#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Carlos Cowart]

According to an earlier post in this thread, BB was absolved of, and got the league to burn evidence of him taping the Rams walk-through because he had evidence that would have forced the league to investigate (whatever, a dozen) other teams. So where is that leverage now on a seemingly lesser infraction? Did he have a handshake deal with Goodell to burn his evidence in exchange for no fine? But why would anyone ever trust Belichick to come through on his part of that deal when all the man has ever done is cheat and cheat some more. And then cheat. Very perplexing.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

 
I truly hope he walks in like this.  Kraft to his left trying to make it stop, but it just ain't happenin'!
 

I'd like this entrance better
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QkAmlH85Dg
 

 

[bluefenderstrat]

According to an earlier post in this thread, BB was absolved of, and got the league to burn evidence of him taping the Rams walk-through because he had evidence that would have forced the league to investigate (whatever, a dozen) other teams. So where is that leverage now on a seemingly lesser infraction? Did he have a handshake deal with Goodell to burn his evidence in exchange for no fine? But why would anyone ever trust Belichick to come through on his part of that deal when all the man has ever done is cheat and cheat some more. And then cheat. Very perplexing.

Edit: I took the bait!

 

[lexrageorge]

According to an earlier post in this thread, BB was absolved of, and got the league to burn evidence of him taping the Rams walk-through because he had evidence that would have forced the league to investigate (whatever, a dozen) other teams. So where is that leverage now on a seemingly lesser infraction? Did he have a handshake deal with Goodell to burn his evidence in exchange for no fine? But why would anyone ever trust Belichick to come through on his part of that deal when all the man has ever done is cheat and cheat some more. And then cheat. Very perplexing.

That's not correct.  The earlier post described a story told by Michael Holley, where supposedly Belichick had evidence of other teams taping signals on the sidelines.  That was supposedly the impetus for Goodell to destroy the tapes that Belichick had.  Holley's story is a bit full of holes, so I'm not sure if it's believable. 
 
The Rams walkthrough story was proven to be false.  Holley has maintained all along that it was false as well.  So you can stop trolling now.

 

[phrenile]

What's #1 and #2!?

• 2012 NY Jets: O Tannenbaum, gone (410,298 views)
• Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st Degree Murder; released by Patriots (298,826 views)

 

[tims4wins]

According to an earlier post in this thread, BB was absolved of, and got the league to burn evidence of him taping the Rams walk-through because he had evidence that would have forced the league to investigate (whatever, a dozen) other teams. So where is that leverage now on a seemingly lesser infraction? Did he have a handshake deal with Goodell to burn his evidence in exchange for no fine? But why would anyone ever trust Belichick to come through on his part of that deal when all the man has ever done is cheat and cheat some more. And then cheat. Very perplexing.

Where is the grim reaper emoticon

 

[dcmissle]

It's being reported in numerous places, like ESPN sports science, that you literally cannot feel the difference between what the psi was and what it should have been.

This is a non-competitive issue, we know about it because the colts leaked it to an ahole reporter and because the nfl likes being in the headlines.

Got to call you on this. If it is not a competitive issue, why underinflate and deal with this bullshit? And why would Rodgers overinflate. They are the football players, not you.

FWIW, Chris Cooley had a substantial career in the NFL as a TE. He host sports radio show in DC, He is an unabashed admirer of BB and the Pats. And while noting that this was not a factor in a blowout win vs Colts, he said that underinflated balls confer a huge advantage for receivers in the rain.

 

[njnesportsfan]

It's being reported in numerous places, like ESPN sports science, that you literally cannot feel the difference between what the psi was and what it should have been.

This is a non-competitive issue, we know about it because the colts leaked it to an ahole reporter and because the nfl likes being in the headlines.

If the officials had the headsup before the game, shouldn't one of the league employees have been watching Patriots staff/ballboy/whoever with some 1000Xzoom camera and taking videos/pictures like crazy so they could catch them in the act of deflating the ball? Obviously that didn't seem to exist since we would have already heard it now.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Which is worse, being a line-stepper or a half-stepper?

Do people call Belichick Dr Pepper?

 

[Kull]

We need another choice for "If Guilty". Just now I reached over, grabbed my pillow, and yanked the tag off. I'm guilty. I removed the tag. My penalty? Sleeping on a pillow without a tag.

 

[brandonchristensen]

BB is only winning because of Brady!

That gives Brady credit though...

 

[njnesportsfan]

Got to call you on this. If it is not a competitive issue, why underinflate and deal with this bullshit? And why would Rodgers overinflate. They are the football players, not you.

FWIW, Chris Cooley had a substantial career in the NFL as a TE. He host sports radio show in DC, He is an unabashed admirer of BB and the Pats. And while noting that this was not a factor in a blowout win vs Colts, he said that underinflated balls confer a huge advantage for receivers in the rain.

So football players can tell the difference of PSI, referees cannot? This strikes me as outlandish. 

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Got to call you on this. If it is not a competitive issue, why underinflate and deal with this bullshit? And why would Rodgers overinflate. They are the football players, not you.

FWIW, Chris Cooley had a substantial career in the NFL as a TE. He host sports radio show in DC, He is an unabashed admirer of BB and the Pats. And while noting that this was not a factor in a blowout win vs Colts, he said that underinflated balls confer a huge advantage for receivers in the rain.

I'm going to go back and try to find the post from earlier but I believe the gist of it was that testing of two balls with different psi showed that the weight was identical, the difference in grip was negligible and that accuracy actually decreased with less psi.

Why would they do it? Superstition, feel, etc... The same reasons that Julian Edelman wears red gloves while gronk wears white gloves. Brady has a perception or thought that he likes it better that way, his mind may not be aligned with reality.

 

[moondog80]

• 2012 NY Jets: O Tannenbaum, gone (410,298 views)
• Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st Degree Murder; released by Patriots (298,826 views)

Tannenbaum fired more of a story than this and Aaron Hernandez? WTF?

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

ESPN just did their sports science thing. 2 psi reduced weight by less than weight of a dollar bill. Grip compression was improved by less than 1 mm. Lower weight actually reduced the velocity of his throws and changed accuracy by an inch. The extra weight of rain drops actually increased weight of ball by factor of 10 compared to change from psi.

This is the post I was referring to

 

[mpx42]

Long time fan, first time poster. Something puzzles me. Initially it was reported that the Colts interception led to the staff noticing underinflated football, which led to everything else. Then it was also reported that Colts had told referees before the game to look out for underinflated football.

If both reports were true, why didn't officials pay extra attention to the ball and/or ballboy who handled the ball? Assuming they did pay extra attention, why didn't they notice the balls were still underinflated after the interception and before halftime? Was it because they couldn't tell whether the ball was underinflated even AFTER the headsup from the Colts (incompetence)? If they had noticed the ball(s) continued to be underinflated, why did they wait until the 2nd half to ask for new balls? Shouldn't they have asked for replacement balls right away? 
 
Same questions can be asked even if only one of the two reports were true. The entire thing sounds like a setup. 

 
"Long time listener, first time caller..."
 
The Colts telling the refs to look out for underinflated footballs doesn't necessarily mean "watch them to make sure no one tampers with them," just keep your eyes out for them. Don't know why they couldn't tell they were light. My guess is we'll get a ton more details by the end of the week.

 

[Spelunker]

• 2012 NY Jets: O Tannenbaum, gone (410,298 views)
• Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st Degree Murder; released by Patriots (298,826 views)

The Jets outdrawing l'affaire sweetleaf says something about us. Likely nothing good.

 

[dcmissle]

So football players can tell the difference of PSI, referees cannot? This strikes me as outlandish. 

Really? Participating vs officiating, and you are siding with the officiators?

Then why have the 1 psi wide standard in the first place?

EDIT. And why fly outside the rules and put yourself at risk for something like this if it confers no advantage? Your position makes no sense.

 

[Harry Hooper]

According to an earlier post in this thread, BB was absolved of, and got the league to burn evidence of him taping the Rams walk-through because he had evidence that would have forced the league to investigate (whatever, a dozen) other teams. So where is that leverage now on a seemingly lesser infraction? Did he have a handshake deal with Goodell to burn his evidence in exchange for no fine? But why would anyone ever trust Belichick to come through on his part of that deal when all the man has ever done is cheat and cheat some more. And then cheat. Very perplexing.

 
That story seems to be a crock since the evidence wasn't burned but played on a closed loop by Goodell to the reporters when he announced the Pats punishment for the in-game taping of signals.

 

[DJnVa]

Tannenbaum fired more of a story than this and Aaron Hernandez? WTF?

 
That's just what the last title was edited to. That was the buttfumble season-long thread.

 

[kenneycb]

Tannenbaum fired more of a story than this and Aaron Hernandez? WTF?

It was the thread for the entire Jets season.  SSF frequently changed the headline.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I'm going to go back and try to find the post from earlier but I believe the gist of it was that testing of two balls with different psi showed that the weight was identical, the difference in grip was negligible and that accuracy actually decreased with less psi.

Why would they do it? Superstition, feel, etc... The same reasons that Julian Edelman wears red gloves while gronk wears white gloves. Brady has a perception or thought that he likes it better that way, his mind may not be aligned with reality.

 
 
FWIW, Zolak on WBZ today said QB's really have specific preferences regarding the laces on the ball for their grip more than the PSI in the ball.

 

[kenneycb]

 
That story seems to be a crock since the evidence wasn't burned but played on a closed loop by Goodell to the reporters when he announced the Pats punishment for the in-game taping of signals.

Plus the alluded to evidence never existed.

 

[RedOctober3829]

So I've given this some thought. If *I* were going to try to manipulate these rules given Sumner's calculations and the article in the Globe it would seem kind of simple.
The equipment manager would have control of the balls obviously and would be the guy in charge of interacting with the Refs around the approval process. I'm betting there is a large laundry room used for the normal business around a professional sports team. When fully humming I bet the room is hot and humid - it would surprise me if that room didn't get to 80 degrees or more. That would be the room I would store the balls in, and would meet the Refs in to measure the inflation. I would make sure the balls were at 12.5 psi and I'm betting all the Refs know that most QBs like the ball a little under and I'm betting if they really do break out the gages each game they aren't going to fuss too much if the balls hit the lower end of the range - especially if both QBs are after the same thing. It really seems that it could be that simple. The league specifies 13 psi, they start at 12.5psi or so, the temp difference from the laundry room to the outdoors works its magic - and you are looking at the 1.5-2.0 psi difference everyone is reporting. If you want to push things, you raise the thermostat in that room a few more degrees, and make sure all the dryers are running. You take advantage of the science, you don't 'tamper' with the balls at all, everyone is happy.
While I have no idea if this is what *is* or has happened, it would seem to be that simple.
If that were the extent of it - what would/could the league do?

The laundry room isn't 80 degrees or warmer. The heat goes out a pipe similar to a home system. The footballs are kept in a separate room.

 

[Stitch01]

Really? Participating vs officiating, and you are siding with the officiators?
Then why have the 1 psi wide standard in the first place?
EDIT. And why fly outside the rules and put yourself at risk for something like this if it confers no advantage? Your position makes no sense.

Why drive 61 in a 55?

 

[Jake Peavy's Demons]

Thank goodness Dr. Phil weighed in, because he's a fucking expert!
 
Fake edit: Is that bondage jewellery Kristy Swanson has on upthread? Interesting.

 

[bsj]

My trip to Indianapolis next week is going to be interesting.

 

[RedOctober3829]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ev-BtPMM8[/youtube]

 

[RetractableRoof]

The laundry room isn't 80 degrees or warmer. The heat goes out a pipe similar to a home system. The footballs are kept in a separate room.

Every commercial laundromat I've ever been in has been significantly warmer than an average room.

So much for my career as a professional sports schemer.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

I've been advocating for years the need for officials to measure the PSI of the ball in between every play (aside from kneel-downs).

 
So much for hurry-up offense.

 

[54thMA]

 And while noting that this was not a factor in a blowout win vs Colts, he said that underinflated balls confer a huge advantage for receivers in the rain.

 
 Interesting point; speaking of the rain, does anyone know if rain/getting wet effects the weight of the ball?
 
  In a monsoon like they played in Sunday night, does the ball getting wet cause it to weigh more?  I understand the ref is putting a towel around it and they are continually rotating balls in and out of play, but I was wondering if anyone can comment on if the ball getting wet effects the weight; if it does, taking air out of it would offset to some extend the extra weight that water adds.
 
 This probably sounds idiotic, but I'm grasping at straws trying to figure out why they did what they did/what they have been accused of doing. 
 
RedOctober3829; any thoughts?
 

 

[soxfanSJCA]

Well, there go the skinny arms. Ed, she back in play for you now?

What a hitter!!

 

[Granite Sox]

My trip to Indianapolis next week is going to be interesting.

MarcSullivan and I have softened things up for you here... Imagine a city full of 13 year-old girls...

Volin submitting this suck a few minutes ago:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/21/onfoot/x9cDtrfMPAO15Stwm4uXrN/story.html

 

[Carlos Cowart]

Not trolling, dipshits, being sarcastic. There's a theory out there that earlier infractions didn't stick to the Pats solely because Belichick has photos with Goodell and little boys.

 

[simplyeric]

The laundry room isn't 80 degrees or warmer. The heat goes out a pipe similar to a home system. The footballs are kept in a separate room.

Not that I think it really matters but:
Commercial dryers are often gas fired, and are not necessarily well insulated (the extra insulation wouldn't confer much added efficiency but would add cost). So there's probably a fair amount of heat load added to a laundry room.
Sure, there's a dryer vent, and a flue, but there's lot of heat emmitted from the units.
Probably from washers too, from the hot water.

It's not remotely hard for me to believe that a laundry room would be significantly warmer than other conditioned space.

Again: it's likely not particularly relevant.

 

[86spike]

I doubt the benefit has anything to do with the weight of a rained-on ball. It's about the slipperiness.

A deflated ball can be gripped a bit tighter by the passer (helping alleviate a slippery wet grip) and when that ball comes whipping in to a receiver's hands, it's a bit soft and less likely to slip out of his grip or bounce off his hands. Same would go for a runner gripping the wet ball. Less likelihood of fumbling a ball that you can squeeze a bit more tightly.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Not that I think it really matters but:
Commercial dryers are often gas fired, and are not necessarily well insulated (the extra insulation wouldn't confer much added efficiency but would add cost). So there's probably a fair amount of heat load added to a laundry room.
Sure, there's a dryer vent, and a flue, but there's lot of heat emmitted from the units.
Probably from washers too, from the hot water.

It's not remotely hard for me to believe that a laundry room would be significantly warmer than other conditioned space.

Again: it's likely not particularly relevant.

I don't have to try to believe it because I work in a laundry room every day. The temperature is not much different than the rest of our area.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

 
 
"Canty, as a man of utmost integrity, then immediatly submitted himself to testing for PED's, recreational drugs and Burmese Chlamydia.  'The Ravens don't sully themselves with such base conduct' he said solemnly. "
 
"Canty also added 'We tough the air pressure out of footballs, they finesse it in secret ' while he calmly set down his Sour Grape Sizzurp and dropped a haymaker on one of his drunken bitches"

Lol. Perfect.

 

[koufax32]

Not trolling, dipshits, being sarcastic. There's a theory out there that earlier infractions didn't stick to the Pats solely because Belichick has photos with Goodell and little boys.

This is by far the dumbest thing in this thread. So he would withhold evidence of a horrible life altering crime in order to use it as a bargaining chip if he ever got caught bending football rules??? This goes so far beyond tin foil hats. Where is this theory from, who says it, when did it begin, etc because throwing immensely stupid stuff like this around is...I honestly don't know what to call it.


Edit: I would love nothing more than to be mocked by someone for not recognizing sarcasm or hyperbole. This stir has been so stupid I don't even know what is serious and what is satire anymore. Step 1 to recovery is boycotting ESPN until the end of next week.

 

[kartvelo]

If they did deflate the balls (for which as yet there is zero evidence), it's likely they did so for the same reason that runners don't get called safe when the infielder pulls of the "neighborhood play" on a double play - that is, everybody does it and nobody, players, coaches, or officials, gives a damn that everybody does it. But if someone protests, pulls out a rulebook, and points at the rule being broken, somebody has to deal with the situation somehow.
 
As mentioned above, it's like driving 62 in a 55 zone. Traffic's whipping along at 70, but if a cop pulls you over and you're doing 62, you're the one who gets a ticket while your fellow drivers, some of whom are travelling at 75, zoom past and cast pitying or smug looks your way as you get written up.

 

[Leather]

Lol.

 

[54thMA]

I doubt the benefit has anything to do with the weight of a rained-on ball. It's about the slipperiness.

A deflated ball can be gripped a bit tighter by the passer (helping alleviate a slippery wet grip) and when that ball comes whipping in to a receiver's hands, it's a bit soft and less likely to slip out of his grip or bounce off his hands. Same would go for a runner gripping the wet ball. Less likelihood of fumbling a ball that you can squeeze a bit more tightly.

 
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate it.
 

 

 

[Kull]

If "ball differential" is such a heinous crime why does the NFL even allow this whole system of different balls for different teams? That's insane......unless the reality is that everybody in the game (with the probable exception of the commissioner) has always known that it's an incredibly tiny difference which is overwhelmed by a multitude of more important game aspects like individual player talent, coaching, formations, playcalls and 1000 other things. So either come out and say "it's a minor issue with little actual impact" or eliminate even the perception that one team's balls could be marginally better than another's and have them all play with the same ones.
 
Edit: typo

 

[nighthob]

As mentioned above, it's like driving 62 in a 55 zone. Traffic's whipping along at 70, but if a cop pulls you over and you're doing 62, you're the one who gets a ticket while your fellow drivers, some of whom are travelling at 75, zoom past and cast pitying or smug looks your way as you get written up.

That's terrible. You're supposed to give the poor bastard a thumbs up for taking one for the side.

 

[kartvelo]

Well, I'm just trying to describe it in terms analogous to what's happening here.

 

[Caspir]

CNN had an expert on who says that the Patriot way is about doing whatever takes to win by any means. This is a segue from a conversation about Aaron Hernandez and the image problem of the NFL and how owners and teams don't care. Someone pointed out that he was cut before he as charged while "others" who committed crimes weren't, but the other lady countered with Tom Brady getting hair plu gs and being secretive even about that. This shit is awesome. That it's Don Lemon I'd even better. (I was flipping past and saw the deflate gate header so I paused.)

Is there still a game or will they just hold a gladiator style trial by crowd.

 

[GBrushTWood]

To me, the most depressing part of all this is reading the incredulous responses from quarterbacks and coaches across the league, essentially asking "who gives a fuck?" Deep down, I know that is not going to matter one bit to the lying, corrupt sociopath responsible for making this decision. I hope I am wrong. Everybody with functioning neurons can see this is a waste of time (and ultimately the fault of the NFL for rolling out a broken process in the first place) and has no material impact on any game outcome. This is lawyer/procedural bullshit.
 
Not gonna matter though. We have an ideologue consumed with proving to the world how strong and righteous he is. Bad times. We've seen this script too many times in the last few years. Waiting for this boob Goodell to decide almost feels like headed towards a "football gallows" tomorrow or Friday.  Really hoping we don't see a suspension. I can't believe we're here again. Fuck all of this.

 

[Carlos Cowart]

"So he would withhold evidence of a horrible life altering crime in order to use it as a bargaining chip if he ever got caught bending football rules???"
 
Sarcasm is only for certain people.

 

[LaszloKovacks]

I already hate sports media and most of sports culture in general so this doesn't have a huge bearing on my enjoyment of the game. I will say, my love of this particular roster makes me feel for the guys who have to respond to this during what should be the most exciting time of their lives. 

 

[simplyeric]

I don't have to try to believe it because I work in a laundry room every day. The temperature is not much different than the rest of our area.

You guys must have a really well balanced system then. Kudos!