#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[TomTerrific]

Don't know if it means anything, but the New York Times saw fit to put in the Noteworthy part of their morning briefing the following:
 
NOTEWORTHY
• “Deflategate” continues.
A decision could come as early as today from the N.F.L. commissioner, Roger Goodell, on the New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady’s appeal of a four-game suspension.
Brady was suspended in connection with using underinflated footballs during an A.F.C. championship game.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/nytnow/iran-tennessee-shooting-and-mh17-anniversary.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

[tims4wins]

Friday news dump? Pats camp opens July 30. Maybe they will wait until next Friday. Can't imagine they do it during training camp.

 

[dcmissle]

Peter King deserves credit for advocating a reduction in the Pats' penalties, if Brady's are reduced.  Hell will freeze before that fact is acknowledged in our PK spanking thread.  And hell will freeze, in all probability, before that happens.
 
Issue also addressed here:  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/16/if-bradys-penalties-are-reduced-should-the-patriots-be-too/
 
 
EDIT, look at this bit of foolishness from a voice from the past:
 

 
 
The Deflategate saga rages on, but doesn't it seem like forever ago that Robert Kraft decided to throw in the towel?
 
In John Tomase's opinion, Kraft's decision to back down may still have an impact on the rest of Tom Brady's appeal.
 
"Doesn't Kraft backing off tell you they're willing to accept something?" asked Tomase. "They backed off for a reason. You can say that it's simply because they're doing what's right for the league. If they thought their guy 100 percent didn't do this, they fight it to the death. That's what I believe. The fact that they didn't gives the NFL power to say, 'we're sticking you with something, you're not getting zero.'"

 
No, John, it does not tell you that, any more than it tells you the Pats taped the Super Bowl walk through.

 

[TheoShmeo]

One reason why I have been pessimistic about a reduction in the four games is just how ridiculous the draft picks and fine would look in that light.  My underlying assumption there was that Goodell would not have the brains and stones to for do what King advocates.
 
That Kraft did not appeal deprives Goodell of an easy vehicle to make a corresponding adjustment.  But that, by all rights, should not force him to shy away from making the most logical move.
 
Please suggest another windmill for me to tilt at next.  Thanks.

 

[Dogman]

You already did.  That kid ain't gonna yell at himself.
 
Get to it.

 

[canderson]

Friday news dump? Pats camp opens July 30. Maybe they will wait until next Friday. Can't imagine they do it during training camp.

I have 3:45 p.m. today press release time for the announcement no changes will be made. 

 

[TheoShmeo]

You already did.  That kid ain't gonna yell at himself.
 
Get to it.

I need a much better windmill than that.  You're slipping.  No surprise here.

 

[Leather]

Peter King deserves credit for advocating a reduction in the Pats' penalties, if Brady's are reduced.  Hell will freeze before that fact is acknowledged in our PK spanking thread.  And hell will freeze, in all probability, before that happens.
 
 
 

 
You obviously don't read the thread.
 
People give credit to King there when it's deserved.     The problem is that when he does something good, it only serves to highlight that he wastes his access and talent 99.9% of the time.
 
So, go ahead.  The water's piss-warm.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I am actually starting to like the Red Sox less because of whining shithead Patriots fans.  Jesus.
 
This is sports guys.  The Patriots have had one of the best runs in the sports' history.  That means everyone is tired of you and is going to shit on you whenever they get a chance.  It's not unique to the NFL or the Patriots.  Think of the way we treat(ed) Yankee fans or Canadiens fans or Lakers fans.  Yeah, it sucks that someone drummed up a fake thing that gives other fans leverage, but if there wasn't that there would be something else.

This is complete bullshit. And if you don't root for the Patriots we don't need your "logic" here.

This thread is for Patriots fans to discuss *their* perceptions of what other non-Patriot fans think of the Patriots. As such, actual non-Patriot fans perspectives are not welcomed here.

For the record, I am a Patriots fan.

 

[bakahump]

Generally, to get a temporary injunction, you have to show two things:

1. A susbstantial likelihood of success on the merits; and
2. A substantial likelihood of irreparable harm.

The more you can show on 1, the less you need on 2, and vice versa. It's one of those rare legal concepts that has some elegance about it.

Regardless of the merits, missing games is the sort of thing that's really high on the irreparable harm scale. I can't recall right now, but I swear there's some really helpful language in an NFL-centric case about that.

IANAL (Nor smart enough to sleep in a Holiday Inn Express and pretend to be one).....
 
But in the case of Brady and Potentially missing 4 Games (and associated Money) wouldnt your point #2 Be HUGE.  Like So huge that your caveat basically becomes meaningless with a Judge thinking "Well he may only have a slight chance......but I can let him lose 4 games and X millions....cause he only has so many of those opportunities......and he does have a shot"
 
Basically in your equation #2 is almost big enough on its own merits to "automatically" (i know....dangerous word) grant an injunction.  And thats even before we consider that many think he has a strong case (#1).
Losing @4 million Dollars and 10 % of his remaining opportunities is pretty "Irreparable".
 
All that said I think its impossible that he misses any games UNTIL this is finalized.  (Even then I think he wins....but thats a different part of this discussion).

 

[tims4wins]

I am actually starting to like the Red Sox less because of whining shithead Patriots fans.  Jesus.
 
This is sports guys.  The Patriots have had one of the best runs in the sports' history.  That means everyone is tired of you and is going to shit on you whenever they get a chance.  It's not unique to the NFL or the Patriots.  Think of the way we treat(ed) Yankee fans or Canadiens fans or Lakers fans.  Yeah, it sucks that someone drummed up a fake thing that gives other fans leverage, but if there wasn't that there would be something else.

 
Everyone may have been tired of the Yankees, Lakers, Bulls, etc., and rooted hard for them to lose... but did anyone really shit on them? This just seems... different. Those teams weren't surrounded by controversies. But maybe that is only my perception because Pats fans are now on the receiving end as opposed to the giving end.

 

[pappymojo]

I was going to write something, but ended up deleting it. 
 
I think it's fairly obvious that the Patriots were rail-roaded here.  I don't think that there is any evidence that anybody did anything wrong and yet our team lost two draft picks.  On top of that, 10 year old kids are being harassed and both the national and local media coverage is a joke. 
 
In the grand scheme of things, this is all trivial and it is nothing to become invested in - but couldn't you say that about every sports-related discussion ever?  Why shouldn't Patriots fans have an outlet to discuss this farce?

 

[pappymojo]

One reason why I have been pessimistic about a reduction in the four games is just how ridiculous the draft picks and fine would look in that light.  My underlying assumption there was that Goodell would not have the brains and stones to for do what King advocates.
 
That Kraft did not appeal deprives Goodell of an easy vehicle to make a corresponding adjustment.  But that, by all rights, should not force him to shy away from making the most logical move.
 
Please suggest another windmill for me to tilt at next.  Thanks.

 
Couldn't he say 'the responsibility for the irregularities of the ball handling fall on the Patriots organization.  Upon review of this case, I am voiding Brady's suspension.  A $50,000 fine for lack of cooperation in the investigation is being upheld' or something similar.  This allows him to continue to smear the Patriots and to call them cheater-cheaters, but gets him out of the line of fire for a federal case. 

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Why shouldn't Patriots fans have an outlet to discuss this farce?
 

 
Because you sound like fucking lunatics when you say things like, "This makes me want to do something drastic, as my mother used to say."
 
The Patriots just won the Super Bowl, who gives a shit what some jackass in Oklahoma thinks about your team?

 

[pappymojo]

 
Because you sound like fucking lunatics when you say things like, "This makes me want to do something drastic, as my mother used to say."
 
The Patriots just won the Super Bowl, who gives a shit what some jackass in Oklahoma thinks about your team?

 
If I don't give a shit what some jackass thinks, why should I care if someone thinks like I sound like a lunatic for something I say? 
 
Edit: Also, I didn't post the quoted statement, but I will sit at my chair and type a message on a website to defend another fan's ability to get insanely frustrated over this bullshit. 

 

[TomTerrific]

 
Couldn't he say 'the responsibility for the irregularities of the ball handling fall on the Patriots organization.  Upon review of this case, I am voiding Brady's suspension.  A $50,000 fine for lack of cooperation in the investigation is being upheld' or something similar.  This allows him to continue to smear the Patriots and to call them cheater-cheaters, but gets him out of the line of fire for a federal case. 

As has been said many times before, this or something like it is the smart move.

Real question is, does Roger have the wits to see this and act on it? And even if he's smart enough to see it, maybe he's just all about being the Tough Sheriff and just doesn't care about the fallout as long as the first part is preserved.

 

[pappymojo]

As has been said many times before, this or something like it is the smart move.

Real question is, does Roger have the wits to see this and act on it? And even if he's smart enough to see it, maybe he's just all about being the Tough Sheriff and just doesn't care about the fallout as long as the first part is preserved.

 
I was responding to this specific statement.
 

One reason why I have been pessimistic about a reduction in the four games is just how ridiculous the draft picks and fine would look in that light.

 
He can still be the tough sheriff as evidenced by the loss of draft picks and the fine. 

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

 
If I don't give a shit what some jackass thinks, why should I care if someone thinks like I sound like a lunatic for something I say? 

 
You were asking why Patriot fans shouldn't have an outlet, right? And they should. But when weird threats are made (and I don't think TS has the sack to do anything about it), that's a bit beyond the pale, wouldn't you agree? Especially since it boils down to "One 10-year-old said this about my favorite team to another 10-year-old". 
 
Patriot fans are fighting a war on jealousy. And it's a war THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO WIN. EVER. It's pointless and stupid. 

 

[bankshot1]

 
Because you sound like fucking lunatics when you say things like, "This makes me want to do something drastic, as my mother used to say."
 
The Patriots just won the Super Bowl, who gives a shit what some jackass in Oklahoma thinks about your team?

Nobody really cares what some dolt in the hinterland thinks, but as Pat fans IMO we'll all get a little pissed when Collinsworth, or some other NFL talking head indirectly paid by the NFL throws DFG together with Spygate  and parrots the NFL line about how the integrity of the game must be upheld and transgressors punished.
 
And we know the sanctimonius bullshit is coming.

 

[The Big Red Kahuna]

Nobody really cares what some dolt in the hinterland thinks, but as Pat fans IMO we'll all get a little pissed when Collinsworth, or some other NFL talking head indirectly paid by the NFL throws DFG together with Spygate  and parrots the NFL line about how the integrity of the game must be upheld and transgressors punished.
 
And we know the sanctimonius bullshit is coming.

Speak for yourself... I find the sanctimonious b.s. absolutely hilarious and bathe in the tears and anger DG provokes in non-Pats fans. 
 
Can you bathe in anger?

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Nobody really cares what some dolt in the hinterland thinks, but as Pat fans IMO we'll all get a little pissed when Collinsworth, or some other NFL talking head indirectly paid by the NFL throws DFG together with Spygate  and parrots the NFL line about how the integrity of the game must be upheld and transgressors punished.
 
And we know the sanctimonius bullshit is coming.

 
But you know that's bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. Pretty much everything every announcer says is total crap -- I mean we have a forum dedicated to this verbal feces. I don't get why that gets people so pissed off*? 
 
* I'm not trying to be obtuse here, nor am I trying to put myself above all this, but isn't the general consensus that most announcers are sock puppets for whatever league they talk about? Yes, the NFL seems to be out to get the Pats. Who cares? Embrace it. Not everyone is going to love you, quit trying to get that love. 
 
And everyone has an agenda, Marshall Faulk doesn't like the Pats because it's easier to say that they cheated rather than his coach was a complete dipshit. Same thing with former Steelers and Colts. The Pats kicked their ass for so long and it's hard for a pro to say, "Well, they were the better team. They were better than us." Of course they're going to bark, "New England is the Cheatriots!" and are excited that the Pats are going through shit. And it's going to happen in 10 years when Seahawk players enter the media. Pete Carroll is a nice guy, which is why on a 2025 NFL Countdown show Richard Sherman is probably going to say, "We never should have lost to the Patriots because they never should have been there in the first place because they cheated!"
 
It's actually kind of funny when you think about it. 

 

[Myt1]

IANAL (Nor smart enough to sleep in a Holiday Inn Express and pretend to be one).....
 
But in the case of Brady and Potentially missing 4 Games (and associated Money) wouldnt your point #2 Be HUGE.  Like So huge that your caveat basically becomes meaningless with a Judge thinking "Well he may only have a slight chance......but I can let him lose 4 games and X millions....cause he only has so many of those opportunities......and he does have a shot"
 
Basically in your equation #2 is almost big enough on its own merits to "automatically" (i know....dangerous word) grant an injunction.  And thats even before we consider that many think he has a strong case (#1).
Losing @4 million Dollars and 10 % of his remaining opportunities is pretty "Irreparable".
 
All that said I think its impossible that he misses any games UNTIL this is finalized.  (Even then I think he wins....but thats a different part of this discussion).

You've got it mostly right. Losing $4 million usually isn't irreperable because, under most circumstances, a trial could lead to money damages. If Tom missed the games an lost the money, but then a trial proceeded in the ordinary course and he won, and the NFL were then required to pay him back, that would pretty much be perfectly reperable. "Irreparable" harm are things that we can't fix after a full trial, and money damages rarely fall into that category. There are some exceptions, like a mom and pop store that operates right at the margin to stay open. You might be able to give them money damages at the end of the trial, but if they're forced to close for four weeks because you didn't issue the preliminary injunction, they probably went out of business because they didn't have the money to stay afloat. That could be irreparable enough. This is slightly complicated by the fact that this will be an appeal of a labor arbitration, and I'll let people who swim in that pool more often correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the judge would be able to issue an order that eventually addressed the money.

It's basically the "lost opportunity" to play that you point out that is irreparable here. And IIRC, there's good recent law on that.

 

[tims4wins]

 
But you know that's bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. Pretty much everything every announcer says is total crap -- I mean we have a forum dedicated to this verbal feces. I don't get why that gets people so pissed off*? 
 
* I'm not trying to be obtuse here, nor am I trying to put myself above all this, but isn't the general consensus that most announcers are sock puppets for whatever league they talk about? Yes, the NFL seems to be out to get the Pats. Who cares? Embrace it. Not everyone is going to love you, quit trying to get that love. 
 
And everyone has an agenda, Marshall Faulk doesn't like the Pats because it's easier to say that they cheated rather than his coach was a complete dipshit. Same thing with former Steelers and Colts. The Pats kicked their ass for so long and it's hard for a pro to say, "Well, they were the better team. They were better than us." Of course they're going to bark, "New England is the Cheatriots!" and are excited that the Pats are going through shit. And it's going to happen in 10 years when Seahawk players enter the media. Pete Carroll is a nice guy, which is why on a 2025 NFL Countdown show Richard Sherman is probably going to say, "We never should have lost to the Patriots because they never should have been there in the first place because they cheated!"
 
It's actually kind of funny when you think about it. 

 
I do not disagree with a word you wrote.
 
My question is, why hasn't this happened with other recent dynasties? Or has it happened and I have just missed it?

 

[pappymojo]

 
You were asking why Patriot fans shouldn't have an outlet, right? And they should. But when weird threats are made (and I don't think TS has the sack to do anything about it), that's a bit beyond the pale, wouldn't you agree? Especially since it boils down to "One 10-year-old said this about my favorite team to another 10-year-old". 
 
Patriot fans are fighting a war on jealousy. And it's a war THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO WIN. EVER. It's pointless and stupid. 

 
I didn't really see it as a threat.  "makes me want to do something drastic" doesn't even mean anything.  I don't see it as a threat. 

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
No, John, it does not tell you that, any more than it tells you the Pats taped the Super Bowl walk through.

 
 
The sheer chutzpah of Tomase to opine on anything with the Pats is beyond belief.

 

[bakahump]

Cool.
Though you bring up a interesting question. Assuming he was suspended and lost the Game checks you mention he could then sue (and in our scenrio win) and then he would get the money back From the League?  Would that be correct? Instead of the Pats (which makes sense seeing as the League screwed him over not the Pats.....and the Pats didnt get his services so why should they pay).  Makes sense....but would be odd that the "league" would then be paying a player who technically should be awarded the terms of his contract. 
 
Could the PATRIOTS file an injunction?  For Missed opportunity?(not having Brady for 4 games)

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

 
I do not disagree with a word you wrote.
 
My question is, why hasn't this happened with other recent dynasties? Or has it happened and I have just missed it?

 
I think that are a lot of reasons. Some that the Pats brought on themselves (SpyGate) but I think that the media doesn't like New England because they don't like Bill Belichick. Mike Felger talks about being on the media bus on the way home from the Super Bowl that the Pats lost to the Giants during the undefeated season and media members were hooting and hollering, giving each other high fives and were in great spirits because New England lost. Who drives the narrative in most situations: the media. If the media doesn't like you, you're cooked. As an organization, the Patriots don't give a fuck about what the media thinks, so they let them say and write what they want. 
 
And again, I think that professional athletes don't like, nor are they used to, getting their asses kicked on a regular basis by one team. Especially when that team plays in an era where it's designed for this not to happen. So if you already have a chip on your shoulder and think that you're the best and you hear people whisper in your ear that the NFL is all about parity (when it's really not, you can look at the numbers) and there is one team that is bucking this trend, you're going to be angry. 
 
Nobody like the 70s Raiders. Nobody really likes the Cowboys. Nor do people like the Lakers, Yankees, Cardinals, Celtics, Canadiens, Red Wings, etc. Maybe it's not to the degree of the Patriots, but we're living in a different time. Sports isn't a pastime any more, it's an all-encompassing way of life for some people. There's the internet, tens of 24 hour sports on TV, 24/7 sports radio. This wasn't around a generation ago, and these outlets need content. Hate sells. Hate gets people talking. Hate moves the needle. People are serious about sports and they take their fandom and sports hatred seriously. 
 
If the 1970 Raiders were in the 2010s, they'd be hated more than the Pats. 
 

I didn't really see it as a threat.  "makes me want to do something drastic" doesn't even mean anything.  I don't see it as a threat. 
 

 
Ok Columbo, we'll agree to disagree on this one. But can we agree that it was an odd thing for an adult to post on a web site about a team that he is not a member of?

 

[NortheasternPJ]

We'll let the FBI decide if it's a threat or not.

 

[TheoShmeo]

 
I was responding to this specific statement.
 
 
 
 
He can still be the tough sheriff as evidenced by the loss of draft picks and the fine. 

I think you're right that Goodell would parse it that way.
 
But no matter how it is presented to the public, the enormity of the Pats penalty would LOOK even more foolish if RG went down to zero games.
 
Logically, there is a meaningful distinction between the team and Brady.  But I think the perceived imbalance would continue to concern the Sheriff.

 

[pappymojo]

'makes me want to...' =/= 'I will...'
'makes me want to...' =/= 'I am thinking of...'
 
'to do something drastic...' - this could mean anything - write a letter to the editor, cancel my subscription to the NFL Network, pull my hair out, stick a fork in my eye, jump in front of a bus,... 

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

'makes me want to...' =/= 'I will...'
'makes me want to...' =/= 'I am thinking of...'
 
'to do something drastic...' - this could mean anything - write a letter to the editor, cancel my subscription to the NFL Network, pull my hair out, stick a fork in my eye, jump in front of a bus,... 

No one is on trial here, Slick. Take it down a notch.

 

[mwonow]

I think you're right that Goodell would parse it that way.
 
But no matter how it is presented to the public, the enormity of the Pats penalty would LOOK even more foolish if RG went down to zero games.
 
Logically, there is a meaningful distinction between the team and Brady.  But I think the perceived imbalance would continue to concern the Sheriff.

 
If I've taken anything from this mess so far, it's that using logic as defined here to predict the actions of the Ginger Sheriff is a fool's errand! I keep expecting RG to act like any good senior exec would - step pack from the situation, find the balance that best connects all of the facts and obligations and imperatives and objectives, and take a clear, defensible stance.
 
That expectation doesn't intersect - at all - with anything RG has done so far...

 

[dcmissle]

Patriots have no standing to challenge Brady discipline.  Period.
 
The harm that is irreparable is Brady's loss of playing time.  Money can't fix that, though some people might have difficulty wrapping their minds around the notion that you're harmed for being paid for a day off, or four days off.  Because money can't fix it in the eyes of the law, this presents a textbook case of irreparable harm.

 

[pappymojo]

Just to explain, I don't give a shit about what fans from other teams say, what some guy on ESPN writes or what some kid said to some other kid. 

What I find frustrating is this backlash from within the Boston sports fan-base where some fans are telling other fans that they are being lunatics for having an emotional reaction to this whole thing.  While I am not emotionally tied into this story, I do find it fascinating, and I completely understand why other Patriots fans are reacting the way they are. 

 

[joe dokes]

My question is, why hasn't this happened with other recent dynasties? Or has it happened and I have just missed it?

 
A large part of it is the exponential increase in the number of "voices" even since the late 90s Yankees. Or even since 2007. Between the 24/7 of radio, TV and twitter (and others), anything gets talked about and magnified. They don't just repeat each other either. You say something. So I have to talk louder than you. So Brady didn't just deflate footballs; now deflating footballs is worse than Saddam and Hitler put together, because if I don't say that, then you have out-angered me and I have lost the fight. Its a ratings game, and ratings are driven by testosterone-fueled, dick-swinging indignation. And in *that* world, "losing the fight" is worse than anything.  Think about the shrill cry of "you're just a homer" from local contrarians to anyone who takes the side of the local team.  It's just dripping with a "you're a weak [insert female characteristic here] if you can't be tough on Belichick." 
 And that's just the media voices -- the ones who are *supposed* to be measured and responsible. And they're the ones debating someone's "legacy" 15 minutes after something happens. And then 2 fucktillion Joe Twiiter rants later, it's the lead story on the next sportscenter and the circle jerk has reached escape velocity.
Then you're in "with a name like painful rectal itch, it has to be good" territory because there's nowhere else to go.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht7Jmp4tZsk 
 
 
There were about 25 reporters around Joe Namath at the pool when he guaranteed victory. People read about it the next day. (or maybe heard about it that night). Now, "I think we can win" gets tweeted as a guarantee before the guy who said it while taking a dump has wiped his ass.
 
 
And most media people either dislike BB because he doesn't make their job easy, or, at a minimum, wont lift a finger in his or his team's defense "because he never did anything for me" (as though that's a reason not to do your job).  John Madden and Joe Torre didn't have that problem.

 

[joe dokes]

The harm that is irreparable is Brady's loss of playing time. Money can't fix that, though some people might have difficulty wrapping their minds around the notion that you're harmed for being paid for a day off, or four days off. Because money can't fix it in the eyes of the law, this presents a textbook case of irreparable harm.
 

 
When I first read that sentence, I agreed with it as a no-brainer.  But, would an employee illegally (Let's assume) kept off a jobsite be able to get a TRO or PI, or would the response be that "he could get paid for the time he misses" (in legal parlance -- "an adequate remedy at law.")  I don't know the answer to that, but we're talking about Tom Brady and the harm to Tom Brady of missing some time at work. Is it that clear that, in the event he later wins the lawsuit, that simply paying him for the games lost wouldn't be an adequate remedy? I haven't looked it up recently, but I am pretty sure that a loss of income which may be recovered later is not usually considered irreparable injury. (no doubt, you could change the circumstances -- say if it was the Super Bowl -- but we're looking at, for lack of a better word, "generic" playing time.
 
I'm not sure of the answer.  And maybe its just the "lets make sure we've looked all the way around this" lawyer talking. But I'm curious what others think.

 

[dcmissle]

You have hypothesized a case for which there likely will be no plaintiff.  You're right that money in the vast majority of circumstances is deemed an adequate remedy.  Indeed, in the typical employment situation courts, for sound policy reasons, typically refuse to specifically enforce personal services contracts, so money is the only remedy.  This is an unusual situation and not the typical employer-employee beef. 

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

What I find frustrating is this backlash from within the Boston sports fan-base where some fans are telling other fans that they are being lunatics for having an emotional reaction to this whole thing.  While I am not emotionally tied into this story, I do find it fascinating, and I completely understand why other Patriots fans are reacting the way they are. 
 

 
I think that the disconnect is that there shouldn't be a seven-month emotional reaction to this thing. Yes, it sucks. But it's not the end of the world. Your loved ones are still safe, you did not lose any money, YOUR reputation was not besmirched. At some point you have to put on your big boy pants and realize, "this sucks but it's sports. Sports that I do not personally play." and move on with your life. How far will someone take this?
 
Put it this way, when I was in high school I had a hair across my ass about the Boston Celtics. I thought that Larry Bird was overrated (I don't feel this way now, BTW) and I thought that Jordan was so much better than Bird that it wasn't even funny. Unfortunately, I went to high school in Massachusetts and not a lot of my classmates agreed with my perspective. We gave each other shit all the time about it and most of it was typical, high school, male crap. But that's all it was. Now if there was a TheoShmeo in 1990 or 91 who heard this and decided to talk to me about this, I'd have thought that he was crazy. Who cares what an idiot high school kid says to his other idiot high school friends?
 
In what universe is it "normal" for a grown adult to get so angry about what two pubescents kids were saying to each other that he had to tell his other adult friends on the internet and punctuate this incredibly lame story with "makes me want to do something drastic"? You're right, it's probably not a threat, but it is so fucking lame that I can't even comprehend his actions. Unless TheoShmeo is really Yosemite Sam and he flips out over the most innocuous things. 

 

[soxhop411]

“@MarkMaske: A ruling today on Tom Brady’s appeal appears unlikely, source says. Didn’t completely rule it out. But this source not expecting it today.”

 

[JayMags71]

My interest in the NFL has been waning for a few years due to all the news about concussions, my disgust at one of the Patriots' former tight ends being a murdering scumbag, and the constant parade of violent criminals that populate the league (seemingly disproportionate to other sports leagues). For the past two or three seasons I'd have considered myself a fair-weather Patriots fan.

The manner in which this story exploded, and the subsequent reaction to it by all sides - fans, media, and NFL Players (including Brady, but especially opponents) may have finally driven a stake thru the heart of the remnants of my fandom.

Seriously - a plague on all of their houses.

 

[pappymojo]

 
I think that the disconnect is that there shouldn't be a seven-month emotional reaction to this thing. Yes, it sucks. But it's not the end of the world. Your loved ones are still safe, you did not lose any money, YOUR reputation was not besmirched. At some point you have to put on your big boy pants and realize, "this sucks but it's sports. Sports that I do not personally play." and move on with your life. How far will someone take this?
 
Put it this way, when I was in high school I had a hair across my ass about the Boston Celtics. I thought that Larry Bird was overrated (I don't feel this way now, BTW) and I thought that Jordan was so much better than Bird that it wasn't even funny. Unfortunately, I went to high school in Massachusetts and not a lot of my classmates agreed with my perspective. We gave each other shit all the time about it and most of it was typical, high school, male crap. But that's all it was. Now if there was a TheoShmeo in 1990 or 91 who heard this and decided to talk to me about this, I'd have thought that he was crazy. Who cares what an idiot high school kid says to his other idiot high school friends?
 
In what universe is it "normal" for a grown adult to get so angry about what two pubescents kids were saying to each other that he had to tell his other adult friends on the internet and punctuate this incredibly lame story with "makes me want to do something drastic"? You're right, it's probably not a threat, but it is so fucking lame that I can't even comprehend his actions. Unless TheoShmeo is really Yosemite Sam and he flips out over the most innocuous things. 

 
I'm not trying to derail this thread and I think that you are mostly correct, but a 10 year old is, what, fifth grade?  I suspect that TheoShmeo's reaction and wanting to do something drastic is either a feeling that (1) the league through it's stupidity has given kids false ammunition to make fun of Patriots fans (maybe TS is a dad?) or that (2) the 10 year old Patriots fan seems to have accepted that the Patriots cheated like it actually happened.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I'm not trying to derail this thread and I think that you are mostly correct, but a 10 year old is, what, fifth grade?
 

 
It doesn't matter. Kids are fucking morons whether they're in fifth grade, 11th grade or are seniors in college. 
 

I suspect that TheoShmeo's reaction and wanting to do something drastic is either a feeling that (1) the league through it's stupidity has given kids false ammunition to make fun of Patriots fans (maybe TS is a dad?)
 

 
Kids are stupid. My best friend (and huge Celtics fan) used to tell me he read stories about Michael Jordan having sex with Bill Cartwright in the showers. And I used to say the same things about Larry Bird and Scott Wedman. If the 10-year-old Giants/Jets fan didn't have Deflategate to use, I am 100000% sure that he would have come up with something else to make fun of Tom Brady and the sainted Patriots. 
 

or that (2) the 10 year old Patriots fan seems to have accepted that the Patriots cheated like it actually happened.
 

 
Oh my god. WHO CARES? In two months while you or TS are sitting on your couch watching the Patriots play, are you going to think about these anonymous ten-year-olds? Are you going to be sad that even though the Patriots are crushing the Titans, Merrill Hodge doesn't like your team? I mean I don't understand what the big deal is. And you keep saying that you don't give a shit about what others say, but you clearly do. 
 
We have long since blown past the point where there is one national POV on things. For every person who thinks that Player/Person X is a great guy, there's another person who think he's a dick. That's just the way it goes. Like I said a few hours ago, I just can't fathom why anyone cares this deeply about professional sports -- which, I know sounds weird coming from a guy who has been posting on a Red Sox message board since 2001. 

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
I'm not trying to derail this thread and I think that you are mostly correct, but a 10 year old is, what, fifth grade?  I suspect that TheoShmeo's reaction and wanting to do something drastic is either a feeling that (1) the league through it's stupidity has given kids false ammunition to make fun of Patriots fans (maybe TS is a dad?) or that (2) the 10 year old Patriots fan seems to have accepted that the Patriots cheated like it actually happened.

Thanks Roger!!!!!

Seriously, if this stupid NFL scandal and the subsequent reactions of a few obnoxious ten year olds is making a grown man feel as though he has to "do something drastic" we need to worry. Its pretty fucked up on many levels.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

 
I didn't really see it as a threat.  "makes me want to do something drastic" doesn't even mean anything.  I don't see it as a threat. 

 
Maybe he sent Roger Goodell a strongly worded email from his work account?

 

[joe dokes]

You're right that money in the vast majority of circumstances is deemed an adequate remedy.  Indeed, in the typical employment situation courts, for sound policy reasons, typically refuse to specifically enforce personal services contracts, so money is the only remedy.  This is an unusual situation and not the typical employer-employee beef.
 

 
I see what you're saying. It's not even an employer-employee beef at all. I was thinking of a situation where a union member -- teacher, steel worker, etc. - gets disciplined by suspension, and after losing the grievance seeks federal court review of the arbitrator's upholding of the discipline. I can't imagine an injunction allowing the suspended worker to work during the pendency of that federal suit. If the worker ultimately wins, she gets back pay (as would Brady).  Is 4 games of the NFL season *that* much different than, say, a 30-day suspension for a teacher or steel worker? I dont think the answer is so clearly "yes,"  but IANAJ(udge).

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
I see what you're saying. It's not even an employer-employee beef at all. I was thinking of a situation where a union member -- teacher, steel worker, etc. - gets disciplined by suspension, and after losing the grievance seeks federal court review of the arbitrator's upholding of the discipline. I can't imagine an injunction allowing the suspended worker to work during the pendency of that federal suit. If the worker ultimately wins, she gets back pay (as would Brady).  Is 4 games of the NFL season *that* much different than, say, a 30-day suspension for a teacher or steel worker? I dont think the answer is so clearly "yes,"  but IANAJ(udge).

 
 
Hasn't this already come up numerous times in high school sports where a suspended {edit: or somehow deemed ineligible} player/team goes to court for an injunction so they can play in a big game? Point being the game only gets played once.

 

[DJnVa]

 
Is 4 games of the NFL season *that* much different than, say, a 30-day suspension for a teacher or steel worker? I dont think the answer is so clearly "yes,"  but IANAJ(udge).

 

Yes, and it seems very clear. The four games that he might miss will never be played again. This isn't a job where you're there to get paid. The game is the point and games missed can never be made up.

 

[yep]

 
I see what you're saying. It's not even an employer-employee beef at all. I was thinking of a situation where a union member -- teacher, steel worker, etc. - gets disciplined by suspension, and after losing the grievance seeks federal court review of the arbitrator's upholding of the discipline. I can't imagine an injunction allowing the suspended worker to work during the pendency of that federal suit. If the worker ultimately wins, she gets back pay (as would Brady).  Is 4 games of the NFL season *that* much different than, say, a 30-day suspension for a teacher or steel worker? I dont think the answer is so clearly "yes,"  but IANAJ(udge).

I don't know the specific case law that Myt1 thought addressed this, but if this were a debate team assignment, I would much rather be on team "NFL quarterback suspension is categorically different from steelworker suspension". 
 
You have framed the issue as a question (...is it *that* much different?...), and framed that way, it sounds like a potentially reasonable point of debate. But I bet if you try to frame it as a statement, and make your best case for it (e.g., "there is no significant difference"), then you will find that you have a hard time even making an opening argument, much less actually sticking with it to the point of convincing yourself, or anyone else. 

 

[EL Jeffe]

A lot of this has to be geographical, no? For example, I live in Richmond, VA. I regularly wear a Patriots shirt to the gym, and I've never once had someone come up to me and say something about DeflateGate. I have a Super Bowl 36 mug at my office, and I've never had a coworker come up to me and say anything negative about the NEP. Patriots fans care about this story 25,000x more than the average fan. The only person who has ever given me any sort of grief about this is a NYG friend of mine who made one comment about it on my Facebook page. I gave him some good-natured grief back and that was that.
 
Yes, there are plenty of fans who enjoy taking shots at the Patriots in the comments sections of various online outlets, but why would you possibly go looking to read online comments (on any subject, ever)? And yes, plenty of sports commentators will bring this up this season, but so what? How many members of the media actually read the Wells Report or the Patriot's online response and have a detailed knowledge of the subject? Like five? I'm sure it will be annoying to hear commentators and announcers bring this up and get the facts ENTIRELY wrong, but it's water under the bridge. No Patriot Fan Crusade is going to turn the tide on this thing. Enjoy the games and mute the TV if needed.

 

[AB in DC]

 
I think that the disconnect is that there shouldn't be a seven-month emotional reaction to this thing. 

 
Awfully ironic to be here on a forum of die-hard sports fans saying that one shouldn't have an emotional reaction to something that happens in sports.  Isn't that what being a sports fan is all about?
 
I don't know what's more bizarre -- the overreaction to DG, or your overreaction to the overreaction.