#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
8,876
PedroKsBambino said:
 
If there were a deal, there's no chance it would be explicitly linked to this.  It would be a back-room understanding.  So I could not be less surprised that the leaking league official said what he did.
 
Bingo.  The fact that media people are responding to Bedard's report with anything but this amazes me.
 

genoasalami

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2006
2,591
ernieshore said:
Honest question - any chance this is a move by Kraft to get the owners back on his side, and then ultimately oust Goodell?
 
Though from all the reports of Kraft and Roger bro-hugging, it doesn't sound like it. 
 
maybe ..just maybe ....there were shenanigans with the ball ...maybe Brady did have a huge role it in?? Despite all the pom pom waving here, it is entirely possible Kraft just said screw it ...we got caught and they absolutely nailed us..time to move on...
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,933
Here
Bah Gawn, is that Kyle Eckel's music???
 

maybe ..just maybe ....there were shenanigans with the ball ...maybe Brady did have a huge role it in?? Despite all the pom pom waving here, it is entirely possible Kraft just said screw it ...we got caught and they absolutely nailed us..time to move on...
 
If you ignore what has happened the entire last 4 months or so, you may be on to something.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,462
Section15Box113 said:
Just win, baby.
 
So Kraft takes *that* part of Al Davis and runs with it.  The at-war with the universe, decomposing, franchise-destroying part he leaves behind.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
50,374
rodderick said:
 
You think there's no difference between the "ire" the Patriots drew in 2005 and the ire they draw now? People don't give a shit about haters, people give a shit about their team's accomplishments being dismissed at every step.
You really believe that a "fight" whatever taht means, would exonerate the Patriots in the eyes of the public? That is pure fantasy. Read Kraft's statement. No opposing fans will ever concede that the Patriots are innocent, regardless of what happens going forward.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,991
deep inside Guido territory
Ed Hillel said:
 
Well, the NFL wouldn't want to go around setting a terrible precedent or anything...
Do you actually think that a quid pro quo deal would be made that apparent?  There's no way.  The process still will play out and hopefully by doing this Kraft helped Brady's cause.  If it doesn't, then it looks like Kraft gave in to Goodell and as a Pats fan I'd be pretty mad if that is how it played out.  But, as I said, let's let this play out through the appeal and federal court if possible.
 

H78

Fists of Millennial Fury!
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,613
Section15Box113 said:
Just win, baby.
This team will never win again in the Brady, BB era. After today, in the court of public opinion, the best they can do from this day forward is win*.
 

fairlee76

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,661
jp
There is no Rev said:
 

 
Somebody should slap a Tom Brady jersey on that cat.
If that cat was Tom Brady, it would be walking on a Jetson's-style elevated walkway taunting the shit out of those dogs.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
genoasalami said:
 
maybe ..just maybe ....there were shenanigans with the ball ...maybe Brady did have a huge role it in?? Despite all the pom pom waving here, it is entirely possible Kraft just said screw it ...we got caught and they absolutely nailed us..time to move on...
Theoretically possible, much like its theoretically possible for you to be correct or post something positive about anything Patriots related once ever, but still waiting for actual evidence on both fronts.
 

Rice14

New Member
Apr 23, 2008
61
South Florida
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
You really believe that a "fight" whatever taht means, would exonerate the Patriots in the eyes of the public? That is pure fantasy. Read Kraft's statement. No opposing fans will ever concede that the Patriots are innocent, regardless of what happens going forward.
 
Yep, just like there's no smoking gun that proves the Patriots were guilty, there's no smoking gun that can prove they are innocent. In the court of public opinion minds are already made up one way or another. A long, drawn out fight wouldn't have changed anything and would have just kept the story alive for a lot longer than it should have been.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,933
Here
RedOctober3829 said:
Do you actually think that a quid pro quo deal would be made that apparent?  There's no way.  The process still will play out and hopefully by doing this Kraft helped Brady's cause.  If it doesn't, then it looks like Kraft gave in to Goodell and as a Pats fan I'd be pretty mad if that is how it played out.  But, as I said, let's let this play out through the appeal and federal court if possible.
 
I don't think Kraft would agree to such a deal without Brady's consent, and I don't think Brady would consent to such a deal being made, because he wants to proceed based on merits and not some sort of political dealings. Kraft was better off just not saying anything and letting it be than getting up there and giving that speech. Kraft stood down to the rest of the league is what happened; that was a public shaming for stepping out of line with the WellsReportContext thing. I don't think that had anything to do with a deal being made. In fact, I think that's now less likely because of how it would be perceived, at least on Goodell's appeal. It won't impact the legal appeal.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,462
H78 said:
This team will never win again in the Brady, BB era. After today, in the court of public opinion, the best they can do from this day forward is win*.
 
Q: What would have changed that *.
 
A: Nothing.
 
 
In fact, to the minds of the many that Kraft was referring to, all of their SB victories were the product of cheating anyway. 
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,633
Corsi said:
 
Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard  29s30 seconds ago
Belief in league circles is NFLPA has found the perfect player & case to go big-game hunting and change commissioner discipline forever.
 
 
Totally agree with this.  The guy has a wife with a history of defending her man and $300 mil in her bank account, he has spent an entire career building and defending his rep, the underlying facts are somewhere between non-existant and circumstantial, and the NFL managed to make up a new process mid-stream during the penalty assessment.
 
The smart move for Goodell is to get rid of Brady's suspension regardless of whatever Kraft did or didn't do today---I've said previously Brady is the single worst guy in the entire NFL for RG to go to war with---literally, the worst possible choice.
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,966
Kudos to the folks who change the title of this thread from time to time.  Very engaging headline-writing.
 

BoredViewer

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
3,092
I genuinely believe the Patriots are guilty of something, too.... and I'm still pissed at this.  It's like giving a guy 10 years in prison for unconfirmed jay walking.  
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,849
306, row 14
Pursuing legal action was likely a futile effort and something that would lead to an airing of dirty laundry on both sides, so I get Kraft's decision to lay down his arms. It just sucks to watch the team get completely railroaded like that. At least with Spy Gate there was proof that a rule was indeed broken. That was also a wild overreaction to a rule technicality, but at least there was a rule broken in that case.

What hurts the most is Brady getting his legacy and reputation dragged into the mud. Shame on the league for hanging the GOAT out to dry.
 

SeanBerry

Knows about the CBA.
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2003
3,599
Section 519
Stitch01 said:
I'll bet $500 to the Jimmy Fund to you perma leaving the site that you are wrong.
 
Step up son.
 
So I can never post again if Tom Brady doesn't get entire suspension vacated by Roger Goodell?
 
If Goodell doesn't vacate entire suspension, you have to pay Jimmy Fund $500?
 
Sounds fair to me. I'm in.
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,843
My Desk
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
And that would have been a noble goal which would have made the league better.
 
You can argue causation v. correlation here but Bob Kraft and the NFL owners know they are wealthier today than they were when Goodell took over. Every sports commissioner gets called an idiot by fans. Yet, so long as revenues increase they are bulletproof. 
 
 
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
PedroKsBambino said:
 
Totally agree with this.  The guy has a wife with a history of defending her man and $300 mil in her bank account, he has spent an entire career building and defending his rep, the underlying facts are somewhere between non-existant and circumstantial, and the NFL managed to make up a new process mid-stream during the penalty assessment.
 
The smart move for Goodell is to get rid of Brady's suspension regardless of whatever Kraft did or didn't do today---I've said previously Brady is the single worst guy in the entire NFL for RG to go to war with---literally, the worst possible choice.
Particularly with this case and this evidence.
 

canvass ali

New Member
Jul 17, 2005
88
Attleboro MA
Corsi said:
 
Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard  29s30 seconds ago
Belief in league circles is NFLPA has found the perfect player & case to go big-game hunting and change commissioner discipline forever.
 
 
I've suspected for a while that Goodell is out to burnish his reputation, trying to cast himself as the Bart Giamatti of football and handcuffing Tom Brady to the role of Pete Rose.  Next he'll produce a piece of lyric prose called "Green Backs of the Mind"
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,933
Here
H78 said:
This team will never win again in the Brady, BB era. After today, in the court of public opinion, the best they can do from this day forward is win*.
 
Ok, that's about enough of this. It's been that way for 7 years; time to step back into reality.
 

redsoxcentury

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
2,244
NYC
If this was about a butt-hurt Colts team mad about the Patriots success having a division rival of the Colts (ie Texans) on your side isn't terrible.

But this is really about 2 or 3 teams airing mildly dirty innocuous laundry because of one teams success not thinking about "all 32 teams" as Bob Kraft is about. At least he looks better among the majority of other owners/teams, one can hope
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
SeanBerry said:
 
So I can never post again if Tom Brady doesn't get entire suspension vacated by Roger Goodell?
 
If Goodell doesn't vacate entire suspension, you have to pay Jimmy Fund $500?
 
Sounds fair to me. I'm in.
Kudos for stepping up.
 

SeanBerry

Knows about the CBA.
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2003
3,599
Section 519
rodderick said:
 
Maybe a fucking Jets fan should think about stepping away from the discussion when it's half an hour old and clearly involves an emotional subject to Pats fans here.
 
It's football. No one died. Stop overreacting.
 

fairlee76

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,661
jp
H78 said:
This team will never win again in the Brady, BB era. After today, in the court of public opinion, the best they can do from this day forward is win*.
In 2015, if you're over the age of 15 and you believe your team is winning without any sort of * (PEDs, pushing the boundaries on rules, etc.), then I am not sure I care all that much about your opinion.  (Not you H78.  You public opinion.)
 

TheMoralBully

New Member
Oct 10, 2005
157
I doubt this has anything to do with Brady.  Brady has the NFLPA and his own strong case, the team gave him some initial support but I'm sure that's a separate thing at this point.
 
We knew this was coming with Kraft, I'm not sure why there's any surprise.  The legal experts here have said repeatedly the Patriot's really had no method of attack in this.  Wellsreportcontext.com was probably more for PR purposes for Patriot's fans on the fence than anything else.  It did also sway some national writers like Florio, so it wasn't entirely ineffective.  I was disappointed in the lack of conviction in the Kraft PC, but I can't blame the guy for giving up.  We keep looking for silver linings or positives that never come in all of this, and ultimately we're just going to have to hopefully settle for 13 wins and a blowout over the Colts.
 

ragnarok725

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2003
6,564
Somerville MA
JimBoSox9 said:
 
I can only speak for myself, but: with synapses.
 
To be clear, I'm not saying I've lost respect for Kraft... but it really seems like either he made a big blunder last week releasing that website fighting the decision, only to follow it up with a totally contrite retraction, or he's making a big mistake now by making a contrite retraction without so much as a head-nod to his fanbase that's so riled up about the whole situation. The two actions taken together make so little sense.
 

genoasalami

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2006
2,591
Ed Hillel said:
Bah Gawn, is that Kyle Eckel's music???
 
 
 
If you ignore what has happened the entire last 4 months or so, you may be on to something.
The bullcrap to get to this point does not change what might have actually occurred ...personally ..I think they got caught. Ya, the punishment was ridiculous, but they put themselves in a really vulnerable spot with a commissioner that has no credibility. ....the sad thing is they win the SB with the balls OVER inflated....
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,933
Here
Stitch01 said:
Kudos for stepping up.
 
You're gonna lose, I fear. Should have expanded the bet to the entire appeals process. Oh well, $50 of that $450 will probably be my money.
 


The bullcrap to get to this point does not change what might have actually occurred ...personally ..I think they got caught. Ya, the punishment was ridiculous, but they put themselves in a really vulnerable spot with a commissioner that has no credibility. ....the sad thing is they win the SB with the balls OVER inflated....
 
No, but I think there's ample evidence to suggest Kraft believes the team is factually innoncent, which you suggested is not the case.
 

Otis Foster

rex ryan's podiatrist
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
1,719
bankshot1 said:
That was a let down.
 
I only hope this means RG lets Brady walk.
 
If this was done without addressing TB's exposure, there could be m ajor reprecussions.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
16,149
ragnarok725 said:
 
To be clear, I'm not saying I've lost respect for Kraft... but it really seems like either he made a

big blunder last week releasing that website
fighting the decision, only to follow it up with a totally contrite retraction, or he's making a big mistake now by making a contrite retraction
without so much as a head-nod to his fanbase that's so riled up about the whole situation. The two actions taken together make so little sense.
Unless his only concern is Brady.

And I mean Brady's suspension and putting a defense on the record for Brady's legacy.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,877
Oregon
Just a side note ... Anyone so upset with what Kraft did today that they want to give up their season tickets, let me know
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
Ed Hillel said:
 
You're gonna lose, I fear. Should have expanded the bet to the entire appeals process. Oh well, $50 of that $450 will probably be my money.
Then when its gets vacated on appeal everything I won betting on this farce goes to the Jimmy Fund (shrug)
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
genoasalami said:
The bullcrap to get to this point does not change what might have actually occurred ...personally ..I think they got caught. Ya, the punishment was ridiculous, but they put themselves in a really vulnerable spot with a commissioner that has no credibility. ....the sad thing is they win the SB with the balls OVER inflated....
Personally, you have close to a 100% track record of being wrong about all things Patriots soo.....yeah.
 

Valek123

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
990
Upper Valley
Corsi said:
Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard  29s30 seconds ago
Belief in league circles is NFLPA has found the perfect player & case to go big-game hunting and change commissioner discipline forever.
 
This is 100% more important to me, I doubt there was a back-room deal between Kraft and the commissioner on reducing Brady's suspension.  There might have been a backroom conversation between Brady and Kraft, where Kraft told him what he was going to do and said give "us" hell Tommy and win.  Don't let up and break the system, we'll never know until the memoir's come out. Break the system TB - shatter this bull .... system.  Become the player that fixed something that was so broken and despised by society that you are remembered 20 years from now as the person who forced change and saved the NFL from itself.
 

knucklebird

New Member
Apr 23, 2010
25
I have grown tired of the 1 of 32 narrative Kraft insists on espousing. We are the only 1 of 32 to be routinely bent over by the NFL. It would appear that all Kraft did today was invite another league gang bang. We'll just lay down and take it for the good of the 32 after all.
 

BroodsSexton

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2006
12,936
guam
PedroKsBambino said:
 
That is a good statement, given the practical realities.  He is not conceding the underlying facts, and takes veiled shots at the league about the length, the lack of evidence, and the punishment.  I'm not sure what else he could have done other than appeal (which really means litigate, given that there's close to zero chance Goodell was going to reduce the penalties himself).
 
The real discussion is behind closed doors:  did other owners promise Kraft changes in the governance process if he drops it?  Is there consensus about removing Pash, Kensil, or Goodell?   Those things won't be announced, but we'll see how things play out next few months.
 
Didn't see the press conference, but read the statement, and I agree that the statement is a good statement in light of the practicalities.  Kraft looks like a mensch, to me.  The facts are out there for those who care about them.  He doesn't really have a lot of recourse even if he continues to fight.  And even complete vindication in the legal system wouldn't restore the reputational hit (there's a reason it's called irreparable harm...).  Brady and the NFLPA will fight on.
 
In a sense, it's sort of a postmodern turn.  The teams in the league have to do battle against each other, and also against the league itself. Kind of interesting, when you put it in those terms.
 

patinorange

don rickles jr
SoSH Member
Aug 27, 2006
31,917
6 miles from Angel Stadium
It would have been fun for us to see Kraft go all out against the league. But we all knew it wasn't going to happen. His actions today were probably the first smart thing they did in this whole mess. Move on. What the hell are they going to do about the cornerbacks?
 

kartvelo

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2003
10,520
At home
Rice14 said:
 
Yep, just like there's no smoking gun that proves the Patriots were guilty, there's no smoking gun that can prove they are innocent. In the court of public opinion minds are already made up one way or another. A long, drawn out fight wouldn't have changed anything and would have just kept the story alive for a lot longer than it should have been.
That's not how smoking guns work.
In this case, there's not even a murder victim, never mind a smoking gun. Just a firm conviction that the accused must have killed *somebody* because... well, just because.
 

mikeot

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2006
8,243
E5 Yaz said:
Just a side note ... Anyone so upset with what Kraft did today that they want to give up their season tickets, let me know
 
 
What he said ... also standing by.
 

Bob420

New Member
Jul 14, 2005
918
SeanBerry said:
 
So I can never post again if Tom Brady doesn't get entire suspension vacated by Roger Goodell?
 
If Goodell doesn't vacate entire suspension, you have to pay Jimmy Fund $500?
 
Sounds fair to me. I'm in.
Heads I win. Tails you lose.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
4,499
SeanBerry said:
 
So I can never post again if Tom Brady doesn't get entire suspension vacated by Roger Goodell?
 
If Goodell doesn't vacate entire suspension, you have to pay Jimmy Fund $500?
 
Sounds fair to me. I'm in.
seems like a pretty safe bet. I don't see anyway Goodell eliminates the suspension. Why give it to him in the first place, then?
 

Valek123

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
990
Upper Valley
patinorange said:
It would have been fun for us to see Kraft go all out against the league. But we all knew it wasn't going to happen. His actions today were probably the first smart thing they did in this whole mess. Move on. What the hell are they going to do about the cornerbacks?
 
Zone, 3 second coverage and blitz the hell out of the qb.  Blitzboro here we come, BB has seen the front 7 requirements and addressed it - can't wait to see his thoughts unravel on the field.  I don't remember a single CB from his Giants days, but I do remember almost all the linemen and linebackers... 
 

kartvelo

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2003
10,520
At home
BoredViewer said:
I genuinely believe the Patriots are guilty of something, too.... and I'm still pissed at this.  It's like giving a guy 10 years in prison for unconfirmed jay walking.  
Holy crap. Really? Still? Based on what, exactly?