Giants-Patriots: We're on to New York.

Oil Can Dan

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I expect the Pats will win this game because the Giants defense that will take the field on Sunday is not very good, but I will say that the Giants organization is not intimidated or afraid of the Pats, and their confidence level is high. They are very 'up' for this game.
 

TomTerrific

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Except the Giants' confidence is significantly more grounded in reality.
If we're talking the Dolphins, yes, but those other two teams stack up pretty well against the Giants. I would even venture to say that I would favor either one over the G-men in a neutral location.
 

kenneycb

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If we're talking the Dolphins, yes, but those other two teams stack up pretty well against the Giants. I would even venture to say that I would favor either one over the G-men in a neutral location.
No, I was saying the Giants' org' confidence is founded in reality given their HC and FO continuity while having abnormal success, relative to the league and in big moments, against the Pats. The rest...not so much.
 

TheoShmeo

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And unlike the other teams mentioned, the Giants have enjoyed success against the Pats and have a QB who is at least sometimes an elite performer.

Their confidence isn't just another example of false bravado. And unlike the other teams, we aren't hearing much of it from the players or coaches themselves (except JPP).
 

edmunddantes

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There is no such exception. The ball must be catchable. The only time the out of bounds exception would apply is if the QB goes outside the tackle box. Even if he's back in the box when he makes the throw, the tackle box basically disappears for good once the QB steps outside the box. Then he can throw the ball out of bounds, provided it goes beyond the line of scrimmage.

It's also legal to throw the ball away if the QB is not under pressure.
I wasn't calling it a real exception. I was calling it that you see those throws happen a ton where a guy under pressure sails it to the sideline in tackle box (i.e. all the rules that constitute IG), and there is almost never a call. The Russel Wilson one was the one that I could distinctly remember from this year. I wish I could remember the game. It was just absurd how far out of bounds it was, and the closest player by 5 yards or so was a defender all by himself.

I'd love to see a blowout, but I am not buying the 7-point line. That makes them 10-point dogs on a neutral field. Nope. Not given the history and our really sketchy health situation.

Give me a one point win and no more injuries.
A thousand times this. I had this wish for the Washington game, and it didn't work out. Hopefully the major injury stuff is over.
 

lexrageorge

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I wasn't calling it a real exception. I was calling it that you see those throws happen a ton where a guy under pressure sails it to the sideline in tackle box (i.e. all the rules that constitute IG), and there is almost never a call. The Russel Wilson one was the one that I could distinctly remember from this year. I wish I could remember the game. It was just absurd how far out of bounds it was, and the closest player by 5 yards or so was a defender all by himself.
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The rule book states "facing imminent loss of yardage". It's left up to the officials to decide what that means; I'm sure there are guidelines, but I don't know where to find them.

Throwing the ball away when noone's open and you realize the pocket protection is nearing collapse is OK. Throwing it away when the defender is 3 inches from tackling you and there are no blockers to stop him is not (which is what Brady did in the Super Bowl). There is a grey area in between. And given how the league is big on both offense and protecting QB's, the emphasis is probably for the officials to throw the flag only when there is no doubt the QB is about to be sacked. That latter sentence is an assumption, but given how infrequently the penalty is called, it's one I feel safe in making.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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I agree that the Giants are in the same category as the Ravens when it comes to success against the Pats not necessarily correlating to how well the team is doing overall or against other opponents.

However, this Giants defense is looking dreadful, despite the current boastful predictions of Three Finger Willie and his fellow lineman.
 
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Toe Nash

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I mean...I just don't get it I guess. The Giants have 4 players left who played in the 2011 SB and two of them may not play on Sunday due to injury. What is Coughlin's secret that gets them "up" for the game? Why doesn't he get them up for other games in their conference or division that are more important?
 

Bergs

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Well, I made the mistake of listening to BB's presser and now I'm terrified of these guys. BB could talk up a JV High School team into the 2nd coming of the 80's 49'ers.
 

Stitch01

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Yeah, I worry about this game because of injuries and the potential for the Giants passing game to run wild, not because the Giants have some sort of mystique and aura because of something that happened 8 years ago or w/e with different players on the roster (and a much better front four)

Pats are about a 10 points favorites on a neutral field against an average team by power rankings. Line might be a touch high with injuries but isn't crazy.
 

JohnnyK

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CB Justin Coleman, who was limited in practice Wednesday (hand), wearing a hard cast on right thumb onto wrist. Thinks he can play thru it.
I'm aware that he might just be toeing the party line about not revealing too much about the injury right now, but this at least makes me a little hopeful.

That would be grim at cornerback if he can't go
 

dcmissle

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I mean...I just don't get it I guess. The Giants have 4 players left who played in the 2011 SB and two of them may not play on Sunday due to injury. What is Coughlin's secret that gets them "up" for the game? Why doesn't he get them up for other games in their conference or division that are more important?
How do the Ravens manage to post two 14-point leads against us in an effing home playoff game last year?

Ravens and Giants are similar. Both have good HCs. Both teams are not intimidated a bit by the Pats. Both teams are capable of abysmal play during seasons where they accomplish a lot. What the Giants have this year, but the Ravens don't, is an ability to run roughshod in the passing game.

Some match ups for whatever reason are difficult. This is one of those.
 

Stitch01

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Yeah, have to assume Collins is out indefinitely at this point I think.

Some match ups for whatever reason are difficult. This is one of those.

Nah, this isn't a difficult matchup at all. The Giants don't get after the passer and don't have very good secondary receiving options. Its a road game against an average team and the Pats are beat up, so its not a walk, but its not a bad matchup.

If Justin Tuck is playing Sunday or Osi Umenyiora got into a time machine then its a tough matchup, but the Giants don't rush the passer very effectively.

The playoff game with the Ravens last year is somewhat instructive but for a different reason. The offense destroyed a defense they had historically had some difficulties against because the personnel wasn't as good as it had been previously.
 

Stitch01

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I actually take that as a positive, as crazy as it sounds. Terrible stomach flu that costs him 3 weeks >>>>>>some nasty staph infection or mono or something that kills the season.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Sounds like we'll be seeing Fleming and Stork at tackle again. Paper thin depth. Even against a poor pass rush, this is scary. I assume one of the PS tackles is getting bumped up into Dion's roster spot.

 

Ralphwiggum

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If Tom Coughlin is such a great head coach you would think he would have been able to get his team into the playoffs, or win more than 9 games, at least once since the last Super Bowl.

They won a couple of close games against the Pats at inopportune times. Very few players are left on either team since the last time they faced each other. Any given Sunday and all that, but the Giants and Coughlin don't have any super-secret formula to beat the Pats, the Pats are the better team and should win on Sunday.
 

H78

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I'm not trying to be a jerk, nor to further this thread's digression, but isn't this sort of post exactly what you're complaining about re: lack of hard evidence and effort? You make at least one definitive assertion that, as you said earlier in this thread, is easily countered by the briefest Google search: "[Brady] never throws the worst kind of interception." (The Lane INT in the last Super Bowl offers another example.) You're also presenting your opinion as fact ("When Brady throws it away, it is an obvious throwaway").

I'm with Bellhorn: presenting evidence to support one's claims is a rational and necessary policy. But maybe we could tone down the rhetoric calling out other posters a bit?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this and scratched my head.

I've always interpreted SoSH's "rules" to strongly encourage supporting documentation/work when making an original point, or when countering someone else's well-researched point. Generally, the type of "work" sought is some brand of legitimate, typically statistically-backed evidence.

But let's face it - even when those who put in the "leg work" post their evidence, it's often of the anecdotal variety: "I'm only going to include X and Y and disregard the rest because it doesn't help my point." It doesn't always happen, but cherry-picking stats and articles happens often enough - usually, it seems, when the "select" evidence favors the opinion of the poster. This usually leads to someone else pointing out that "Z" was omitted, leading to an endless thread of TL;DR anecdotal-evidence-based replies and rebuttals. That doesn't feel any "smarter," to me, than someone who posts a well-thought-out and written opinion that helps generate discussion on the message board.

But, I admit, I didn't write the rules and my interpretation should only be taken with a grain of salt (as I'm sure it will). I just love to read smart posts and replies from smart people. The vast majority of posts on this board come from what appear to be varying degrees of smart people. Whether they post an entire thesis including 50 links to various articles "supporting" their opinion may or may not make their post interesting to me. The substance is in the point itself - is it new, is it thought-provoking, and is it well-stated. I think >90% of posts here (outside of game threads) fit that criteria. To me, that's what separates SoSH from other boards and makes it such a wonderful community.

All of that said, I think soxfan is just trying to do his job. And sometimes challenging posters to include a bit more substance can be a good thing - I know it's helped me second-think what I post. But I don't think every innocuous, well-stated-but-possibly-lacking-inconsequential-evidence contribution needs to be challenged, either.
 

Stitch01

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My avatar appeared as part of some sort of outreach program for the dumb and lazy, I had frankly never noticed that before.
 

Reverend

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My avatar appeared as part of some sort of outreach program for the dumb and lazy, I had frankly never noticed that before.
I think you actually restated the same thing in that post like three times. I'd double check, except that I'm not gonna.
 

jablo1312

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Rex Ryan started off 3-2 against Belichick as a HC, and several of those wins were far more convincing than any of Coughlins wins against the Pats.