#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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Red(s)HawksFan

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amarshal2 said:
I keep reading this and the only thing I see different is "the NFL says".

So your loop hole is the NFL is lying?
 
More that we don't know what "the NFL says" means at all.  Who is "the NFL" when we're talking about an anonymous tip/leak to a single reporter?  How close is this "NFL" to the actual review/investigation/sting operation to know these "facts"?  Are they in fact getting their "facts" correct when they leak them?  It doesn't have to be a lie, it could merely be ill-informed or mis-understood or mis-stated "facts" that these reporters run to twitter and TV with to get their due attention.
 

Two Youks

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Nightslyr said:
 
That's not a control group.  Like I asked a page or two ago, does the league routinely check the pressures of the balls at half time?  If not, they can't say that the deflation found in the Patriots' balls are abnormal because they have nothing to compare it to.
 
To expand on my train of thought, Brady (somewhat jokingly) said a year or two ago that he likes it when Gronk spikes the ball because it deflates it a little bit.  If it's true that a single action can deflate the ball noticeably, doesn't it stand to reason that the various hits and compression that a ball suffers in normal play can do the same?
 
Again, if the league can't say "In the course of a half balls typically lose between x and y PSI," then checking them at halftime is absolutely worthless.  
 

Ralphwiggum

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Assuming Brady lied at the press conference:
 
Option A:  Brady lied because he doesn't not want to admit to tampering with football due to potential NFL fines and suspensions, as well as tarnishing his legacy in the eyes of many NFL fans
 
Option B:  Brady lied because he's worried about selling Uggs to women, who hate cheaters more than men.
 
Can we just ruminate on the fact that Sal Pal chose Option B for a minute.  
 

Laser Show

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Comfortably Lomb said:
 
One of the late night shows could probably put a decent bit together by walking down the street and asking people "the Patriots were using balls that were two pounds under-inflated, how much of an impact do you think it made that Brady was throwing a ball that was two pounds lighter than the Colts balls?"
I would pay money to see this.
 

shepard50

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RedOctober3829 said:
Sweet comparison: murder and deflated footballs.
 
The comparison is of proof, I am 100% convinced that this should not be a big issue. I just have a hard time believing that the Patriots didn't alter the footballs.
 

Laser Show

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If there's anyone here that doesn't believe Brady, this is a pretty good point
 
https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/558691459042660352
 

mauidano

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shepard50 said:
 
OJ Simpson was never committed of murder. Would you have let your sister date him (y'know, before he went to prison on the other thing)?
There was substantial evidence that OJ did it.  We have NO evidence to consider other than a quote from a couple of ESPN hacks.  Again, everything else is rampant hysterical opinions.
 

Eddie Jurak

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amarshal2 said:
I keep reading this and the only thing I see different is "the NFL says".

So your loop hole is the NFL is lying?
I shouldn't have said "the NFL". The reporters' sources, presumably with some connection to the NFL, say it. That's not the same as finding hard evidence of same.

If the referees did a shoddy job of checking the balls pre game, then yes, I would absolutely expect them to lie about it during this media shitstorm.
 

lexrageorge

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amarshal2 said:
I keep reading this and the only thing I see different is "the NFL says".

So your loop hole is the NFL is lying?
The NFL hasn't said anything, so noone is claiming the NFL is lying.
 
The reports, which state that 11 of 12 balls were about 2psi below standard, are coming from "league sources" that Mortensen has contacted.  There has been almost no independent collaboration of these reports from reporters talking to other sources.  
 
Mort's sources could be lying, or they could be misinformed, or overly distraught.  Or they could be correct.  Mort is normally reliable, but the details may or may not be 100% accurate (e.g., were all 11 balls truly 2psi below?).  
 
Schefter's sources tell him that actual evidence of tampering is hard to come by.  He's also in Mort's class as far as reliability goes.  
 
The only one that has claimed that all 48 balls were tested and were determined to be in range at the start of the game (a hugely important point in all this) is Volin, and his reliability is suspect.  
 

Brand Name

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loshjott said:
Unless I missed it, still nothing but the original Mort report that says balls were actually 2.0 PSI below the minimum.
Forgive my potential stupidity, but why has this report largely been ignored by nearly every party; be it us, the mediots, or Pats players? In so much pointless speculation and hot air wasted, and in spite of Mort's occasional habit of jumping to conclusions, this seems to be a point of tangible evidence. This hasn't been refuted by any party to my knowledge; and I've read nearly all of the thread. What incentive do we have to not believe it?
 
It's not a court room, but I'm in favor of no punishment given stare decisis. The Panther case of virtually the same offense, if you can call it that, was punished with a verbal warning. People laughed off Rodgers overinflated ball. This whole story, from it becoming national, taking away from more important stories, not to mention potentially taking away Super Bowl preparations, is an absolute disgrace on this country's media.
 

shepard50

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mauidano said:
There was substantial evidence that OJ did it.  We have NO evidence to consider other than a quote from a couple of ESPN hacks.  Again, everything else is rampant hysterical opinions.
 
 
the NFL sent a letter to the Patriots, shared with the Globe,  (Bold mine)
 
 
According to a National Football League letter about the investigation into the controversy that was shared with the Globe, the Patriots were informed that the league’s initial findings indicated that the game balls did not meet specifications. The league inspected each of the Patriots’ 12 game balls twice at halftime, using different pressure gauges, and found footballs that were not properly inflated.
According to ESPN, 11 of the 12 game balls were found to be underinflated by about 2 pounds each. The NFL specifications say they must be inflated to 12½ to 13½ pounds.
 
The NFL is the source. In a letter. 
 

amarshal2

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
More that we don't know what "the NFL says" means at all.  Who is "the NFL" when we're talking about an anonymous tip/leak to a single reporter?  How close is this "NFL" to the actual review/investigation/sting operation to know these "facts"?  Are they in fact getting their "facts" correct when they leak them?  It doesn't have to be a lie, it could merely be ill-informed or mis-understood or mis-stated "facts" that these reporters run to twitter and TV with to get their due attention.
This is exactly repeating my initial point.
1) the reporting on the testing of the balls is wrong (as done by mort, peter king, ben volin)
Or
2) rogue ball boy

Edit: same to lexrageorge
 

singaporesoxfan

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Even if the media wants clicks and views, there are so many missed opportunities. I mean, ESPN could blindfold Mark Brunell and have him face a firing squad test out balls inflated to different psi and see if he can really tell the difference. Someone could interview equipment managers and walk through what their day looks like (the TV equivalent of the earlier Peter King and NYT articles on how balls are handled). Someone else could say "well, the Super Bowl is in Arizona - how will that dry air change the ball? Let's speak to the Cardinals equipment guys about how they have to treat the ball differently". Or ask Carson Palmer whether he had to adjust his ball prep to account for the difference compared to all the other places he's played in the past.
 
All of that would make for good reality-TV style watching, better than simply another variation of talking heads sitting in a panel talking. I'd learn something too.
 

soxfan80000001

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Why are people taking "2", used in a twitter tweet relaying second hand information, to mean "2.000000000000000"?  I mean, I guess I see where the confusion is, 2 usually is 2, but that "2" in the tweet is just as likely to actually be a "1.6" or a "2.2".
 
When you get into some of those other numbers, like 1.6, that would conceivably also be represented as "2" in a twitter tweet based on second hand information, those numbers start to be in the realm of the expected pressure drop from cooling a ball by 30 degrees F.
 
Chirs Mort's source: All the balls were a few PSI under when we measured them at halftime, except for 1.
Chris Mort: 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI under pressure
SoSH: 11 of 12 balls were exactly 2.000000 PSI under pressure
bob420: 11 of 12 balls were exactly 2.000000 PSI under pressure and there is no explanation other than tom brady raped a unicorn while using the unicorn horn to deflate the balls on the sideline.
 

Rosey Ruzicka

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Simmons got a 3 week suspension for calling Goodell a liar without proof.   ESPN's superbowl coverage is going to be Adam Schefter alone in an empty studio after all the suspensions they are going to hand out over Brady/Belichick comments.
 

Van Everyman

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MMQB piece by Don Banks on how silly this whole thing is. I enjoyed this quote in particular:

I find it deflating that my colleague, Peter King, actually called for the league to institute background checks on ball boys and make them pass through metal detectors before reaching the sidelines, an idea that sounds somewhat reasonable in today’s everything-is-absolutely-critically-important-and-we-must-get-it-right climate that pervades the NFL.

That’s where we’re at? Background checks and metal detectors for ball boys? Heaven help us.
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/nfl-playoffs-deflategate-super-bowl-49-new-england-patriots-tom-brady-bill-belichick/
 

JimD

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It astonishes me, in the wake of the Rice fiasco, that the league has such little control of its employees and cannot even begin to control the gushing firehose of leaks to reporters.  The owners should be furious about this - it's just the hated Patriots right now but the next media firestorm could be an NFL-wide issue that costs all of them a lot of money.
 

Dewy4PrezII

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shepard50 said:
 
OJ Simpson was never committed of murder. Would you have let your sister date him (y'know, before he went to prison on the other thing)?
But at least he got to trial, half this damn country has convicted the patriots of cheating based on rumor, speculation and anonymous sources...and some of the idiots are calling for them to be banned from the superbowl, have the coach suspended for a season, suspend the QB for the superbow.  Troy Aikman, who threw footballs (properly inflated!) to coke snorting, greenie popping, steroid injecting, wife beating receivers, thinks that under-inflating a football is worse that a team that paid players to injure other teams players.  Let that sink in for a second.  Trying to physically damage a person and possibly shorten or end their career (or worse given what we now know about concussions) is worse to that moron than letting a few PSI out of a football and that is without knowing any salient facts about what happened other than what has been reported from unknown NFL sources.
 

Laser Show

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RedOctober3829 said:
I'll ask this for the 100th time: why can the QB wear a glove to enhance his grip but can't have the ball at a different PSI?
Because to change or break these arbitrary rules would threaten the bastion  of moral integrity that is professional sports in the 21st century and undermine western civilization.
 

WayBackVazquez

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RedOctober3829 said:
I'll ask this for the 100th time: why can the QB wear a glove to enhance his grip but can't have the ball at a different PSI?
 
Why is marijuana possession a federal crime, but not alcohol?
 

lexrageorge

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shepard50 said:
 
 
the NFL sent a letter to the Patriots, shared with the Globe,  (Bold mine)
 
 
The NFL is the source. In a letter. 
The NFL reports that balls were found to be improperly inflated at halftime.  Only ESPN is reporting the "11 of 12 were 2 psi below".  
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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loshjott said:
Unless I missed it, still nothing but the original Mort report that says balls were actually 2.0 PSI below the minimum. Volin's article references ESPN for that fact.  
 
I guess I'm still holding out a faint fan-boyish hope that the underinflated balls were that way only slightly because Brady likes them at the minimum, and they lost some heft during the game naturally.
 
This is where I am.  The only "proof" is what Mort is reporting.  And the part where Mort reported D'Qell Jackson noticed the issue has been proven to be 100% bullshit by D'Quell himself.  How do we know the rest isn't bullshit?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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shepard50 said:
 
 
the NFL sent a letter to the Patriots, shared with the Globe,  (Bold mine)
 
 
The NFL is the source. In a letter. 
 
A source that only says the balls tested were under inflated.  Not the extent to which they were under inflated.  That part is still speculation and innuendo at this point.
 

Kull

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shepard50 said:
 
 
the NFL sent a letter to the Patriots, shared with the Globe,  (Bold mine)
 
 
The NFL is the source. In a letter. 
 
What's interesting is the letter only says "not properly inflated". The 2 PSI thing is referenced back to ESPN, i.e. Mort's original report that has never been confirmed elsewhere.
 
Edit: Too slow!
 

pappymojo

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shepard50 said:
 
 
the NFL sent a letter to the Patriots, shared with the Globe,  (Bold mine)
 
 
The NFL is the source. In a letter. 
 
Actually, this part wasn't in the letter as quoted by the globe. 
 


According to ESPN, 11 of the 12 game balls were found to be underinflated by about 2 pounds each. The NFL specifications say they must be inflated to 12½ to 13½ pounds.
 

Al Zarilla

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There is no Rev said:
 
Did you watch the video?
 
If not, the answer is: Yes.
I watched it again without talking to someone at the same time. Oh yeah! There it is. Ball checks OK (12 and a half, close enough), guy carelessly pulls out needle and enough air leaks out to put the ball out of spec. Again, though, on 11 balls? Still, a good lawyer could get a case thrown out on something like this, right?
 
Another thing is, on a gauge like that, the accuracy may be something like +/- 1% of reading and +/- one minor graduation. If they stupidly use a gauge with a range of 0 - 100 PSI, the +/- 1% alone could produce an error of 1 PSI, and the +/- one graduation can give more error. These could be cumulative. Plus, on an analog meter, unless you carefully look at it straight on, rather than at an angle, you can get even more error. Again, it's possible for all three sources of error to be cumulative. Still, if they were low by 2 PSI out of 12.5 - 13.5, that is pretty far off. But, it's not an unreasonable doubt.
 

Boston Brawler

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BigSoxFan said:
I would pay a large sum of money for Brady to release a book titled "If I did it" where he explains how he would hypothetically have deflated the balls without detection.
This is great.
 

soxfan80000001

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loshjott said:
Unless I missed it, still nothing but the original Mort report that says balls were actually 2.0 PSI below the minimum. Volin's article references ESPN for that fact.  
 
I guess I'm still holding out a faint fan-boyish hope that the underinflated balls were that way only slightly because Brady likes them at the minimum, and they lost some heft during the game naturally.
2, not 2.0.
 

mauidano

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
A source that only says the balls tested were under inflated.  Not the extent to which they were under inflated.  That part is still speculation and innuendo at this point.
Exactly. And people are ready to hang anyone from the Patriots organization from the highest tree based on that? The world needs to settle the fuck down. Mob mentality is always incredibly dangerous.
 

Corsi

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The NFL issued the following statement on Friday afternoon in response to inquiries about “Deflategate”:
 
“Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sunday’s AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.
 
“The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted, including of Patriots personnel, game officials, and third parties with relevant information and expertise. We have obtained and are continuing to obtain additional information, including video and other electronic information and physical evidence. We have retained Renaissance Associates, an investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise to assist in reviewing electronic and video information.
 
“The playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. We take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delay. The investigation is ongoing, will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously. In the coming days, we expect to conduct numerous additional interviews, examine video and other forensic evidence, as well as relevant physical evidence. While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.
 
“Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly.”
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/23/nfl-issues-statement-on-deflategate-investigation/
 

Harry Hooper

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lexrageorge said:
The NFL reports that balls were found to be improperly inflated at halftime.  Only ESPN is reporting the "11 of 12 were 2 psi below".  
 
Right, anything under 12.5 would qualify as improperly inflated, per the letter.
 
 
Edit: glacially too slow.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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And of course, it could and most likely is 2 psi under the target goal of 13 psi.  You're allowed to be over/under by up to .5 psi, which is where we get 12.5 psi from.  So 2 could very well be 1.5 under the allowed amount.
 

riboflav

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Wow! This is worse than I thought. They really are going to drag this out beyond the SB or end up suspending TB and BB next Friday.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Holy shit, they are going full blown Zapruder!
 
Where was all this when a player punched the shit out of a woman? 
 

Bone Chips

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As expected... It was a well planned sting operation. And it sounds like the NFL may have been watching closely the whole game. My guess is that we will start seeing grainy videos of some ball boy reaching into a ball bag suspiciously. But my other guess is that they don't have a smoking gun, or they would have come out with it already. This is an attempt to scare people into talking.