Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

[teddykgb]

Felger singing that chick song all week last week more than made up for their trite Red Sox commentary. I really find it hard to believe people were switching back to a Butch Stearns big show. At this point, if they're talking sox, I just wait for Gaspar to come in for his weekly hour and at least attempt to counter the points. Ultimately, they just agree with each other too much as far as the red sox front office maneuverings go, which makes it not very interesting radio, and if you take the pulse of the common boston fan, I don't think many of them feel all that differently either, so it's not like the callers are particularly thought provoking on the matter or able to capably challenge them. On both stations, half the calls are still "hey, that gonzalez guy is good, do you think we're going to get him?" style calls

 

[Phenom]

Felger singing that chick song all week last week more than made up for their trite Red Sox commentary. I really find it hard to believe people were switching back to a Butch Stearns big show. At this point, if they're talking sox, I just wait for Gaspar to come in for his weekly hour and at least attempt to counter the points. Ultimately, they just agree with each other too much as far as the red sox front office maneuverings go, which makes it not very interesting radio, and if you take the pulse of the common boston fan, I don't think many of them feel all that differently either, so it's not like the callers are particularly thought provoking on the matter or able to capably challenge them. On both stations, half the calls are still "hey, that gonzalez guy is good, do you think we're going to get him?" style calls

And that's the reason why I still go to 98.5 at 2:00 everyday. I don't intend to switch to "The Big Show." But the humor of Felger singing chick songs on his pink ipod quickly fades when Mazz goes into a 10 minute rant on how the Red Sox failed to support the 2006 team and failed to sign Teixeira!!!!!!!!!

 

[McSweeny]

Felger on vacation for the week. Mazz starts off the show by going right at the Red Sox for being "cheap". Calls it appalling. Should be some great radio.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

Here is why the show has sucked lately...they've been on the air for literally 10 minutes (Felger is off today) and Mazz has stated:

1. The Red Sox are boring
2. They are in real trouble and will be out of it if they have a bad road trip (probably true)
3. They are cheap

Same shit different day. Great job Tony. I'm waiting for the Teixeira comment to come along any second.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

Same shit different day. Great job Tony. I'm waiting for the Teixeira comment to come along any second.

It's quickly becoming the seminal moment of his radio career.

 

[Puffy]

Felger on vacation for the week. Mazz starts off the show by going right at the Red Sox for being "cheap". Calls it appalling. Should be some great radio.

Right on cue. I was really excited about these guys when they started. The Red Sox season has exposed many of their weaknesses.

Another thing about him that has been driving me nuts is how he throws around exaggerated words like "appalling" in reference to the most banal topics, like the Red Sox payroll. "Cheap" is absurd, since they have their highest payroll ever and spent the offseason paying out several big free agent contracts, particularly the best available free agent pitcher.

What the fuck does he want them to do? If he had some realistic ideas once in a while, I could give him a pass. His entire commentary is superficial and ignorant.

I'm not listening now, but I predict he spends the next 15 minutes explaining in minute, stuttering detail what "bridge year" means, concluding that Theo somehow knew going into it that they were a long shot this year, and the injuries confirmed that they were not going to be able to make a stretch run. Theo will use the injury excuse to stand pat, betraying the clubhouse and fans, by telling the truth that the best way to improve the team is to get the injured players back from the DL.

I don't get paid to think about baseball, but I pay attention. From the information I have access to, it is clear that there is very little out there available on the trade market that would be worth the cost, except perhaps a lefty reliever. I assume Mazz has insider knowledge, so when he rails at the "appalling" front office, it would be nice if he could share with us the available deals out there that we don't know about that Theo is ignoring.

 

[Phenom]

Right on cue. I was really excited about these guys when they started. The Red Sox season has exposed many of their weaknesses.

Another thing about him that has been driving me nuts is how he throws around exaggerated words like "appalling" in reference to the most banal topics, like the Red Sox payroll. "Cheap" is absurd, since they have their highest payroll ever and spent the offseason paying out several big free agent contracts, particularly the best available free agent pitcher.

What the fuck does he want them to do? If he had some realistic ideas once in a while, I could give him a pass. His entire commentary is superficial and ignorant.

I'm not listening now, but I predict he spends the next 15 minutes explaining in minute, stuttering detail what "bridge year" means, concluding that Theo somehow knew going into it that they were a long shot this year, and the injuries confirmed that they were not going to be able to make a stretch run. Theo will use the injury excuse to stand pat, betraying the clubhouse and fans, by telling the truth that the best way to improve the team is to get the injured players back from the DL.

I don't get paid to think about baseball, but I pay attention. From the information I have access to, it is clear that there is very little out there available on the trade market that would be worth the cost, except perhaps a lefty reliever. I assume Mazz has insider knowledge, so when he rails at the "appalling" front office, it would be nice if he could share with us the available deals out there that we don't know about that Theo is ignoring.

It's been said before...when Felger is out, this show is borderline brutal.

Chad Finn keeps hinting that a "major" EEI personality's contract is up and is seriously thinking about jumping to 98.5 We know it's not Dennis, Callahan, or Ordway. I'm assuming he's talking about Michael Holley. I think we've discussed this briefly before too, but how great would a Holley/Felger tandem be? That would be hands-down the best sports talk team on radio.

I actually think Holley has always been better suited for FM. It "fits" him more than doing middays on AM with Dale.

 

[dcmissle]

Part of me would like to see it because Holley would eat Felger alive. Not because he's a homer, but because he knows the difference between a good argument and a bad one and would call bullshit on the drivel being peddled on this show.

The RS "cheap". Is this satire? Actually, for about 28 major league cities, it's a sick joke.

The shame of it is that Mazz knows better, Felger knows better, but they are taking the low road for ratings. There is low hanging fruit if you want to criticize intelligently the local franchises, but if it doesn't funnel into preset, red-meat story lines -- Henry and Kraft are cheap, Theo and Belichick arrogant, Moss a radioactive ass -- the fruit falls to the ground and rots. Very cynical and contemptuous of the audience they pretend to serve.

Ultimately that's why I don't want Dale and Holley broken up. They have their faults to be sure, but they are the lonely voices of integrity in the entire market.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Part of me would like to see it because Holley would eat Felger alive. Not because he's a homer, but because he knows the difference between a good argument and a bad one and would call bullshit on the drivel being peddled on this show.

The RS "cheap". Is this satire? Actually, for about 28 major league cities, it's a sick joke.

The shame of it is that Mazz knows better, Felger knows better, but they are taking the low road for ratings. There is low hanging fruit if you want to criticize intelligently the local franchises, but if it doesn't funnel into preset, red-meat story lines -- Henry and Kraft are cheap, Theo and Belichick arrogant, Moss a radioactive ass -- the fruit falls to the ground and rots. Very cynical and contemptuous of the audience they pretend to serve.

Ultimately that's why I don't want Dale and Holley broken up. They have their faults to be sure, but they are the lonely voices of integrity in the entire market.

Man, that is a perfect summation. I get that it's entertainment, and that, even in a best case scenario, it's not going to approach substantive discussion such as what (mostly) goes on here. But is an absolutel lowest common denominator, pro-wrestling villain, clown-show style of talk radio really the only thing that will draw ratings in this market?? Because that(other than D&H) is all we get. Throw in that fact that tired, utterly played out old hacks like Shank and Borges still have a forum on these shows and stations, and the boston fan who might some lively, smart, and entertaining coverage, beyond just watching the games, is really left out in the cold.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

It's been said before...when Felger is out, this show is borderline brutal.

Chad Finn keeps hinting that a "major" EEI personality's contract is up and is seriously thinking about jumping to 98.5 We know it's not Dennis, Callahan, or Ordway. I'm assuming he's talking about Michael Holley. I think we've discussed this briefly before too, but how great would a Holley/Felger tandem be? That would be hands-down the best sports talk team on radio.

I actually think Holley has always been better suited for FM. It "fits" him more than doing middays on AM with Dale.

I'm with you Phenom. I think it would a tremendous duo. If it is Holley who Finn is aluding to, Holley has to be interested in 98.5, right? By most people's opinions, he's entertaining and bright and that talent is largely being wasted at EEI. He is basically 3rd String over there since broadcasters covet being the morning man or the afternoon drive guy. That's where the money and recognition is - and D&C and Ordway aren't going anywhere soon. He HAS to be interested if they can give him a better time slot with equal (or close to it) pay. I'm sure anybody would be nervouse leaving a Boston media institution like EEI, but 98.5 is a CBS company that looks likes it's here to stay. I'm hoping it happens.

 

[Haunted]

Felger on vacation for the week. Mazz starts off the show by going right at the Red Sox for being "cheap". Calls it appalling. Should be some great radio.

What makes this even more frustrating is the fact that Tony keeps trumpeting that their payroll is $170 million. In which universe is spending $170 million cheap?

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

I'm with you Phenom. I think it would a tremendous duo. If it is Holley who Finn is aluding to, Holley has to be interested in 98.5, right? By most people's opinions, he's entertaining and bright and that talent is largely being wasted at EEI. He is basically 3rd String over there since broadcasters covet being the morning man or the afternoon drive guy. That's where the money and recognition is - and D&C and Ordway aren't going anywhere soon. He HAS to be interested if they can give him a better time slot with equal (or close to it) pay. I'm sure anybody would be nervouse leaving a Boston media institution like EEI, but 98.5 is a CBS company that looks likes it's here to stay. I'm hoping it happens.

While I agree with some of the criticism here about Mazz (those doing the impressions were hilarious and spot on) for the love of god don't bring Holly here. Holly, on a daily basis, commits the worst crime anyone in the entertainment business can ever commit.........he's boring. His next opinion will be his first. He RUNS from controversial topics. For the most part he's pom pom waver for the teams and its players. He's worst interviewer I have ever seen in my life.

I agree Mazz is terrible without Felger. But he actually has an opinion, has a decent rapport with Felger and seems to have at least some semblence of a sense of humor. I don't give a shit if he's replaced, but you better do better than Micheal Fucking Holly.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

While I agree with some of the criticism here about Mazz (those doing the impressions were hilarious and spot on) for the love of god don't bring Holly here. Holly, on a daily basis, commits the worst crime anyone in the entertainment business can ever commit.........he's boring. His next opinion will be his first. He RUNS from controversial topics. For the most part he's pom pom waver for the teams and its players. He's worst interviewer I have ever seen in my life.

I agree Mazz is terrible without Felger. But he actually has an opinion, has a decent rapport with Felger and seems to have at least some semblence of a sense of humor. I don't give a shit if he's replaced, but you better do better than Micheal Fucking Holly.

With all due respect Rocco, I totally disagree with you on Michael Fucking Holley. I think his EEI show does drag at times, but I attribute that more to Arnold. And I find Holley very opinionated, sometimes too much. As far as his fanboyism, you're right, but that would work well with Felger and his contrarian beliefs. I distinctly remember them co-hosting together at EEI a few years ago when Dale was on vacation and thinking how well they worked (and argued) together.

And Mazz does have opinions...but they're usually the exact same as Felger. There are times when I think Mazz is actually sitting on Felger's lap while Mike controls his mouth and has his hand up Tony's ass.

 

[AquaNarc]

I can't agree with the pro-Michael Holley comments upthread. He is the king of taking a certain side in an argument whether he believes it or not. He got his act from those awful talking head TV shows he used to be on. Slightly more knowledgeable than the rest but a pretty big fraud, and I don't think he's entertaining/funny in the least.

Also, I've tuned in for about 5 minutes total this week. Reminds me of when Felger used to have Bob Halloran on 890, that was an instant cue to find something else to do.

 

[jk333]

.........he's boring. His next opinion will be his first. He RUNS from controversial topics. For the most part he's pom pom waver for the teams and its players. He's worst interviewer I have ever seen in my life.

I like Holley but even if you don't, wouldn't you agree that Felger covers all of the above points in spades? Holley offers a different opinion to Felger's and they seem to have chemistry when both are on Comcast together.

Mazz is annoying for a few reasons but the biggest is that he's Felger's yes man. I'd rather hear someone who's "boring" like Holley but can have a discussion rather than listen to Mazz say "Amen" after Felger gives his latest (admittedly entertaining) rant. 98.5 could probably save some money and by a parakeet for Mazz's position on the afternoon show.

 

[Gambler7]

I literally just turned it on to this..."this notion that relievers are not worth it because you dont know from year to year with them is crazy, we have to let this go...there are guys out there that are very consistent, elite guys, maybe there aren't any available I don't know, or maybe the red sox just dont' want to pay for it, that's what bothers me..."

Are you kidding Tony?? This same talking point has yet to end...how about you find out if any are available, or listen to any baseball expert who has said this is the worst market for relievers, maybe ever. It amazes me he is still on this.

 

[AquaNarc]

This was even better: Within the span of 10 minutes, he criticizes Theo for overvaluing or holding on too tightly to "his guys", and then criticizes him for falling in love with other teams' guys and magnifying the warts of " his guys".

 

[jk333]

Are you kidding Tony?? This same talking point has yet to end...how about you find out if any are available, or listen to any baseball expert who has said this is the worst market for relievers, maybe ever. It amazes me he is still on this.

Mazz repeats the same point, over and over. Worse yet his points don't make sense. The Red Sox went into the season with Okajima, Delcarmen, Papelbon, Bard and even Ramirez ready to pitch - there are very few teams that had better options on paper. That's what happens bullpen's though, sometimes you get lucky, other times pitchers have down years. Even when you acquire the "best possible" reliever such as Gagne, the reliever may still perform like, ahem, Gagne.

His other major talking point is even more infuriating; a few weeks ago when the team was winning he noted that the offense was producing but earlier in the year and lately he's been back to:

1. The Sox are cheap
2. They should have signed Teixeira
3. If they weren't so cheap, the team would/could be a "Championship Contender"

All of the above points focus on the fact that he wanted a bat, either Tex or Bay. He ignores the fact that Tex would (thus far in 2010) have given WORSE production for the Sox; his OPS is 825 while the Sox 1b/3B sport OPS's of 975 and 925 and their DH is at 900; the Sox also have the most runs in the league. They have not been cheap with their highest payroll ever, 170 million.

Mazz will criticize you for not signing Lackey to a 5/80M deal as a "large market team"... "its just money," he will refrain, but will then ask why there isn't money left over for more bullpen help.

 

[Puffy]

Direct quote:

Which leads me to the question of: what is Theo Epstein waiting for? This bullpen issue has been ongoing for two months - more than that since, really, since the start of the year. They have had two reliable relievers all year long - and one of them, Papelbon, isn't quite the level we're accustomed to seeing but - still - all things considered the closer is not a problem on this team. Bard has been good. Everyone else has stunk - uh, at some point or another - or certainly in positions or uh situations of - as Francona likes to say - responsibility or circumsta- con - significant situations. And so I look at it and say "you're telling me that, I don't..." - to me, the Red Sox needed to force the issue here a little bit on a relief pitcher and try to get - I don't know, maybe they've tried, but I don't get the sense that they're in any sort of urgent uh - they're in - they have any sort of urgency about getting anybody here at all before July 31, whether it be for luxury tax purposes or whatever else.

 

[judyb]

He seems quite certain that the Red Sox could have had Octavio Dotel (or someone like that) long ago if only they'd been willing to trade Josh Reddick (or someone like that). And the hockey guy on the show with him keeps agreeing with him, saying a little bullpen help couldn't cost much, like he'd have any clue.

 

[Puffy]

He seems quite certain that the Red Sox could have had Octavio Dotel (or someone like that) long ago if only they'd been willing to trade Josh Reddick (or someone like that). And the hockey guy on the show with him keeps agreeing with him, saying a little bullpen help couldn't cost much, like he'd have any clue.

Yeah, exactly. Mazz is right. Why not just take a flyer on Dotel if all it would cost is Reddick? Theo's so cheap.

 

[judyb]

And Mazz finally notices the Red Sox are not good at preventing runs.

 

[AquaNarc]

Tuned in for 10 minutes. More fraudulence from Tony. Killing them for having poor "run prevention". What he fails to mention is that he, and the rest of the media, thought the run prevention would be great, the narrative was that they would struggle to score runs. It's a fair criticism, but you can't say this in an "I told you so" tone, because it's the exact opposite of what you said would happen. And of course the run prevention wouldn't be nearly as bad with Ellsbury, a healthy Cameron, and Beckett. Oh, and Beltre's defense is terrible because of the errors. And they should have addressed the bullpen in the offseason. If Tony was a GM, he would be Ed Wade.

 

[jk333]

I'll give Tony credit, his critiques of the team today at least made sense. They've given up too many runs and the bullpen has underperformed.

 

[soxfan121]

I wanted to call in to talk to Mazz about his Jason Bay fixation. I really wanted to ask him if he thought Bay would have been within 50 feet of Beltre when he wiped out Ellsbury on April 9. Because he wouldn't. So, add Bay to the lineup, as well as Ellsbury. Subtract Lackey - which is what Mazz said "Had they signed Bay, they wouldn't have signed Lackey."

Tell me who pitched those hypothetical innings - Doubront? Bowden? Because Pedroia, Martinez, Beckett & Buchholz are all still on the DL and adding Bay (& Ellsbury, since he would have been playing CF in Tony's fantasy land) to the highest scoring team in the first half was going to do WHAT, exactly?

It was an infuriating segment of radio. Lackey has not been good - but he's been on the mound. His innings would have been absorbed by Tim Wakefield, Doubront, Bowden and whatever scrap heap guy that would have "surprisingly" made the team out of ST when Daisuke was on the DL. That would have all been a run a game or worse than what Lackey has done, especially considering the bullpen problems would have been worse with more work...ARGH!

Then, later in the show Tony says "This is where the Red Sox offseason plan has really worked..." while discussing the starting rotation.

 

[Seels]

Listening to Mazz more and more, I don't understand what he brings to the table. I'll freely admit I've never been a Mazz fan, the only Boston media guys that get to me more are D&C and CHB.

Today on The Baseball Reporters he's talking about the Lee / Halladay / Oswalt thing with the Phillies, and he said that the Phillies needed to trade Lee to get Halladay. Tony, cmon dude, this is your full time job. This isn't hard. The Lee trade occured after Halladay, so how could that possibly be?

Outside of baseball he has no idea what he's talking about, especially when it comes to football. He might be the worst guy to give his opinion on football in the area, even worse than Dennis Johnson. I could tolerate this if at least he knew the sport well that he carried a Hall of Fame vote for, but he repeatedly shows this just isn't the case. The Lee example is just one of many that occur on a daily basis.

Oh my God. Cassel in 08 played better than Brady in 09? This guy is a complete fucking idiot.

 

[Gambler7]

Mazz is brutal hosting a show. Just rambles and rambles, you can just feel him trying to act differently and be more assertive. It's just not him, not a good role for him.

 

[Phenom]

Mazz is brutal hosting a show. Just rambles and rambles, you can just feel him trying to act differently and be more assertive. It's just not him, not a good role for him.

This is a disaster for "The Sports Hub."

I can honestly tell you that from August-June, I never flipped to WEEI at 2:00. I always went from "Dale and Holley" directly to "Felger and Mazz." Maybe every once in a while I would flip over to "The Big Show" if McAdam or somebody was on, but I can count those times on one hand.

But over the past few weeks, I've listened to "The Big Show" more and more. Last week when Felger was out I almost exclusively listened to "The Big Show," and today with Neumie and Merloni on, my dial hasn't moved from 850.

The point is, I'm in the habit of listening to "The Big Show" a little bit now. I'm sure when Felger comes back, I'll go right back, but maybe if a segment lags, I'll turn the dial to WEEI. I never even thought of doing that before, I was such a fan of the show.

And I know I'm not alone. Mazz and Adam Jones on afternoon drive is not radio fit for the Boston market.

 

[PBDWake]

Heard this on the way home from Maz (Paraphrasing)...

"I think that if the Red Sox sign Werth for anything reasonably close to what they could have signed Jason Bay for, it's a mistake, and you should have just kept Bay. Werth is going to be admittedly cheaper, but I think Bay is clearly the better player"

Really? From 2007 on, Jayson Werth's wOBA has been consistently in the .380s, whereas Bay's gone .326, .387, .397, and .337. Bay's WAR has only eclipsed Werth's once, in 2009, when Bay had a 5.0 to Werth's 4.8. Otherwise, it hasn't really been close there. -.7, 2.9, the 5.0, and 1.3 this year for Bay, while Werth comes in at 3.2, 5.0, 4.9, and 2.7. So at best, I'd say Bay is an inconsistent, but possibly comparable player to Werth. You could easily say Werth is better, he's also younger, and plays better defense. So tell me again why you'd rather pay Bay more money then him, Maz?

 

[Harry Hooper]

Mazz was going on an on about Brady again today...click.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I am as big of a Mazz supporter as there is on this board, but during the last three months he's really taken a step backwards in my opinion.

He's hung up on Bay for some reason, despite the dreadful numbers that he's posting in New York. He won't let go of the Teixeira thing and he's just absolutely brutal by himself or with Jones. And his smug, no-it-all demeanor is not doing him any favors at all.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

I am as big of a Mazz supporter as there is on this board, but during the last three months he's really taken a step backwards in my opinion.

He's hung up on Bay for some reason, despite the dreadful numbers that he's posting in New York. He won't let go of the Teixeira thing and he's just absolutely brutal by himself or with Jones. And his smug, no-it-all demeanor is not doing him any favors at all.

With the summer vacations you see how crucial Felger is to his show and how much of a hindrance Ordway can be to his. Mazz has gone on walkabout while even Butch freaking Stearns is putting out good radio on the Big Show.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

With the summer vacations you see how crucial Felger is to his show and how much of a hindrance Ordway can be to his. Mazz has gone on walkabout while even Butch freaking Stearns is putting out good radio on the Big Show.

Correctamundo. Shocking that TSH would parrot the laziness of 'EEI during the summer, the one time when they could pound ass on them. In a good way.

And I completely agree with what JMOH said. I've always liked Mazz but he has been awful this summer.

 

[AquaNarc]

Heard this on the way home from Maz (Paraphrasing)...

"I think that if the Red Sox sign Werth for anything reasonably close to what they could have signed Jason Bay for, it's a mistake, and you should have just kept Bay. Werth is going to be admittedly cheaper, but I think Bay is clearly the better player"

Really? From 2007 on, Jayson Werth's wOBA has been consistently in the .380s, whereas Bay's gone .326, .387, .397, and .337. Bay's WAR has only eclipsed Werth's once, in 2009, when Bay had a 5.0 to Werth's 4.8. Otherwise, it hasn't really been close there. -.7, 2.9, the 5.0, and 1.3 this year for Bay, while Werth comes in at 3.2, 5.0, 4.9, and 2.7. So at best, I'd say Bay is an inconsistent, but possibly comparable player to Werth. You could easily say Werth is better, he's also younger, and plays better defense. So tell me again why you'd rather pay Bay more money then him, Maz?

If you've been listening to Mazz recently, he is living in 2001 in terms of valuing players (granted, most of the media here is living in 1975). It's funny you mention wOBA, because Mazz has apparently fallen in love with OPS (I guess their interview with Theo was a wake up call), yet he clearly thinks slug is far more important than OBP. I didn't hear this particular discussion, but I'm for Mazz, Werth has only hit 30 home runs once, Bay is a "slugger". Also, he has absolutely no concept of defensive value (Ichiro is "wildly overrated/overpaid", Pedroia didn't deserve the MVP in 08 etc) aside from acknowledging that some p[layers have good defensive reputations. In 5 years he'll be killing the Red Sox for not having enough plus defenders while they attack the newest inefficiency.

 

[Phenom]

"It looks like the Red Sox have given up on the season. They gave up on the team in 2006. The Yankees traded for Bobby Abreu. Abreu crushed the Red Sox in that August series in Fenway, because the Red Sox didn't have a left-hander to get him out. The mentality has always been this was a bridge year. It's exactly what Seth Mnookin said in Feeding the Monster, you're not going to build an "uber-team" every year. That's been a fundamental disagreement between the baseball ops people and Larry Lucchino. That's how Theo Epstein built the team this year. They're not going to go for it, like they talked about in Feeding the Monster. The ratings are down, and interest is down. SOME PEOPLE have been talking about that for years, but it's HAPPENING NOW. The Red Sox don't have stars, the fan doesn't care about the team. It's like 2006. In 2006, the Red Sox didn't make a move at the deadline while the Yankees traded for Abreu. The Yankees traded for Berkman and Kerry Wood. The Red Sox did not trade for anybody, they have abandoned this team, because they always labeled it to be a bridge year. That's what the feeling entering 2006 was. They didn't sign Jason Bay, telling him he needed surgery when he didn't need it. The Red Sox missed out on Mark Teixeira. Missing out on Teixeira was a seminal move in franchise history." - Tony Mazz on Monday.

Is there any doubt?

(Some of those points may be valid...but still, is there really any doubt he won't hit on that word-for-word)?

 

[dcmissle]

"It looks like the Red Sox have given up on the season. They gave up on the team in 2006. The Yankees traded for Bobby Abreu. Abreu crushed the Red Sox in that August series in Fenway, because the Red Sox didn't have a left-hander to get him out. The mentality has always been this was a bridge year. It's exactly what Seth Mnookin said in Feeding the Monster, you're not going to build an "uber-team" every year. That's been a fundamental disagreement between the baseball ops people and Larry Lucchino. That's how Theo Epstein built the team this year. They're not going to go for it, like they talked about in Feeding the Monster. The ratings are down, and interest is down. SOME PEOPLE have been talking about that for years, but it's HAPPENING NOW. The Red Sox don't have stars, the fan doesn't care about the team. It's like 2006. In 2006, the Red Sox didn't make a move at the deadline while the Yankees traded for Abreu. The Yankees traded for Berkman and Kerry Wood. The Red Sox did not trade for anybody, they have abandoned this team, because they always labeled it to be a bridge year. That's what the feeling entering 2006 was. They didn't sign Jason Bay, telling him he needed surgery when he didn't need it. The Red Sox missed out on Mark Teixeira. Missing out on Teixeira was a seminal move in franchise history." - Tony Mazz on Monday.

Is there any doubt?

(Some of those points may be valid...but still, is there really any doubt he won't hit on that word-for-word)?

None. It's all about positioning. Their afternoon competition on 'EEI, catering to its beloved demographic, ballwashes the local teams (one in particular) and bludgeons callers. These guys do the opposite.

In Tony's case, this is fueled by his inability ever to forgive the RS for trading Nomar -- and winning a WS in the process.

 

[soxfan121]

If you've been listening to Mazz recently, he is living in 2001 in terms of valuing players (granted, most of the media here is living in 1975). It's funny you mention wOBA, because Mazz has apparently fallen in love with OPS (I guess their interview with Theo was a wake up call), yet he clearly thinks slug is far more important than OBP. I didn't hear this particular discussion, but I'm for Mazz, Werth has only hit 30 home runs once, Bay is a "slugger". Also, he has absolutely no concept of defensive value (Ichiro is "wildly overrated/overpaid", Pedroia didn't deserve the MVP in 08 etc) aside from acknowledging that some p[layers have good defensive reputations. In 5 years he'll be killing the Red Sox for not having enough plus defenders while they attack the newest inefficiency.

The Ichiro stuff was really horrific and stupid, IMO. I can see how you could make the argument (note: not a good argument, just that it can be made) that Ellsbury is a "middle of the pack" leadoff hitter.

But you simply cannot say "Ichiro is overrated and not a top 10 leadoff hitter because he doesn't hit for enough power." I mean, that statement is ludacrisp and indefensible. Ichiro racks up 200+ hits a year, is an outstanding base runner, can steal bags at a better than 85% success rate and puts an enormous amount of pressure on a defense. I'm admittedly a huge mark for Ichiro - I happen to think he's a first ballot HoF and has a legit chance to someday break the career hits record but there is absolutely NO WAY that he's not one of the top 5 lead off hitters in baseball. None. Saying otherwise makes me question whether Tony Mazz actually _knows_ anything about baseball.

Similarly, he was using OPS as his primary evidence, while clearly just adding OBA to SLG and then fixating on the SLG as by far more important. And all this convoluted BS was yet another attempt to lionize and celebrate Johnny Damon. What was it about Damon that has the Boston media - 5 years later! - still fawning over him?

 

[dcmissle]

And all this convoluted BS was yet another attempt to lionize and celebrate Johnny Damon. What was it about Damon that has the Boston media - 5 years later! - still fawning over him?

Celebrity. See Bill Simmons: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100729

The columnists and talking heads are bored. Most of the rest of us are not.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

Celebrity. See Bill Simmons: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100729

The columnists and talking heads are bored. Most of the rest of us are not.

Apparently a large portion of the fanbase is:

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/58817-red-sox-games-no-longer-must-see-tv/


As for Mazz, I'm not a fan of him alone as well. I actually agree with a lot of his Red Sox points, but he's just a terrible radio host. As a second bannanna, with someone else doing the heavy lifting entertainment wise, he's fine.

3 times last week he was so bad I actually clicked to EEI, who were ballwashing Tom Brady, and then I went to music.

 

[dcmissle]

Speaking of ballwashing ... It's always interesting to me how Mazz can pivot from something this laudatory in print --

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2010/07/belichick_patriots_get_back_to.html

(Note especially the last sentence in the next-to-last paragraph) --

to "ROME IS BURNING!" when he hits the airwaves speaking about the very same franchise.

It's called product positioning.

The myth that these two have markedly upped the quality of sports talk radio in Boston has been dispelled. They are simply offering something different, and different isn't necessarily better.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

Speaking of ballwashing ... It's always interesting to me how Mazz can pivot from something this laudatory in print --

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2010/07/belichick_patriots_get_back_to.html

(Note especially the last sentence in the next-to-last paragraph) --

to "ROME IS BURNING!" when he hits the airwaves speaking about the very same franchise.

It's called product positioning.

The myth that these two have markedly upped the quality of sports talk radio in Boston has been dispelled. They are simply offering something different, and different isn't necessarily better.

Actually its called entertainment. And right now Felger is the best in this market IMO. Tony Mazz? He's a fucking hack, and it shows daily when Felger is gone. The Big Show? Stopped entertaining about a decade ago.

I'm not sure you quite understand this medium, and what its supposed to represent. They aren't reporters, they're entertainers. They aren't there to teach or enlighten you about sports..........they are there to make you enjoy the broadcast. I like the way this show does it, even though Mazz sucks. Pretty soon they're gonna be #1 in afternoon drive.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Rocco is 100% right and here's the thing, the people in radio/print know it too.

Mazz has two jobs: one where he can say what he wants in a vacuum and not really worry about what people think. The other job requires interaction. Like it or not, if Tony Massarotti was milquetoast and didn't take the contrarian viewpoint, no one would listen to his and Felger's show. Having said that, there are ways to do this without sounding like a complete imbecile and Felger does this very well. Up until April or May, Mazz was doing this well too, but something happened around that time. I'm not sure exactly what it was, perhaps he can't keep two jobs at once and is getting burnt out. I don't know.

Massarotti is a good second banana. He's not a great second banana, but when Felger is on the show, he's passable. Who would be a good partner for Felger? I'm not sure. Certainly not Pete Sheppherd (who knows his stuff, but doesn't speak very well). Not Bob Neumeirer (who I think is getting a bit senile). Bob Ryan (perhaps, but he's too busy), Dan Shaughnessy (he'd get bored within a month), Michael Smith (not sure what he knows about the NHL, NBA and MLB) Michael Holley (probably).

As you can see, it's hard to come up with someone else. Massarotti works.

Whomever it is has to be able to get people to call up or at the very least stick around to listen to what they have to say. Every once in awhile someone posts that there should be more statistical analysis on the radio. That is ratings death, a very small section of the population is going to listen to a string of numbers being broadcast. And that's the same thing with announcers who don't connect (even negatively).

It's like that line in "Private Parts" where Pig Vomit is surprised that people who hate Howard Stern listen more than people who like him. Indifference kills, not dislike.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

Rocco is 100% right and here's the thing, the people in radio/print know it too.

Mazz has two jobs: one where he can say what he wants in a vacuum and not really worry about what people think. The other job requires interaction. Like it or not, if Tony Massarotti was milquetoast and didn't take the contrarian viewpoint, no one would listen to his and Felger's show. Having said that, there are ways to do this without sounding like a complete imbecile and Felger does this very well. Up until April or May, Mazz was doing this well too, but something happened around that time. I'm not sure exactly what it was, perhaps he can't keep two jobs at once and is getting burnt out. I don't know.

Massarotti is a good second banana. He's not a great second banana, but when Felger is on the show, he's passable. Who would be a good partner for Felger? I'm not sure. Certainly not Pete Sheppherd (who knows his stuff, but doesn't speak very well). Not Bob Neumeirer (who I think is getting a bit senile). Bob Ryan (perhaps, but he's too busy), Dan Shaughnessy (he'd get bored within a month), Michael Smith (not sure what he knows about the NHL, NBA and MLB) Michael Holley (probably).

As you can see, it's hard to come up with someone else. Massarotti works.

Whomever it is has to be able to get people to call up or at the very least stick around to listen to what they have to say. Every once in awhile someone posts that there should be more statistical analysis on the radio. That is ratings death, a very small section of the population is going to listen to a string of numbers being broadcast. And that's the same thing with announcers who don't connect (even negatively).

It's like that line in "Private Parts" where Pig Vomit is surprised that people who hate Howard Stern listen more than people who like him. Indifference kills, not dislike.

Here is the actual quote:

Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Pig Vomit: How can that be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what he'll say next."
Pig Vomit: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.
Pig Vomit: But... if they hate him, why do they listen?
Researcher: Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next."

 

[dcmissle]

Rocco is 100% right and here's the thing, the people in radio/print know it too.

Mazz has two jobs: one where he can say what he wants in a vacuum and not really worry about what people think. The other job requires interaction. Like it or not, if Tony Massarotti was milquetoast and didn't take the contrarian viewpoint, no one would listen to his and Felger's show. Having said that, there are ways to do this without sounding like a complete imbecile and Felger does this very well. Up until April or May, Mazz was doing this well too, but something happened around that time. I'm not sure exactly what it was, perhaps he can't keep two jobs at once and is getting burnt out. I don't know.

Massarotti is a good second banana. He's not a great second banana, but when Felger is on the show, he's passable. Who would be a good partner for Felger? I'm not sure. Certainly not Pete Sheppherd (who knows his stuff, but doesn't speak very well). Not Bob Neumeirer (who I think is getting a bit senile). Bob Ryan (perhaps, but he's too busy), Dan Shaughnessy (he'd get bored within a month), Michael Smith (not sure what he knows about the NHL, NBA and MLB) Michael Holley (probably).

As you can see, it's hard to come up with someone else. Massarotti works.

Whomever it is has to be able to get people to call up or at the very least stick around to listen to what they have to say. Every once in awhile someone posts that there should be more statistical analysis on the radio. That is ratings death, a very small section of the population is going to listen to a string of numbers being broadcast. And that's the same thing with announcers who don't connect (even negatively).

It's like that line in "Private Parts" where Pig Vomit is surprised that people who hate Howard Stern listen more than people who like him. Indifference kills, not dislike.

ok ... so we're in accord that all of this is mere pretense ... which is fine, so long as the acolytes are not pushing the line that there is something bigger and more important going on here , especially in an FM radio/public spirited sort of way ---

Hell, I know I'm a prima donna.
I admit it.

What I can't stand about Monty is,
he won't admit it.

 

[dcmissle]

"It looks like the Red Sox have given up on the season. They gave up on the team in 2006. The Yankees traded for Bobby Abreu. Abreu crushed the Red Sox in that August series in Fenway, because the Red Sox didn't have a left-hander to get him out. The mentality has always been this was a bridge year. It's exactly what Seth Mnookin said in Feeding the Monster, you're not going to build an "uber-team" every year. That's been a fundamental disagreement between the baseball ops people and Larry Lucchino. That's how Theo Epstein built the team this year. They're not going to go for it, like they talked about in Feeding the Monster. The ratings are down, and interest is down. SOME PEOPLE have been talking about that for years, but it's HAPPENING NOW. The Red Sox don't have stars, the fan doesn't care about the team. It's like 2006. In 2006, the Red Sox didn't make a move at the deadline while the Yankees traded for Abreu. The Yankees traded for Berkman and Kerry Wood. The Red Sox did not trade for anybody, they have abandoned this team, because they always labeled it to be a bridge year. That's what the feeling entering 2006 was. They didn't sign Jason Bay, telling him he needed surgery when he didn't need it. The Red Sox missed out on Mark Teixeira. Missing out on Teixeira was a seminal move in franchise history." - Tony Mazz on Monday.

Is there any doubt?

(Some of those points may be valid...but still, is there really any doubt he won't hit on that word-for-word)?

You nailed it.

"They should have made a move back in JUNE ,,, injuries are becoming a convenient excuse ... How can we be in the business of writing off seasons?"

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

You nailed it.

"They should have made a move back in JUNE ,,, injuries are becoming a convenient excuse ... How can we be in the business of writing off seasons?"

You seem to hate this program. Why are you listening?

 

[dcmissle]

You seem to hate this program. Why are you listening?

I like it better than music.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

You seem to hate this program. Why are you listening?

DC has been banging this drum since the beginning,it's the same schtick as Mazz bitching about Bay and Teixeira.

Mazz has been absolutely brutal lately and it is even more noticable when Felger isn't there. Dan Roche was tearing him apart regarding Ichiro and Mazz sounded more and more like an idiot the more he kept calling him over-rated and tried to defend his position.

 

[Gambler7]

Friggen awesome call with "Jack" right now. Crushed Tony, said they may as well hire a parrot to sit next to Felger and repeat the same things every day.

 

[Phenom]

Friggen awesome call with "Jack" right now. Crushed Tony, said they may as well hire a parrot to sit next to Felger and repeat the same things every day.

Yes, great stuff.

Here's the difference between Felger and Mazz:

Both have been criticizing the Red Sox for not going after Kerry Wood. Felger's point is that it only would have cost money, and not players. The Red Sox weren't willing to go as far as the Yankees. He's in favor of them hoarding prospects, and think they do a good job with their farm system.

Whereas Tony just comes firing from all cylinders with his "ROME IS BURNING." First few minutes of the show it's the fans for not caring, then it's the Front Office for not being "emotional enough," then it's Theo for "overvaluing prospects." Meanwhile, in the next sentence, Mazz will say that he was in favor of the Lester for Santana and Buchholz for Saltalamacchia trades. Huh? Why mention that? Doesn't that take all of your credibility away?

Felger plans what he's going to say, and it all jives. It all makes sense. Mazz just amps it up, throwing things out there for the sake of "causing chaos." It's like a few weeks ago when he was urging Brady to hold out. Even though many explained why it didn't make sense, he kept firing in all directions on it.

Felger in his act comes off as entertaining. Mazz comes off as whiney and the quintessential "second guesser." He's worn thin in the year of the program.