EPL Week 10 (5/19ths through the season)

[teddykgb]

Mason just really not showing a lot of honor (I guess that's the word) instigating that and then running to the ref for the card while Lamela does the same. I think Benteke earns his red because you don't go at someone's face but that's just a lot of poor sportsmanship on both sides

 

[blueguitar322]

I also thought it was a deserved red, and pretty clearly a red by the book.  Once refs allow any gray area regarding using your hands to push/shove/slap the opponent's face, the refs risk losing all control of a game.  Contact to the face feels much more threatening than a shove to the chest.

 

[sachmoney]

Because of Benteke's sending off and subsequent ban, Villa isn't going to score for another three games, right?

 

[URI]

Mason just really not showing a lot of honor (I guess that's the word) instigating that and then running to the ref for the card while Lamela does the same. I think Benteke earns his red because you don't go at someone's face but that's just a lot of poor sportsmanship on both sides

 
I agree with this 100%

 

[Apisith]

Don't think that's a red at all. There's no rule in football about contact to the face. It was a push because Mason got in his face. If you're going to send Benteke off then Mason has to go too.

 

[DJnVa]

Eh, hands to an opponent face is pretty much always going to be a red.
 
 
Also, Harry Kane is a god.

 

[URI]

Don't think that's a red at all. There's no rule in football about contact to the face. It was a push because Mason got in his face. If you're going to send Benteke off then Mason has to go too.

 
Then lets see when he appeals what the Premier League says.  Mason, who I said should have gotten a yellow, didn't put hands to someone's face.
 
Drogba was sent off in a Champions League final shoving someone in the face.

 

[Apisith]

 
Then lets see when he appeals what the Premier League says.  Mason, who I said should have gotten a yellow, didn't put hands to someone's face.
 
Drogba was sent off in a Champions League final shoving someone in the face.

The FA don't really overturn referee decisions as a general rule, I feel.

I don't think that's a good criteria of whether it was the right decision or not. There's been many times a decision was egregiously wrong and the FA still didn't overturn it.

I could point to many other times a hand has been put to the face that didn't result in a red. Let's see where it is in the rule book.

I thought Mason played it well and the referee fell for it.

 

[veritas]

Then lets see when he appeals what the Premier League says.  Mason, who I said should have gotten a yellow, didn't put hands to someone's face.
 
Drogba was sent off in a Champions League final shoving someone in the face.

I think they both should have been yellow or both been red. Mason shoved him in the face with his face, I don't see how the defensive push from Benteke is more egregious.

 

[URI]

The FA don't really overturn referee decisions as a general rule, I feel.

I don't think that's a good criteria of whether it was the right decision or not. There's been many times a decision was egregiously wrong and the FA still didn't overturn it.

I could point to many other times a hand has been put to the face that didn't result in a red. Let's see where it is in the rule book.

I thought Mason played it well and the referee fell for it.

 
The Premier League does it all the time.  Just last year, Spurs got 4 red cards.  Three of them were overturned on appeal.
 
Shoving someone in the face is almost always a red.  Ie Drogba.

 

[DJnVa]

The FA don't really overturn referee decisions as a general rule, I feel.

I don't think that's a good criteria of whether it was the right decision or not. There's been many times a decision was egregiously wrong and the FA still didn't overturn it.

I could point to many other times a hand has been put to the face that didn't result in a red. Let's see where it is in the rule book.

I thought Mason played it well and the referee fell for it.

 
 
So why were the announcers making a big deal of the whole "letter of the law" thing and how the ref could be disciplined if he didn't red card someone that put hands in someone's face?

 

[Apisith]

 
 
So why were the announcers making a big deal of the whole "letter of the law" thing and how the ref could be disciplined if he didn't red card someone that put hands in someone's face?

I don't know?

Like to see where it is in the rule book, though.

 

[URI]

I think they both should have been yellow or both been red. Mason shoved him in the face with his face, I don't see how the defensive push from Benteke is more egregious.

 
If Mason headbutted Benteke (which is what you describe), then yes, he should have gotten a red card.
 
But that's not what happened, so he didn't.  He pushed Benteke twice with his shoulder, should have gotten a yellow (Lamela should have too).  But the ref didn't for whatever reason.  That doesn't change the fact that Christian Benteke lost his cool, put his hand on Mason's face, and shoved him.
 
Benteke's red was just, even if Mason's lack of yellow isn't.

 

[URI]

I don't know?

Like to see where it is in the rule book, though.

 
It was violent contact.  I'm not your research assistant.

 

[Apisith]

Violent conduct is the rule that he was sent off under, yes. But there's nothing specific written about hands to the face. It isn't 'automatic' in the same way as taking out the last man is an automatic red card.

Benteke pushed Mason because he got in his face. What is Benteke supposed to do? Back away? Seems unreasonable. He pushed him away from his face after Mason instigated it. I just feel like both are equally to blame.

 

[DJnVa]

I don't know?

Like to see where it is in the rule book, though.

 
This isn't football. Every foul isn't spelled out like that. It comes under Law 12, Fouls and Misconduct. And apparently it's well-established that hands to face is going to be a red.
 
It's like you're arguing that a "two footed challenge with spikes up" isn't specifically spelled out in the rules, so why is it a card.

 

[URI]

Benteke pushed Mason because he got in his face. What is Benteke supposed to do? Back away? Seems unreasonable. He pushed him away from his face after Mason instigated it. I just feel like both are equally to blame.

 
Yes?  Not escalate the situation by shoving him in the face?  
 
It's unreasonable to you, but you're frequently fairly unreasonable in this forum.  Benteke pushed Mason in the face after Mason twice shouldered him off.  Mason instigated it, should have gotten a yellow, but Benteke escalated it.  That's why he got red.  If Benteke walked away, or pushed him away in the chest, he stays on.

 

[Apisith]

I don't really see it as escalation at all because he didn't punch him. It wasn't an aggressive push meant to be more, it was more a 'get out of my face' push.

Anyway, accepting your definition of escalation, why is instigation a lesser crime than escalation?

What's the difference between pushing someone in the chest and the face?

I'm not trying to be a dick or trolling, I'm just curious.

There's nothing specific in the laws about this, it's always subjective to the referee and the context. I've seen plenty of pushes in the face that has resulted in yellow cards being given.

A quick glance at twitter shows a pretty even split between people who feel it's a sending off and people who feel it's not. I'm not saying twitter is a good judge but I think it shows that there isn't really any consensus on this, which is why I thought the sending off was unfair.

Just my opinion, man. We're not competing with you or Villa, so I have no dog in this fight.

 

[URI]

Because there is a difference between shoving someone in the face and the chest.
 
Just as an experiment, shove someone in the chest sometime.  Then shove them in the face.  You'll get a more violent reaction to the person you shoved in the face.
 
There was more violence in Benteke's act than Mason's.  Mason twice used his shoulder to body Benteke.  Benteke used his hand to shove Mason in the face.

 

[Apisith]

I clearly see Mason pushing his head into Benteke's head. I don't see this shoulder thing as you described it.

https://vine.co/v/OOXUvWq67EO

Mason shoulders Benteke, then pushes his head into Benteke's when he turns around, then Benteke pushes his face away then Mason starts crying to the ref.

Meh. Yellow for both and get on with it. Or red for both if the game is overheating.

 

[JayMags71]

Mason "Pushing his head" into Benteke's as he did is not violent conduct. A hand shoving someone's face is not. It's really that simple.