Gone Brady Gone

BaseballJones

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It's not hard at all to ignore TB12 if you don't like it. Honestly. It's like, super easy. Just pay no attention to it.
 

Seels

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I couldn't care less about this. The entire 21st century is ripe with grifters and fraudsters and the online / social media component has just amplified it to a ridiculous degree. This is getting into political area but really, there's a tough balance of the free market and outright grifting like this or millions of other examples of people that are either aware or unaware of their own manipulation. And people will buy it because people are idiots.

There are a lot of bad people out there just set to use everyone else they can as marks.

I'm pretty convinced 80% of first world countries are either in on a scam, or being scammed.
 

FL4WL3SS

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There's some strong evidence that Vitamin D deficient individuals are most prone to complications with COVID-19. It's thought that Vitamin D helps prevent respiratory damage and limits the cytokine storm which is killing people.


This isn't snake oil, there's some merit to keeping your body full of the proper nutrients (or hormones in the case of Vitamin D). We know that 40-50% of the population is deficient in Vitamin D.

Eating healthy, staying hydrated and being active in combination with the right supplements have helped me stay at my very best.
Who doesn't need to be more of those things? There's nothing wrong with what he's doing.

Having said that, fuck Tom Brady.
 

bankshot1

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This is a direct WFW quote from TB12's website promoting "Protect- Daily Support for a Healthy Immune Response".

"Tough workouts, long days, and too much stress can leave you — and your immune system — burnt out. Research shows that everyday stress can limit the production of white blood cells while high-intensity training can reduce levels of key antibodies — leaving your body susceptible to bacteria, viruses, and outside threats. From supporting natural killer cells to replenishing antibodies post-exercise, Protect helps activate your immune system and counter stress-induced immune suppression so you can stay active, resilient, and ready for whatever comes your way."

I think most of us can read between the lines and see and understand the pitch.

Dr Brady's Magic Virus killing Elixar*

*looks like vitamin C and zinc and 3 other ingrediants and not vitamin D are the ingrediants to virus killing

 

kenneycb

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He took a pretty good beating here (well deserved) when he and Gronk were pushing concussion water.
And it’s going to get worse as seen here by people raking him through the coals for selling stuff known to be good for your immunity. Wish casting at its finest.
 

kenneycb

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This is a direct WFW quote from TB12's website promoting "Protect- Daily Support for a Healthy Immune Response".

"Tough workouts, long days, and too much stress can leave you — and your immune system — burnt out. Research shows that everyday stress can limit the production of white blood cells while high-intensity training can reduce levels of key antibodies — leaving your body susceptible to bacteria, viruses, and outside threats. From supporting natural killer cells to replenishing antibodies post-exercise, Protect helps activate your immune system and counter stress-induced immune suppression so you can stay active, resilient, and ready for whatever comes your way."

I think most of us can read between the lines and see and understand the pitch.

Dr Brady's Magic Virus killing Elixar*

*looks like vitamin C and zinc and 3 other ingrediants and not vitamin D are the ingrediants to virus killing

What is false about anything it says? How would you improve it? How is this markedly different from what is on Emergen-C’s website?
 

bankshot1

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What is false about anything it says? How would you improve it? How is this markedly different from what is on Emergen-C’s website?
I didn't say it was false. I don't know if its false.

I said it was exploitive of the real fears of coronavirus.

YMMV

I'm a Brady guy but, Tampa Tom's marketing of magic pills that with a wink has an implied benefit for your immune system and to battling dangerous viruses in the midst of a health crisis, seems at best exploitive and snaky oily.
 

kenneycb

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Onto my other questions then:

How is it any more exploitative than other similar supplements and products on the market?

And if timing is your issue, when will it be okay to bring new products aimed at the immune system to market?
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Onto my other questions then:

How is it any more exploitative than other similar supplements and products on the market?

And if timing is your issue, when will it be okay to bring new products aimed at the immune system to market?
It isn't. It's the fact that he is one of the most recognizble people in the US using buzzwords to perk peoples ears up during a pandemic. It is exploitive at worst and tone deaf at best.

We aren't talking about the future. We are talking about now.
If you can't see past those buzzwords and the obvious pandering to the current situation you are nothing but a Brady Fanboy. (And I say the Fanboy part as a definite whataboutism to those who automatically claim criticism of Brady is because he is no longer employed by the football team that I happen to root for because decades ago someone who I don't even know their name decided to settle in the area)
 

luckiestman

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Who could have seen this coming???

 

Papelbon's Poutine

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“Immune system” is a buzzword? Immune supplements aren’t something he or his team invented or concocted. I take them daily, as does my wife. This is another brand of them. Get over it.
 

kenneycb

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Oh bullshit on the fanboy stuff. I mildly agree on the tone deaf stuff but not enough to lather into a “Fuck him” response and claiming he’s selling snake oil when he’s selling rebranded EmergenC.

You also keep harping on buzzwords. I see immune a couple times. Which is the stated value prop of the product. Hard to get around using that word. The rest is random health marketing nonsense.

Concussion water is bad. The rest is random run of the mill health supplement stuff thar has become a dog whistle for certain people in this forum.
 

bankshot1

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Onto my other questions then:

How is it any more exploitative than other similar supplements and products on the market?

And if timing is your issue, when will it be okay to bring new products aimed at the immune system to market?
I just took a quick look at the EmergenC link.

it seems they have been marketing their products since 1978.

Brady began marketing his (like) product yesterday.(?)

IMO Brady's marketing, including the use of his celebrity status, is exploiting and potentially profiting from a crisis and very real fears of CV.
 

kenneycb

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Again, when can he start talking about it then? Can no other company challenge Airbone and EmergenC? When is it okay to start talking about non-Covid immune health? Given people are becoming more aware of their health, couldn’t this be a good thing?

You’re creating hoops to jump through to get to a “TB12 the brand sucks” preordained conclusion.
 

luckiestman

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I just took a quick look at the EmergenC link.

it seems they have been marketing their products since 1978.

Brady began marketing his (like) product yesterday.(?)

IMO Brady's marketing, including the use of his celebrity status, is exploiting and potentially profiting from a crisis and very real fears of CV.
Here’s the thing, if he believes it helps your immune system and believes a healthy immune system helps you avoid the rona, is it exploitation?
 

bankshot1

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Here’s the thing, if he believes it helps your immune system and believes a healthy immune system helps you avoid the rona, is it exploitation?
Probably. He's doing this as an entrepenurial enterprise to presumably turn a profit. And his marketing dances around the corona issue, but most reasonably literate readers understand what he's attempting to sell.

And i don't know what medical degrees Dr, Brady holds so i might hold off on wholly endorsing his views on the benefits his over-priced (compared with the EmergennC product) in avoiding the Corona.

YMMV
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Oh bullshit on the fanboy stuff. I mildly agree on the tone deaf stuff but not enough to lather into a “Fuck him” response and claiming he’s selling snake oil when he’s selling rebranded EmergenC.

You also keep harping on buzzwords. I see immune a couple times. Which is the stated value prop of the product. Hard to get around using that word. The rest is random health marketing nonsense.

Concussion water is bad. The rest is random run of the mill health supplement stuff thar has become a dog whistle for certain people in this forum.
You entered into this debate fairly early on by stating that it was an anti-tom sentiment that will grow because he left the Patriots. That was what my Fanboy statement was all about. You don't get to claim criticism of this is because he left while also saying that defending it isn't fanboyism.

I am looking at the current pandemic situation. Selling expensive immune-boosters (with the history of the concusion-proof water) is not a good look. Using his celebrity sell this shit right now is disappointing/fuck you(on my end)

There may be some benefits to his concoction of vitamins (that are available at a fraction of the cost), but yea, toting immune promises right now is shitty. It is ok to say that while acknowledging that he gave me so many thrilling and life -long lasting great memories that I will remember forever. It's just disappointing that this is what he is doing for his brand.
 

luckiestman

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Probably. He's doing this as an entrepenurial enterprise to presumably turn a profit. And his marketing dances around the corona issue, but most reasonably literate readers understand what he's attempting to sell.

And i don't know what medical degrees Dr, Brady holds so i might hold off on wholly endorsing his views on the benefits his over-priced (compared with the EmergennC product) in avoiding the Corona.

YMMV
Doctors are great and treating diseases but I’m less convinced about how good they are about staying healthy. Tommy was in better shape In his 30s than when he was 20 so it isn’t genetics. So he knows something unless it’s all TRT.
 

Marciano490

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Do people think Tom is doing this for money? He’s been underpaid his whole career. Either it’s helpful, he earnestly believes in elixirs, or he’s selling out for more hundreds of millions. It’s gotta be a and/or b.
 

bankshot1

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Doctors are great and treating diseases but I’m less convinced about how good they are about staying healthy. Tommy was in better shape In his 30s than when he was 20 so it isn’t genetics. So he knows something unless it’s all TRT.
Order in the next 30 minutes and get a 2nd bottle of Protect, signed by TB12, for just shipping and handling.
 

luckiestman

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Order in the next 30 minutes and get a 2nd bottle of Protect, signed by TB12, for just shipping and handling.
I get it, man. It’s huckster advertising. That doesn’t necessarily mean the underlying product is bad or the intent is nefarious. Arguably, the best American bjj coach (who is not a great guy but I’m not going to get into that) uses huckster advertising schemes, the advertising is comically bad, but he also is the best coach....so I don’t know. I’m not ready to call Tommy a piece of shit because he wants you to live.
 

RedOctober3829

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The timing of this product being unveiled is bad optics at best and deplorable at it's worst. Combine this plus the involvement with Alex Guerrero's NeuroSafe product that claimed it prevents concussions and it doesn't portray Brady in a great light. I don't blame him for trying to sell his brand and he's done a great job at it, but don't tell me drinking this water or taking this is going to do anything towards not getting a concussion or help me not get the coronavirus. The description claims it is not a cure for anything, but how many people are going to see the immune booster and think it will help them not get sick in one form or fashion. One of the items in the pill is elderberry is in a couple of other products whose companies claimed prevents or treats coronavirus and were sent letters by the FDA for making fraudulent claims. Not to mention the product isn't FDA-approved. The timing of the release just plain looks bad for him intended or not.

If he's going to peddle products, at least peddle ones not so close to the line of being dangerous to his consumers.
 

kenneycb

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You entered into this debate fairly early on by stating that it was an anti-tom sentiment that will grow because he left the Patriots. That was what my Fanboy statement was all about. You don't get to claim criticism of this is because he left while also saying that defending it isn't fanboyism.

I am looking at the current pandemic situation. Selling expensive immune-boosters (with the history of the concusion-proof water) is not a good look. Using his celebrity sell this shit right now is disappointing/fuck you(on my end)

There may be some benefits to his concoction of vitamins (that are available at a fraction of the cost), but yea, toting immune promises right now is shitty. It is ok to say that while acknowledging that he gave me so many thrilling and life -long lasting great memories that I will remember forever. It's just disappointing that this is what he is doing for his brand.
I never said that explicitly and you’re projecting my point as a “gotcha”. I was speaking more in generalities and, regardless, both can be true in this instance. I don’t believe it is a driver in this instance since people have a weird desire to shit on all things TB12 as snake oil when it’s not markedly different from Jerod Mayo’s Mayo he slapped his name on a while back.

There’s no promise in the pitch of the product. Or on the website. Or in any other marketing material. You keep getting hung up on buzzwords and promises that aren’t there. It’s standard marketing copy creating a call to action to buy this product you what you need to leave a healthy, resilient life, whatever the hell that means.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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Again, when can he start talking about it then? Can no other company challenge Airbone and EmergenC? When is it okay to start talking about non-Covid immune health? Given people are becoming more aware of their health, couldn’t this be a good thing?

You’re creating hoops to jump through to get to a “TB12 the brand sucks” preordained conclusion.
Nah, man. Despite this being similar to a million other products that already exist AND it fitting into the category of things he was already selling AND all the people who agree that it's actually beneficial AND the fact that "immunity boost" is not some new buzz word AND the fact that they've had something similar on their site for a couple months already, you're just a fanboy who can't see Tom Brady is a scumbag virus profiteer.

That motherfucker is trying to sell people Vitamin C!

 

bankshot1

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I get it, man. It’s huckster advertising. That doesn’t necessarily mean the underlying product is bad or the intent is nefarious. Arguably, the best American bjj coach (who is not a great guy but I’m not going to get into that) uses huckster advertising schemes, the advertising is comically bad, but he also is the best coach....so I don’t know. I’m not ready to call Tommy a piece of shit because he wants you to live.
Lets be clear, I didn't say TB12 was a piece of shit, I said he was exploiting a scared populace, with squishy claims of killer cells being reinvigorated by his secret pills to kill mysterious unnamed viruses. And if people want to buy it they can.

And if you order in the next 15 minutes...
 

kenneycb

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The timing of this product being unveiled is bad optics at best and deplorable at it's worst. Combine this plus the involvement with Alex Guerrero's NeuroSafe product that claimed it prevents concussions and it doesn't portray Brady in a great light. I don't blame him for trying to sell his brand and he's done a great job at it, but don't tell me drinking this water or taking this is going to do anything towards not getting a concussion or help me not get the coronavirus. The description claims it is not a cure for anything, but how many people are going to see the immune booster and think it will help them not get sick in one form or fashion. One of the items in the pill is elderberry is in a couple of other products whose companies claimed prevents or treats coronavirus and were sent letters by the FDA for making fraudulent claims. Not to mention the product isn't FDA-approved. The timing of the release just plain looks bad for him intended or not.

If he's going to peddle products, at least peddle ones not so close to the line of being dangerous to his consumers.
You do realize elderberry isn’t some new novel supplement? It’s in a ton of existing stuff for its antioxidant benefits.


There are also a bunch of non-FDA approved supplements that get sold and taken. EnergenC isn’t FDA approved, for example. That hasn’t led people to believe it will cure you from Covid.

This argument is honestly like Deflategate where you start with a conclusion and find ways to fit specific non-contextual evidence that supports it.
 

luckiestman

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Lets be clear, I didn't say TB12 was a piece of shit, I said he was exploiting a scared populace, with squishy claims of killer cells being reinvogorated by his secret pills to kill mysterious unnamed viruses. And if people want to buy it they can.

And if you order in the next 15 minutes...
1. I already ordered and I got the 2nd to last one. I had bad FOMO but I got in.

2. Is one a piece of shit if one exploits a scared populace?

That’s a strange rhetorical move by you. Like he’s a great guy that just so happens to be exploiting a scared populace?
 

BigSoxFan

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As the pre-eminent TB fanboy on this site (E5 has my credentials), I feel compelled to weigh in here.

I’ll preface this by saying that I‘ve always been pretty uncomfortable with his relationship with Alex Guerrero. Never quite ruled out the possibility of a PED suspension or something coming out of that relationship. Glad that never materialized.

As for this product, I agree that the optics of a smiling TB12 in a Tampa mansion hawking this product during a devastating pandemic just isn’t good. It could be coming from the best of places and he could give half of the profits to whatever COVID cause and it’s still make me a little uncomfortable.

With that said, the product itself is on point with his TB12 brand and my guess is this will be occupying the bulk of his post-retirement days. This isn’t like that dude in TN who bought up all the hand sanitizer. I think Brady believes in the product and his business managers timed the release for max effect. I wouldn’t have done it, especially if I had his wealth, but I’m not going to throw him to the gallows either. This is a guy who had the toughest job in sports for 2 decades and still found time to donate his time to many important causes. I’m comfortable thinking he’s a genuinely good guy. I’m also comfortable thinking that genuinely good guys can sometimes make poor business decisions. I believe this to be one of those.

Verdict: TB12 is still the apple of my eye but I don’t think he and his business associates made a good decision here. This pandemic is going to go on for a while so a health-focused company has to be able to sell its products at some point. I just would have waited longer. The TB12 business isn’t going to collapse if he loses out on a few months of vitamin sales.
 

bankshot1

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1. I already ordered and I got the 2nd to last one. I had bad FOMO but I got in.

2. Is one a piece of shit if one exploits a scared populace?

That’s a strange rhetorical move by you. Like he’s a great guy that just so happens to be exploiting a scared populace?
I'm a huge Brady fan.As a QB. I think he's the GOAT. And given what I think will be a tough year for the Pats,will easily root for him to get his 7th ring in Tampa.

However, I think this marketing of PROTECT at this time and in the manner it was done was a mistake. And he took some very poor advice. IMO it tarnishes Brady unnecessarily.

Penny wise, fucking dumb. It will not be worth it.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I'm a huge Brady fan.As a QB. I think he's the GOAT. And given what I think will be a tough year for the Pats,will easily root for him to get his 7th ring in Tampa.

However, I think this marketing of PROTECT at this time and in the manner it was done was a mistake. And he took some very poor advice. IMO it tarnishes Brady unnecessarily.

Penny wise, fucking dumb. It will not be worth it.
Lol, who’s the arbiter if ‘worth it’ on this?
 

Montana Fan

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Man, after hitting unignore for the last few pages of this thread I found many of the same shit posters who populate V&N spitting venom at TFB. LMAO!! Yeah, he totally sucks at life. Fucking loser.
 

pappymojo

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Jul 28, 2010
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The timing of this product being unveiled is bad optics at best and deplorable at it's worst. Combine this plus the involvement with Alex Guerrero's NeuroSafe product that claimed it prevents concussions and it doesn't portray Brady in a great light. I don't blame him for trying to sell his brand and he's done a great job at it, but don't tell me drinking this water or taking this is going to do anything towards not getting a concussion or help me not get the coronavirus. The description claims it is not a cure for anything, but how many people are going to see the immune booster and think it will help them not get sick in one form or fashion. One of the items in the pill is elderberry is in a couple of other products whose companies claimed prevents or treats coronavirus and were sent letters by the FDA for making fraudulent claims. Not to mention the product isn't FDA-approved. The timing of the release just plain looks bad for him intended or not.

If he's going to peddle products, at least peddle ones not so close to the line of being dangerous to his consumers.
Are any multivitamins fda approved? We have some smartypants vitamins we give our kids that have the same warning in them. I thought every vitamin did.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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1.) Since Covid started in the US, hes been caught trying to go to Byron Leftwich's house, got kicked off a public field while practicing, and has organized practice with his new teammates. Whether hes not taking this seriously, I dont know. But we shouldnt be shocked at this point that he is unaware of the optics right now (or doesnt care).

2. I tend not to believe people who sell products. But one thing has been clear for years with Tom: he really does believe in this stuff. And he has said on multiple occasions that he wants to share this revelation with others. I dont know if Brady is simply unaware of the optics (see #1 above) or being exploitative, but if he is taking advantage of the situation:

If Brady used Covid to push a product that he truly believed would help protect people, does that make him an asshole? I'm sure the money is nice, but that's obviously never been his priority. Isnt there a difference between a snake oil salesman, and someone who really believes in their product? Especially since there is evidence this stuff works (I mean, his entire routine is basically vitamins, eating fucking vegetables, drinking lots of water, getting lots of sleep, band and core strength training instead of weight training)?
 

CantKeepmedown

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Even the biggest TB12 haters on my twiiter and facebook feeds haven't said boo about this. Maybe he's guilty of bad timing, but anything more is a stretch, IMO.
 

RedOctober3829

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As the pre-eminent TB fanboy on this site (E5 has my credentials), I feel compelled to weigh in here.

I’ll preface this by saying that I‘ve always been pretty uncomfortable with his relationship with Alex Guerrero. Never quite ruled out the possibility of a PED suspension or something coming out of that relationship. Glad that never materialized.

As for this product, I agree that the optics of a smiling TB12 in a Tampa mansion hawking this product during a devastating pandemic just isn’t good. It could be coming from the best of places and he could give half of the profits to whatever COVID cause and it’s still make me a little uncomfortable.

With that said, the product itself is on point with his TB12 brand and my guess is this will be occupying the bulk of his post-retirement days. This isn’t like that dude in TN who bought up all the hand sanitizer. I think Brady believes in the product and his business managers timed the release for max effect. I wouldn’t have done it, especially if I had his wealth, but I’m not going to throw him to the gallows either. This is a guy who had the toughest job in sports for 2 decades and still found time to donate his time to many important causes. I’m comfortable thinking he’s a genuinely good guy. I’m also comfortable thinking that genuinely good guys can sometimes make poor business decisions. I believe this to be one of those.

Verdict: TB12 is still the apple of my eye but I don’t think he and his business associates made a good decision here. This pandemic is going to go on for a while so a health-focused company has to be able to sell its products at some point. I just would have waited longer. The TB12 business isn’t going to collapse if he loses out on a few months of vitamin sales.
This is how I feel too. It’s the optics of releasing this during the pandemic that makes it a controversy moreso than the actual product. The endorsement of the concussion water was worse than this.
 

johnmd20

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I'm a huge Brady fan.As a QB. I think he's the GOAT. And given what I think will be a tough year for the Pats,will easily root for him to get his 7th ring in Tampa.

However, I think this marketing of PROTECT at this time and in the manner it was done was a mistake. And he took some very poor advice. IMO it tarnishes Brady unnecessarily.

Penny wise, fucking dumb. It will not be worth it.
Tarnishes. Tom Brady has never had any drama off the field. No trouble at home. No trouble on the road. No trouble anywhere. He showed up every year, in shape and ready to play. He won 6 super bowls and he's playing at an age where no one else could even consider doing so.(excluding kickers) Ben R is 5 years younger and about 500 years older in physical health. Aaron Rodgers is SEVEN years younger, and a decline is already happening. It is fair to say that whatever the fuck it is that Brady is doing is working. So it would stand to reason that he would want to impart this wisdom to other people.

People are insane to judge this. The entitlement and hot takes are truly breathtaking. Here's the thing. If you don't want to buy these products, don't. Jeez, that's your choice. But the panting and ranting is absurd. Tom Brady is not hawking a Covid cure. He is hawking an immune booster. Unless I am mistaken, he's not the first person or company to market an immune booster. And studies show they can help people.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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This is how I feel too. It’s the optics of releasing this during the pandemic that makes it a controversy moreso than the actual product. The endorsement of the concussion water was worse than this.
Again, the optics to who? Not nearly as many people give a shit now that the Pats aren't going to be good anymore (at least for a while) and even in the height of it, no one gave a shit about the concussion water. If he had these planned to roll out, I don't see the harm. And no, waiting isn't really an option, vitamins have shelf lives and expiration dates; he'd likely have to eat the loss on his entire inventory.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Are any multivitamins fda approved? We have some smartypants vitamins we give our kids that have the same warning in them. I thought every vitamin did.
Some are FDA approved others aren't, very few get any kind of endorsement from them, but none are regulated by the FDA as far as ingredients go; so effectiveness and purity are all subject to variation; safety is up to the manufacturer and they're also not permitted to label as treatment or cure for specific things, i.e. a supplement can't claim to prevent, i dunno, COVID; which he isn't doing.
 

RedOctober3829

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Again, the optics to who? Not nearly as many people give a shit now that the Pats aren't going to be good anymore (at least for a while) and even in the height of it, no one gave a shit about the concussion water. If he had these planned to roll out, I don't see the harm. And no, waiting isn't really an option, vitamins have shelf lives and expiration dates; he'd likely have to eat the loss on his entire inventory.
I'm looking at the optics from Brady's perspective, not from a Patriots perspective as obviously he's not there anymore. His marketing team should have known that rolling this product out now especially how he described it on his IG video would lead people to make conclusions that they were using the COVID to help market the product. Especially in the end of his video when he says it will" provide exactly what you need to stay healthy, strong, and resilient from whatever comes your way." What is forefront in everyone's mind right now as far as the immune system? If you're involved with Alex Guerrero, it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to products like this when Guerrero peddled items like NeuroSafe and Supreme Greens.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Jul 31, 2006
11,304
Andy Brickley's potty mouth
Brady is such a loser for selling Vitamins during a pandemic. Don't you see that GNC stores are closed??

The idiots on this site will argue about anything. I get we're all bored at home, but fucking relax bro.

Optics tho mate!
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
13,264
Tuukka's refugee camp
I'm looking at the optics from Brady's perspective, not from a Patriots perspective as obviously he's not there anymore. His marketing team should have known that rolling this product out now especially how he described it on his IG video would lead people to make conclusions that they were using the COVID to help market the product. Especially in the end of his video when he says it will" provide exactly what you need to stay healthy, strong, and resilient from whatever comes your way." What is forefront in everyone's mind right now as far as the immune system? If you're involved with Alex Guerrero, it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to products like this when Guerrero peddled items like NeuroSafe and Supreme Greens.
So are people actually getting duped? Or is it the media/Twitter claiming people may get duped despite nobody actually getting duped?