Grantland

JimBoSox9

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Some good things up right now. Michael Weinreb has what I think is a nice version of the standard Saban competitiveness profile: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8825140/nick-saban-alabama-wins-bcs-national-championship-again. Also, Jalen Rose's take on the Melo/KG situation is completely absent of the kind of handwringing histronics that tends to envelop even ex-player talking heads when the rougher side of sports is discussed: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47031/video-kevin-garnett-carmelo-anthony-honey-nut-cheerios-and-trash-talk-in-the-nba. I didn't think Rose would be much as a media guy, but he seems to have no patience for making macro narratives about society from sports incidents, and I'm a big fan of that.
 

Shelterdog

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Chris Brown's story on the Indy Denver offense is absolutely outstanding - love the diagramming of the "Z Dig".
Chris Brown is awesome. Kind of an arrogant prick on twitter but super knowledgable.

To beat my hobby horse the effort and time evinced in this Chris Brown piece shows why TMQ and Peter King suck--the game is so complex that it is close to impossible to say anything intelligent when you cover every team every week.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I really thought that this piece was going to be better.

Should an article with Led Zeppelin in the title be made up of pointless anticdotes of Arcade Fire and Steve Hyden? GET TO THE FUCKING POINT, STEVE. I DON'T HAVE ALL FUCKING DAY.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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MacDonald writes a lot like Hunter S. Thompson, but with more lucidity and passion. He might be my new favorite sportswriter.
 

ifmanis5

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I really thought that this piece was going to be better.

Should an article with Led Zeppelin in the title be made up of pointless anticdotes of Arcade Fire and Steve Hyden? GET TO THE FUCKING POINT, STEVE. I DON'T HAVE ALL FUCKING DAY.

Part 2 is a non-starter for me.

and why nobody ever talks about Kiss's (actually pretty decent!) music.

Uh, because they are terrible?
 

Spacemans Bong

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'Pretty decent' is such a copout phrase. He knows what he's saying is bullshit, but he doesn't have the gumption to go out there and show everybody he's an idiot in a blaze of glory. So he couches it in such a terms so he can pull back and say he doesn't think Kiss is *good*, just that they're really a 4 /10 instead of a 1/10.
 

Joe D Reid

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I remember hearing him talk about that somewhere, and I think he said something crazy like he was raised a Bruins fan in Canada because his father hated francophone Quebequois, but now roots for Montreal against everyone but Boston. I may have gotten some or all of that wrong, but I remember it being convoluted.
 

Spacemans Bong

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I remember hearing him talk about that somewhere, and I think he said something crazy like he was raised a Bruins fan in Canada because his father hated francophone Quebequois, but now roots for Montreal against everyone but Boston. I may have gotten some or all of that wrong, but I remember it being convoluted.
I know he's from Quebec City and I remember him saying in an interview that his dad hated the French and raised him a Bruins fan, but that doesn't sound convincing when you're sporting a Habs hat and talking about how you worshiped the Roadrunner, Yvan Cournoyer. Plus the Habs were winning Cups for fun when Norm was a kid. So I'm guessing it didn't take.
 

Vandalman

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Charlie Pierce on the Pats-Texans playoff game: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8842839/rob-ninkovich-patriots-texans
Really good. As usual.
Especially this quote:

Tom Brady's reward for a 25-for-40, three-touchdown evening in which he topped Joe Montana for playoff wins in a career is merely to face off for an entire week against the relentless hype of the ongoing Ray Lewis–Don't-Mention-The-Inconveniently-Dead-Guys Farewell Tour Of The Americas.

and this one:

I swear, sometimes covering the Patriots is like writing a novel about one of those faded Gothic Southern families that has Uncle Derwin's corpse down in the basement, where the whole clan gathers every day at five to drink high tea with the deceased.
 

The Social Chair

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I enjoyed Rembert on Seahawks- Falcons http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47506/falcons-30-seahawks-28-or-the-day-i-became-a-sports-fan

Rembert really seems like this generations Bill Simmons to me- neither are great writers with flowery prose but both project a lot of personality in their writing (for better or worse). Rembert is getting really popular with the 25 and under crowd (not Simmons in 2003, but no sports/pop culture writer will ever be that popular with that demo again). He has a funny, fresh voice to me.
 

Tartan

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As someone who is part of he 25 and under crowd, I do quite like Rembert. Considering how often Simmons has been criticized in the past for being out of touch with any pop culture post-1994, it seems obvious why they brought him in. He's energetic and fun to read. So much pop culture writing aimed at the >25 crowd is drowned by self-conscious cynicism and snark, and it's nice to see someone who just seem to be having fun with his job and who isn't afraid to show it, and doesn't need to position himself above the material he's writing about.
 

johnmd20

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As someone who is part of he 25 and under crowd, I do quite like Rembert. Considering how often Simmons has been criticized in the past for being out of touch with any pop culture post-1994, it seems obvious why they brought him in. He's energetic and fun to read. So much pop culture writing aimed at the >25 crowd is drowned by self-conscious cynicism and snark, and it's nice to see someone who just seem to be having fun with his job and who isn't afraid to show it, and doesn't need to position himself above the material he's writing about.
How column about the Falcons was awesome. 2001 Simmons-esque.
 

Clears Cleaver

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anyone listen to the Adam Carolla interview of Mike Tyson? Fascinating stuff. Carolla speaks over Tyson a few too many times, but he reall explored some topics that many "jhournalists": might consider taboo. Really intersting. Worth the 80 minutes or so
 

SidelineCameras

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Listening to "Smart Guy Wednesday," Simmons and Barnwell are talking about the Broncos getting two special teams touchdowns and still losing. Barnwell said that teams scoring two special teams TDs were 21-4 all-time before the Broncos loss, when Simmons asked if that included the regular season or just playoffs. Barnwell answered that he couldn't remember a team ever scoring two special teams TD's in a playoff game before.

Mr. Barnwell, can I refer you to this game?

My love for Troy Brown will never die.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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First, let me make it clear that I am very biased and interested in this story and person. I have had the same condition as Royce White for 15 years, it started at the same age it started for him and our particular avoidances are very much in-line. How he describes his initial experience that led to panic attacks is eeirly similiar to how I have explained mine to a dozen therapists in the course of my treatment. I know he is a lightning rod figure and I do not agree with everything he says. I also feel like he is a contradiction and understand those that say he should 'just play.'
 
That out of the way, this was my favorite piece on Grantland since the site began:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8890734/chuck-klosterman-royce-white
 

teddykgb

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Drocca said:
First, let me make it clear that I am very biased and interested in this story and person. I have had the same condition as Royce White for 15 years, it started at the same age it started for him and our particular avoidances are very much in-line. How he describes his initial experience that led to panic attacks is eeirly similiar to how I have explained mine to a dozen therapists in the course of my treatment. I know he is a lightning rod figure and I do not agree with everything he says. I also feel like he is a contradiction and understand those that say he should 'just play.'
 
That out of the way, this was my favorite piece on Grantland since the site began:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8890734/chuck-klosterman-royce-white
 
It was well written and as per usual Klosterman does a great job of setting aside the veneer and really provoking thought, but I have a hard time seeing how you relate to White in that piece.  If anything, White comes across as a charlatan to those who suffer from this stuff for real.  How much of a victim can one 19 year old be?  Then going on to compare himself to King and other true social rights heroes? I didn't know half the stuff about him that Klosterman mentions, but isn't the youtube retirement, twitter obsession, and the need to drum up controversy a huge red flag for someone with legitimate anxiety disorder?
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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It's not a huge red flag at all, at least in my eyes. I have similiar narcissitic tendancies so I am probably more forgiving of most of his obvious flaws. And, as I said, I'm not someone who agrees with all of his positions. If anything, the things you mention re-inforce his illness as opposed to retract from it. As for the comparisons to the social rights heroes I read it as simply stating that being insufferable doesn't necessarily mean that you are wrong.
 
But as I said, I'm biased on the subject matter.
 
You bring up an excellent point about the victimization because I hate the way that is couched and I think he does do his cause a disservice when taking that angle but he's a 19 year old famous person. I was just as insufferable myself and I was just a 19 year old.
 

Mr Mulliner

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One of the reasons I find this site so fascinating is that, inevitably, I can come here to find someone who experienced the EXACT opposite reaction to something that I did.  I know, of course, that is very common, but in my "real" life I don't often get the opportunity to understand thoroughly how others see the world through a different lens.
 
I read the Royce White article and my reaction was, "who doesn't realize that life (all life, including human) is about stress and anxiety?"  
 
I mean, I think of it as the basic condition of existence.  Being alive is about staying alive - on its most basic level its about avoiding death for as long as possible.  Take a look at any animal on this planet and see how much time they spend enjoying life...  As a species, we have "advanced" to a point where we actually do have a quite literally unimaginable freedom from the constant anxiety of any other species, with the possible exception of our pets.
 
I'm not completely sure how to phrase this, but it seems that the type of anxiety disorder that White (and by extension Drocca) is talking about is partly the result of an unreasonable view of the world - that somehow, if not for these various societal "factors", humans would be living healthy, full, enriching and stress free lives, as if that was the natural stasis.  
 
I am likely demonstrating my profound ignorance on mental illness with my thinking here, and I am definitely not trying to cause offense and welcome anyone pointing out where I am misguided, wrong, idiotic, etc..  But to me the anxiety feels like a symptom of a manic and wildly inacurrate view of the human condition.
 
Anyway, I am interested in the discussion even if this is a clumsy and rushed initial thought on my part.
 
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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I think you are 100% correct about stress and anxiety being a basic condition of existence. I think that Royce White makes terrible points when he tries to broaden that basic truth to mean that anyone that stresses or is anxious has a disorder or mental illness.
 
He does a disservice to the condition that he suffers from by trying to broaden it in such a way but it is a totally understandable thing he is trying to do. The problem is he is taking his own narrow experience and extrapolating that out to fit everyone. We all do this, we all overrate our own experiences. As we get older and more mature, we usually have a better understanding of how narrow our worldview it. But no 19 year old, particularly one with his level of attention, will understand that. That's separate from his condition, that's just the reality of being his age and having his spotlight.
 
I will just speak for myself as to the issue so as to not do exactly what he's doing. My mental disorder, insomuch as it should be referred to in that manner, is in my reactions to the stress and anxiety. The feeling of stress and feeling of anxiety is perfectly normal. My outsized reactions to them, and fear of them and constant avoidance of experiences to stave off feelings before they occur without any knowledge that they actually will occur is the disorder.
 
I've obviously got a lot more to add to this kind of discussion, including a lot of positive thoughts on ACT therapy which I believe may be a non-medicinal path for many suffers of anxiety disorders and depression to cope and react in a more healthy way, but not sure how down the rabbit hole we want to go here.
 

gtg807y

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Is Houston not giving him clearance to play yet? Otherwise he's not helping himself out by saying stuff like this:
 
Somewhat surprisingly, White does not deny that he could play for Houston right now, if that were his decision. He could handle the travel, at least in the short-term. "I probably could do it," he says. "But what would the effect be? What would I have left at the end of the season? How good would I be for the team during the season?"
 
That makes him sound like everything has to be just so in order for him to play for the Rockets (i.e., do his job). And very few athletes or employees get to dictate to their employers how they'll be used in their position, such as to decide what's "best" for the team. Especially not teenage rookies who have yet to play a professional game. I say that as someone who sympathizes with his condition and understand how abnormal levels of anxiety can affect a person.
 
Really he sounds like a guy who has read a lot of different stuff and has a lot of thoughts in his mind, but he still doesn't really understand or know how to articulate them all that well. Like a 19 year old.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I thought that the Klosterman piece was terrific. I have no qualms with him inserting himself into the story (I normally don't like that) because I found that it was essential to the tale.
 
I will say that Steve Hyden has a lot of work to do. His series on Rock and Roll Winners is really hit or miss. The KISS and Bon Jovi ones were decent, the Zeppelin one was terrible and the Aerosmith one seemed to buckle under it's own weight. He spends a chunk of the story talking about Woodstock 99, very loosely tied Aerosmith to the introduction (they were supposed to be there, but cancelled) before giving a Wikipedia history on the band then tried to wrap things up at the end. The only problem is, he didn't have much to say and what's worse is he never really explained why their Rock and Roll Winners, especially since he compares them to Goodfella Henry Hill -- who was definitely not a winner.
 
I'm not sure what the point of this series is, Aerosmith was big in the 80s and early 90s, but no one ever considered them to the be the biggest band on the planet. There were a handful of bands more popular just in the rock genre: Guns N Rose, Metallica, Nirvana and Pearl Jam to name a few. Their "legacy" has been tarnished by crap like "Don't Want to Miss a Thing" and Steven Tyler made a fool of himself on national TV week after week after week on American Idol.
 
I can see where he was going with Bon Jovi and KISS, both were left for dead and found fame and resurgence in the decades since they were launched. Led Zeppelin is LED ZEPPELIN. But Aerosmith? Tell me why I should give a shit.
 

shlincoln

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John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
I'm not sure what the point of this series is, Aerosmith was big in the 80s and early 90s, but no one ever considered them to the be the biggest band on the planet. There were a handful of bands more popular just in the rock genre: Guns N Rose, Metallica, Nirvana and Pearl Jam to name a few.
Well, Metallica is the next band he's writing about. Plus Aerosmith has sold more than twice the number of records as Pearl Jam. Since this series seems to be about the rise and fall of the financial-successful giants of rock, not culturally significant ones, I think you have to include Aerosmith (150 million in worldwide album sales).

Edit: though I do agree that the whole series seems pretty formless, which is a shame.
 

Bergs

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That Aerosmith thing was definitely a train wreck. The Woodstock tie in made no sense, the Goodfellas thing made no sense...I just have no idea what the hell that was all about. Horrible.
 

Leather

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White's legal arguments are for shit, I'll say that. 
 
The ADA only requires employers to make reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities.  I'll even grant that he has a "disability" under the law, because he very well might (but that's not as simple as merely saying so), but what he's requesting goes way beyond "Reasonable".  
 
Klosterman describes him as akin to a "brilliant 9th grader", and that seems like the perfect simile to me.  It sounds like he simply wants things to be a certain way, and builds clever-sounding arguments under the assumption that he's right, but those arguments don't hold up under even moderate scrutiny.   
 
To wit:  his arguments about modern life being "dark":  people have been making those same arguments, probably literally, since the dawn of man.    I mean, he sounds like Holden Caufield ranting about the "Fuck You" being scratched into the wall at the museum, and wondering how long it would take to erase all the "Fuck You"s in the world.   It's not even an original idea.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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shlincoln said:
Well, Metallica is the next band he's writing about. Plus Aerosmith has sold more than twice the number of records as Pearl Jam. Since this series seems to be about the rise and fall of the financial-successful giants of rock, not culturally significant ones, I think you have to include Aerosmith (150 million in worldwide album sales).

Edit: though I do agree that the whole series seems pretty formless, which is a shame.
 
That's not true about Aerosmith selling more than twice the number of records as Pearl Jam.
 
According to Wikipedia here are the top selling albums for Aerosmith (in America):
 
Aerosmith 2M
Get Your Wings 3M
Toys in the Attic 8M
Rocks 4M
Draw the Line 2M
Night in the Ruts 1M
Rock in a Hard Place 500K
Done with Mirrors 500K
Permanant Vacation 5M
Pump 7M
Get a Grip 7M
Nine Lives 2M
Just Push Play 1M
Honkin on Bobo 500K
 
That's 14 records (didn't get the figures for the new one) for a total of 43.5 million sold.
 
According to Wikipedia Pearl Jam has sold (in America):
 
Ten 13M
Vs. 7M*
Vitalogy 5M**
No Code 1M
Yield 1.5M
Binaural 700K
Riot Act 500K
Pearl Jam 700K
Backspacer 500K
 
* fastest album to 1M (in a week)
** second fastest album to 1M
 
That's nine albums for a total of about 30M sold.
 
If we're looking career-wide than yes, Aerosmith has sold more albums than Pearl Jam but has done so with more product and in an era when people bought albums. In the early 90s, Pearl Jam completely destroys Aerosmith 25M to 16M. And remember, PJ stopped promoting their CDs after Ten. Aerosmith has never stopped.
 
And I don't think that this series is about the financial rise and fall of the bands. When did Led Zeppelin go through a fallow time? Bon Jovi was flat lining in the 90s, but even when things were bad for KISS (the 80s) they weren't dead. The fall of Aerosmith was because of drug use, not the fickleness fans.
 

Spelunker

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Record Sales are an interesting metric that is all over the place.  Billboard- and, from there, many secondary sources- lists Aerosmith at ~150 million sold, but that's going to include singles, etc.  The RIAA certifies them with 66.5 million albums (and Pearl Jam with 31.5), so the more than twice does actually seem to hold (and many more times over if you include all units, as Billboard does).
 
Edit: And, of course, the RIAA numbers are US only.  I believe BB estimates for the world, but I'm unsure on that.
 

shlincoln

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That's weird, the Aerosmith wiki page also says:
Aerosmith is the best-selling American rock band of all time, having sold more than 150 million albums worldwide,including 66.5 million albums in the United States alone.
I went with that number when doing the Pearl Jam comparison and didn't bother to total up the discography, maybe it includes things like the Armageddon soundtrack?

And I do think what he's trying to do with the whole series is to talk about how rock has fallen out of favor in pop music So Led Zeppelin, Kiss, Bon Jovi are rock's rise to the "apex" of pop culture awareness (yes, I know that's laughable) and Aerosmith and Metallica are the decline. Like I said, I don't think the execution is holding up at all, and it's just Steven Hyden rambles about rock bands.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Spelunker said:
Record Sales are an interesting metric that is all over the place.  Billboard- and, from there, many secondary sources- lists Aerosmith at ~150 million sold, but that's going to include singles, etc.  The RIAA certifies them with 66.5 million albums (and Pearl Jam with 31.5), so the more than twice does actually seem to hold (and many more times over if you include all units, as Billboard does).
 
Edit: And, of course, the RIAA numbers are US only.  I believe BB estimates for the world, but I'm unsure on that.
 
Where are they getting the extra 23M from? Box sets, Greatest Hits, reissues? I didn't use that stuff.
 

MoVaughndotORG

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John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
 
Where are they getting the extra 23M from? Box sets, Greatest Hits, reissues? I didn't use that stuff.
They must be. Wiki has Greatest Hits at 11 million and Big Ones at 4 million in the US.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I'm surprised "Greatest Hits" wasn't more. Pretty much everyone I knew had that, especially after "Permanant Vacation" and "Pump" came out.
 
"Why isn't Run DMC on this version of 'Walk This Way'?"
 

Spelunker

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ifmanis5 said:
I thought the Eagles were the highest selling American rock band of all time.
 
Depends on your definition of 'rock'  ;)
 
But yeah, RIAA has them at 100 million albums sold (their Greatest Hits 71-75 being the number two album ever, at 29 million copies).
 

CaptainLaddie

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where the darn libs live
Rembert Browne is my favorite writer on the site (non-Barnwell edition).  He writes in a way that reminds me of old Simmons, except that he actually knows hip-hop culture (something I love).  His twitter is a great follow as well (albeit one that is rather active).  I'm 31, but he definitely still speaks to me.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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A tale of two writers:
 
Carles: In the beginning he was given a lot of space and eyeballs. His stuff may work on his blog but it doesn't seem to here and he's been featured less.
 
Wright Thompson: He wrote a lot more in the beginning. His writing is exceptional. Wonder why he cut back.