimD said:
At this point, may as well just make that evidence public. The cat's out of the bag.
Jacksonville probably called them after this whole thing blew up and spilled the beans. Gotta love how the NFL operates.
soxhop411 said:
Who said that, Silver? The wacky biology teacher from Fast Times at Ridgemont High?
moondog80 said:
Mike SIlver has been THE biggest proponent of the Wells Report since day 1. Not surprising.
As suggested when the Wells report came out, the Pats should buy 1/2 hour on ESPN to destroy the Wells report and its objectivity.
tims4wins said:
Careful. That's like saying you wouldn't hire Aaron Hernandez's lawyer because he was convicted. Lawyers have clients. It may be that Wells's report is shit. But it may have been the best job possible under the circumstances, given who his client is and the limitations he was placed under.
CaptainLaddie said:
Not all. If you listen to the popular Around the NFL podcast, pretty much everyone is on board with how ridiculous the punishment is, not to mention the joke that Wells report is.
It's to a point where they joke (OMG they are joking!) about how Goodell is listening on them, and how Mike Silver is going off on the Patriots & need a worthy debater to oppose him on TV.