#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[SMU_Sox]

What do you want Kraft to say anyway? He's got to walk a fine line and political speak here. Well, perhaps got isn't the right word. But being savvy is his MO so would you expect anything different? Based on his recent actions does anyone expect a strong statement from Kraft supporting Brady?
SNM said it best. Neither side is truly happy but neither are greatly upset. You can't please either side without upsetting the other so Kraft played the game.

Also:

Exactly.

 

[Van Everyman]

You guys are parsing this statement like it came from a press release or a statement before Congress with a lawyer present.

Kraft isn't exactly the most articulate guy in normal circumstances – this is someone many fans assume is half in the bag when he speaks after championships. And this was a response to a question – one, admittedly, he was prepared for, but hardly a carefully crafted prepared statement.

About all we know is that Kraft supports (or has supported) Brady and was willing to give in to the League because he saw no path to victory. This "statement" (which is more of a comment really) doesn't really change that one way or the other.

 

[simplyeric]

 
I think it's probable that some of Kraft's past actions and statements have actually crossed the line with respect to the owners' agreement, which is very different than the CBA pact binding players, and I think it's likely that some of the other owners have mentioned this to Kraft.
 
And I think that's likely why Brady was not mentioned by name and why there were some key qualifiers. So I think that Brady likely took this as a show of support as it was intended as such, but it's also clear why the qualifiers and vagueness was there which is what the comments about corporate speak are about. In the absence of the business, Kraft would have said things differently, ergo, by definition, that's corporate double speak. QED. Ipso facto. E pluribus unum.
 

If we assume, for argument's sake, that Kraft's wrestling name is 'The Thing', then it's more of a res ipsa loquitur thing.

 

[Myt1]

Kraft's comment was informed by what he thinks.  Not a difficult concept, Myt1.

Yeah. And people always say everything they think.
 

I don't think Kraft's comment meant nothing, no matter how many people parrot that.  That said, I don't claim that it was earth shattering.  My original and continuing point was that it was supportive, albeit not explicit.    
 
You can repeat your line about the question he was responding to as many times as you like.  One, you have not linked it and who knows if that's actually right.  Two, even if it is right, Kraft said what he said. 

You don't think the question at issue informs a discussion of whether the answer was doublespeak or not, or what the answer meant, or whether it was supportive? The context of the Context Report is what matters, not the question that was asked?

That's . . . that's a new level right there.
 
Here's Volin's paraphrase.
 
So it's basically, "What's your opinion on this?" and the response didn't give one.

 

[Myt1]

What do you want Kraft to say anyway? He's got to walk a fine line and political speak here. Well, perhaps got isn't the right word. But being savvy is his MO so would you expect anything different?

Of course not.  I just don't understand why someone thinks we got something different.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Of course not.  I just don't understand why someone thinks we got something different.

Because this thread has repeatedly and spectacularly gone down the fucking rabbit hole. Until there's actual news (and Kraft's statement doesn't amount to much) there's needless handwringing and posturing. Here's what going to happen. Brady is going to appeal in he upcoming weeks. Let's see what happens. Then we might actually have something to discuss of value. I'm not trying to be a dick but I think I might be coming off as one. Apologies if so.

 

[Myt1]

Not at all.

 

[Reverend]

Because this thread has repeatedly and spectacularly gone down the fucking rabbit hole. Until there's actual news (and Kraft's statement doesn't amount to much) there's needless handwringing and posturing. Here's what going to happen. Brady is going to appeal in he upcoming weeks. Let's see what happens. Then we might actually have something to discuss of value. I'm not trying to be a dick but I think I might be coming off as one. Apologies if so.

 
Ultimately, the proliferation of media and, especially, the internet has created a demand for immediacy that cannot be fulfilled in reality by normal human processes.
 

 

[SMU_Sox]

I agree, Rev, but we have the capability to recognize that and take a step back and be patient. How we respond to news in the age of instant (and I shudder as I say it) journalism is the bigger issue here. There are multiple sub problems. One is that we no longer wait for a decent level of facts to be established. Leaks seem to be prevalent too and not just for the NFL. The ability to leak instantly is problematic because it seems to create even more leaks. Another problem is we make things that aren't important, well, important. The latest Kraft statement is that. Is it worth noting that he said it? Sure. But the scrutiny and posts dedicated to it are, in my humble opinion not.

The rush to be first or have the best leaks and make unimportant things important twist events and alter narratives. It's frustrating how chaotic news can be. There's always been and always will be an element of chaos to developing news stories but the sheer magnitude now is disturbing. How many sources contradicted each other in a week? A day? An hour? And we're quoting Sharks of Vegas? Well what do you want us to do, Bluto? Do you want us to just ignore it? No. You can't ignore it. You can take it with an iota of iodine though and remember the demon you're dealing with.

 

[h8mfy]

NYT editorial (will appear in Sunday's paper):
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/opinion/deflating-deflategate.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
 
"But when we analyzed the data provided in the Wells report, we found that the Patriots balls declined by about the expected amount, while the Colts balls declined by less. In fact, the pressure of the Colts balls was statistically significantly higher than expected. Contrary to the report, the significant difference between the changes in pressure of the two teams’ balls was not because the pressure of the Patriots balls was too low, but because that of the Colts balls was too high."
 
This is the same group that analyzed "Bountygate."

 

[johnmd20]

NYT editorial (will appear in Sunday's paper):
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/opinion/deflating-deflategate.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
 
"But when we analyzed the data provided in the Wells report, we found that the Patriots balls declined by about the expected amount, while the Colts balls declined by less. In fact, the pressure of the Colts balls was statistically significantly higher than expected. Contrary to the report, the significant difference between the changes in pressure of the two teams’ balls was not because the pressure of the Patriots balls was too low, but because that of the Colts balls was too high."
 
This is the same group that analyzed "Bountygate."

 
An unbelievable column from top to bottom. Basically, it's detailing a lot of what has been noted in this thread for the 5 months. FIVE MONTHS, by the way. Over .1-.2 PSI.
 
edit - another quote from that column.
 
 

Our study, written with our colleague Joseph Sullivan, examines the evidence and methodology of the Wells report and concludes that it is deeply flawed. (We have no financial stake in the outcome of Deflategate.)

 

 

[Frisbetarian]

Here's the full report. 

 

[simplyeric]

Imagine a funny pop culture reference image here.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

AEI is a "center-right" think tank. I knew it -- Brady's a Republican!1!!1
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute
 

The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI) is a center-right[2] think tank based in Washington, DC. Its research is dedicated to issues of government, politics, economics and social welfare. Founded in 1938, its stated mission is "to defend the principles and improve the institutions of American freedom and democratic capitalism—limited government, private enterprise, individual liberty and responsibility, vigilant and effective defense and foreign policies, political accountability, and open debate".[3] AEI is an independent nonprofit organization supported primarily by grants and contributions from foundations, corporations, and individuals.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

AEI also published this awesome graphic:
 

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Unlikely to change anyone's mind, but more evidence that is whole thing is complete bullshit.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Unlikely to change anyone's mind, but more evidence that is whole thing is complete bullshit.

Yep.  The only people who will read this carefully will be Pats fans.
 
I would love to shove it down Goodell's throat, Clockwork Orange style. 

 

[ifmanis5]

Unlikely to change anyone's mind, but more evidence that is whole thing is complete bullshit.

Yes and yes. And Fuck Chris Mortensen and his bullshit tweet.
 
The media diet of this story was a college course in disruption. Every little morsel that painted the Pats in a negative light spread like wildfire everywhere and was repeated ad nauseam. And of course this Times piece, which was a level-headed look at the facts, will be ignored and buried. It's certainly not on ESPN's front page. People believed what they wanted to with this story and that wall of bad faith isn't going to be broken any time soon.
 
I'm convinced that Kessler will wipe the floor with Goodell if it ever gets to that stage in court and I'm also convinced it won't change public perception at all. It'll only be for us Pats fans and some legal wonks.

 

[Myt1]

Yeah, but that means that a bunch of us in the thread will be doubly psyched! 

 

[tims4wins]

Cmon guys take off your Pats colored glasses, Pats cheated, just admit it

 

[DJnVa]

NYT editorial (will appear in Sunday's paper):
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/opinion/deflating-deflategate.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
 
"But when we analyzed the data provided in the Wells report, we found that the Patriots balls declined by about the expected amount, while the Colts balls declined by less. In fact, the pressure of the Colts balls was statistically significantly higher than expected. Contrary to the report, the significant difference between the changes in pressure of the two teams’ balls was not because the pressure of the Patriots balls was too low, but because that of the Colts balls was too high."
 
This is the same group that analyzed "Bountygate."

 
 
 
I mean, "Although this explanation contradicts the Wells report’s conclusions, it fits all the evidence."
 
EXACTLY.

 

[DJnVa]

These guys got in front of Tagliabue---if this goes beyond Goodell, any chance this gets play?

 

[TheoShmeo]

Yes and yes. And Fuck Chris Mortensen and his bullshit tweet.
 
The media diet of this story was a college course in disruption. Every little morsel that painted the Pats in a negative light spread like wildfire everywhere and was repeated ad nauseam. And of course this Times piece, which was a level-headed look at the facts, will be ignored and buried. It's certainly not on ESPN's front page. People believed what they wanted to with this story and that wall of bad faith isn't going to be broken any time soon.
 
I'm convinced that Kessler will wipe the floor with Goodell if it ever gets to that stage in court and I'm also convinced it won't change public perception at all. It'll only be for us Pats fans and some legal wonks.

It's not on the general ESPN page right now but it is the first story on the ESPN Boston page (or a summary of it by Reiss).
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4782194/deflating-deflategate-independent-analysis-finds-wells-report-deeply-flawed

 

[tims4wins]

It is good that Reiss has it. It's a start

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Unlikely to change anyone's mind, but more evidence that is whole thing is complete bullshit.

 
Ralphwiggum has bingo.  I mean, I love that you guys continue to rage against the machine here but perception is that the Patriots are cheaters.  And that, in turn, is the reality outside of those of us who cared to dig into the facts around this whole silly charade.

 

[Ed Hillel]

It is pretty funny that ESPN won't put this story on their main page, considering everything Patriots related that goes there. Big fannies of the NFL there at ESPN.

 

[Dropkick Izzy]

 

[dcmissle]

These guys got in front of Tagliabue---if this goes beyond Goodell, any chance this gets play?

Yes. I think this is going before a federal judge before all is said and done. It will matter to him or her.

I don't give a rat's ass about perception at this point. So I don't care much if ESPN envelops this in a Soviet style cone of silence. I want this before the invidual who ultimately decides how many games, if any, TB sits next season because that will have a huge bearing on the team's success.

 

[amarshal2]

Dammit, every time I completely give up and lose hope something reels me back in.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I'm still waiting for Roger, et al, to insist that they caught TB12 red-handed in a My Cousin Vinny-style "I shot the clerk?" confession when he admitted on the sidelines, for all the world to hear, "Oh my god, Josh! We did it!!!!"

 

[Gorton Fisherman]

Still waiting for the crawl at the bottom of the Worldwide Leader's flagship channel to be updated to include:
 
BREAKING: NY Times analysis concludes Wells report was "deeply flawed"

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The full report has this great paragraph:
 

[SIZE=9pt]Our findings are as follows. First, the Wells report contains sufficient data to explore the question of whether the Patriots deflated their footballs using statistical techniques. [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Second, the Wells report’s [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]statistical analysis cannot be replicated by performing the analysis as described in the [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]report. Third, the Wells report’s results can (for [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]the most part) be replicated when we use a different, flawed modeling approach that fundamentally differs from the approach described in the report. Fourth, the Wells report failed to recognize the importance of the logical link between two of its areas of inquiry: whether the Patriots balls were deflated more than the Colts balls, and whether the Patriots balls were at a pressure that could be explained without recourse to wrongdoing by the Patriots. [/SIZE]
 

 

[Cabin Mirror]

Anyone know what AEI's motivation for this is? They state that there is no financial incentive, but never mention what their incentive actually is.

 

[Van Everyman]

 
Ralphwiggum has bingo.  I mean, I love that you guys continue to rage against the machine here but perception is that the Patriots are cheaters.  And that, in turn, is the reality outside of those of us who cared to dig into the facts around this whole silly charade.

I appreciate that those of us who "rage against the machine" are easy to mock and all – and that pretty much every decision thus far has gone against the Patriots. But can we also cool it with the relentlessly dismissive and derisive tone towards anyone who hopes to change this narrative even a little? It's every bit as tiresome.

Plus there is still potentially quite a few chapters left in all this. Already you're seeing slow, steady march of credible reports and opinion pieces from the likes of Sally Jenkins and the NYT tearing the report to shreds. This is not seen as a particularly credible report. Should Brady's suspension be vacated entirely, it may not have any effect on those who see the Patriots as "cheaters" – but it would likely represent an even bigger stain on Goodell's leadership given the high profile nature of the situation than Bountygate.

For me, that would be a pretty big win.

 

[DJnVa]

Anyone know what AEI's motivation for this is? They state that there is no financial incentive, but never mention what their incentive actually is.

 
Some people just like to "argue", debate, etc.

 

[Gorton Fisherman]

I thought Bob Kravitz might have some thoughts on the AEI report so I tweeted the link to him:
 
https://twitter.com/bkravitz/status/609681872847806464
 
I then tweeted a series of key points from the report showing that it actually does both prove and disprove a number of things, including many things that run counter to Wells' conclusions.  
 
I also suggested that the AEI report would make an excellent and highly relevant topic for his column on WTHR.com.  Not holding my breath though.
 

 

[lambeau]

This is a game changer. It gives wide circulation to the Swan Boat points debunking Wells, and will shift the thinking of fair-minded intelligent people (judges, presumably) toward the idea that punishing Tom for a nonevent is a Soviet-style travesty.

 

[I12XU]

Anyone know what AEI's motivation for this is? They state that there is no financial incentive, but never mention what their incentive actually is.

Supporting future Senator Brady to remove this from future ethics probes?

 

[TomTerrific]

Anyone know what AEI's motivation for this is? They state that there is no financial incentive, but never mention what their incentive actually is.

 
Actually, a variant of this is what is currently interesting me the most. I can't imagine that the suits at NFL HQ will let this go without a riposte of some kind.
 
Their best bet is to paint the AEI guys as biased. How do we think they'll go about doing that? The political angle is the easy one, but probably won't have the effect they want. So what else could they do?

 

[bankshot1]

Anyone know what AEI's motivation for this is? They state that there is no financial incentive, but never mention what their incentive actually is.

 
In the opening paragraph of their Wells Report analysis/critique, the authors state they also did an analysis regarding Bountygate and ended up testifying in that matter, and that other outside sources have stated their work contributed to Tagliabue overturning Goodell's initial BG decision. So perhaps the authors are building upon their initial debunking of the NFL's independent investigative process to turn into positive publicity for both the AEI and themselves.
 
And the TRUTH!!!

 

[Devizier]

I'd be shocked if Kraft didn't pull some back channels to get an independent study funded. I'd be even more shocked if this was traceable to him in any way whatsoever.

 

[bankshot1]

 
Actually, a variant of this is what is currently interesting me the most. I can't imagine that the suits at NFL HQ will let this go without a riposte of some kind.
 
Their best bet is to paint the AEI guys as biased. How do we think they'll go about doing that? The political angle is the easy one, but probably won't have the effect they want. So what else could they do?

They should probably ignore it.
An attack on the author's objectivity is an area the NFL or the Well's team really does not want to explore.  

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I love that NOW Kravitz wants to quibble about documents that neither prove not disprove assertions.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Anyone know what AEI's motivation for this is? They state that there is no financial incentive, but never mention what their incentive actually is.

 
They said they don't have a financial incentive in the outcome of DeflateGate.  That doesn't mean the report wasn't paid for.
 
My read is that Brady and Kessler's PR team made a canny purchase here.  Doesn't mean the facts were garbled or distorted by AEI, just that they got AEI to put their time, normally spent on worthwhile things, towards this.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Meanwhile, Florio has picked it up:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/13/american-enterprise-institute-calls-ted-wells-report-unreliable/

 

[Reverend]

 
Ralphwiggum has bingo.  I mean, I love that you guys continue to rage against the machine here but perception is that the Patriots are cheaters.  And that, in turn, is the reality outside of those of us who cared to dig into the facts around this whole silly charade.

 
Noted.
 
 

 
Actually, a variant of this is what is currently interesting me the most. I can't imagine that the suits at NFL HQ will let this go without a riposte of some kind.

 
Well, they can try. But AEI will likely wipe the floor with them.
 
The NFL is the gorilla in the room in the world of sports entertainment, and they have lots of pull there and can dominate the scene and such. All their PR blunders and bluster are a function of that--it's just a matter of perception within that sphere and they don't give a shit. In no manner, way, shape, or form do they want to leave that sphere and contend with a real player.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Yes. I think this is going before a federal judge before all is said and done. It will matter to him or her.

I don't give a rat's ass about perception at this point. So I don't care much if ESPN envelops this in a Soviet style cone of silence. I want this before the invidual who ultimately decides how many games, if any, TB sits next season because that will have a huge bearing on the team's success.

 
I think it is more likely the NFL writes a check to Brady than that Brady serves any suspension if this gets before a federal judge.

 

[Reverend]

 
They said they don't have a financial incentive in the outcome of DeflateGate.  That doesn't mean the report wasn't paid for.
 
My read is that Brady and Kessler's PR team made a canny purchase here.  Doesn't mean the facts were garbled or distorted by AEI, just that they got AEI to put their time, normally spent on worthwhile things, towards this.

 

 

[Reverend]

 
I think it is more likely the NFL writes a check to Brady than that Brady serves any suspension if this gets before a federal judge.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v11-r3PwiaU

 

[canvass ali]

I appreciate that those of us who "rage against the machine" are easy to mock and all – and that pretty much every decision thus far has gone against the Patriots. But can we also cool it with the relentlessly dismissive and derisive tone towards anyone who hopes to change this narrative even a little? It's every bit as tiresome.

Plus there is still potentially quite a few chapters left in all this. Already you're seeing slow, steady march of credible reports and opinion pieces from the likes of Sally Jenkins and the NYT tearing the report to shreds. This is not seen as a particularly credible report. Should Brady's suspension be vacated entirely, it may not have any effect on those who see the Patriots as "cheaters" – but it would likely represent an even bigger stain on Goodell's leadership given the high profile nature of the situation than Bountygate.

For me, that would be a pretty big win.

 
I think this is dead-on.  I tend to take the long view--narratives shift slowly but they can and do shift.  There has to be some steady pressure applied to give a fact-based narrative any traction against an erroneous perception that is fed by the forces at work here.  Resistance has to start somewhere, and has to be maintained until the tide eventually turns.  Optimistic, yes...and there will always be people who have accepted as fact that the Patriots are cheaters and will never see it differently.  But in the long run this whole thing will be recognized as the bag job that it is.