#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
luckiestman said:
I think there's actually a tipping point here for some fans. There will still be a vocal minority, but I think the more play this stuff gets, the more some non-Pats' fans are just like "enough, I'm tired of hearing about it."
I don't think it's a conspiracy. I do, however, think that this stuff blows up for the Patriots far more quickly and loudly than it does for any other franchise, because it's so easy for the media to churn out.bowiac said:
It's just irritating. If this was the Seahawks, it would be over already.
Schefter on ESPN is reporting that the Colts turned in the ball after the 1st INT yesterday and complained about the under-inflation. That prompted the refs to pull the ball later in the game.
Same secondary player on the Colts that had the two INTs in the game earlier this season and reported the same ball issue at the time.
Same secondary player on the Colts that had the two INTs in the game earlier this season and reported the same ball issue at the time.
Question: the officials are supposed to feel the ball on every play to maker sure it's inflated enough. Presumably this means that they felt the ball when they placed it for the spot just before the INT. So why didn't they catch it?PayrodsFirstClutchHit said:
And there's nothing there that indicates nefarious actions or intents. It's very possible the effect of 300 pound men falling on a ball might cause it to become "abnormal."
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
And how can you say that the Colts are not taking the ball and then deflating it further themselves? I guess that is why the refs took another ball out of play instead of just taking the one that the Colts handed over.
For me, there are two lenses I look at this story through.
The first is through Belichick himself. As a Patriots diehard, there is little doubt that Belichick pushes the boundaries of what is acceptable or legal. When he found that officials would no longer allow his DBs to mug receivers at the line, he began to rebuild his team around his offense and, in particular, his decision-making QB. When teams began to adjust to his spread offense, he re-defined the hurry-up offense. When teams complained they needed more time to adjust to that, he began exploiting uncertainty around what is an eligible receiver. And so on.
Finding competitive advantages on the field and in the locker room where others don't (or perhaps can't) is the defining characteristic of his coaching success. As a result, I would argue that no coach has had a more profound influence on the game -- or individual, if you consider what a coach-driven game and league it is.
Secondly, is the league's culture. Competitive drive isn't just about gold medals and hard work. The same thing that made Michael Jordan the greatest player of his generation drove him to do things like bet $10K on golf putts against friends (and god knows what else). It's what made Bird continue to play for four years longer than he should have with a broken back because he couldn't stand to hang it up before Magic Johnson.
The NFL, like so many other aspects of its culture, has a history with gamesmanship here that has rarely been told. George Allen sending spies to his opponents' practices. Jimmy Johnson and other coaches admitting to filming their opponents. And let's be clear: Belichick has been 100% at the forefront of this: manipulating injury reports, leaving the tarp off the field before a team comes to play in the snow. It's nothing a thousand other coaches haven't done before -- but never under the glare of 21st century media given his success.
For me, this is the clearest reason Goodell destroyed the tapes during Spygate and came down so hard on Belichick. The alternative was basically admitting this long, sordid history. By making an example of the league's most prominent coach, he not only sent a message to other teams and also suggested that the kind of behavior was the exception not run of the mill, and the result of one man's transgression.
None of which is to say Ballghazi is legitimate or not -- it may well be. But the fundamental tension here is not whether Belichick is a cheater or not. It's not even whether sordid gamesmanship has always been a part of the game. It's that these kinds of things are essential to the game and its evolution into the wild success and money printing facility it is today.
Some people have a vested interest in not wanting us to believe that.
The first is through Belichick himself. As a Patriots diehard, there is little doubt that Belichick pushes the boundaries of what is acceptable or legal. When he found that officials would no longer allow his DBs to mug receivers at the line, he began to rebuild his team around his offense and, in particular, his decision-making QB. When teams began to adjust to his spread offense, he re-defined the hurry-up offense. When teams complained they needed more time to adjust to that, he began exploiting uncertainty around what is an eligible receiver. And so on.
Finding competitive advantages on the field and in the locker room where others don't (or perhaps can't) is the defining characteristic of his coaching success. As a result, I would argue that no coach has had a more profound influence on the game -- or individual, if you consider what a coach-driven game and league it is.
Secondly, is the league's culture. Competitive drive isn't just about gold medals and hard work. The same thing that made Michael Jordan the greatest player of his generation drove him to do things like bet $10K on golf putts against friends (and god knows what else). It's what made Bird continue to play for four years longer than he should have with a broken back because he couldn't stand to hang it up before Magic Johnson.
The NFL, like so many other aspects of its culture, has a history with gamesmanship here that has rarely been told. George Allen sending spies to his opponents' practices. Jimmy Johnson and other coaches admitting to filming their opponents. And let's be clear: Belichick has been 100% at the forefront of this: manipulating injury reports, leaving the tarp off the field before a team comes to play in the snow. It's nothing a thousand other coaches haven't done before -- but never under the glare of 21st century media given his success.
For me, this is the clearest reason Goodell destroyed the tapes during Spygate and came down so hard on Belichick. The alternative was basically admitting this long, sordid history. By making an example of the league's most prominent coach, he not only sent a message to other teams and also suggested that the kind of behavior was the exception not run of the mill, and the result of one man's transgression.
None of which is to say Ballghazi is legitimate or not -- it may well be. But the fundamental tension here is not whether Belichick is a cheater or not. It's not even whether sordid gamesmanship has always been a part of the game. It's that these kinds of things are essential to the game and its evolution into the wild success and money printing facility it is today.
Some people have a vested interest in not wanting us to believe that.
Excerpts from the rule book:
So, speculating what the plausible scenarios:
a.) A small number (1 to 3) of balls provided by the Pats were underinflated due to just random, unpredictable error. This was either found out when the referee tested the balls prior to the game, or when the Colts complained about the intercepted ball during the game. As per protocol, the Commissioner's office was notified. Probability: 98%.
b.) The Pats intern decided to enjoy some brews with the early tailgaters prior to pumping the balls. He misread the inflation gauges, and as a result most of the provided balls were under inflated. Probability: 1%.
c.) The Pats intern, with the blessing of the coaching staff, deliberately under inflated all 12 balls in an attempt to give Brady an edge. He did this knowing that the balls would be subject to testing by the Referee prior to the start of the game. Probability: 0.99%.
d.) The Pats hired a saboteur that sneakily walked over to the ball rack by the Pats sidelines and discreetly deflated the 12 game balls just prior to kickoff. Probability: 0.01%.
Am I really missing something here?
So, speculating what the plausible scenarios:
a.) A small number (1 to 3) of balls provided by the Pats were underinflated due to just random, unpredictable error. This was either found out when the referee tested the balls prior to the game, or when the Colts complained about the intercepted ball during the game. As per protocol, the Commissioner's office was notified. Probability: 98%.
b.) The Pats intern decided to enjoy some brews with the early tailgaters prior to pumping the balls. He misread the inflation gauges, and as a result most of the provided balls were under inflated. Probability: 1%.
c.) The Pats intern, with the blessing of the coaching staff, deliberately under inflated all 12 balls in an attempt to give Brady an edge. He did this knowing that the balls would be subject to testing by the Referee prior to the start of the game. Probability: 0.99%.
d.) The Pats hired a saboteur that sneakily walked over to the ball rack by the Pats sidelines and discreetly deflated the 12 game balls just prior to kickoff. Probability: 0.01%.
Am I really missing something here?
And if that wasn't enough ...
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/19/new-england-patriots-deflategate-bill-belichick-tom-brady
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/19/new-england-patriots-deflategate-bill-belichick-tom-brady
I don't understand this:
He wasn't trying anything illegal and if someone can write that a week later with all the statements and experts confirming that, then there's something wrong with them.
Not to mention, it's pretty much the ref's job description to tell someone they are doing something illegal.
He wasn't trying anything illegal and if someone can write that a week later with all the statements and experts confirming that, then there's something wrong with them.
Not to mention, it's pretty much the ref's job description to tell someone they are doing something illegal.
Sports Illustrated has that guy writing under their flag? He thinks the Pats are still stealing defensive signals even though signals are used no more thanks to the green dot system.
Some of these dumbfucks would've called Paul Brown a cheater for developing an offense that frequently employed the forward pass.
Van Everyman said:
Slightly off topic, but when I worked on Bill Wennington's Tales from the Chicago Bulls Locker Room, my favorite Jordan story is that he would bet one the scoreboard dot races with teammates, but what they didn't know is that he would find out what color was going to win ahead of time, so they were always guaranteed to lose--every possible winning edge indeed.
Well it depends, right? I think Florio has framed the issues usefully:
"Per a league source, the Patriots officially have been informed of the investigation, and the investigation will be thorough and transparent. Consequences, if any, will come in the offseason, with a full explanation from the NFL as to what happened and why punishment was (or wasn’t) imposed.
In this specific case, the investigation will focus on whether the balls were properly weighed and measured by officials before the game started, whether anything happened while the balls were in the custody of the referee, and whether anything happened after the balls were given by the referee to the ball attendant."
Doors A and B lead nowhere, IMO, even assuming the balls were not properly inflated because that's really on the refs -- unless one is willing to indulge the ridiculous assumption that the Pats messed with the balls while in referee custody.
Door C is entirely different, I think. If the balls were messed while in the custody of the ball attendant -- who is a team employee -- I think the NFL Office will cut the team's balls off. And it probably should, even if the actions had no impact on the game. I hope nobody was this stupid.
That SI article is the biggest piece of used toilet paper I've seen in a while. Never mind the fact that he got the substitution and eligible receiver rules wrong. I never knew that Belichick has a duty to share the details of his expected play calls with the referee before a game.
That's not really sensible. There are factors beyond payroll equality that differentiate sports, and baseball pretty much always has more parity than football (a world-class QB probably has more influence on a team's performance than any player on your baseball team, since starting pitchers have to rotate; find a good one and you'll have a huge leg up on continually being good).There is no Rev said:
http://espn.go.com/blog/jayson-stark/post/_/id/11/mlb-greater-parity-nfl
E5 Yaz said:
No, I stopped reading the article.
dcmissle said:
Yes, but what constitutes proof of being messed with under Door C? The league doesn't run checks during each game, but if they did how many balls under game conditions would be judged under-inflated?
This only talks about how both teams handle/prepare the ball up until a few hours before game time when they are checked by the refs, at which time, presumably, they are properly inflated.Jnai said:
So the question is what is the procedure after that point? I thought that I read up-thread that ball boys from the home team are on both sidelines, giving the balls to the refs. What is the chain of custody after the balls are initially checked, because unless the refs were in on it, we have to assume that any tampering would be after the check. And if they are under the control of employees of the home team during that time, the idea that this would have come up during the regular season meeting is suspect.
Additionally, the complaint came after a Colts' possession, meaning that the accusation is that the ball attendants doctored the balls, since the Colts get to use their own supplied balls.
dcmissile is terrified.
I actually don't hate on the SI article that much. I agree that the TV camera and the towel boy stuff sounds ridiculous but if you take the technology out of it and added "Back when I was a kid..." to the beginning, does it sound that ludicrous?
These guys are obsessed. I half imagine Ernie Adams built that TV thing himself.
The point is, they all are. The best ones anyway. Where the article steps wrong, IMO, is when it suggests that there is this magical line that no one else dare cross for fear of being tarred a cheater. But that flies in the face of pretty much every single team in the history of the game.
The truth is, this League has never had a moral center (one of the things that makes the fact that the Pats are run by Kraft and operated by Belichick so fascinating). It's not 42. It's There Will Be Blood. And the sooner the League realizes that and embraces it, the sooner we can get back to enjoying these guys give is brain damage for our amusement.
I actually don't hate on the SI article that much. I agree that the TV camera and the towel boy stuff sounds ridiculous but if you take the technology out of it and added "Back when I was a kid..." to the beginning, does it sound that ludicrous?
These guys are obsessed. I half imagine Ernie Adams built that TV thing himself.
The point is, they all are. The best ones anyway. Where the article steps wrong, IMO, is when it suggests that there is this magical line that no one else dare cross for fear of being tarred a cheater. But that flies in the face of pretty much every single team in the history of the game.
The truth is, this League has never had a moral center (one of the things that makes the fact that the Pats are run by Kraft and operated by Belichick so fascinating). It's not 42. It's There Will Be Blood. And the sooner the League realizes that and embraces it, the sooner we can get back to enjoying these guys give is brain damage for our amusement.
Awesome piece. I especially like the part where he is mad Patriots players didn't want to go out for kava with him after the game. It's a symbolic, non alcoholic drink you know. When I think of Polynesian culture, I think Michael Rosenberg. Belicheat's disrespect knows no bounds.E5 Yaz said:
And this is the part I'm struggling with. Such an act just seems so stupid and pointless that I'm not sure why anyone on the Pats would even entertain such a notion.dcmissle said:
One of the most egregiously under reported parts of the Spygate fiasco was that the Pats could have taped those signals from the box where the assistant coaches sit. Belichick knew that, probably figured it was therefore no big deal to continue to tape from the sidelines, not realizing that such an act of defiance was not going to be tolerated by the new Commish. So, while one could accuse Belichick of a certain amount of "hubris and arrogance" for continuing to tape from the sidelines, it's not hard to see how it happened.
Honestly, there is no logical explanation for allowing a ball attendant to tamper with the balls from the sideline. Or maybe I'm totally naive to the way the NFL actually works.
That's nothing. Did you know that the Patriots players all get their own parking places at Gillette, but the opposing team has to share rides in a BUS when they play there? When will the NFL stop this injustice?
Suppose, for example, that the balls were properly inflated when turned into the refs, who would presumably support that when interviewed (if they don't keep records). Or suppose, they weren't and the refs got them up to standard. Those are doors A and B and are designed to be the fail safe mechanism. In either case, the balls are up to snuff when turned over to the attendant.
Now suppose the balls were weighed this morning and found to be uniformly underinflated. That's a problem.
Now this assumes that the balls were properly identified and that somebody can establish a chain of custody. Maybe they can't. But if they can, that's how I would analyze it.
My favorite portion of what is an almost unreadable article:E5 Yaz said:
>>The code of silence in New England is legendary, and almost comical -- Sunday night, a few players were wary of talking to me about getting together and drinking kava, a drink that is symbolic in Polynesian cultures. The drink is non-alcoholic, and it has nothing to do with football, but players understand: In New England, you don’t say nothin' about nothin’.<<
Maybe, just maybe, it’s because what players do after the game is none of your business. Tool.
To a lot of people, our franchise is Ted DiBiase. Just embrace it and enjoy it. This won't last forever.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9i6-oa4Kw[/media]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9i6-oa4Kw[/media]
Yes, such an act would be stupid and pointless. But there is human nature. And it would be such a ballsy move that nobody would ever believe it was done by some lone wolf employee and not at the direction of the coaching staff.
E5 Yaz said:
I don't know why you guys are so delusional - this article is pretty spot on.
The Patriots cheat. Belichick is a cheater and everything they have accomplished is tainted by the fact that they have routinely crossed lines. Accept that you root for a bunch of cheating scumbags who do things no other team in the NFL would consider doing for fear of tarnishing the integrity of the NFL and move on with your lives. The New England Cheatriots are real and you support them.
dcmissle said:
By a literal reading of the NFL rules, the refs would have to notify the Commissioner if that happened.
Maybe, unless they just lost some of their inflation over night due to natural causes.
"Hey guys, congrats on your huge team win! Want to head to Game On for some Kava shots with me, Michael Rosenberg?"
Patriots player X: "Who the fuck are you?"
That TV is also like 200 yards away lol. Nobody is looking at that for challenges, not to mention you have people watching TVs in the booths. This is great stuff.
Belichick also has zero successful challenges all year.
Patriots player X: "Who the fuck are you?"
That TV is also like 200 yards away lol. Nobody is looking at that for challenges, not to mention you have people watching TVs in the booths. This is great stuff.
Belichick also has zero successful challenges all year.
Will be cool to be a Pats player and hear this bullshit for 2 weeks.
They dragged Indy around the fucking field in all three phases and the credit they should be getting for such a resounding victory will be greatly overshadowed by more score-settling in the media, as well as the HURR-DURR shark effect it creates.
They dragged Indy around the fucking field in all three phases and the credit they should be getting for such a resounding victory will be greatly overshadowed by more score-settling in the media, as well as the HURR-DURR shark effect it creates.
Nails it.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I can't wait until the lamestream sports media has the guts to report the well-known story that every concussion in the NFL is caused by the Patriots. I mean, why do you think all of those tapes were destroyed?