I don't. I'm speculatingpappymojo said:
How do you know that JJ gave a shit?
I don't. I'm speculatingpappymojo said:
How do you know that JJ gave a shit?
Brady took a picture with BB's toothbrush up his butt.kartvelo said:Or,... one of a million other possibilities. Exactly.
rodderick said:
Sure, and no ref ever noticed it. It's one thing to play with footballs a little underinflated, since it isn't obvious there's something wrong with them, but a scrubbed, broken in ball would surely catch the attention of opponents and refs alike during a game.
McNally‟s responsibilities with the Patriots previously came under review by the NFL in connection with an incident involving game balls in 2004. According to a letter dated November 2, 2004, from then-NFL Director of Game Operations Peter Hadhazy and a memorandum dated October 25, 2004, from Richard Farley, the NFL Security Representative assigned to New England, that incident involved Patriots ball boys relaying supposed “approved” game balls that actually were non-approved practice balls to a game official during an October 25, 2004 regular season game.
Doctor G said:the needle goes in the gauge gives a reading and you push a button to lower the reading.https://www.google.com/search?q=football+pressure+gauge&rlz=1C1CHMD_enUS394&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&imgil=sxEN69hOV9gwbM%253A%253BCr0Qf0MzxOWcFM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.greenbowsports.co.uk%25252Ffootball-ball-pressure-gauge.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sxEN69hOV9gwbM%253A%252CCr0Qf0MzxOWcFM%252C_&usg=__jhEdZ5YrRQgKKHOBnJiiz3uawIQ%3D&biw=800&bih=457&ved=0CDsQyjc&ei=cWtSVZuzDs7isATkqoHgDQ#imgrc=KRq_moib3l3BRM%253A%3Bi5rNjJdhIvbygM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Flintvwood.files.wordpress.com%252F2015%252F01%252Fdefalted-footballs-ap-012215.jpg%253Fw%253D650%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwoodtv.com%252F2015%252F01%252F23%252Fnfl-says-no-conclusion-yet-on-pats-deflated-footballs%252F%3B650%3B370
it is important to remember that the video showing McNally going in the bathroom was provided to the league by the Patriots.If they were so interested in obstructing the investigation why did they provide what is being characterized by the investigators as the key piece of evidence and something worthy of a demand for a physical description of the interior of the lavatory.
rodderick said:
Sure, and no ref ever noticed it. It's one thing to play with footballs a little underinflated, since it isn't obvious there's something wrong with them, but a scrubbed, broken in ball would surely catch the attention of opponents and refs alike during a game.
Given the leagues stumbling pursuit of evidence in the Ray Rice case, they might be trying to show what dogged pursuers of justice they actually are.Hoya81 said:
I think it was intended to be a trap/fishing expedition. If Brady's team omits any of the texts to Jastremski that they feel are irrelevant (the "How are you doing, JJ") to the PSI issue, but that Wells' team feel are relevant, then Brady is withholding evidence.
Furthermore, I thought there was a single bag of balls used by both teams back then.rodderick said:
Sure, and no ref ever noticed it. It's one thing to play with footballs a little underinflated, since it isn't obvious there's something wrong with them, but a scrubbed, broken in ball would surely catch the attention of opponents and refs alike during a game.
norm from cheers said:and more piling on...
"Feeley said on 97.5 The Fanatic that when he was playing for the Dolphins in 2004, he saw Patriots quarterback Tom Brady using old, broken-in balls at a time when NFL rules said that teams had to use new balls provided by the league."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/
. Gee, I wonder if it is theoretically possible that a NFL official might instruct a ballboy to introduce a non-approved ball into a game. Wild, I know.Hoya81 said:
There was a reference to that in the Wells report. Not in the Dolphins/Patriots game in Oct 2004, but the NYJ/Pats.
http://nesn.com/2015/05/wells-report-patriots-warned-in-2004-about-improper-footballs/
It's the one name that literally shakes the NFL offices at 345 Park Avenue right off its foundation.
Oh no, anybody but Jeffrey Kessler.
Tom Brady has got himself all lawyered up for the appeal of his four-game suspension by hiring Kessler, 61, a certified NFL nemesis and lifetime New Yorker, to represent him in his fight against the league. The sense is that Brady's four-game suspension will be reduced and potentially vacated.
Kessler, who works closely with the NFL Players Association, has been a pain in the butt to the league for decades, back to when he won the Freeman McNeil case which led to free agency in the NFL just over 20 years ago. He represented Ray Rice when he successfully got his indefinite suspension overturned last year and was deeply involved in the collective bargaining negotiations in 2006 and then the negotiations four years ago that led to a lockout. He represented Adrian Peterson, successfully getting him off the suspended list earlier this year.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/brady-hires-jeffrey-kessler-sense-ban-vacated-article-1.2220608?utm_content=bufferfe107&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter— Who hears the appeal? It will be Goodell or his designee. If Goodell selects a hearing officer, he must consult with DeMaurice Smith, the executive director of the NFL Players Association. It's a certainty Brady and Yee will push for an arbitrator who has no connection to the NFL. Last year, Barbara S. Jones, a former U.S. District Court judge, overturned Rice's indefinite suspension for domestic violence. In 2012, Tagliabue overturned many of Goodell's sanctions in the BountyGate case with the Saints. Goodell selected Jones and Tagliabue. It's a safe assumption their phones will not be ringing with an offer to hear the Brady case.
— Once Goodell receives notice of Brady's appeal, it must be heard within 10 days. Goodell will be in San Francisco for league meetings from Monday to Wednesday next week. That means the earliest the case will be heard is May 21 or May 22 — before the Memorial Day weekend — or at the latest May 26.
— When will Brady find out if he won the appeal? "As soon as practicable following the conclusion of the hearing, the hearing officer will render a written decision which will constitute full, final and complete disposition of the dispute and will be binding upon the player(s), Club(s) and the parties to this Agreement with respect to that dispute," according to the collective bargaining agreement.
norm from cheers said:and more piling on...
"Feeley said on 97.5 The Fanatic that when he was playing for the Dolphins in 2004, he saw Patriots quarterback Tom Brady using old, broken-in balls at a time when NFL rules said that teams had to use new balls provided by the league."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/
Bleedred said:Right up until he presents his "collections" report from the NFL for $5 million. So, by "taking shit" if you mean slaps on the back...then...yeah.
For the multitude of reasons that don't need to be restated here, whoever he hires has, shall we say in a lawyerly way, a lot to work with. To put it another way, paraphrasing Joe Pesci's character's assessment of Tony Dogs in the movie Casino, Goodell and the league are just begging to be made an example of. That said, Kessler has a proven track record of sticking it to the league and seems like a safe choice.theapportioner said:Any thoughts on Brady hiring Kessler?
yup, that is EXACTLY what I meant. Maybe they'll get him a 12 Pats jersey with the name "Wells" on the back.Bleedred said:Right up until he presents his "collections" report from the NFL for $5 million. So, by "taking shit" if you mean slaps on the back...then...yeah.
Once Goodell receives notice of Brady's appeal, it must be heard within 10 days. Goodell will be in San Francisco for league meetings from Monday to Wednesday next week. That means the earliest the case will be heard is May 21 or May 22 — before the Memorial Day weekend — or at the latest May 26.
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:I can't believe we're still talking about something as trivial as air pressure in a football... Is there any competitive advantage to playing with an under inflated/over inflated ball? Why is this all of a sudden a major infraction? Did anyone actually ever give a single shit about this until now?
It's the one name that literally shakes the NFL offices at 345 Park Avenue right off its foundation.
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 54s54 seconds ago
The union has drafted the Brady appeal letter, and it's going through their process. Likely to be filed tomorrow.
jsinger121 said:
Nah, John Elway isn't the one responsible for filing the appeal.tims4wins said:
My new conspiracy theory: NFL denies ever receiving appeal letter, denies appeal, makes Brady suspension stand
He might have routinely brought one in his pocket every Sunday. These things are smaller than a cellphone.( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
The assumption is that he was not using a gauge but just a needle. There were two gauges in the Refs room. If McNally took one with him to the field it would ahve been discovered when they went to get the gauges at halftime. He would have a lot less control using just a needle and little margin for error.
Or it wouldn't have caught their attention because no one has ever given even a fractional shit about the condition of game balls until halftime of the 2015 AFC Championship Game. That's what makes the Pats defense difficult--it is against the written rules, but has never been seen as a violation of the actual rules.rodderick said:
Sure, and no ref ever noticed it. It's one thing to play with footballs a little underinflated, since it isn't obvious there's something wrong with them, but a scrubbed, broken in ball would surely catch the attention of opponents and refs alike during a game.
Joe D Reid said:Or it wouldn't have caught their attention because no one has ever given even a fractional shit about the condition of game balls until halftime of the 2015 AFC Championship Game. That's what makes the Pats defense difficult--it is against the written rules, but has never been seen as a violation of the actual rules.
I'm surprised the Colts didn't ask to check the curve on every Bruins' stick while they were at it.
He has to be the Mort leak.tims4wins said:I would love to see Kensil's email / cell phone records regarding this whole thing. My random thought of the hour.
Joe D Reid said:Or it wouldn't have caught their attention because no one has ever given even a fractional shit about the condition of game balls until halftime of the 2015 AFC Championship Game. That's what makes the Pats defense difficult--it is against the written rules, but has never been seen as a violation of the actual rules.
I'm surprised the Colts didn't ask to check the curve on every Bruins' stick while they were at it.
nattysez said:Now that Wells has adamantly defended the report, this matter has become a dick-measuring contest between two very prominent law firms (Winston & Strawn v. Paul Weiss), in addition to the fact that the NFL will look completely amateurish if yet another suspension is determined to have been improperly levied. This ridiculousness over deflated balls is only going to get higher-profile as time goes on.
Which all, again, points out what a massively huge mistake it was by Goodell not to do a David Stern-style warning-and-sweeping-under-the-rug of this whole thing when it first reared its head.
Because of Goodell's initial (non) handling of the incident which allowed the whole thing to mushroom as every media outlet in the country threw their hot takez out there. Whether a sign of utter incompetence or supreme competence, Goodell has taken the NFL's version of the pine tar incident and, for the paltry sum of $5mm, used it to keep the league on the front pages nationwide leading up to the Super Bowl and throughout the offseason. The reason we're still talking about it is because despite our awareness that ESPN's content has become overwhelmingly valueless drivel, we haven't fully developed the ability to disregard it completely. Well, that and the draft picks.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:I can't believe we're still talking about something as trivial as air pressure in a football... Is there any competitive advantage to playing with an under inflated/over inflated ball? Why is this all of a sudden a major infraction? Did anyone actually ever give a single shit about this until now?
H78 said:Nah, John Elway isn't the one responsible for filing the appeal.
BigSoxFan said:No kidding. Stern skated right by on a major ref scandal and Goodell got tripped up by some deflated footballs. Really is remarkable.
BigSoxFan said:Under Stern, McNally would have been labeled as a "rogue" employee while the Pats would have been given a strong, private warning to cut the shit. He was a prick at times but he knew what was most important. Goodell, on the other hand, has a chip on his shoulder and has to show how tough he is at every possible moment. We all work with people like that and it's annoying as hell.
This is exactly my suspicion right now. I was afraid to ask publicly, but is it possible that Wells hired Exponent as part of a plan to justify a longer investigation? Do lawyers do this?Super Nomario said:I largely agree with this. Comparing the variance of a sample size of 11 versus that of a sample size of 4 is nonsense, especially when we know there's a time factor causing variance. They claim the data shows variance that would not be explained by time (such as ball 10 measuring much lower than ball 9), but without a valid control group it's hard to know how serious to take that.
I think there is a bias here, but a bias towards billable hours rather than against the Patriots. The idea that they can extrapolate with no clear starting points and a control group of just four doesn't hold up to statistical scrutiny, but you can't bill as many hours for labeling it as "inconclusive" as you can if you run 60 pages worth of tests resting on that shaky data foundation. I think the tests themselves were thorough and unbiased, but that doesn't make them valid or significant.
I doubt it. Not saying that lawyers don't do it, but in this case, Wells and PW obviously had the go ahead to bang out a nice seven-figure chunk of billables as they saw fit.EricFeczko said:This is exactly my suspicion right now. I was afraid to ask publicly, but is it possible that Wells hired Exponent as part of a plan to justify a longer investigation? Do lawyers do this?
EricFeczko said:This is exactly my suspicion right now. I was afraid to ask publicly, but is it possible that Wells hired Exponent as part of a plan to justify a longer investigation? Do lawyers do this?
This. Wells makes plenty of money (If I had to guess...$3-5 million a year). It's the nature of NY firms to bill the shit out of clients like this, particularly when they have a mandate from a multi-billion dollar client to do whatever is necessary on a particular matter. I'm guessing 20-40 PW lawyers touched this case underneath Wells. Wells has too many clients and his reputation is too important for him to try to squeeze another $100K or even $500K in billables. Goodell is such a fool, there's no doubt Wells will be called upon again...and soon. Wells would be killing one of his golden geese if he were to unreasonably inflate his billables. Shit, NY firms (Proskauer, skadden, PW, Winston and Strawn, Sullivan and cromwell) "regular" billables are so outlandish anyway, there would be no need.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
IANAL, but I'm not so sure about the bias toward billable hours hypothesis. I'm sure Ted Wells wasn't exactly cutting corners to wrap things up in an expeditious way and keep costs down. But it seems like the biggest priorities here for a firm like Paul Weiss and a lawyer like Wells are protecting the relationship with the client and making sure that the firm comes out of the process with its reputation enhanced. If billing an extra million was compatible with those big pictures objectives, sure why not. But its hard for me to imagine them jeopardizing those big picture objectives just for a very short-term (and, ultimately, fairly small in the big, big picture) financial gain.
norm from cheers said:and more piling on...
"Feeley said on 97.5 The Fanatic that when he was playing for the Dolphins in 2004, he saw Patriots quarterback Tom Brady using old, broken-in balls at a time when NFL rules said that teams had to use new balls provided by the league."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/
I love this post in the abstract but as Deadspin pointed out, where was Kraft when all these other teams were being abused by the Sheriff?jsinger121 said:It takes 24 of 32 votes to oust Goodell.
Looking at the list of owners here is the possible breakdown of where things could stand,
Ally for Kraft
Jerry Jones - Dallas Cowboys - Have beef with NFL over salary cap issues
Daniel Snyder - Washington Redskins - Have beef with NFL over salary cap issues
Jeffry Lurie - Philadelphia Eagles - Kraft homey and from MA and former Pats season ticket holder
Jerry Richardson - Carolina Panthers - Kraft and Blank along with him are on committee that determines Goodell's salary
Arthur Blank - Atlanta Falcons - Kraft and Richardson along with him are on committee that determines Goodell's salary
Possible ally for Kraft
Mara/Tisch - NY Giants
Mark Davis - Oakland Raiders - Kraft can buy his support in turn by supporting a possible relocation to LA
Alex Spanos - San Diego Chargers - Kraft can buy his support in turn by supporting a possible relocation to LA
Stan Kroenke - St. Louis Rams - Kraft can buy his support in turn by supporting a possible relocation to LA
Tom Benson - New Orleans Saints - Possible payback to the NFL for the bountygate scandal which cost them a season.
Would not be an ally for Kraft
Woody Johnson - NYJ
Jim Irsay - Indianapolis Colts
Others
This is where they will need his allies to come up big to convince others to join his support in ousting Goodell.
http://deadspin.com/the-patriots-war-against-the-nfl-has-spilled-online-1703915895Of course Kraft, one of Goodell’s strongest allies, could have smothered this in the crib years ago. Starting from Spygate, Goodell has been allowed to wield disciplinary powers like his big swinging dick, with only the ineffectual NFLPA opposing his arbitrary and publicity-driven punishments. And not one owner has publicly stood up for another. Not when Tom Benson lost coaches, players, money, and draft picks for a ginned up bounty scandal. Not when Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder were docked $46 million in cap space for spending “too much” in a year without a salary cap. Those were apparently acceptable to Kraft—or not worth weakening the commissioner—because they didn’t concern him. (“First they came for the Saints, and I did not speak out...”) Now the chickens are roosting, and they’re here for Tom Brady, and only now does Kraft apparently see a problem with having empowered the commissioner to be judge, jury, and executioner.
Why do you assume the cost of this will not be covered by the NFLPA?DegenerateSoxFan said:I wonder how much Brady will end up shelling out to Winston & Strawn. He's a wealthy guy, but I have to think it's not pocket change to him like it is for the league. I never had the opportunity (or the curse, as some folks I know would probably describe it) to do the NYC/DC biglaw thing, but I'm curious to hear from some of the guys here who have as to what they think it will run Tom. Obviously, he's going unleash the hounds, but he can't be too happy about having to do it.
DegenerateSoxFan said:I wonder how much Brady will end up shelling out to Winston & Strawn. He's a wealthy guy, but I have to think it's not pocket change to him like it is for the league. I never had the opportunity (or the curse, as some folks I know would probably describe it) to do the NYC/DC biglaw thing, but I'm curious to hear from some of the guys here who have as to what they think it will run Tom. Obviously, he's going unleash the hounds, but he can't be too happy about having to do it.
Hoya81 said:
An underinflated ball is theoretically easier to handle (catch, carry) in rain/snow games. The downside (also theoretical) is that the ball, being less firm, can't be thrown as hard or as deep and is possibly more vulnerable to wind.